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CNN NEWSROOM

Concerns Over Trump's Global Business Ties; 9 Names Said to be on List for Secretary of State; Melania and Barron Trump Will Stay in NYC Temporarily

Aired November 22, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:30:00] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: ... "Only the crooked media makes this is a big deal."

So is it a big deal? Will it be a big deal? CNN's Senior Investigative Correspondent, Drew Griffin, looks at what could happen to Donald Trump's brand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: It started with what was billed as courtesy call, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe slipping in a back elevator at Trump Tower to meet the president- elect. Trump's daughter Ivanka in attendance. But neither reporters nor their cameras were at the meeting which reportedly included a gift to Trump of a golf club like this one, a gold Honma Beres driver worth nearly $4,000. Then came the two businessmen from India who currently own Trump-branded properties South of Mumbai. According to the Trump organization it was just another social call, and ...

KELLYANNE CONWAY, FRMR. TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: I'm very confident he's not breaking any laws.

GRIFFIN: But the meeting is raising questions, while it's not illegal for a sitting president to run a business, it's a question of optics and ethics. A CNN analysis shows Trump has business dealings in at least 25 countries including Saudi Arabia, China, Azerbaijan. A month ago there was worry that the Trump brand was being destroyed by his run from office, but since November 8th things have changed and presidential ethics experts are saying the only possible solution to end all of Trump's conflicts of interest are for Trump to sell it all, put the money in a blind trust and end the Trump empire.

RICHARD PAINTER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ETHICS LAWYER: Well, of course a blind trust can work, but you have to sell the assets. You can't just put the assets in a blind trust and pretend you don't own them.

GRIFFIN: Here's why that's probably not going to happen. A large part of his business is Donald Trump. Trump's partners across the globe are buying the right to license that brand. It brings them more rent money for office space, condos and hotel rooms. The brand also comes with the Trump organization expertise, in design, marketing, operations, almost like a franchise. Business partners buy in, because it sells, and the Trumps stay involved to make sure the brand doesn't get tarnished. Daniel Lebensohn, a South Florida developer took over a failing Trump property and fought to keep the Trump brand. Because he wanted to make sure he had access to Ivanka and Eric Trump in almost every part of the deal.

DANIEL LEBENSOHN, DEVELOPER/TRUMP PARTNER: We wanted the association. They want the continuity of brand and that works on both ends, it's profitable for everybody.

GRIFFIN: In a Fox News debate earlier this year, Donald Trump said instead of selling off the brand his solution is to pass the brand to the people he has groomed to take it over. All named Trump. Not exactly a blind trust.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: I have Ivanka and Eric and Don sitting there, run the company kids. Have a good time. I'm going to do it for America. OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: Brianna, back in January before a single primary, Donald Trump's attorney Alan Garten told me that the organization was already making some sort of contingency plans should Donald Trump win. He wouldn't give me any details then and he's not calling me back now. I think we're just going to have to wait and see what kind of business the Trump organization is during this presidency, and perhaps more importantly, who is going to run it. Brianna?

KEILAR: Thanks so much Drew. And here's a live look at the "New York Times" lobby, this is where we could see President-elect Trump arrive at any moment for a meeting there with reporters and editors. And as we watch that we'll keep an eye there, bring that to you live when he shows up.

I do want to bring in my panel though. We have CNN Political Commentator Alice Stewart, a Republican strategist and Former Communications Director for Ted Cruz, and CNN Political Commentator Maria Cardona, a Democratic strategist and Hillary Clinton Supporter. All right, to you Alice, I mean this is a real issue. What should Donald Trump do?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, clearly it's no mystery to anyone, he has a global empire with business interest all across the world, in many continents and countries, and steps are under way now through the Trump organization to make sure that there is a clear tie. Look, he has made it quite clear he is going to take the necessary steps. His children will run the business empire of the Trump organization.

And look, we've got 65 days. That's the key, that's the part of this transition. It's not just to build a presidential campaign but transition from such a global business leader to putting that in the hands of his children and allowing them to do that. I have no doubt whatsoever the steps are being made. It's not something they're going to talk about and roll out every single day but the proper steps are being made to make sure that all business ties are separated. KEILAR: What do you think?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Here's the problem with that, it's true this time is for a transition, but the transition should be to start letting the American people know and reassure the American people that his massive business empires oversees, across the globe are not going to be a conflict of interest. And what he has done, Alice, is completely the opposite. Yes, we knew from the very beginning he was going to turn over his business interesting to his children.

[12:35:03] But guess what? His daughter has been in meetings with Prime Ministers, with presidents, and with business people from across the world. How does that give us reassurance that this is a man who is not going to sell the United States out to banks where he owes money, to business ventures that are going to make him millions across the globe, especially because there is no firewall with his children? If he's going to put that firewall in he should start doing it now.

KEILAR: But I wonder, as we talk about this and just this election in general, because you had in this election two candidates who were going to have issues. Now I'm not going to liken exactly the Clinton foundation to the Trump organization ...

STEWART: Thank you.

KEILAR: It is obviously a charitable organization. But at the same time, it's also a platform and has been a platform for the Clintons. So, there was a gray area there. What was going to happen with that? Isn't it just -- whether or not you had either candidate? There were going to be these issues? Haven't they -- even Hillary Clinton, didn't she -- without putting in the firewall that she'd promised she would sort of normalize this idea of what's acceptable?

CARDONA: You can't compare one with the other. First of all, because Hillary Clinton did not make a personal dime from what was the work of the Clinton Foundation, a charitable organization that saved lives around the world. The Trump organization ...

KEILAR: There was an appearance. There was an appearance. I don't mean to litigate the past on that.

CARDONA: No, no. But here's the issue with that Brianna. Can you imagine if Hillary Clinton had won and if Chelsea Clinton was with her at every single meeting that she was having as they were putting the transition in place? Oh, my god, there would be hearings, there would be Fox News Specials, there would be an independent prosecutor. It's ridiculous the kind of hypocrisy that is happening, and the kind of blind eye that Republicans are now looking at this in terms ...

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Donald Trump had a meeting as president-elect with Nigel Farage, British kind of -- Mr. Brexit guy. And he encouraged him -- and this is according to the "New York Times" and his entourage, to oppose the kind of offshore wind farms that Mr. Trump believes will mar the pristine view from one of his two Scottish golf courses according to one person present. How is that appropriate? How is that ethical for a president-elect?

STEWART: There are certain things that as we move to this transition process where he will have to start severing presidential talks with the business talks, and many of the conversations that have been reported on didn't happen the way they've been reported, but to be fair, he's got a transition period to phase out of the business aspect and move into the presidential. And referring to the Clinton Foundation, look, there is -- there are two separate causes here. One is a charitable foundation and one being business foundations but we have evidence with the Clinton Foundation of the pay to play aspects of people making donations.

CARDONA: There is no evidence of that, Alice.

STEWART: Yes, there were ...

CARDONA: And in fact, what we have is an actual violation from the IRS on the Trump foundation. So that is actual breaking of the law, whereas the other thing (ph) has been complete and total innuendo.

KEILAR: I want to talk about that, because the IRS, this is what happened. According to the "Washington Post", they've been paying attention to some of the -- this information put out there. A new filing to the IRS, it shows that the Trump Foundation apparently admitted it violated a legal prohibition against self-dealing, which is when nonprofit leaders take money from their charities and then they use it to enrich themselves. We don't know exactly what this pertains to but one of the things that was reported was that Donald Trump used $20,000 from the foundation to purchase a very large portrait of himself.

CARDONA: Right.

KEILAR: So that is sort of in the vein of what we're talking about. What does that say to you when you see this new filing?

STEWART: Well, when you look at it, just from -- the news first came out about how those funds were being used, no one can deny it doesn't look appropriate for charitable funds to be used for that, purchase of a portrait. No one can deny that. In terms of the other findings that have comes out today, the very beginning of this investigation. I think it's good that they're coming out and putting it out on the table at this point, but it's the beginning of the investigation, it would be interesting to see how this unfolds.

CARDONA: He just needs to do so much more to reassure the American people, and he needs to understand, the Republicans need to understand that there is absolutely no mandate here. He's got to do a lot more to bring people together. Hillary Clinton is about to cross the threshold of a 2 million popular vote lead. He needs to understand that if he really wants to be the president for everybody and not just the supporters who brought him to office he need to start making these gestures now.

STEWART: And he has to make clear with these steps, he's sort of focus on the people's business not his personal finances.

KEILAR: Alice, Maria, thank you so much and I will mention that 39 percent of Americans believe he is not -- only 39 say he's doing enough to prevent conflicts of interest. So we'll see if that matters, you know?

[12:40:00] President-elect Donald Trump is bringing an outsiders perspective on foreign policy to the oval office and the people on his short list to fill those jobs, they are all over the map in terms of their world views. My next guess at, is that a good thing or a bad thing or both?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: We have a live look for you at the "New York Times" lobby where we could see President-elect Donald Trump arrive at any moment for a meeting there. He's going to be meeting with reporters and editors. Part of it a private meeting, part of it on the record and reported out, we're going to show you once we see him walk through our camera frame.

Meanwhile, the President-elect is said to be considering nine different people for secretary of state. Here is a rather large display of them on your screen. And a lot of the names you're going to recognize.

[12:45:03] Rudy Giuliani, your former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton, Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, someone who he was at odds with during the campaign. It's an unconventional mix to be sure. Some of them couldn't be more different on where they stand on certain issues. Jerry Seib, Washington Bureau Chief for the "Wall Street Journal" joining me to discuss that. So you -- lay this out in your piece a lot of pluses and a lot of minuses. Give them to us.

JERRY SEIB, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Well you know, the -- one of the criticisms of Donald Trump during the campaign was he didn't have a very well articulated world view. Things he feel strongly about, obviously building a wall, obviously renegotiating trade agreements, questioning alliances but not having real plan. The upside of that at this point thought is he doesn't really have a fixed set of policies that somebody is going to buy into if they want to work for him. So, as result he can consider a Mitt Romney who a couple of years ago called Russia, the number one geopolitical foe of the U.S. and have as his national security adviser Gen. Michael Flynn who says, we should work with Russia particularly in Syria, particularly to fight ISIS.

KEILAR: What is -- but the downside of that, and you laid this out, is that when you have a lot of cooks in the kitchen and some of them are making French food and some of them are making Mexican food, what are they -- you know, does it end up being this mishmash of something that isn't cohesive?

SEIB: Well, I think there are two downsides. One is that right now, the fact that there's not an absolutely hard and fast world view has created a lot of uncertainty abroad. Allies aren't sure what to think. Adversaries aren't quite sure what to think. That could be a good or bad thing but it also creates the possibility of a lot in- fighting once everybody is around the table and they have to decide what do we think about dealing with Russia?

KEILAR: People could be very -- it could be divisive there. You talked about Vladimir Putin, and this may be the ultimate test in foreign policy because Donald Trump has surrounded himself with people who are open to improving Russia -- improving relations, relations with Russia but there's a cautionary tale.

SEIB: Well there is. You know, I've been thinking in the last few days that I've kind of seen this movie before. You know, George W. Bush came in, he said I saw into the soul of Vladimir Putin. He's a guy I can work with and then all of a sudden he starts to take over pieces of the Russian economy and he creates a lot of problems in Georgia. The Obama administration came in saying let's reset relations with Russia. Thought they could work around Vladimir Putin and work with then President Medvedev. That lasted for a while but in the end we have Crimea occupied by the Russians and a lot of intimidation in Ukraine and a big problem in Syria. So, you know, there is a tendency in not just Donald Trump's part but in part a lot of Americans to think we can work with Vladimir Putin, let's give it a try. It just hasn't worked out all that well.

KEILAR: Yeah, it's a great historical look. Look at that, lot of pluses, lot of minuses, lot of unknowns as you lay out in your really good piece. Jerry, thank you so much.

SEIB: Thanks.

KEILAR: And when the President-elect moves to the White House in just 59 days, it turns out that his wife, the soon to be first lady, Melania Trump and his son Barron Trump won't be with him. Next, I'm talking to the former chief of staff for first lady Laura Bush about how different the White House will be without the full first family.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:52:04] MELANIA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S WIFE: But there is a lot of responsibilities, and it's a lot of work needs to be done. And it's a -- you have stuff on your shoulders and we will take care of it, day by day. I will stay true myself. I'm very strong, and tough, and confident, and I listen to myself and I will do what is right and what feels to my heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Now since that "60 Minutes" interview a week and change ago we have learned that the soon to be first lady, Melania Trump and her son -- Donald Trump, the President-elect son Barron Trump won't be coming at least immediately to the White House. They're going to be staying certainly through the school year in New York. And I want to bring in now Anita McBride. She's a former chief of staff to first lady Laura Bush. She's also an Executive-in-Residence at the Center for Congressional and Presidential Studies at American University.

No modern first lady has done this right, Anita?

ANITA MCBRIDE, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO FIRST LADY LAURA BUSH: No that's true but, you know, like everything else in this campaign, the play book gets rewritten continuously. And they're starting a new chapter in White House history. And the one thing we do know about this job, every single person that comes into it as first lady makes it their own, and that's how she's starting out.

KEILAR: Now, we know that at least through the school year they are going to stay. I think a lot of parents look at that and they say, that would be what's best for their child. So they connect with it.

MCBRIDE: Sure.

KEILAR: But if for some reason -- I mean, you expect Melania Trump will then move to the White House. But even in that time which is a beginning of a very pivotal moment for Donald Trump. Not having his partner there, that must be rough.

MCBRIDE: Well, I think there is something about having your family around you when you are taking on the loneliest job in the world and arguably the hardest job in the world, to have your family around really matters. Now this is a big family so presumably other members of the family are, of course, going to be there with him and to help him and also to help Mrs. Trump perhaps do some of these duties.

The thing is, the infrastructure around you at the White House and the resident staff that's there that caters to every single president is still going to be there. And there's a lot of work that can get done and even in this 21st century technological age, the staff can reach -- east wing staff can reach her if they need decisions made by her.

KEILAR: So, what does it look like if even with Melania Trump and Barron Trump moving to Washington. What does that look like when you know Donald Trump clearly has an appetite to be in Florida at Mar-a- Lago, to be in New York City, there so many different security concerns there, what does that compare to with other presidents?

MCBRIDE: Well, I'd say the Secret Service certainly going to have their hands full, making sure that each of these properties that we know he will frequent are protected and that's the post-9/11 world that we live in too. And we've not really had, you know, someone like this. It had so many properties that need to be protected. But, you know, President George W. Bush had his ranch in Texas, he also went up to Kennebunkport in the summer, that's where the former President Bush 41 lives so there -- you know, there's always Secret Service there too.

[12:55:09] You know, this is, you know, something that they will have to really work with, and very hard I'm sure for the family to recognize that now their life is upended forever.

KEIALR: Completely forever as you put it. They will be adjusting to that here in the coming weeks. Anita McBride, thank you so much for your insight, it's very invaluable. And thank you so much for watching "Newsroom." "Wolf" starts after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)