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CNN NEWSROOM

Romney, Trump Wrap Up Meeting; "Hamilton" Actor Challenges Pence from Stage; Should Americans Worry about Putin, Trump Relationship?; Trump A.G. Pick Facing Scrutiny; Trump's National Security Advisor: Islam Is a Cancer; Could Trump's CIA Director Help Bring Back Waterboarding?; Trump to Shape Future U.S. Supreme Court. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired November 19, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:08] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everyone, live in the CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Poppy Harlow, in New York. It is 3:00 p.m. eastern.

Today's high-anticipated meeting between President-elect Trump and one of his fiercest critics, Mitt Romney, has just wrapped up. The two appearing moments ago at Trump's golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey. Their meeting was Trump's first of the day. We're told one topic that may have been up for discussion, the job of secretary of state.

Our Phil Mattingly is live in Bedminster where the meeting just wrapped up.

Look, there's been no love lost between the two of these. Donald Trump has called Mitt Romney a choke artist. Mitt Romney has said that Donald Trump is a phony and a fraud. But the two men met today. What did they say?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right. We're a long way from that, apparently. What we saw is what you pointed out. Foreign policy is a crucial component of what Mitt Romney wants to talk about, and it is exactly what they spoke about. What does that mean for perhaps a future cabinet position? That is untold. As they walked out together after an hour and 20-minute meeting, Donald Trump cupped his hands in front of his face, said it went great. Mitt Romney said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY, (R), FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR & FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We had a -- a far-reaching conversation with regards to the various theaters in the world where there are interests of the United States of real significance. We discussed those areas and exchanged our views on those topics. Very thorough and in-depth discussion in the time we had. And appreciate the chance to speak with the president-elect. And look forward to the coming administration and the things we'll be doing.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Governor?

(CROSSTALK)

ROMNEY: How are you doing?

Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: As you see, Mitt Romney did not answer any of the shouted questions. He turned and walked to his car and left. We weren't able to follow up on that.

But as you note, all the conversation appeared to be about foreign policy.

HARLOW: Right.

MATTINGLY: Now, Mitt Romney has plenty of experience on the economic side of things. That was the big core of his 2012 campaign. But the focus on foreign policy only adding to the speculation about whether this meeting might lead to a future position. I'm told from Trump transition officials that is a possibility, that is certainly something they wanted to discuss.

But the big question is, is that something Donald Trump wants to settle on, and perhaps, more importantly, is that a position Mitt Romney would want?

HARLOW: Right. Aside from the personal barbs back and forth, they've got real policy differences. On free trade, they're on totally opposite ends of the spectrum. And the same thing on Russia, they're on totally opposite ends of the spectrum, a huge issue now.

But we were told, Phil, that the transition team says, yep, there may be another major appointment announced today. Any idea what that position might be?

MATTINGLY: Right now, we know there's a possibility of another appointment, and likely inside the track of national security. Kind of lining up with what we saw yesterday. Obviously, naming the attorney general, the national security adviser, naming the prospective CIA director yesterday a big component of a big national security push by the Trump team. There's a possibility another name would be added to that, as well. Poppy, we don't know what it might be yet. Expect it to be on the lines of national security, perhaps on the intelligence side of things -- Poppy?

HARLOW: Phil Mattingly, bring us more as you have it. Thank you very much.

Let's bring in CNN political commentator and former Mitt Romney public policy director, Lanhee Chen. Also with us, former Georgia congressman and former senior adviser to the Trump campaign, Jack Kingston.

Thank you, gentlemen, for being here.

(CROSSTALK)

And, Lanhee, let me just begin with you.

As you know, these two men have said not the nicest things about one another. Let's take a walk down memory lane.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mitt was a disaster as a candidate.

ROMNEY: He's playing the members of the American public for suckers.

TRUMP: Romney let us win. He was a very poor campaigner.

ROMNEY: He gets a free ride to the White House and all we get is a lousy hat.

TRUMP: Romney choked like a dog. He choked. He went --

(LAUGHTER)

ROMNEY: His promises are as worthless as a degree from Trump University.

TRUMP: I have a lot of friends. No, I have a lot of friends. By the way, Mitt Romney is not one of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Maybe that changes after today.

Lanhee, you wrote in Mitt Romney in this selection.

LANHEE: I did. I did, yeah.

HARLOW: You really wanted to see him as president four years ago and wanted to see him this year again. What do you make of all of this? Can the two come together on the personal stuff and the policy stuff? Mainly Russia, as Mitt Romney calmed the greatest -

LANHEE: Geopolitical.

HARLOW: -- geopolitical threat to the world back in 2012.

LANHEE CHEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that, at core, people have to understand Mitt Romney is a patriot. It's not just talk. This is a guy who cares and loves -- cares for and loves his country deeply. So immediately after the election, you saw him reaching out by saying, you know, look, I congratulate the president-elect. They had a very nice phone call where, by all accounts, the president-elect was gracious. I think that this is about sharing views with someone who's going to be leader of the free world. Governor Romney cares about what's going to happen to the president-elect's administration. He cares what's going to happen to the country.

(CROSSTALK)

[15:0519:] HARLOW: Just one second. Let me jump in and tell people. They're looking at Donald Trump, live pictures, walking back into the golf course. The woman who just left was Michelle Rhee. Obviously, potentially, being considered for an education post. Who knows what they said. Doesn't look like she made any comments. We'll bring them if she does.

But continue what you were saying, Lanhee.

CHEN: No I think the basic point is this is part of a process of helping the president-elect govern well, as the governor said when he made the remarks. They talked about a whole bunch of stuff around the world. That's part of the process of helping the president-elect understands the challenges we face.

HARLOW: To you, Congressman, campaigning is much different than governing. You can get along with someone when you're governing even if you didn't get along with them on the campaign. What we know from the president-elect is that loyalty is huge for him. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: There's never been the loyalty that we have.

I have the most loyal people.

This guy is so loyal.

And been very, very loyal.

He's been loyal to Trump from day one.

She's so loyal and so amazing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Mitt Romney has not been loyal. Do you read this meeting as optics, or do you think that Mitt Romney is seriously being considered for secretary of state?

JACK KINGSTON, (R), FORMER CONGRESSMAN & FORMER TRUMP PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISOR: I don't think it's optics. Mitt Romney has a serious grip on the world. He's been around the block economically, politically. I think about George Bush calling Ronald Reagan's plan voodoo economics. Certainly, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama when they were opposing each other in the primary exchanged sharp elbows. That sort of, I think, this does happen. And you can get past that.

At the same time, I think Romney is the kind of guy that, if they make their peace -- and I believe they potentially already have -- but I think he would be an absolute loyal soldier, but more importantly, they both love America and want to do what's right.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Congressman, on your point of being a local soldier, you can get past personal things.

I want our viewers to listen to what he said about Russia and Vladimir Putin over the course of the campaign. It's so different from calling them our number-one geopolitical foe. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Do you ever notice anything that goes wrong, they blame Russia. Russia did it. They have no idea. We're being hacked because we have people who don't know what they're doing. But they say Putin likes Trump. And he said nice things about me. He called me a genius. He said we're going to win. That's good. That's not bad. That's good. Some of my opponents said they want us to disavow the statement. Why would I disavow. Why? But if we could get along with Russia, wouldn't that be a good thing instead of a bad thing?

I have nothing to do with Putin. I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about him other than he will respect me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Congressman, to your point, can Mitt Romney be a, quote, unquote, "good soldier" and follow that ideology when it comes to Putin and the kremlin if he has a vastly different view of Russia?

KINGSTON: I think, number one, Mitt Romney does not need the job. He would want to do the job because of the best interests of America. In that respect, I think the two would understand that, Mitt, are you working for me, for my policy. Are you comfortable with it? Mitt Romney's the kind of guy who's going to say, no, I'm not and I can't do this.

But I also want to say this. Mr. Trump --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Is that you saying is you don't think Romney will take the post?

KINGSTON: No. That's 100 percent me. But I'm saying he would not take the post if the two had a major policy division, if they couldn't get together.

I want to say this. remember, Trump said one of the problems he felt that we had the Middle East is we always broadcasted to the enemy in advance what we were going to do next. Bringing in somebody like Mitt Romney could throw some of our enemies off a little bit because it could be a mixed signal. And I think sometimes in foreign policy that's not a bad idea.

HARLOW: What do you make of that, Lanhee? Can -- you know better than anyone how Mitt Romney feels about Russia. How he feels about free trade. Look, you've got the meeting today with President Obama and President Xi of China. China is critical. Mitt Romney feels different about free trade in China and the World Trade Organization than Trump does. Can they get on the same page?

CHEN: I think we have to step back and talk about Russia first. I think it is clear the rhetoric Trump used on the campaign trail reflects a different view of the world. That's true. The question is, is the policy going to be dramatically different. I think the one area where there is some concern and conflict is over the notion of cooperating with Syria, cooperating and dealing with the Syrian crisis.

HARLOW: Yeah.

CHEN: I think clearly that is the one policy pronouncement I would be concerned about.

A lot of the other stuff seems to be about tone and bluster and about his relationship with Putin, whatever that might be. So, we have to really us suss out what the genuine policy differences there.

On trade, I will say, if you recall four years ago, Governor Romney was aggressive in terms of his stance on how we deal with China on the global trade stage.

[15:10:27] He wasn't talking about flat 45 percent tariffs --

(CROSSTALK)

CHEN: He was not talking about tariffs, he was not talking about no TPP, that's true. But I guess it's just important for us to really figure out, as we go through the transition process, what is the policy of the Trump administration going to be? And then we can have this discussion once we figure out exactly what it is they're going to be fighting for, once the president-elect takes office. I think that's important to figure out.

KINGSTON: And another thing that's important, it's important for their cabinet members to stay in their own lane. The secretary of state would follow the lead of the USTR, the U.S. Trade Rep when it comes to trade policy. And one of the things that I know can be a problem, you don't want the secretary of HUD to start dictating to the secretary of agriculture what he or she should be doing. So, I would say Mitt Romney would be fine with some of the policies that are limited to the State Department. Although that's vast, it's the whole globe. Again, he's the kind of guy who's going to sign on if he believes it's a good working relationship. I think that's what makes Mitt Romney a quality prospects for this position.

HARLOW: We'll see. And as we know, Donald Trump is having nonstop meetings this weekend about a lot of these petitions positions. We may get an announcement on the national security threat today.

Thank you very much. Lanhee Chen, Jack Kingston, we appreciate it.

KINGSTON: Thanks, Poppy. HARLOW: Coming up, Donald Trump says the cast of the hit show, quote, "Hamilton," "harassed his vice presidential pick." The direct appeal the actors made last night to Mike Pence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRANDON VICTOR DIXON, ACTOR: We have a guest.

(LAUGHTER)

Vice president-elect Pence, I see you walking out. But I hope you'll hear just a few more minutes.

(INAUDIBLE), ladies and gentlemen. (INAUDIBLE). We hope you will hear us out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:15:33] HARLOW: As President-elect Donald Trump works to fill his cabinet with meetings all day in New Jersey, his running mate took the night off in New York to catch the hit Broadway musical, "Hamilton." Vice president-elect Pence got a mixed response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CHEERING)

(BOOING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Later, during the curtain call, one of the stars made a plea to Pence. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIXON: Vice President-elect Pence, we welcome you and we truly thank you for joining us here at "Hamilton, An America Musical." We really do. We, sir, are the diverse America who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet --

(CHEERING)

DIXON: -- our children, our parents, or defend us, and uphold our inalienable rights. We truly hope this show has inspired you to uphold our American values, and work on behalf of all of us.

(CHEERING)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIXON: -- this wonderful American story told by a diverse group of men, women, of different colors, creds and origins.

(CHEERING)

DIXON: -- to represent all of us.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Rachel Crane joins us.

You've been following this all day, obviously, talking to representatives from "Hamilton." First, to the president-elect. Donald Trump responding this morning on twitter. What's he saying?

RACHEL CRANE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Of course, you know, President-elect Trump has a busy schedule now trying to select his cabinet, but still managed to find time tweet about last night's incident saying -- actually calling it harassment, saying, "Our wonderful future V.P. Mike Pence was harassed last night at the theater by the cast of "Hamilton, cameras blazing. This should not happen." He sent a follow-up tweet saying, "The theater must always be a safe and special place. The cast was rude to a very good man, Mike Pence. Apologize."

Now Brandon Dixon, the star of "Hamilton," who also was the one delivering the message replied to Donald Trump's tweet saying, "Conversation is not harassment, sir. And I appreciate Mike Pence for listening."

We have been able to confirm with a spokesperson for the musical that Mike Pence did, indeed, stop and hear the entirety of the message as he was leaving the theater. And that spokesperson also pointed out that he did not think this was harassment. He was unclear of what Donald Trump's definition of harassment was. He also pointed out that they thanked Mike Pence for coming to the show. Their message delivered in a polite manner. The tone was respectful and polite. And a lot of chatter about this message on social media. Over a million people talking about it on Twitter.

HARLOW: What are they saying? What are some of the responses? I'm sure they span the gamut.

CRANE: Yes. Lynn Manuel Miranda, the writer and the former star of "Hamilton," tweeting, "Proud of "Hamilton" musical, proud of Brandon Dixon for leading with love, and proud to remind you that all are welcome at the theater."

Also, the mayor of New York office tweeting about this, showing support for the cast of "Hamilton," the ACLU.

But on the other side of things, Newt Gingrich tweeting, "The arrogance and hostility of the "Hamilton" cast to the vice president- elect, a guest at the theater, is a reminder that the left still fights."

Just one of millions of tweets about the subject. And several hash tags actually trending on Twitter right now, #boycotthamilton as well as #Pencemusical. The irony is that "Hamilton" is sold out. By boycotting it, it's only going to maybe drop the prices.

HARLOW: Interesting. That is reflecting history. This is the current race coming into this at the end. Not something anyone expected to see that was going to see "Hamilton."

CDRANE: Right.

[15:19:45] HARLOW: Thank you for the reporting, Rachel. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, Trump's pick for attorney general facing scrutiny over his past. We'll take a closer look at Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions and why a Senate committee once refused to confirm him as a federal judge.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: President-elect Trump holding back-to-back meetings in Bedminster, New Jersey, trying to fill many, many cabinet positions. Mitt Romney emerged moments ago, along with Michelle Rhee, a possible pick for secretary of education. Much more on that as it comes in.

Meantime, Donald trump's pick to run the Justice Department has had problems with Senate confirmations before. In 1986, then-Alabama attorney general, Jeff Sessions, could not get the blessing of the Senate Judiciary Committee to become a federal judge. Why? Because of allegations that he had made racist comments.

Our justice correspondent, Pamela Brown, has more on the Senator's background.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. JEFF SESSIONS, TRUMP ATTORNEY GENERAL APPOINTEE: Here we go.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORERSPONDENT (voice-over): Jeff Sessions has been Alabama's Senator for 20 years, and before that, Alabama's attorney general --

SESSIONS: Rule of law is an important thing.

Reporter: -- and U.S. attorney --

SESSIONS: Witness has not answered your question.

BROWN: He is currently a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, the same committee that denied him a federal judgeship in 1986 over allegations he made racial remarks, calling the NAACP un-American and Communist inspired. One African-American U.S. attorney who worked under Sessions testified that Sessions called him, quote, "Boy," and joked about the KKK, saying he was OK with them until he learned that they smoked marijuana.

Sessions denied the allegations and says he's never been a racist. [15:25:11] SESSIONS: I am not a racist. I am not insensitive to

blacks. I've supported civil rights activity in my state.

BROWN: In the Senate, Sessions earned the reputation as a staunch conservative and garnered respect from his colleagues on both sides of the aisle.

(CHEERING)

BROWN: If confirmed, he will be taking the reins as the chief law enforcement officer in the country at a time when the relationship between law enforcement and communities of color is front and center.

TODD A COX, NAACP LEGAL DEENSE & EDUCATIONAL FUND, INC: Everyone needs to be held to account. Just because you are a sitting Senator going before those who are your brothers and sisters in the same body, doesn't mean you're entitled to just walk into a position that is the - frankly, one of the most powerful positions in this country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Pamela Brown reporting. Thank you for that.

Let's talk more about this with my panel. CNN's Supreme Court justice reporter, Ariane de Vogue, is with us. And former senior Trump adviser, and former Georgia congressman, Jack Kingston is back.

Ariane, let me begin with you.

We saw the background there and the controversy over these alleged racist remarks. If he is confirmed, talk about the biggest way that he could reshape the Justice Department as we know it.

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: He is going to reshape the Justice Department. You know, elections matter. If you think back to it, under the Obama administration, Attorney General Lynch and Holder, they really focused on issues like gay marriage, voting rights, consumer and environmental protections. That building has a limited number of resources, and he, if he makes it, he'll shift those resources. He cares a lot about immigration reform. You heard that on the campaign trail. And another way he might do it, he really cares about drug enforcement. He might look almost at marijuana, it's illegal under federal law. But some states have allowed it. The Obama administration took a hands-off approach there. He may not. He may look more closely at that. And that's what so many of these civil rights groups are concerned about, that he would un-do what they've seen as progress under the Obama administration.

HARLOW: He will have sweeping powers. And to the allegations that Pamela covered in her piece about alleged racist remarks, you also have the other side of it where, you know, a number of his supporters and Trump supporters say, look, they say the mainstream media is not talking about things like the fact that he voted to confirm attorney general holder, that he voted to extend the Civil Rights Act 30 more years. That he was the one who brought forth the Fair Sentencing Act in 2010, fighting those mandatory minimum sentences. Given both sides of the coin, how likely is it that the allegations of

racism are going to hurt him in confirmation.

KINGSTON: I just don't think they're going to hurt him. First of all, you know, during that period of time 30 years ago when he was a U.S. Attorney, he also led the fight to indict and try Henry Hayes, Henry Francis Hayes, the Klan member in Alabama who murdered Michael McDonnell. Led that. Then as a U.S. -- as the attorney general of Alabama, sought the death penalty. His detractor 30 years ago, a guy named Thomas Figure (ph), was later convicted of bribing a witness. I think so much of that was a long time ago that the facts aren't there. He also --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Let me jump in, Congressman, and push back with this. Because those facts stood at the time that -- that the Senate Judiciary Committee did not confirm him as a federal judge. The first time they'd done that, sir, in 48 years, and included two Republicans siding with Democrats against that.

KINGSTON: But remember, one of those Republicans are -- the inspector denounced the vote, said it was a mistake. And Thomas Figure (ph) had not been convicted of bribery at the time. That was many years later. I only say that because the witness had a lot of allegations. Most of them were hearsay. There weren't other people who -- who saw this.

But you know, one of the things you hadn't mentioned also that, as a Senator, he also championed the cause of Rosa Parks getting the Congressional Medal of Honor and got a million dollars for the Rosa Parks Museum.

A lot of water has gone under the bridge since 1986. And I think people around Alabama and the United States of America have gotten to know Jeff Sessions as a guy who's very honorable, who does his homework, who served on the Judiciary Committee and has been evenhanded.

One of the things, as you pointed out, he voted to support the nomination of Eric Holder. But he also is known for being fair to nominees in general. Hasn't gone through that unpleasant experience himself. He has been sympathetic and polite to everybody who comes before him.

HARLOW: Ariane --

KINGSTON: I think he's going to get some points for that.

[15:30:00] HARLOW: Ariane, let me ask you this. You wrote extensively about how he could shape the Justice Department this week. One thing you point out is the incredible deference he will give to states.

DE VOGUE: Yeah, because look where he comes from, right? He understands that. He served there as an A.G. And very often the conservatives feel like the states should be heard, going back to their constitutional principles.

What's interesting about him is he is conservative. He is not a moderate bridge builder that Trump has put up there. He's very conservative, and he cares about these principles.

HARLOW: He is also, Congressman, loyal. He was the first sitting U.S. Senator to come out and support Donald Trump. We kw that Donald Trump loyalty.

KINGSTON: Well, he came out way early, and he did put a lot of his own political goodwill at risk doing it. I don't think Donald ump will appoint anybody bed on loyalty. He's going to look at talent and ask them to answer tough questions and get the job done. I want to say about his conservative nature, keep in mind, Loretta Lynch and Eric Holder were liberals. He wants to choose his team to implement his vision that he campaigned on. And so, I'm not sure why the left is so surprised that Donald Trump would appoint somebody who believes in his principles. It's not Donald Trump's job at this moment to be politically correct to the left.

HARLOW: I wouldn't say the people are - well, I wouldn't say people are surprised. It's certainly going to be a contentious debate that carries on to the confirmation process. We will watch.

Arianna de Vogue, thank you.

Congressman, thank you very much.

KINGSTON: Thanks.

HARLOW: Coming up, Donald Trump announces his pick for national security advisor, a retired general who says Islam is a cancer.

Plus, could the new CIA director help Donald Trump keep his promise to bring back waterboarding? We'll talk about it live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:35:00] HARLOW: This was moments ago in Bedminster, New Jersey. Donald Trump welcoming retired General James Mattis. The general is widely seen as a possible pick for Trump's cabinet as secretary of defense. The president-elect with a busy day, meeting earlier today with Mitt Romney. He's got nonstop meetings as his transition team puts it, hiring the men and women who advisers at the White House.

Donald Trump' choice for national security adviser marks a remarkable comeback for Michael Flynn. The retired three-star general has extensive military experience but was forced out of his job at the Defense Intelligence Agency two years ago, in part, because of his combative management style. He is a registered Democrat. And he stunned colleagues by joining the Trump campaign. Remember his name was floated possibly as Trump's running mate at one point. And by trailing to Russia in December. You see him there next to, who else, Russian President Vladimir Putin, who actually paid for that visit. It was a gala for the Kremlin-led propaganda television channel, "RT." It's one of multiple appearances that Flynn has made on Russian television. Flynn says he went to Russia to crack down on Iran's involvement in Middle Eastern conflicts and he says he was not directly paid by Russia. They are the optics that are an issue.

CNN global affairs analyst, Kimberly Dozier, is with us. So is CNN military analyst and Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. Both know Flynn.

Thank you for being here.

Kimberly, let me begin with you.

I mean, if we can pull that picture back up, is Flynn too close to Russia?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANAYST: On the one hand, when you're a new administration and you're taking office, you want to reach out to major superpowers. If you're running for office, you want to talk to major superpowers. You could see this visit in that light.

I did try to ask General Flynn at the time about why he had gone there. He and I have been friends for a while. And he hung up on me. I didn't get a real answer. I don't think they realized that this would be -- this image, would rocket around the world. It was shared with us at "The Daily Beast" by someone in the intelligence community who was alarmed. They said, he just had intelligence briefings. We didn't know, as a retired officer, what he can get, we didn't know he was going to Moscow.

HARLOW: General Hertling, to you.

As someone who knows Flynn as well, one of the keys controversies surrounding him is because of his comments about Muslims. Let me play this. This is what he said back in August of 2015.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GEN. MICHAEL FLYNN, TRUMP'S NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Islam is a political ideology, a political ideology. It definitely hides behind the notion of it being a religion. It's like cancer. I've gone through cancer in my own life, and so it's like cancer. It's like a malignant cancer in this case. It has metastasized.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: He also tweeted, "Fear of Muslims is rational. Please forward this to others. The truth fears no questions."

General Hertling, to you.

It seems like he is confusing the religion, Islam, and radical Islamic terrorism and making it sound as though they are one. Does it concern you?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It concerns me greatly. Mike is a passionate and energized speaker. He will do well in this post-truth world because he relies on emotions sometimes more than facts. He frankly gets it wrong in both of the statements. And as a general officer, had he said either of those things, and -- and as a retired general officer, I try and continue to live by the values instilled by the Army in me. He would have been in big trouble because it goes against some of our values and some of the creed we take. We've got --

HARLOW: What happens if he continues to say these things in his new position?

HERTLING: Well, that remains to be seen. And I don't want to prejudge any of that. But we are fighting with Muslims right now in Iraq. We are shoulder to shoulder in Iraq and Afghanistan, and many other places with Muslim soldiers. Islam is not a threat, in and of itself. I don't believe it's a political movement. It's a religion. Islamism is certainly a political movement. And there are some radical extreme Muslims as part of the religion. But he is certainly conflating those two things and being very unprofessional in the way he's doing it.

HARLOW: Kimberly, I want to get your take on Congressman Mike Pompeo, the choice for the head of the CIA. Obviously, a Congressman from Kansas. Let's just tick off some of the things we know about him. He's very conservative. He's from the Tea Party. A former Army guy, graduated first in his class from West Point. He was part of the House panel that investigated the Benghazi attacks. He said that Trey Gowdy didn't go far enough in his report against Hillary Clinton. And he is opposed to closing Gitmo.

Do you believe he will help Trump keep the campaign promise of waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation techniques that the current president, President Obama, has called terrorism?

[15:40:12] DOZIER: Yes, he's has been on record saying that waterboarding, which President Obama called torture --

HARLOW: Called torture. Called torture.

DOZIER: -- hasn't -- that he doesn't think it should have been taken off the table as a tool that the CIA should be able to use. He's also said he wants to support a collection of metadata. When the NSA, after the Snowden leaks, got some of its powers to looking into the metadata, for instance, Americans' phone records, when they got checked, he said that shouldn't have happened. The CIA has a technical arm that some officers say is more powerful than the NSA's at looking at data overseas. He'll want to make use of that as much as he can. So, he's going in to the CIA with a remit to return them to the forefront on the war on terror and hand back some of the -- what were seen as excesses of the Bush administration. And you combine that with a Michael Flynn, who is on record as wanting to be more aggressive against Islam, it's a combination that has got civil rights and human rights activists worried.

HARLOW: Very quickly to you, General Hertling. John McCain came out and said, basically, I don't care what the president says, we will not be waterboarding. What happens to the people who are actually tasked with carrying these things out? If they are told, yes, you will waterboard, but they believe it is torture, what do they do?

HERTLING: If it was a military person, a uniformed person, they could disregard that as an illegal order, which it is. It violates the Geneva Conventions on two different counts. But we went through this discussion once before, Poppy, truthfully in the early 2000s when waterboarding was brought in. The military said we would not do it. The CIA didn't have a lot of the agents that said they would do it, too. They went out to contractors who thought it would be effective. So, those contractors were hired by the CIA. They were not CIA personnel. And it -- truthfully, when you're talking about the legalities of all this, it gets troubling when you're asked to disobey what are known to be violations of international law.

HARLOW: Kimberly, Lieutenant General, thank you both very much. Appreciate the information considering you both know Mr. Flynn.

Coming up, President-elect Donald Trump will take office with a Supreme Court seat to fill. The list of possible nominees may be getting shorter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Even if you can't stand Donald Trump, you think Donald Trump is the worst, you're going to vote for me. Do you know why? Justices of the Supreme Court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[15:46:38] HARLOW: Welcome back. Donald Trump's transition team has more than 4,000 jobs to fill, including an open seat on the Supreme Court, left open by the late Antonin Scalia. During his term, Trump may get to shape the high court for decades to come. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is 83. Anthony Kennedy is 80. Justice Stephen Breyer, 78.

Trump released a list of possible justices to fill the seat during his campaign, saying, "This list is definitive and I will choose only from it in picking future justices of the United States Supreme Court."

CNN Supreme Court reporter, Ariane de Vogue, is back with me.

Is there an even shorter list that is circulating now, especially among Republicans? I mean, what names would you be looking at most closely now?

DE VOGUE: It's worth noting that no other president-elect has ever put out such a list. Frankly, it was done to soothe the conservatives. A short list has emerged. And on the top would be Judge William Pryor, 54. He's called Roe v. Wade an abomination. Diane Sykes, 58, she's on the Seventh Circuit. A dark horse candidate is Joan Larsen. She serves on the Michigan Supreme Court, not an appellate court. She hasn't been on the bench that long. But the conservatives have a lot of faith in her. She's a former Scalia clerk. Then finally there's Senator Mike Lee. He's 45, best friends with Ted Cruz. He's the only non-judge on this list. He comes with solid credentials for them.

HARLOW: Speaking of Ted Cruz, he had a meeting this week with Donald Trump, which I think surprised a lot of people, considering they were not the best of friends during the campaign. But the talk was, would there be even a chance that Donald Trump would tap Ted Cruz for -- for Scalia's seat. He's not on that list of 21. What do you think the chances are?

DE VOGUE: Well, that's the big question. Would Trump go off this list. But if he did, the conservatives, of course, would love Ted Cruz. He comes -- he was a Rehnquist, clerk for Chief Justice Rehnquist. He comes with solid credentials. I guess some think maybe Trump wouldn't mind taking him out of the political arena. But I talked to Trump yesterday. He was in -- I had talked to Cruz yesterday. He was in town --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: I was going to say, give us the scoop on the interview with Donald Trump.

DE VOGUE: Not Trump. Cruz. I said, look, would you talk the seat if -- if you were asked? He completely dodged the question.

HARLOW: Former solicitor general, certainly, has a long legal background.

Let me ask you also, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, 83. She was so confident during the election that a Democrat would win that she stayed in her seat, she didn't step down. Any insight now?

DE VOGUE: What's interesting is, back in 2014, a law professor publicly wrote in the "L.A. Times," saying she should step down if only to give a chance to a younger nominee. She said, "The way Congress is now, we couldn't get a progressive that would please us in my seat. I'm going stay on." She also said that she thought Obama would put -- would be succeeded by a Democratic president. So, like a lot of people, she may have not thought clearly on who would win the election.

It's worth noting she's showing no signs of slowing down. She's was in a non-speaking role in the opera last week. She's been spoofed in "Saturday Night Live." But, at the end of the day, she is 83 years old. That was the concern back in 2014.

[15:50:13] HARLOW: Ariane de Vogue, appreciate the reporting. Fascinating. And as soon as you know more, let us know. This is obviously something that's getting a lot of attention.

Coming up, Trump Tower now one of the biggest draws in New York City. Every tourist seems to go there, especially now. How the Secret Service is working to keep the president-elect safe in his own home. There's now an unprecedented security plan in place. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Voting is now under way for "CNN Hero" of the year. Sheldon Smith is one of this year's top-10 CNN Heroes. His non-profit, The Dovetail Project, has helped nearly 200 young dads build skills to help parents. We want you to meet Sheldon Smith.

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[15:54:56] SHELDON SMITH, CNN HERO (voice-over): Being a dad taught me to overcome because I didn't have a father figure around that taught me what being a dad is. Fatherhood doesn't come with a map. Fatherhood doesn't come with a manual. And sometimes you can learn from others or you learn on the fly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm in this program trying to do better so my son won't have to go through what I went through.

SMITH: Amen.

(voice-over): 70 percent of African-American children grow up in single-parent households. What I wanted to do was figure out how to provide these men with the skills and tools that they need to stay involved in their children's lives and really support the next generation of children.

My goal at the end of the day when I started the Dovetail Project was to right the cycle because I grew up in a community where a lot of young men faced the same issues that I was facing and no one was doing anything about it. There aren't too many places where a father can go and get the help and support that he actually needs. Being able to have those resources that you actually need to make an impact on your child's life, like employment or some type of assistance, is key and very important. And I really wanted to be the person who built the hub for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: You can vote for Sheldon or any of your favorite top-10 CNN Heroes right now at cnnheroes.com.

We'll be right back.

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[16:00:02] HARLOW: Top of the hour. You're live in the CNN NEWSOOM. I'm Poppy Harlow, in New York.