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Presidential Race Crunch Time; Iraqi Forces Now Fighting inside Mosul; California Has Republican Dead Zones; Park's Office Rocked by Alleged Corruption Scandal; Police Bust Pakistan Organ Trafficking Ring; Donald Trump or Bust for Many of His Supporters. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired November 4, 2016 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:00:10] JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles.

Ahead this hour --

Head to head rallies as Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton and their surrogates hit the battleground states, trading insults and spending millions on negative ads as the race for the White House enters crunch time.

Fighting street by street, Iraqi Special Forces are in Mosul. The fierce urban warfare is now just getting started.

And developing news out of South Korea, a tearful president apologizes again for a growing political scandal.

Hello, everybody -- great to have you with us. I'm John Vause. The first hour of NEWSROOM L.A. starts right now.

U.S. presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump both held campaign rallies a few hours ago in North Carolina, a crucial battleground state. Clinton has a slim lead there but Trump cannot afford to lose those 15 electrical votes.

They each spent the day on the attack making the case why their opponent should not be president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Under the failed leadership of Hillary -- look, talk about leadership, what leadership? I don't want to use the word in the same sentence.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I've said many times he has shown us who he is. Now it is up to us to decide who we are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Nationally the race remains tight. In CNN's average of polls, Clinton is edging Trump by just four points. Joining me now for more on this -- Eric Bauman, the vice chairman of the California Democratic Party and CNN political commentator Lanhee Chen who is in Malibu, California; Lanhee worked for Mitt Romney, the Republican in the 2012 campaign. Guys -- thank you for being with us.

Ok. For the Trump campaign the message now seems to be if Hillary Clinton is elected she will not be able to govern. This is Mr. Trump just a few hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: She lied to the FBI and she lied to the American people many, many times. Remember, she lied 39 times -- I don't recall, I don't recall. Well, those are all lies because she recalled every one of them.

These are sad events for our country. A high-ranking government official has been caught selling her public office, threatening national security and engaging in a massive criminal cover-up. If she were to win, it would create unprecedented constitutional crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Lanhee, first to you, Trump and his surrogates are also talking about impeachment. They're reminding voters of Bill Clinton's impeachment during the 1990s. Is this a message, at this point in the campaign which you think will resonate with moderate Republicans and Independents?

LANHEE CHEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'm not sure that it's really aimed at moderate Republicans and Independents at this point -- John. It sounds to me at least like it's a clarion call for those who support Donald Trump and potentially those maybe on the wings of the Republican Party.

Look, I think if he were really focused on a message that would resonate with Independents he would be laying out a governing agenda, trying to strike maybe a more conciliatory tone.

But ultimately this is not Donald Trump. This is not who he is. It's not in his nature to be conciliatory or to talk about governing in that way. So it isn't surprising this is part of his closing argument.

Usually campaigns have mapped out a closing argument. I don't know if this was intentionally part of their closing argument or just something that Donald Trump feels like talking about today.

VAUSE: Eric -- do you think this is all part of just getting out the base?

ERIC BAUMAN, CALIFORNIA DEMOCRATIC PARTY: I think they are so desperate to try to shore up their angry base that this rhetoric is all designed towards them. There is nothing aspirational whatsoever about anything that he says. There's nothing motivational about anything that he says. And quite frankly I think America at large has had enough of this kind of angry, hateful talk.

VAUSE: Ok. Well, the Clinton campaign is trying to keep the focus on Donald Trump especially the issue of his temperament.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: If Donald Trump were to win this election we would have a commander in chief who is completely out of his depth and whose ideas are incredibly dangerous; someone who wants more countries to have nuclear weapons and could easily insult a foreign leader and start a real war instead of just a Twitter war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: And at this point -- Trump, very quick to fire back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: She always talks about me. See what I have is a winning temperament. I have a winning temperament. Hillary is an unstable person. I think she has probably spent $500 million on phony ads.

[00:05:05] Best thing I have is my temperament. We know how to win. We know how to win. Got to know why you want to win, too. She has no idea. And she doesn't win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: This seems like the, you know, "I'm rubber, you're glue" argument from Donald Trump. But at this point it does seem that they're just trading insults.

BAUMAN: Well, first of all, let's be clear. Secretary Clinton has laid out an agenda all along that actually talks about what she wants to do as president. About how she will lift Americans up and how she will do things.

But when you deal with Donald Trump it's like a little boy who stomps his feet and no matter what gets said about him he can only respond in, as you say, "I'm rubber, you're glue" kind of way.

But here's the reality. He can say all of those things he wants about her but there's a reason why bipartisan foreign policy experts from both Democratic and Republican administrations have written letters and signed letters and said he cannot become the President of the United States, he cannot have the nuclear button in his hand because he is so dangerous.

VAUSE: Lanhee to you, you know, do you see a problem for the Democrat campaign, to the Clintons if they just basically get into this slinging match with Trump?

CHEN: Well, I think it's very telling, you know, she obviously has determined that the bulk of her closing argument now in these last four or five days needs to be a negative message against Donald Trump. It needs to be essentially to disqualify him. She has moved away from any pretense of talking about whatever her plan for governing might be. She has basically decided, or her advisers have decided for her, that the only way she's going to be able to get across the finish line is to completely and thoroughly disqualify him.

And look, that is a strategy. It's not the most optimistic strategy but it's the one that they're employing probably because it's the one they think will work.

For Trump's part this is classic Donald Trump. We've seen this all along. He tends to not be able to let these things slide. He will defend himself sometimes in ways that may appear childish. But ultimately this is his persona. This is who he is.

VAUSE: Ok. Well, we also had Melania Trump out on the campaign, giving her first campaign speech since the convention. She wants everyone to know that Donald Trump has a heart.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELANIA TRUMP, WIFE OF DONALD TRUMP: Every time my husband learned of a factory closing in Ohio or North Carolina or here in Pennsylvania, I saw him get very upset. He could see what was happening. He saw the problems. And he always talked about how he could fix them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Eric, no disrespect to Mrs. Trump, but you buying it?

BAUMAN: Look, if he cared about American workers his shirts would be made in America, not Mexico. His hats would be made in America, not China. His ties would be made in America, not Indonesia.

Donald Trump has done nothing whatsoever to ever stand up for American workers. In fact, he has chosen not to pay them. He's chosen to bankrupt his businesses in order to maintain his millionaire status.

VAUSE: Ok.

BAUMAN: That does not tell me that he's somebody who cares about working men and women.

VAUSE: Very quick get back to another part of Melania's speech because she said the focus would be issues as first lady on bullying and social media. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

M. TRUMP: We have to find a better way to talk to each other, to disagree with each other, to respect each other. We must find better ways to honor and support the basic goodness of our children, especially in social media.

(END VIDEO CLIP) VAUSE: And Lanhee, the call went up everywhere, "Have you met your husband?" Did anybody in the Trump campaign think that maybe this was not a good idea given her husband's, you know, past history?

CHEN: Well, look, I think that at this point in the campaign, it's pretty clear that Donald Trump and his campaign know that they have an issue with female voters. And so obviously the effort to get his wife out there is to speak directly to that demographic.

I don't think it hurts in any way to have her out there. I think that she does a credible job for him. I think the challenge is obviously the picture she's painting seems very dissonant from the one the American people have seen for these many months. And so I think it will be interesting to see but ultimately the strategy of deploying her is clearly to address one of the weaknesses their campaign believes that he has in his voting bloc leading up to Election Day.

VAUSE: Ok. We'll leave it there because -- we've got a lot to get to. We'll get to it next hour, including we'll take a closer look at the early voting numbers. What they mean for both sides in this campaign.

Lanhee Chen and Eric Bauman -- thanks for being with us. Appreciate it.

CHEN: Thanks -- John.

VAUSE: Now to the biggest breakthrough yet in the battle for Mosul. For the first time in two and a half years Iraqi forces are inside the ISIS-held city fighting the militants. The Iraqi army stormed in from the east on Thursday. This advance is expected to set off the fiercest fighting yet.

[00:10:02] A U.S. military official is addressing the release of a new audio message, purportedly from Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi. The colonel says that message showed the ISIS leader is losing control of his fighters and his ability to communicate directly with them.

CNN's Michael Holmes is following the battle lines as the Iraqi army hunts down ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: For the first time in more than two years, Iraqi forces back inside their nation's second biggest city, Mosul. Troops pushing into the neighborhood of Al Intisar on the eastern edge of the city on Thursday -- fighting block by block, meeting fierce resistance from ISIS militants including sniper fire and car bombs being used to hamper the advance.

The military said its forces were trying to open a corridor for civilians but it was unclear whether the ferocity of the battle would allow that to happen.

In another area, on the eastern edge of the city however, civilians were getting out of areas like Gogjali after enduring nights of fighting. They told of watching ISIS fighters plant roadside bombs in their front yards and placing snipers on their rooftops.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The situation is tragic. There are families that are besieged and under fire until now. We were besieged for two days hiding in our basement. The children have not eaten for two days.

HOLMES: Thursday they walked for hours in their hundreds -- men, women, and children -- Iraqi forces meeting them and screening them, several taken away for suspected ISIS membership after locals pointed them out to troops. The stories of ISIS brutality -- endless.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They killed many people and kidnapped those whom they suspected of anything. Even the people who have done nothing were taken and we have no idea what happened to them.

HOLMES: The others bussed here, Hazar camp (ph), a United Nations run facility like so many being set up around Mosul in anticipation of perhaps tens of thousands of displaced people as the fight for the city goes on.

To the west of Mosul, Shia-led paramilitaries managed to cut the main road between Mosul and the Syrian border, severing a vital exit route for anyone trying to flee to Syria, particularly ISIS fighters.

(on camera): Is has had two years to prepare its defenses in Mosul and while the fight to retake the city has now officially begun it will be a long and bloody one and a terrifying ordeal for the many civilians still trapped inside.

Michael Holmes, CNN -- Erbil, northern Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: CNN military analyst, Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona joins us now for more on this.

So Colonel -- with that road to the Mosul now cut off, will ISIS leaders have any other escape routes to Syria?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: They might try and sneak out on some of the back roads but that was the main escape route and this was part of the original Iraqi plan. They were going to cut that off before they mounted the assault into the city. They didn't get quite there when the fighting began 18 days ago but they've done it now. That's a good move. And now ISIS is pretty much trapped in the city.

And we're seeing air power starting to push them in toward the center of the city. And today, the coalition dropped one of the major bridges which is making it more difficult to move people back and forth around the city.

So the Iraqis are following the plan. They're going slow. They're going methodically. And as Michael pointed out, you know, they've got to address this burgeoning civilian refugee problem. VAUSE: There is also the issue of civilians, about a million of them

trapped in Mosul as they move in for this door to door fighting, this urban combat. How careful, how methodical do those Iraqi forces have to be, especially with the prospect that those civilians could be used as human shields?

FRANCONA: Well, they're being used as human shields, as you say. That's a big problem. So they've got to go very slow and, of course, they are being slowed down by all these obstacles, these mine fields, the roadside bombs, the suicide bombers.

So it's just making it go slow but the Iraqis planned for this. They knew this was going to happen. The problem is, they do this in a manner that they respect the civilians that are there. We are getting a lot of reports of a lot of revenge arrests and people are complaining that they are taking away people that had nothing to do with ISIS.

You know, the Iraqis have to do this correctly because remember the Iraqi's army is regarded primarily as a Shia force and they're liberating a Sunni town.

VAUSE: And with that in mind, the political side of this appears that at least there's no agreement in place to try and reconcile the differences between the Sunnis and the Shiites -- one of the concerns with the politics lagging so far behind the military operation.

FRANCONA: And that's -- that's going to be a problem. You know, once the city is taken and we know that at some point Mosul will be cleared of ISIS and then now they've got to begin the political rebuilding.

And it's not just the Sunnis and the Shia, you have the other part of the equation, there is the Kurds because the Kurds want to control that area up there and now they've let the Iraqi army, you know, tens of thousands of them into that area.

[00:15:09] Is the Iraqi army going to leave? Are the Kurds going to take over? What is going to be the political status of Mosul when this is all over?

VAUSE: Ok. Colonel -- thank you very much. Colonel Rick Francona with some analysis and some late information there for us -- we appreciate it. Thank you -- sir.

Still to come here -- will a Clinton victory bring chaos? Some hardcore Trump supporters vow unrest if the Trump train derails on election night.

Also ahead -- why some voters in California have the option of picking a Democrat or a Democrat.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, it certainly is a beautiful time of the year to take a stroll across Central Park in New York City. Take a look at this fantastic shot taken near the Columbus Circle region. You can start to see the shades of orange, red and even some browns mixed in together across Central Park and beautiful skyscrapers in the background. Fall colors really starting to peak across New England as we speak.

Here's a look at the forecast radar across the country. We have rain showers and higher elevation snowfall across the four corners region; still active across the Pacific Northwest.

Partly cloudy skies for the Californian coast, otherwise we stay dry and lots of sunshine for the upper Midwest and into New England. Maybe a few showers but that will really quickly move on. We have a few showers anticipated across the Atlantic seaboard of Florida.

Daytime highs near Atlanta for the start of the early weekend, 26 degrees but we cool off from then. 22 degrees if you are located near Denver. Look at the temperatures sliding through the course of the weekend and into next week across the East Coast; temperatures in the middle teens for New York City.

Havana, Cuba 28 degrees; Kingston, Jamaica, 31; San Juan Puerto Rico in the upper 20s, showers and thunderstorms for you; still very wet for Rio and much of Brazil; Bogota expecting a high of 18.

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VAUSE: One of the weirdest things in an already weird election is happening right here in California. For almost a million voters in Los Angeles County apart from the names Donald Trump and Mike Pence there will be no other Republicans to vote for -- not one, not one Republican running down ballot. According to the "Los Angeles Times" it's a Republican dead zone spanning parts of five districts, five state assembly districts and one state senate district.

[00:20:02] In the race for the U.S. Senate voters can choose either Democrat Camilla Harris or Democrat Loretta Sanchez. California has always been a Democrat stronghold but this year many voters will only get a choice of either Democrat A or Democrat B.

Congresswoman Karen Bass, a Democrat from California joins us now to explain how all this happened and what this actually means for the election. Congresswoman -- thank you for coming in.

REP. KAREN BASS (D), CALIFORNIA: Thank you for having me on.

VAUSE: I guess we have to go back what, about six years?

BASS: Yes, that's right.

VAUSE: When California voters --

BASS: Exactly six years.

VAUSE: -- on this change to the primaries. What happened?

BASS: Well, the original idea was if you didn't choose by party then that would moderate the candidates. People wouldn't be so far to the left or so far to the right. But I actually think this has not worked at all. I think this whole process has been a windfall for political consultants and fundraisers because they get two bites at the apple.

VAUSE: Yes. Right.

BASS: So if this race had been resolved in the primary in June then there wouldn't have been a race in the fall.

VAUSE: Because under the changes it's essentially the top two vote winners --

BASS: Right.

VAUSE: -- get to go on to the general election.

BASS: Right. And because the overwhelming majority of voters in California are Democratic that's why for a statewide race it's primarily Democrats. It's also because one of our previous governors decided that he was going to have a ballot initiative that was very strongly anti-immigrant. And when he did that, he isolated the Republican Party in California and frankly the Republican Party has not recovered since.

VAUSE: So that's essentially explaining why there is just so little support in many parts of California for Republicans and why they don't want to hit the ballot because they won't get to vote, they won't win.

BASS: Well, absolutely. But it's also because of the demographic change in California so the majority of the voters are Democratic. Democratic registration far outnumbers Republican registration. That's the real reason.

VAUSE: Ok. If you are a Democrat I guess this is good news.

BASS: Yes, I am.

VAUSE: For Democrats, those who support the Democrats it's good news. Is it good for democracy though in the long run?

BASS: Well, I think it reflects our population. And so I do think that that's correct because that's what democracy is about, correct?

VAUSE: Ok, so you get to a point though where you only have a choice of Democrats. I mean if you look from a distance it's almost like, you know, being in China where you get to vote for the communist party or the communist party.

BASS: Well, we do have Republicans in California and we do have legislative seats and as a matter of fact in both houses of the legislature, the assembly and the senate, it's not supermajority Democratic. So there are plenty of Republicans in the state legislature and we also have plenty of Republicans in the house seats in congress.

VAUSE: And there are Republicans running in other parts of the state, we should say. BASS: Right -- exactly.

VAUSE: Nationally, one of the big problems for Republicans during this campaign has been trying to distance themselves from Donald Trump.

BASS: Right.

VAUSE: That would seem to be a rather acute problem especially here in California.

BASS: Right. That's right.

VAUSE: So how will they be tagged with Donald Trump and what do you think will be the end result of that?

BASS: Well, I don't think that they can really distance themselves. And one of the things that I know from serving in the house is if on a daily basis I hear them promote the same policies that Donald Trump is promoting on the presidential stage now that that looks so bad nationally then you can't come here and then try to separate yourself and say well, actually I'm not anti-immigration when that has been your votes and that's been what you've been doing in congress for all these years.

VAUSE: Well, the situation right now, the latest polling has come out and Hillary Clinton is I think is up by 20 points in California. It was 26 points just a week or so ago. Obviously the state will still go for Hillary Clinton --

BASS: Right.

VAUSE: -- in the election but it will have an impact on the overall national vote if she doesn't have a big win here.

BASS: Right. Well, it will. But I do think that you will see overwhelmingly people will turn out and support Hillary Clinton and what my hope is, of course, is that that will enable us to win some additional seats in the house of representatives right here in California.

VAUSE: And, of course, the senate is up for grabs and they have a guaranteed Democrat heading to the senate but that's not the situation elsewhere in the country. The Senate is very much in play this year.

BASS: Right. Exactly.

VAUSE: Ok. And so as far as, you know, moving forward when you look from November 8 if there is a Clinton administration, if she doesn't have the senate, if she doesn't have the house --

BASS: Right.

VAUSE: -- is this country now heading into gridlock again?

BASS: Well, I believe so. And I'm very concerned about that because many of my Republican colleagues have already said that they are lining up the investigations that they're going to do of her and I think that that's just terrible. That's an incredible way. We have already been through this for eight years and to imagine four more years of the same type of hostile environment, I don't think that serves our country at all.

VAUSE: Ok. Congresswoman -- thank you for coming in.

BASS: Thank you. Thank you for having me on.

VAUSE: Thank you.

And we'll take a short break here.

When we come, there is developing news out of South Korea. A tearful president has gone on national television to apologize again for a political scandal and she is now taking it a step further this time.

Also, a raid by Pakistani police has led to a disturbing find -- a harsh reminder of that country's problem with illegal organ trade.

[00:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM from Los Angeles.

I'm John Vause with the headlines this hour.

Iraqi forces are fighting ISIS militants inside Mosul for the first time in more than two years. The troops stormed in from the east on Thursday. Hundreds of civilians have fled the city but more than one million civilians are estimated to be still inside Mosul.

Just days before the U.S. presidential election polling showing the race between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton continues to tighten. Clinton has just a four-point lead in CNN's average of national polls. They both campaigned in North Carolina a few hours ago for the state's crucial 15 electoral votes.

British Prime Minister Theresa May says she still plans to set the formal process for leaving the E.U. into motion this March. Britain's high court gummed up the works by ruling that May's government must consult parliament before invoking Article 50 triggering the departure. A Supreme Court appeal is set for December.

Turkish authorities detained 11 members of the country's main pro- Kurdish opposition party. The arrests were made during raids on Thursday night and are in connection to a terror investigation. The Turkish government accuses the party of having links with the Kurdish militant group, the PKK.

South Korea's leader, Park Geun-Hye says she will cooperate with investigators in a corruption scandal that is engulfing her administration. The president's friend, Choi Soon-sil was arrested and charged Thursday with abuse of power and attempted fraud for meddling in state affairs. Park says she apologizes for the scandal and will accept the outcome of the investigation.

[00:30:04] Paula Hancocks is following this story. She joins us now live from Seoul. Paula -- under the South Korean constitution the President cannot be prosecuted while in office. Even so, could this scandal force her to resign?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's certainly possible, John. I mean, at this point, her approval rating in this country according to "Gallup Korea" is five percent. Now that is the lowest of any South Korean president in history. So certainly she is being slammed publicly for this scandal.

Now, she is hoping, probably, that this second apology, that this agreement that she would be part of the investigation if necessary is going to go some way to trying to restore that public trust in her.

Let's listen to some of what she said this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PARK GEUN-HYE, SOUTH KOREAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I thought I was improving the economy and the lives of the people. But in this process, a certain individual has committed corruption for personal gain. Everything is my fault and my mistake and I feel huge responsibility for this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANCOCKS: Certainly distancing herself from her confidante there, really putting the blame on her and saying that it was because she didn't have family. She cut ties with family and was very lonely. So she lowered her guard and that's why she decided to trust this individual.

John?

VAUSE: The president has also had to deny rumors that she was part of a cult?

HANCOCKS: Yes, this is something you do not hear a president of a country saying to her people. She said I am not part of a cult despite the rumors you may have heard. Also saying there have not been shamanistic rituals in the presidential palace. Now this sounds bizarre and it is bizarre.

This is basically because the father of this confidante started a cult-like religion back in the '70s and is believed to have mentored President Park Geun-hye when she was in her 20s. So the family has had an long influence on Park Geun-hye. And as you can imagine the rumors and speculation in this country are in some cases out of control.

So the president felt she had to say I'm not part of a cult. But, of course, any president having to say that, you can just see how deep the scandal is that she is embroiled in.

John?

VAUSE: And it is incredible to think that just four years ago, she made history by becoming South Korea's first female leader. This is an incredible fall from grace.

HANCOCKS: Absolutely. And she also campaigned an absolute anti- corruption ticket. She said she was going to clean up South Korean politics. Now she is standing there, having to apologize, saying she feels deeply sorry. She said her heart is breaking for what has happened, but she is having to apologize for something that she said she was going to make sure would not happen under her administration.

So certainly it's deeply embarrassing for the president, but clearly she'll be hoping that with this second apology that some of the public at least will be accepting that apology. But we've seen tens of thousands of people out on the streets this weekend, we're expecting more

Next weekend we're expecting up to 100,000 with the labor unions getting involved as well. So it's difficult to see where this story will end.

John?

VAUSE: Hard to see the off ramp for her at this point, but we'll continue to follow the story.

Paula Hancocks live this hour in Seoul. Thank you.

Pakistani police have busted a kidney trafficking ring which actually involves surgeons. They rescued about 20 victims last month in the city of Rawalpindi just outside the capital. They may have been held for months.

CNN has reported on organ trafficking in the region for years. These are scenes from part of a story. Well, some people sell their organs voluntarily.

National Public Radio reported that the people in the Rawalpindi case were being held apparently to force them to give up their organs.

For more on this case and the issue of organ trafficking, I'm joined now by Dr. Jeremy Chapman. He's a prominent campaigner against the trade -- the illegal trade of organs. He's also had (INAUDIBLE) hospital in Sydney.

Doctor, thank you for being with us. You know, this story from Pakistan seems to bring together the exploitation of the weak and the vulnerable by the powerful and the corrupt.

DR. JEREMY CHAPMAN, CLINICAL PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF SYDNEY: Yes that about sums up the organ trade. It's a good summary. The desperation of patients and the desperation of the poor are put together by people who want to make some money.

This case is sad. It's not the worst case out of Pakistan, sadly. In this instance, 24 people were told that they could come to Rawalpindi to earn some money, get a job. In order to do that, they needed travel permits to get Rawalpindi. And I've understood that there was a scam whereby they went to a high court garden and thought that in the court garden, they were signing official documents under an official of the court which they swore they needed travel to allow them to go to Rawalpindi to donate a kidney to their relative.

That document, which they probably didn't understand was then used for their travel permit. They were brought to Rawalpindi. They were stuck in a room and locked there until found by the police.

It's not the worst scam. As I said, I think the worst one I've heard of is somebody set up a private clinic in a very poor area. Any time they decided that the poor patient needed an operation, they said you need an operation. Can't afford it. Well I do know a hospital, and if you give them a kidney, they will do the operation for you for free.

(CROSSTALK)

VAUSE: Right. So Pakistan seems to have cornered the market on the illegal sale of kidneys in particular. Why is that?

CHAPMAN: Well, unfortunately, they haven't cornered the market. Egypt is terrible at the moment. Sri Lanka is bad. Parts of India are bad. Bangladesh is bad. China remains on our watch list. Mexico, there are others.

Pakistan was good for about three or four years. There was a government action to stop this trade about five years ago and it did stop and with government action most of the trade closed down. Patients were not traveling there. What's happened now is that the white boys, the guys who want to get rich and put another airplane engine on their airplane have gone to make some money and decided that the government is going to let them do it.

VAUSE: I just want to give you the flip side of the argument, though. Because if you are a parent and you have money, you have a child that needs a kidney, it may not be right but some people will see that they have to do whatever they can to save that child's life.

So how do you address that part of the equation?

CHAPMAN: Yes, sure, and that's a point I made that there is desperation on the part of the parent -- the patient as well as on the part of the donors. So strongly advise you against getting a dodgy kidney from somebody with infectious disease in a country where the surgery is substandard and your risks of death are around 20 percent. It's really not a good idea.

Clearly, we have to attend to the needs for organ donation in every country in the world and to encourage appropriate organ donation. That includes the United States. That includes Australia. We need proper organ donation programs and they're just as important to stopping this illegal trade. But risking your child in a highly vulnerable environment is simply crazy and people need to be counselled carefully to avoid what they see as an illusionary opportunity. It is just an illusion.

VAUSE: OK. Dr. Chapman, we'll leave it there, but thank you so much for being with us. It's such a sad story.

CHAPMAN: It is indeed. Good to talk to you.

VAUSE: Thank you, sir.

Still to come here, Trump or bust. Will his supporters revolt or retreat if Donald loses the election?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: They are loud and proud. Tens of thousands of Americans, loyal followers of Donald Trump, but what happens if his campaign derails and he loses on Tuesday?

We've sent Sunlen Serfaty to find out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With just days until Election Day, Donald Trump supporters are confronting a tough question. What happens if he loses?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Attack, attack, attack! We will never accept defeat!

SERFATY: The Republican nominee has sown doubts about the integrity of the electoral process.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It's a rigged system, folks.

SERFATY: Fueling fears of a dishonest democracy.

TRUMP: Hillary's corruption is a threat to democracy.

SERFATY: And he has refused to say that he would accept the results of the election.

TRUMP: I'll keep you in suspense.

SERFATY: And it's not just the candidate. A small but vocal group of high profile Trump supporters are firing verbal warning shots steeped in violent imagery of post election unrest from sheriffs --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is pitch fork and torches time in America.

SERFATY: To former congressmen.

JOE WALSH, FORMER U.S. HOUSE REPUBLICAN: It's time to boycott, picket, maybe even stop paying taxes.

SERFATY: And conservative radio hosts.

WAYNE ALLYN ROOT, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: We're coming to tear it down! We're coming to rip it up! We're coming to kick your ass!

SERFATY: The incendiary rhetoric is being echoed now by some Trump supporters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it actually happened, are you saying that we can't? Isn't that what D.C. is for? It's to breathe our frustration.

SERFATY: This man telling the "Wall Street Journal," he would take matters into his own hands if Clinton is elected.

DAN BOWMAN, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: There will probably be a movement where we will go and take them out of power.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It sounds like you are saying that it would acceptable to assassinate a president.

BOWMAN: If she is corrupt, why should she be able to stay in office?

SERFATY: So has this historical election really come down to win, lose or draw? None at all says Wayne Root, who insists his fiery speeches before Trump rallies aren't meant as a literal call to arms.

ROOT: Nobody is going to Washington to actually burn it down. No one is going to actually tear it down, but I think you can go and fire a lot of people.

SERFATY: On the campaign trail, most Trump loyalists say they will be much more likely to retreat from the political process than to riot against it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll be very upset. I'll cry and I probably will never vote again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I may not stay living in the U.S., but I'll accept the results. I'd rather leave the country than get involved in the revolution.

SERFATY: And nearly all Trump supporters say they will stick with him win or lose, whatever his next steps might be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd like to see him run again in 2020. I think he could do something.

SERFATY: Sunlen Serfaty, CNN, Concord, North Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Five days.

Thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause. "World Sport" is up next. You're watching CNN.

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