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CNN NEWSROOM

Neighbor of OSU Attacker Speaks Out; Should Media Ignore Trump's Tweet Tirade?; Wildfire Rages in Tennessee; Accused Church Gunman Represents Himself at Trial; Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired November 29, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:30:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Next door to you, what went through your mind?

LOUANN CARNAHAN, LIVED NEXT DOOR TO OSU ATTACKER: Not that I wasn't already devastated that, you know, this kind of attack happened so close to home, but that it really happened really close to my home, let alone next door. It really blew me away.

COSTELLO: How well did you know the family living next door?

CARNAHAN: Quite well. I mean, we spoke every day. The individual seemed very pleasant. Always spoke when spoken to. I just -- I'm still beside myself that he was even capable of the acts that he did.

COSTELLO: So he just seemed like a normal kid, there were no changes in his behavior in recent days?

CARNAHAN: Right.

COSTELLO: Does that surprise you?

CARNAHAN: Yes, like I said, it took me back. I was just -- very surprised. I mean, I just never expected any kind of behavior like that from him.

COSTELLO: Well, now we know that he was writing on social media, on his Facebook page, that he was upset about how Muslims are treated here in the United States and overseas. But you never got any sense of that that was bothering him?

CARNAHAN: Absolutely not. Again he was very pleasant. He always spoke when -- you know, he helped my children get in and out of their cars with their children. Even on Thanksgiving Day, he spoke. I'm just very beside myself. And concerned. I mean, you know, I'm right next door.

COSTELLO: Right. And concerned because, you know, he seemed perfectly normal and you had no idea he was capable of such a thing and that has to be a little nerve-wracking, too.

CARNAHAN: Absolutely.

COSTELLO: All right, Karen Greenberg, thank you so much for joining me this morning and -- Carnahan, Luann Carnahan, thank you so much for joining me.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM --

CARNAHAN: Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

Cabinet picks while picking fights online? Thought the president- elect would break his campaign Twitter habit? Well, you were wrong.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:36:28] COSTELLO: The president-elect may be focusing on his top Cabinet picks but he's also finding time for Twitter feuds. Today, it's flag burners. Trump is pondering throwing them into jail, even stripping them of their U.S. citizenship even though the Supreme Court ruled that burning a flag is constitutional under the First Amendment. It's a case free speech.

Before that, it was the cast of "Hamilton." Mr. Trump thinks the actors were rude and out of line when they spoke to Mike Pence from the stage. And then there's "The New York Times." Mr. Trump called the paper not nice when he thought the terms of a meeting had changed.

Now some say these tweets don't matter and journalists shouldn't pay any attention to them but this morning a different take from "The Washington Post." This is the headline. "Why we can't and shouldn't ignore Donald Trump's tweets." The article argues that, "The presidency comes with the so-called bully pulpit. Everything a president says reverberates. It doesn't matter if he says it on Twitter or at a news conference."

So let's talk about that. I'm joined by CNN senior media reporter Dylan Byers, Democratic strategist and CNN political commentator Maria Cardona, and Anthony Scaramucci, he's a member of Donald Trump's transitional team and founder of SkyBridge Capital.

Welcome to all of you.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Anthony, I want to start with you because some people do wonder why Donald Trump finds the time to tweet when he's working on his transition team.

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FOUNDER, SKYBRIDGE CAPITAL: Well, listen, I mean, it's an unbelievably powerful medium. He's got 16 million Twitter followers. And he things that this is a way of going up over the top of the media, directly to the American people.

Most Americans don't like the flag burning, Carol. Now granted it is a First Amendment right. But years ago, calling fire in a movie theater was a First Amendment right and that got reversed. And I think he's basically saying --

COSTELLO: So, Anthony, you're telling me Mr. Trump is totally serious about stripping -- American citizens of their citizenship if they burn a flag?

SCARAMUCCI: I think he's upset about it and I think he's expressing what I think many of the people in his base are super upset about. You've got men and women all over the world that are dying for that flag. And the fact that the media is super upset about him being upset about flag burning in itself is sort of a mistake on both sides.

So what I would say to you very clearly is that Mr. Trump has a right to express himself and he has the right to go right to the base and explain to them and to have empathy for them. But what they see that they don't think is necessarily right.

COSTELLO: So, Dylan --

SCARAMUCCI: So I don't see what the problem is with that.

COSTELLO: OK. So, Dylan, and just listening to Anthony, I mean, that's the problem, right, you don't know who Mr. Trump's tweet is meant for, if he's serious about it. If we should ignore it and pay attention to something perhaps more important. What do you think?

DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR MEDIA AND POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, that's absolutely right. I'd first of all say I don't think what the media is necessarily preoccupied here with is a debate over flag burning above all other issues on the table. I think the question is, a threat to infringe upon First Amendment rights before the guy's even stepped foot in the Oval Office to begin his term. And I think those are serious and legitimate concerns.

As for Donald Trump's tweets, I mean, look, there is a very serious and robust debate taking place among journalists about how much do we cover these tweets, how much are these tweets meant to be a distraction from perhaps more pressing issues about Donald Trump, about various policy proposals or decisions he might make as commander-in-chief.

Look, what I would say is, you know, there are a lot of people in the media. The media's going 24 hours a day, seven days a week. There's room for both. I think you have to focus on what Donald Trump says. I think it would be a mistake not to.

[10:40:02] Just like we have to focus on everything President Obama says, even if he says it in an interview as opposed to through his Twitter account. But we can't let up on focusing on the issues that Donald Trump doesn't want to talk about. That is the role of the press. To make sure we prioritize the issues that are important.

COSTELLO: So --

BYERS: As we see them and as the American people see them.

COSTELLO: So, Maria, maybe Trump sends out these tweets just to make people like you really angry.

(LAUGHTER) CARDONA: Actually it makes people like me and others who didn't vote for Trump really worried and embarrassed in terms of what kind of president of the United States he's going to be. Let's be very clear. I actually think that this type of tweet is diabolically brilliant because I agree with Dylan, there are so many other issues that are incredibly more important for us to focus on. For example, the danger of his myriad conflicts of interests.

And I know that you and CNN has been focused on this. And I think we should all be focused on it. Because when he gets to the White House and he owes millions to China and millions to Germany and perhaps millions to Russia even, we don't know because we haven't seen his tax returns. We haven't seen what kind of business ventures he has. But essentially a lot of people are worried that when he gets to the White House, the White House could be for sale either to those who could make the most money off of Trump or to those from whom Trump can make the most money off of.

COSTELLO: OK, so let's look to Anthony. Let's talk to Anthony about that.

CARDONA: Sure.

COSTELLO: So has there been any talk among the transition team on those many conflicts of interests that President-elect Trump will have once he takes office?

SCARAMUCCI: Listen, he has stated that he's working on that. He recognizes that he has the law on his side where he can basically run the presidency and his business but he's also recognizing that he's going to sit down with his attorneys and his family and figure out a way to divide the two things and create a Chinese wall and make it very appropriate.

I think what people don't like about him is he's a dynamic thinker, he's an entrepreneur and his disruptive personality that the American people want to change government. 72 percent of the United States thinks that we're going in the wrong direction. And if you look at his mandate, 306 electoral votes, 2600 counties that he won. The most counties won since Ronald Reagan for a Republican president. I think that he's got the mandate. He's going to come to Washington and disrupt things. You guys want to focus on --

CARDONA: I'm sorry, Anthony --

SCARAMUCCI: You guys want to focus on the conflicts of interest and I get that.

CARDONA: No. There's no mandate there.

SCARAMUCCI: That's this week's topic.

CARDONA: There's no mandate there.

SCARAMUCCI: There certainly is.

CARDONA: Hillary -- no. He won the presidency --

SCARAMUCCI: There certainly is. The Republicans have trounced the Democrats --

CARDONA: He won the presidency fair and square --

SCARAMUCCI: It's the worst Democratic positions since 1920.

COSTELLO: Let Maria get a word in here.

SCARAMUCCI: Go ahead.

CARDONA: He won the presidency fair and square with the electoral college. There is no mandate when you lose the popular vote by more than 2.3 million votes. And by the way, I know --

SCARAMUCCI: It's not a popular vote election.

CARDONA: I know that is something that really raises the ire of the president-elect because that is another thing that he tweeted about and it's an outright lie. And when you have the president-elect tweeting outright lies, what kind of president of the United States are we going to have when he doesn't understand that his words can move markets, his words can start wars?

SCARAMUCCI: What the outright lie exactly? Maria, what's the outright lie?

CARDONA: The outright lie is that millions of people illegally voted for Hillary Clinton. That is an outright lie.

SCARAMUCCI: He's basing that commentary on Pew Research. There are many people --

COSTELLO: OK --

CARDONA: It's a lie, Anthony.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: So, Dylan, as people watch --

BYERS: Anthony, Anthony --

SCARAMUCCI: Dylan, I know you're upset about -- I know you're upset about the election.

CARDONA: It's a lie.

SCARAMUCCI: But let's have a civil discourse --

COSTELLO: Dylan -- it's Dylan's turn. Dylan.

SCARAMUCCI: It's very far from a lie.

BYERS: Anthony, Anthony, I'm not upset about anything. There's just one thing that we do and it's we call out facts and lies. There are two lies. One, there is absolutely no evidence that millions of voters voted illegally and that that would have given Donald Trump a popular vote victory. And as for the mandate, Donald Trump's margin of victory in the electoral vote as Nate Silver, the statistician, has pointed out, is the 44th largest margin of victory in the history of presidential elections which is not a landslide or not a trouncing --

SCARAMUCCI: Dylan --

CARDONA: That's right.

BYERS: -- by the Republicans --

(CROSSTALK)

SCARAMUCCI: Dylan, with all due --

CARDONA: Winning why 100,000 votes and the electoral votes is a --

SCARAMUCCI: -- to the both of you, the Democratic Party is in its worst position in state legislatures, in the governorships, in the House and Senate and the presidency. They're in their worst position since 1920.

CARDONA: Donald Trump won the electoral college --

SCARAMUCCI: So if you guys don't think that's a mandate, that's OK. Stay in your position --

CARDONA: It's not a mandate. It's not a mandate.

SCARAMUCCI: Stay in your position and you'll see real change --

CARDONA: When you have the --

SCARAMUCCI: You'll see the American people super happy about that.

CARDONA: Anthony, when you have the majority of the American people voted for somebody other than Donald Trump, it's not a mandate.

COSTELLO: All right. I got to end it here.

SCARAMUCCI: OK. But that wasn't the election, that wasn't the strategy of the election. It's electoral college vote.

COSTELLO: While Dylan and I ponder -- I have to end it there.

SCARAMUCCI: And we won this thing fair and square.

COSTELLO: I'm sorry, Anthony. Dylan and I have to ponder which tweets to listen to from Mr. Trump and which not to.

SCARAMUCCI: There's a new special -- there's a new special at Starbucks that will make you happy after segment.

[10:45:02] CARDONA: Thank you, Carol. SCARAMUCCI: OK. I'm sorry about that.

COSTELLO: All right. I got to end it there. Dylan Byers, Maria Cardona, Anthony Scaramucci, thank you so much.

Coming up in the NEWSROOM, more than a dozen wildfires in Tennessee are destroying resorts, threatening a theme park and an aquarium full of animals. Fish.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Terrifying wildfires fueled by 70-mile-per-hour winds and dry ground now scorching parts of Tennessee. Four people have been hurt. Hundreds of buildings are burned. The fires forcing drivers to make a desperate run to get away as the embers fly over their cars. Firefighters hoping for help from a line of thunderstorms moving over the region.

Jennifer Gray is there. Good morning.

JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Hi, Carol, good morning. Yes, we had rain overnight. We had some this morning. It has now stopped. But it wasn't soon enough. Those wildfires raged out of control last night. People had to just grab what they could. Many of them, just the clothes on their backs. Got in their cars and had to leave as fast as fast as they could. A lot of them came to this shelter behind me where about 1300 people have checked in.

[10:50:03] Now people are coming and going but there is still a steady stream of people in these doors. A lot people looking for neighbors. Looking for family members. Self-service is pretty much shot across this area. And so it's been hard for people to make communication.

We actually got an alert on our phones as we drove in early this morning saying if this is not an emergency, turn your cell phone off, because we need to help those people that are in need. We know that hundreds of first responders, firefighters, are now in this area from all over the surrounding areas, as well as the National Guard. Still unknown how many structures are burned. We know a lot of structures are possibly burned in the downtown area, the historic area of Gatlinburg. A hotel. Several hotels. The resorts have been burned. And so we're anxiously awaiting a press conference at 11:00 this morning Eastern Time to give us updates. So that will be happening at any moment.

But, Carol, this has been a horrible 24 hours for the people of this area.

COSTELLO: Oh, it so has. Jennifer Gray, reporting live Gatlinburg, Tennessee.

Coming up in the NEWSROOM, the accused shooter Dylann Roof was given the right to represent himself. So how could this affect his trial? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [10:55:31] COSTELLO: All right. We just got word in from the Trump transition team that Mr. Trump has named former labor secretary and wife of Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell Elaine Chao as secretary of Transportation. Mitch McConnell was briefed on the matter. That's what we know. We don't know too much more. But this is the fourth woman that Mr. Trump has named to his staff or to his Cabinet. Of course we'll keep you posted.

In other news this morning, the man accused of shooting up a prayer group and killing nine people at a predominantly black church in Charleston last year is now selecting his own jury. Dylann Roof has chosen to represent himself. The judge calling the decision, quote, "strategically unwise," but granting him the right anyway.

So let's talk about this. Joining me now is CNN legal analyst Laura Coates. Good morning.

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: So did the judge have to do this?

COATES: Well, it's his constitutional right to defend himself. Whether it's a good idea is a completely different question. I mean, I have the right to remove my own appendix. Is that a good idea? Absolutely not. And in a case where he's facing federal charges and the death penalty for the killing of nine members of the Emmanuel Church. It is going to be a very uphill battle for him legally to, one, have the wherewithal to know how to navigate the system, to know the evidentiary rules and to figure out how to mount a defense.

But really the uphill battle emotionally will also come from the families of the victims. Remember, he is now in a position, Carol, to be able to, you know, get testimony and interview the people who were survivors of this attack. Two women in particular who survived this bloody attack and he'll have the opportunity now to actually ask them questions in open court, and that is going to be a very, very emotional climate. And one that could very, very easily turn into a circus.

COSTELLO: Exactly. Because some of those family members have -- you know, remember when they forgave Dylann Roof for what he did to their loved ones?

COATES: Yes.

COSTELLO: And now he could bring that up when he's -- I don't know cross-examining them on the stand. That just seems --

COATES: It's odd.

COSTELLO: It's damaging for these poor families.

COATES: It's odd for them. But it also gives them an -- opportunity to be able to confront the person who's changed their lives and the community in that area of Charleston. So it's a very good opportunity in that sense. However, remember he is representing himself but he also has standby counsel who's there. And that standby counsel, while it's not his right to have them, the judge gave him that person nonetheless. And that defense attorney is a very, very well-regarded criminal defense attorney who is involved with the Boston bomber -- Boston marathon bomber defense and so you do have somebody who is seasoned. However --

COSTELLO: But here's -- here's the thing, you know, this is a man who allegedly wanted to start a race war. He wrote a manifesto. So isn't it possible that he wants to represent himself because he wants to -- he wants to, like, promote his manifesto through this court proceeding?

COATES: I think that is exactly what is going to happen, Carol. When I talk about the circus, you're talking about somebody who is probably going to transform an otherwise, you know, very high decorum opportunity and environment into a filibuster, a soap box opportunity to talk about all the reasons why he did what he did. And frankly, that's not what the trial is for. It's not an opportunity for him to simply have the podium and continue to say the same things he did in his manifesto and excuse himself.

What I think his goal is, is, in fact, just that. But it won't serve him well when it comes to a jury who is going to be assigned the role of figuring out, listen, I hear your manifesto, I'm not buying it. You're either guilty or you're not.

COSTELLO: But isn't it up to the judge to try to control that?

COATES: Yes. And the judge can actually say if the defendant, Mr. Roof, in fact tries to disrupt the proceedings and do just that, he can take away that opportunity to represent himself and return to the state of normalcy with an actual attorney who is well versed in the rules of the court. So it's not going to be a free for all for Dylann Roof, but right now we're all left kind of to wondering what was his motivation. And I suspect that it's not benign.

COSTELLO: Well, right now jury selection is under way. And he's questioning jurors. So of course we're going to keep an eye on it.

Laura Coates, thanks so much for joining me this morning.

COATES: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: And thank -- you're welcome. Thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. "AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND BOLDUAN" starts now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm John Berman. OK. I thought there was going to be an animation there. It said pause. But I'm not --

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