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Trump Meeting with Huckabee; Trump Departing to New Jersey; Sessions Dogged by Racism Allegations; Trump to Meet with Fierce Critic Romney; Trump Selects National Security Team. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired November 18, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[14:00:22] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. This is CNN. Thank you so much for joining me on this Friday.

Donald Trump has filled three posts that are key in defending this country. Two of the three men chosen were also key in defending Trump during this entire presidential campaign of his. You have Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions. He has accepted the nomination to become President-elect Trump's attorney general. Senator Sessions was actually the first U.S. senator to announce his support for Mr. Trump. But he has been dogged with decades-old allegations of racism, which we'll get into here in a judgeship he didn't attain.

Meantime, retired Lieutenant General Michael Flynn will become - would like to become Trump's national security advisor. Flynn, a registered Democrat, often introduced Trump on the campaign trail.

And then there's Kansas Congressman Mike Pompeo. He is up for CIA director. And according to a source, Pompeo doesn't actually know President-elect Trump very well, nor did he do much campaigning for Trump.

Reaction to these choices ranges from complementary to caustic. Take this tweet from former Michigan Democratic Congressman John Dingle. He tweeted, quote, "forget the basket, the truly deplorable ones end up in the cabinet." Ouch. He, of course, is referring to Hillary Clinton's now infamous campaign comment about some of Trump's supporters.

We will be learning much more on all of Trump's choices in just a moment, but first to Trump Tower and our national correspondent Sunlen Serfaty.

Any moment now, Sunlen, we know that Donald Trump will be leaving for New Jersey. Tell me more about what you know.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brooke. And he has one more meeting here at Trump Tower today before departing. At this hour, he is sitting down with Governor Mike Huckabee, whose name has been floated for a potential pick for commerce secretary, potentially for secretary of Health and Human Services. Now, earlier today, President-elect Donald Trump hold - held a two hour long meeting with his entire transition staff, not doubt a point where they could look at where they've come in the week and a half since election day and where they're going in terms of filling out the rest of Donald Trump's administration.

Now, heading into this weekend, Trump will be holed up at his golf resort in Bedminster, New Jersey, where he will be headed later this afternoon, where one transition official says that the pace of the meetings will be non-stop over the next two days. And certainly among those meetings will be so-called, you know, auditions or interviews for some of these key top cabinet posts, including with Mitt Romney, who we know is being under consideration for secretary of state. Also Michelle Rhee, a potential for Department of Education, and General James Mattis, under consideration for secretary of defense, according to transition officials.

So, Brooke, many posts filled today. Many, many more to go.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Sunlen, thank you.

Let's drill down, though, a little bit more on Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions, the man Mr. Trump would like to be the nation's top prosecutor. Senator Sessions' nomination is not without controversy. Let me take you back 30 years. Then President Ronald Reagan nominated him to a federal judgeship but the Senate Judiciary Committee rejected his nomination. A black former assistant U.S. attorney testified that Sessions called him "boy" when he worked for him. Sessions adamantly denied these allegations of racism against him and still does to this very day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JEFF SESSIONS (R), ALABAMA: I am not a racist. I am not insensitive to blacks. I supported civil rights activity in my state. I have done my job with integrity, equality, and fairness for all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go to Pamela Brown, our justice correspondent in Washington, with more on Senator Sessions.

He's been a U.S. senator, Pam, for nearly 20 years. How likely is it that these decades' old allegations of racism will hurt his chances of becoming A.G.?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: These alleged allegations of racist comments that he made decades ago, Brooke, will likely come up during the confirmation hearings. As you point out, this was in 1986, when he was up for a federal judgeship, and some of his colleagues at the time had testified saying that he called the NAACP un-American and that communists inspired an African-American who had worked under Sessions testified that he called him "boy" and joked about the KKK, saying he was OK with them until he found out they smoked weed. And as you just heard there, Sessions, Jeff Sessions at the time and still to this day has come out and said those allegations are false, that he is not a racist, that he despises the KKK, but that doesn't mean, Brooke, that this will not resurface during the confirmation hearings along with his civil rights record over the years.

[14:05:11] In 2009, he voted against expanding the hate crime laws to cover gays and lesbians. He's called the Voting Rights Act intrusive legislation. But you - we've seen some senators that have worked with him over the years, he's been in the Senate for 20 years, come out, applaud this nomination. Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, has said that no doubt he will be confirmed and that he cares deeply about this country. Donald Trump, who nominated him, says he has a great legal mind. But others have also come out, Brooke, and said, even though he is a colleague, even though he is well-respected in the Senate, that doesn't mean he won't undergo the same kind of strict scrutiny that others would seeking this position.

BALDWIN: You perfectly laid it out for me, setting up my next conversation. Pam Brown, thank you.

But before we get on to that, just so we're all on the same page, you have Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, he's the only Trump selection who will actually not have to go through those confirmation hearings. That is because the national security advisor is part of the White House staff and not the cabinet.

A lot to talk about now. With me, Steve Cortes, a former member of Trump's Hispanic Advisory Council. Lanhee Chen is back with us, CNN political commentator. He used to serve as public policy director for Mitt Romney. CNN's senior political analyst David Gergen, who has been an advisor to four presidents. And CNN political commentator Angela Rye, used to be the executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus.

So, awesome to have you all on.

Steve Cortes, I mean Pam Brown perfectly teed it up, you know, the list of the pros, the list of the cons -

STEVE CORTES, FORMER MEMBER, TRUMP'S HISPANIC ADVISORY COUNCIL: Right.

BALDWIN: For Senator Sessions as A.G., especially with the allegations of racism from decades ago. How would you defend him?

CORTES: Well, I defend him thusly. You know, first of all, we're talking - if the best they can do is come up with something from 30 years ago, I think the man - it shows this man has an incredible record of public service, attorney general of state of Alabama, U.S. attorney and two decade long senator. But, clearly, that's going to come up again, the allegations from the 1980s.

And I guess I'd say two things. Number one is that he denied them and I believe him. I take him at his word. I think he's shown himself to be a man of honor. Secondly - and I think this is really important - he didn't lose a full Senate vote. He lost in committee. His nomination was killed there. Two Republicans crossed over and voted with the Democrats. One of them, former Senator Arlen Specter later recanted and said he should not have done that. Said it was a mistake. I would also point out two of his current Senate colleagues who are vociferously anti-Trump, Senator Flake from Arizona and Senator Graham from South Carolina, both of them have immediately come out strongly in support of Senator Sessions. And these are not folks who are willing to just automatically de facto back a Trump nominee.

BALDWIN: All important pieces of the puzzle if, in fact, he's able to sail through or not.

Angela Rye, you feel differently?

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I do. I think it's not even about feelings, it's just about record. So, for example, and Pamela brought this up in her commentary, for Jeff Sessions to say that the Voting Rights Act was an intrusive piece of legislation and that is the very thing that was just before the Supreme Court in 2014. Of course the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act and since then you haven't been able to get consensus in the Congress - in the House or the Senate on moving something forward to fix what they said was wrong with the Voting Rights Act.

So here you have someone who's running to be - or in the running to be the attorney general nominee and he doesn't believe in voting rights legislation. So what does that really mean? That means that the civil rights division, which I would argue is one of the most important right now thanks to Attorney General Eric Holder and Attorney General Loretta Lynch, is he going to gut those if he doesn't see the point? So while Steve mentioned that he declined to admit to some of the things he's been accused of, he did admit before the Senate hearing in the '80s - go ahead.

BALDWIN: No, no, no, I'm just - I'm listening to you and I think just also, adding on to this, and, David Gergen, I want your voice, because also Senator Sessions made comments in the wake of the FBI investigations that the James Comey, the letter that we reported on and the Hillary Clinton, you know, private e-mail server, he is actually on the record saying Comey hasn't completed the full investigation, should be more fully investigated. Are you taking that into consideration? Should the Senate take that into consideration if, in fact, they move forward?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Absolutely. The Senate must have a comprehensive hearing, as it does with other major nominees. The attorney general's position is one of the most important in the U.S. government. And in particular, Brooke, as you well know, it is - it's long been seen as the custodian of civil rights in the country. So that I - Mr. - I think the question before the group in terms of civil rights would be, OK, we know what the record was 30 years ago, but - and we know it's in controversy. He did go down in a Republican committee, and that's important. But what has been his record since then? And I think in fairness people ought to scrutinize that and then make the judgment, not simply go back to the 30 years.

[14:10:05] But we've had lots of people who have been major civil rights advocates over time who came out of the south and changed their minds over time. Hugo Black as a justice or there are others that we've seen who have - who've had conversions in effect and have come - become much stronger defenders. So I think in fairness to him, we ought to have the complete record out there.

At the same time, it's important to explore what is his view on Comey? Is he going - is he - is he -

RYE: Right.

GERGEN: Would he lean, in fact, then, to having a special prosecutor? That's a huge question that has been raised by the - by the Trump people themselves. But the other thing, of course, is, he has very strong conservative views about undocumented people here in this country.

RYE: Right.

GERGEN: And those questions are going to be swirling around, too. So I think in fairness to him, there ought to be complete and full hearings and then let's - then the Congress can make up its mind.

BALDWIN: Well, you have now in these first three names that have been, you know, selected - Sessions, Flynn, Pompeo - Lanhee, who are all core, you know, soldiers for Mr. Trump, hard-liners, you know, anything but mainstream, and then now you have your former boss, Governor Romney, add him into the mix, meaning with Mr. Trump over the weekend. Possibly even considered for a cabinet position. Maybe even secretary of state. Let's give Mr. Trump the benefit of the doubt that this is truly an olive branch and this is genuine. How would Mitt Romney, who's been so critical of him, even wrap his head around working in a Trump administration?

LANHEE CHEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Brooke, let me just start with kind of what Governor Romney has done since the election. I mean, obviously, you saw Governor Romney issue a congratulatory tweet and then you saw the two of them have a phone conversation. Mitt Romney's a patriot at heart. He is someone who believes strongly about trying to unify the country now that the election is done. So his priority is going to be, as he said over and over again, to help the president-elect be successful in implementing those policy priorities that he agrees with. So I think that's where we have to start with.

The other point I would make also about these appointments, Brooke, is that we have to give the president some deference in this regard, right, because you think about the priorities of a Trump administration, they are going to be different from an Obama administration. So the kind of people he's going to be appointing are going to be different and so we have to allow the president-elect that latitude as he makes these selections. And I think so far at least the people he's selected are not uncredentialed. These are people that have done things in their lives that are relevant to the positions that they've been appointed to and I think at this point we really ought to, as David said, give him the benefit of the doubt.

BALDWIN: How would this signal to - what's the signal to Democrats?

RYE: Yes, and I - I think that's really the big issue here, right? You - you're - you are - he is going to be different. But the issue is, are you going to be so different that you undermine democracy, that you continue to do just that? And David mentioned, we need to look at his current record. Well, in 2015, he was talking about putting people who illegally immigrated back into this country in jail for five years. That's a law and order presidency that Donald Trump has talked about. He's clear that he would be a law and order A.G. And I think that undermines democracy in a way that forgets everything that we've learned of recent - about mass incarceration and over criminalization of things that aren't worthy of criminalizing. So I think that is a real flag for us and I can't wait for these Senate hearings where Democrats and Republicans will join together to ask some really tough questions.

BALDWIN: (INAUDIBLE).

CORTES: Well, Angela, to that point, though, I mean we -

BALDWIN: Just quickly. Go ahead quickly.

CORTES: And I don't want to re-litigate the election, but we just had an election that was largely about the very issue you mentioned, which is illegal immigration, and the people of the United States sided with Donald Trump and with Senator Sessions and I said as a Latino and they decided -

RYE: The states did, Steve. Look at that popular vote.

CORTES: And they decided - no, we don't have a popular vote here. We're a republic and we have an Electoral College.

RYE: Oh. Oh, OK. We need to have a popular vote.

CORTES: And they decided - OK, well, read the Constitution.

BALDWIN: We have both. We have both.

CORTES: And they decided via our Electoral College, by the way, that the - that the victims are not the illegal aliens -

RYE: (INAUDIBLE).

CORTES: The victims are legal immigrants and Americans.

RYE: They're people, Steve.

CORTES: We already decided that as a country and they have a mandate then to continue forward with those puzzles.

RYE: We didn't.

CORTES: Yes, we did. We won. Are you saying we didn't win?

RYE: No, we didn't.

CORTES: Are you saying we didn't win? RYE: No, I'm saying that - I'm saying - no, what I'm saying is that you did not win the popular vote and I don't subscribe to the term illegal aliens. I'm talking about undocumented people. So I just think -

CORTES: Because we don't run for the popular vote. We don't try to win the popular vote, we won the electoral vote and that's how we choose a president by our Constitution.

RYE: That (INAUDIBLE) - OK, congratulations. Nevertheless -

CORTES: No, you don't have to congratulate me. Congratulate the Constitution.

RYE: Steve - OK.

CORTES: That's our system.

RYE: Steve - Steve, and I guess the point is, sometimes - there's a whole challenge and I - we probably can't get into it here, but there's a whole argument that's existed for centuries about the strict constitutional nature - or strict constructionist nature of the Constitution. We don't have time to go into that now, but there are people who believe that the Constitution is actually a living and breathing document. And sometimes it requires change.

CORTES: OK. Well, we don't believe that.

RYE: So congratulations on the -

CORTES: We don't believe that and we just won based on those principles, but who cares what I believe. The American people voted us in based on those principles of strict constructionism. And I think that that's going to be one of the reasons that Senator Sessions will be a great attorney general.

RYE: Yes, I don't think that's going to happen.

CORTES: He's going to uphold the Bill of Rights, which has been under attack, whether it's religious liberty, gun rights.

BALDWIN: OK.

CORTES: The Bill of Rights is really in danger and he's (INAUDIBLE).

[14:15:03] RYE: And we'll fight you all the way, Steve.

BALDWIN: I appreciate - we can do -

RYE: We'll fight you all the way.

BALDWIN: We can do a Constitution segment at another time.

CHEN: Brooke -

BALDWIN: We've got to go, but I do appreciate the healthy disagreement and I think this is just foreshadowing to these tough questions that are -

RYE: (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: That will arise for some of these folks in these confirmation hearings. Thank you all so much.

RYE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: So much more to get to today. The president-elect right now meeting with Governor Mike Huckabee over at Trump Tower. Trump expected to be departing this location shortly for New Jersey. We will - obviously, lots of cameras inside there. We'll sneak a peek to see if anyone passes by and we'll turn that around for you.

Also ahead, General Michael Flynn and Kansas Congressman Mike Pompeo, who are they? What are their resumes? What are their national security chops that they could bring to this country? We have the back story on both of them.

Also, he was an outspoken critic of Donald Trump, but this weekend Mitt Romney and the president-elect will speak and meet face to face. We'll talk about that with the former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer. So much for Ari today.

We'll be right back. You're watching CNN.

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BALDWIN: And we're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

[14:19:59] President-elect Donald Trump finally shoring up his future national security team. What do we know about his selections? Well, I can tell you that Kansas Congressman Mike Pompeo has been nominated to become the next CIA director. Impressive resume. West Point grad. Army vet. He was an early supporter of Trump in the House and is a member of the House Select Committee on Intelligence. He's also linked to the Tea Party movement, rode that waive into Congress.

Trump's selection for national security advisor is Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, a retired three star general with extensive military experience, but he was forced out of his job over at the DIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency, just two years ago. He supports aggressive military action against ISIS and wants to work more closely with Russia.

So, I have with me now Jim Sciutto, our CNN chief national security correspondent, Mike Baker, former CIA covert operations officer.

So great to see both of you.

And, Jim Sciutto, just beginning with these two men, tell me more about them and, you know, how seriously will they be considered as contenders?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I think big picture, one, these positions matter, right? They are big, powerful positions. And, two, any sense that Donald Trump was going to move towards the center as president, I think at least with these early selections, we should dispense with that thought, at least for now, although he's, of course, talking to a broader expanse of folks, for instance, for secretary of state when you think of a name like Mitt Romney. But when you look at Flynn, early supporter of Trump, some pretty hardline views, some offensive views, for instance, on Islam, some very different views on a country such as Russia, which many in the defense and intelligence world see as a primary threat to the U.S. He's tried to turn that on its head to some degree. So that's a big difference.

You look at a Pompeo, he is now getting, unlike Flynn, support for Democrats, as well as Republicans, on there. Just spoke a short time ago to one of his fellow members of the House Intelligence Committee, Adam Schiff. Said he's smart and even expects him to moderate some of the positions he had while he was serving in the House there. This is a guy who opposed closing Gitmo, for instance, opposed the ban on torture. But it's a powerful position to be in. If you hold those positions, he will have the president's ear on some very key issues, key national security issues.

BALDWIN: What about - just honing in on General Flynn, Mike, you know, when you look at his experience, you know, he knows the enemy. But back to the job at the DIA, you know, he lost his job apparently because of temperament issues, ethics issues. Not to mention there is video of him with Vladimir Putin, which would not assuage concerns, right, for folks critical of just the Trump administration being buddy buddy with Russia. How concerning is that in this selection?

MIKE BAKER, FORMER CIA COVERT OPERATIONS OFFICER: Yes, I'm frankly not particular concerned about this - this narrative that was built up, that somehow, you know, Trump and Trump's appointments are going to be, you know, naive about Vladimir Putin. You know, I think you - you're right in saying that he was forced out of DIA. I think part of that was - he was at odds with the administration over some of his more aggressive views towards the Islamic state and his opinions as to whether we were being as successful as we could be. At the time there was an aspect of that.

So, you know, I think when you - when you move into a position like the national security advisor, you're aware of a lot more, right? You're really at that funnel point where all the information is fed in. And Mike Flynn - nobody's arguing Mike Flynn is not an extremely smart individual. He's also a very, very good tactical operator and he also understands how intelligence becomes actionable. And the value of quality intelligence. Accurate intelligence in terms of its operational value.

So I think when he gets into that position and he now is responsible at the 30,000 foot level, I think he's a very smart man and I've got a lot of confidence that some of those views, as Jim pointed out, I think some of these views will be moderated.

BALDWIN: OK. Great. Jim, back to Pompeo and, you know, his resume. This is - it's impressive, the fact that he graduated first in his class at West Point, then was the editor of "The Harvard Business Review," as we mentioned, rode the Tea Party wave into Congress, served in the Benghazi committee. You know, but when it comes to intel experience, why would he be the selection for the head of the CIA?

SCIUTTO: Well, on the House Intel Committee, you're going to get - you're going to get high level classified briefings on the main issues. So he has some background there. But you're right, it's not the - somewhat unusual. The last sitting congressman to be head of the CIA was Porter Goss and frankly that didn't go very well. He lasted just about a year and he was forced out. I mean the intelligence agencies, they can be pretty tight-knit fraternities and sororities and he could be seen as an outsider, though he does have that experience on the committee.

[14:24:58] I will take - I will disagree somewhat on the issue of Flynn because, listen, there's no question he was an impeccable commander. He was at General McChrystal's side, crediting with turning around the fight against al Qaeda in Afghanistan, but also against ISIS' predecessor in Iraq. But as a manager, he elicited enough concerns about this management style to be fired as the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency when he had that position. And since then, his behavior on the trail, the comments he made in public about Muslims, but also about locking up Hillary Clinton, et cetera, I heard criticisms of that, not just from Democrats, but I heard it from inside the five-walled building of the Pentagon, people uncomfortable with a - granted retired general, but a military man making very sometimes out there comments which gives real concern. I just spoke with someone today who described his judgment as erratic, while also granting that as a military commander he had an impeccable record. But those are two very different jobs, tactical intel guy on the battlefield and high level advisor inside the White House.

BALDWIN: And all that is important to weigh. But, again, for NSA, you know, you don't need the Senate confirmation. So that maybe puts a little extra pressure on how that person and who that person is.

Jim and Mike, I appreciate both of you on those two gentlemen.

BAKER: Brooke, thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Next, Syrian President Bashar al Assad has called Donald Trump a natural ally. He is one of a handful of world leaders cheering on a Trump presidency. We'll talk to Fareed Zakaria about all of this, next.

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