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CNN NEWSROOM

Trump Plans To Deport "Criminals" In U.S. Illegally; Russia Speaks on Future of Russia/US Ties; Colorado Elector Wants Colleagues To Ditch Trump

Aired November 15, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:02] KRIS KOBACH, TRUMP ADVISOR ON IMMIGRATION: ... person is arrested. And that's where -- that's why the federal government keep coming and say look, this guy is a known gang member. He's been arrested maybe multiple times. Sure they haven't convicted him yet, but we ought to get him out of country. And that's what this administration, the Trump administration will probably do and what the Obama administration has not been doing.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: All right, secretary, thank you so much for joining us. We do really appreciate it. Kris Kobach, with us there.

KOBACH: My pleasure.

KEILAR: Thank you and up next, if you remember your civics class you know that we the voters don't actually elect the president. It's the Electoral College that does that. That happens December 19th. And that means that some Trump opponents still think they have time and a way to stop him. I'm going to introduce you to one of them next.

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[12:35:03] KEILAR: Realistic or not, some protesters across the nation are hanging their hopes on what many would say is a pipe dream, that members of the Electoral College will block Donald Trump's election when they vote on December 19th.

Now, one of the two men leading this charge is Michael Baca, he is a Colorado state elector, he's a DNC national delegate and he has launched what he calls moral electors to try to convince his Republican leagues to ignore the will of their state's voters and ditch the President-elect Donald Trump. Michael, thank you so much for being with us. I've been talking to some people, Democrats, very upset ... MICHAEL BACA, COLORADO STATE ELECTOR: I want to say real quick, its Hamilton Electors not more electors.

KEILAR: More Hamilton electors. Our apologies.

BACA: Yes.

KEILAR: OK, Hamilton elector. All right, so I've been talking to folks who they reject Donald trump as the president-elect as the choice and they're hanging their hopes, as you are, on this idea that that December 19th electors can change this, that they can actually go against what we've seen in the past, faceless electors as they are called, and I wonder why do you think that is a good idea?

BACA: Well, you know, we believe that the Hamilton Electors that there's a failed safe mechanism within the Electoral College that where there to deliberate and we have 34 days to come around, we the people candidate, we the people Republican Candidate. We understand that there's many issues at the Electoral College and we're also seeking for electoral from. But by opening up a dialogue we cans start to speak and reach across the aisle to everybody, because overwhelmingly I think people in this election decided they didn't want to vote for either candidate on either side.

KEILAR: A lot of people -- we know a lot of people did decide that and we saw neither one of them got as many votes as in the past couple of elections.

BACA: Yes.

KEILAR: I've heard people make this case. I wonder what you think about it. That -- that especially people who did not support Donald Trump if they were to look at this a as -- if the shoe were on the other foot and electors were trying to disrupt a Hillary Clinton election, these two candidates went through this process with a system that is very clear. It's not like the Electoral College is a surprise. We know how this works. We've seen this play out in past elections. How is that not undermining the election itself, undermining democracy to be a proponent of this type of action?

BACA: So you believe that we're undermining the election? I believe we're trying to reach out and speak to the people who did not have a choice in this election. I've spoken to so many people that had felt the Republicans and Democrat. They didn't want to vote for Hillary, they didn't want to vote for Donald Trump. And so by doing this, we can reach across the aisle, we can have another candidate that is going to, you know, say more than stop it to the people that are damaging this country.

KEILAR: Well, they did -- they had other choices. I mean there were other candidates on the ballot, besides Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, so they did have a choice.

BACA: But, you know, in the media, we all -- we know how, we live in a two-party system. There's only two realistic candidates. I believe the last check it was 62 million votes for Hillary, 61-odd for Donald Trump. But the exit polls showed that 58 percent of American or GOP voters didn't want to vote for Donald Trump and 60 percent of Democratic voters didn't want to vote for Hillary and we had 45 percent of the voting public who didn't want to even vote. Which is, I think, a shame and, you know, we need to really re-engage the American public and by providing a platform for Electoral College reform. We think we can do that.

KEILAR: Do you think that you should change the result of what the Electoral College we would expect would decide, which is that Donald Trump is president?

BACA: Well, you know, Donald Trump won the Electoral College vote but, you know, Hillary Clinton, she won the popular vote, and I think many people, you know, we live under this assumption that we live in the democracy but I believe it's more of a constitutional republic.

And so, you know, the final votes are in 34 days. 538 people are going to be casting a ballot for president, and when you have president who's a climate denialist, that affects 7.4 billion people and I think that is what is so important and why we must speak out, and there are fine Republicans who believe that climate is man-made, and we just vary on approach on how to get there.

KEILAR: All right. Michael, we appreciate you being on to talk about this. What's really sort of a controversial thing, this idea of faithful selectors, you're with the Hamilton electors as we said.

BACA: Hamilton electors. And we're not faceless.

KEILAR: Hamilton electors, all right.

BACA: Yes ma'am.

KEILAR: The concept of faithful selectors, that's what I'm talking about. You dubbed yourself the Hamilton electors and thank you for being on.

[12:39:59] Now, sources involved in Donald Trump's transition team, they say that there are sharp internal disagreements over key cabinet appointments. One key battle is between traditional party operatives like Reince Priebus and none traditional influences like Steve Bannon. And then there's another challenge, clarity and the lack there of over the division of power.

I want to bring in now CNN Political Commentator Patti Solis Doyle, former campaign manager for Hillary Clinton and CNN Political Commentator Doug Hai. He is a Republican strategist, former RNC communications director. OK, so what do you make right now of Donald Trump's cabinet picks that we know about, and that we're hearing about? One source is the transition is a "Knife Fight" and then we also hear Rudy Giuliani being considered for a number of positions as well.

DOUG HEYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, if there's a -- he ruled himself, out to be the Attorney General and hinted that he'd be secretary of state ... KEILAR: He wants something bigger, right?

HEYE: ... which interesting way of doing it. Because I've worked and I know Reince Priebus really well, I couldn't be happier, I'm prouder that he is chief of staff, I think he'll do a terrific job, but I also think this conversation is something that speaks to Trump supporters and Republicans who think they can't get a fair shake.

In 2008, at this point whenever internal divisions in the Obama transition we were told that it was a team of rivals, and something that should be applauded. And now we're being told that this is a game of thrones "Knife Fight". This is six days old. Let's give the president-elect an opportunity and a fair shake to determine who his cabinets going to be and we'll see who gets confirmed, who doesn't confirmed and what we can do moving forward.

PATTI SOLIS DOYLE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, look, I think a team of rivals jockeying for position is a totally normal thing to happen in any transition, right? You've got people who worked on the campaign. Who proceed themselves as being very loyal, and sticking with the candidate when others weren't and so they're looking for their jobs, and then you have people who know government, right?

And experts in certain aspects of government, whether it's foreign policy, whether it's, you know, health and human services. But what's not normal in this transition is, senior transition share, as soon as you get elected, is one of the experts quitting. Mike Rogers quit today. And then putting together, putting in the White House right next to the oval office, and I mean right next to the oval office, a white nationalist. Those things are not normal.

KEILAR: OK, so I want to talk to you about that. Steve Bannon, Former head of Breitbart, no longer, has ties to alt-right which is a fancy terminology for a nebulous ideology that includes xenophobes, homophobes, anti-feminist, anti-semitics. Yesterday the president teed up for him to take a swing at Steve Bannon and he didn't. Today he warned though against when he talked about crude, nativism, but is this -- what are Democrats really saying? What are Obama folks really thinking when it comes to Steve Bannon and their worries about him being, as you said, right next to the oval office?

DOYLE: The alt-right is coming into the White House. And that should be disturbing. Not just to Democrats, but to all Americans. This is -- this is fringe we're talking about. I think Democrats are still reeling, obviously. We had what was a pretty imminently winnable race, and there's no sugar coating it. We screwed it up. We lost, and I think right now they're trying to figure out exactly what went wrong, and how to fix it for next time. And also, more importantly than that, what went wrong organizationally and structurally, where is the heart and soul of the Democratic Party, right? And this is such an assault on that heart and soul, I think the party right now needs to regroup and figure out where to go from here.

KEILAR: What about, what are Republicans thinking, Doug? No, you did not support Donald Trump and a lot of Republicans did not. A lot of Republican operatives did not support Donald Trump. They're looking at Steve Bannon. Rudy Giuliani, who's -- I'm not putting them in the same basket to borrow a term from this election, but Rudy Giuliani is someone who is, he's not the most diplomatic guy. And yet he's being rumored for secretary of state. Can you talk about those separate things?

HEYE: Yea, I mean, look, I think that people are still trying to figure out their way through this process. Again, this is six days old. And we'll see some things we like, somethings that we don't like. I look at the press conference today with Paul Ryan outside of HC-5 in the capitol, a basement room that you know pretty well from your time on Capitol Hill.

And I look at Paul Ryan's message of moving forward legislatively to push forward in agenda, because what we've seen over the past year is a broad dissatisfaction certainly with Hillary Clinton, but also with the Obama agenda. We saw it in 2010, and we saw it again in 2014. We can talk about mandates or not mandates, but there are congressional majorities that Republicans have right now. And Paul Ryan, a House Republicans we saw this morning are eager to move forward on that.

That's what politicians are elected to do, to do things and pushing agenda.

[12:44:56] KEILAR: It's so fascinating though, Doug, because I hear Republicans hanging their hats then on congressional Republicans. Not the White House. They're seeing this pathway forward, and it is with Paul Ryan, it is with Mitch McConnell and it is with congressional Republicans and not the White House?

HEYE: Well, I think part of that is because Paul Ryan spent the last three months of the election, not just campaigning for congressional Republicans, but also promoting his better way agenda. Everywhere he went we saw Paul Ryan pull out his note card of a better way. And that's what is going to be a big part of what happens in Washington over the next two and four years.

KEILAR: Certainly going to be interesting. Patti, Doug, thank you so much. And up next, let's talk about this. Donald Trump is about to become leader of the free world. He can't do it alone, though. Who among his inner circumstance will lead the way, when it comes to deformity, the national security, to dealing with wars, terrorism and allies and enemy?

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KEILAR: Perhaps the most sobering responsibility that a president inherits is keeping the nation safe. We looked at Donald Trump's plan for a border wall earlier. But he has some other foreign policy ideas that could also shake up America's approach to global affairs. How to deal with Russia, with NATO and the war against ISIS, just to name a few.

[12:50:01] I want to bring in two of our National Security Experts. We have CNN Military Analyst Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. He served as commanding general for the U.S. army in Europe in the seventh army. Also with us is CNN Counterterrorism Analyst Phil Mudd. He is a former CIA Counterterrorism official.

Phil, start with you, because one of the things that a lot of people are paying attention to is Donald Trump's request that his kids have security clearance. That they are able to see secret things that obviously the average citizen wouldn't be able to have. What do you think about that? And how unusual is that?

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Well, first of all, Brianna, I'm not sure it's a request. I think reporting is there was an inquiry made. I'd like to tell people to settle down on this. Let me give you a clear picture of what's going on. A president-elect has relied on three individuals in their 30s, young people without a lot of experience, during a campaign.

That president-elect now moves into a new position that says I want these people who I trust also to be part of my national security conversations. For them to be part of that conversation they have to have a top secret clearance there is to have a top-secret clearance. Two of those people happen to be named Trump, their children and one a son-in-law.

I think this is Odd, but not shocking that he wants to depend on the same people he's relied on all along. I'll close Brianna, by saying I think the real question is not whether they get a clearance. The question, how you separate out whatever corporate interest they maintain in Trump organization with whether they participate in national security conversations, because I don't think you can do both at the same time.

KEILAR: No. That's a huge issue, and a potential conflict there. General Hertling, when you heard about this, this inquiry, I mean what was the first thing that came to your mind? Are you concerned? There are a number of people who have looked and they've said, well, you know, his kids gave him this element of being measured, that they actually had some calming advice and were influential on him. I don't know if that's enough for this inquiry to be granted, though.

MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes. I'm in line with Phil on this one, Brianna. I think, you know, a president can pick anyone he wants to be an adviser. When that happens they're going to be preview to state secrets and sometimes the way those secrets are actually garnered. The problem is how do you separate information which would be as part of those secrets from a private sector effort?

You know, can you separate what's going on, on behalf of the government with what's going on, on behalf of a private business? When you were seeing a cable as an example that says this is going on in this country, and here's what's affecting it, could you use that for a business advantage?

So certainly, you know, Mr. Trump can pick anyone he wants to be his advisers, but, boy, we better be very, very careful about a conflict of interests there, how they use that information for things other than serving the American people and the government. And that's the critical part. KEILAR: All right. So that's the big issue there. Let's talk about Russia, Phil. When you see that Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump have spoken, there's a desire for them to have a better relationship between the U.S. and Russia. You look at that, what is your reaction?

MUDD: I understand what the president is trying to do. He's trying to reset at a time, where not only is the relationship with Russia poor, but we have critical interests particularly in Syria. Do we want to continue supporting the Syrian opposition and letting a civil war continue or do we want to cut a deal with Russia that says, maybe that butcher, Bashar al-Assad will stay in power but that will allow us all the focus attention on ISIS.

I'd step back for a moment though Brianna, and say as time goes on, and a new president-elect sees what the Russians are doing in places like Europe what they did in Crimea, what they did in Eastern Ukrain, how they might threaten other European countries, with things like cutting off energy. What theirs doing in terms of hacking American companies in terms of hacking not only U.S. government but a trump White House, I think there will be a collision with reality at some point resetting this effort to make the relationship with Putin better. I think it'll be very difficult to do.

KEILAR: How does that I wonder ...

HERTLING: And, Brianna.

KEILAR: General, go on.

HERTLING: Yeah, if I can add to that. Phil is right again. That's twice in one day, that's amazing. But here is what I'd say, if look back at the history, the history of our past several presidents, each one of them have come into office saying, I want to reset conditions with Russia. And every time there's been a great deal of hoopla about that, and people sometimes forget that Russia influences many other countries.

You're going to have to take a wide view when you're talking strategy, and you can't just go nation to nation. Who else is affected by a very good relationship with Russia? Certainly if we can improve relations with Russia, that's a good thing. But how are our other allies going to look that? And what I'll tell you being someone who spent a lot of time in Europe and with NATO partners, they are scared to death right now across the board that there is going to be a putting aside of some of the things that we have done as an alliance against Russia.

[12:55:05] because of their incursion into Ukraine, into Georgia, into Moldova, into some other countries, into Syria and they are concerned that some of the cyber hacks that's been going on, which is not only been directed at us, have also been directed at other countries. Like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. So There is concern about a unilateral view of saying, we're going to reset condition with Russia without understanding that there's a much wider picture to deal with whenever you have those kind of unilateral agreements.

KEILAR: All right, gentlemen, thank you so much. General Mark Hertling, as well as Phil Mudd, always appreciate you guys and in agreement today, so unusual, but nice to see.

Hertling: Amazing.

Mudd: And rare moment.

KEILAR: And thank you so much for watching "Newsroom." Wolf starts, right after a quick break.

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[12:00:13] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. Its 1:00 p.m. here Washington, wherever you're watching ...