Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

Debate Fallout; Will Trump Accept Election Loss?. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired October 21, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:45]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we roll along, hour two. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.

Less than 24 hours for refusing to say he would absolutely accept the results of the election, Donald Trump doing a reversal, perhaps trying to undo the damage his debate comments inflicted. You may have seen him at the debate saying -- quote -- "I will keep you in suspense" as to whether or not he would ultimately accept that final vote, yet here was Donald Trump just an hour ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would like to promise and pledge to all of my voters and supporters and to all of the people of the United States that I will totally accept the results of this great and historic presidential election...

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: ... if I win.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: Of course, I would accept a clear election result, but I would also reserve my fight to contest or file a legal challenge in the case of a questionable result.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: Right?

And always I will follow and abide by all of the rules and traditions of all of the many candidates who have come before me, always.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Will those words ease the concerns of people like, say, Republican Senator John McCain, who is fighting to hold on to that Senate seat in Arizona?

In a speech today in Ohio, he released a statement saying -- quote -- "I didn't like the outcome of the 2008 election, but I had a duty to concede and so I did so without reluctance. A concession isn't just an exercise in graciousness. It's an act of respect for the will of the American people, a respect that is every American leader's first responsibility."

Joining me now, CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger, associate editor and columnist for RealClearPolitics A.B. Stoddard and senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny.

Great to have all of you.

And, Gloria, I was watching you postgame last night and in first with that suspense line from Donald Trump, you said it. I think you said it perfectly. It sounds like a game, sounds like a reality TV producer would say, not something that the man who wants to become the leader of the free world would say.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

And it's about leadership and it's about taking responsibility for the outcome, no matter what it is. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. And I think Donald Trump today, Brooke, tried to clean it up a little bit because first he made a joke about it. And he said, I will accept the outcome if I win, but he also said I reserve the right to contest an election if the results are too close.

Well, what happens in most states is that the secretaries of state have a threshold, and if it's less than that certain number, in the state of Florida in the year 2000, for example, it was less than -- it was a half-a-percent. And if it's within that range as deemed by the secretary of state, then there's an automatic recount. You don't have to file a legal challenge. You don't have to contest.

The state will actually do it for you because the state wants to make sure that the results are accurate.

BALDWIN: But, so, on that, Jeff Zeleny, hearing Kellyanne Conway with Dana Bash, Gloria mentioned 2000 and the automatic recount. That was the Florida law because it was so close. I don't really think it's a fair comparison what happened in 2000 and what we're watching today. Do you agree?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: It's not a fair comparison at all.

And if you listen to Donald Trump say it, he said Al Gore contested. As all of us who covered the 2000 recount...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: He called Bush.

ZELENY: As Gloria knows, it's Bush v. Gore.

James Baker and the Bush team was the first one to file legal action. But, look, it's an entirely different situation. In the run-up to the 2000 campaign, there was no suggestion from Al Gore or George W. Bush the election would be rigged. That's why so many Republicans were so alarmed by this last night,

Brooke. I can't even remember something that has set off John McCain as much, at least recently, as this.

[15:05:03]

He said he conceded in 2008 because it was his duty as an American. And we all remember that speech, as Gloria and I were talking about earlier. It was a gracious concession speech in every way. So, I think that this is just one way that Donald Trump got in his own way here in what was otherwise actually a pretty good debate for him.

He was making his point, perhaps not enough to turn the tide here, but an entirely different situation than 2000.

BALDWIN: All right, let me move off that and, A.B., on women. How do you think Donald Trump did with women watching last night?

A.B. STODDARD, REALCLEARPOLITICS: Well, I don't think -- first of all, he talked about the allegations against him as being debunked. And they haven't been debunked. It's his word against theirs.

He put them all in the same collective group of people he doesn't know and he thinks that they're -- I guess they have been paid or hired by the Clinton campaign. That was his theory here. Or they want to be famous for 10 minutes and that's why they're doing it. So I don't think that was a very successful way to grow his vote.

But Donald Trump has not been trying to grow his vote for weeks. He's really focused on his enthusiastic supporters. And he's talking about conspiracy theories and this cabal of international banks and Paul Ryan and the media and Hillary trying to steal the election from him and Mexican billionaires and stuff.

But he's really not trying to make outreach and inroads with voters who he could bring into the fold to get to a win on November 8.

So, last night, calling her a nasty woman and saying those allegations have been debunked was just more of the same. He wasn't reaching out to other people that he needs to bring in to his tent.

BALDWIN: He said no one respects women more than me, no one. And then he calls Hillary Clinton a nasty woman.

Gloria, bigger picture, do you think that one line will haunt him?

BORGER: I think, yes, it wasn't a great line. I think also the notion where he said, I didn't even apologize to my wife because I had nothing to apologize for, when it came to all of those allegations against him, I think -- you know, I think that's something women will listen to and maybe shake their heads about.

If he is trying to appeal to moderate suburban Republican women who don't like Hillary Clinton and are trying -- sort of scratching their heads, thinking, all right, I don't know, I don't like her, I don't really want to vote for her, and if he's trying to reach out to them, which, as A.B. points out, he hasn't doing a lot of lately, this wasn't the way to do it, particularly since Hillary Clinton's responses on the question of women, Hillary Clinton's discussion of the question on abortion, I thought, was quite effective for her base.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Do you think it's fair, though, Gloria, that Hillary Clinton did not fully answer? Because of Trump, she didn't fully answer some of the questions.

BORGER: She didn't answer a lot of the questions. I mean, she got asked a question about WikiLeaks, and then she turned it to the Russian hacking, which is what they always do.

She never actually answered a question on WikiLeaks. You could argue it was up to Trump to say, wait a minute, she needs to answer the question about WikiLeaks. She kind of just deflected it. So I think that she's pretty good at deflecting, and he's not very good at going back at her at it and saying, wait a minute, you didn't follow up.

BALDWIN: You didn't answer the question, right, right.

(CROSSTALK)

ZELENY: Brooke, he even interrupted her on the Clinton Foundation. She was kind of having a hard time, I thought, as I was watching it, answering some questions about the Clinton Foundation.

He interrupted and sort of gave her a bit of a lifeline there. I'm sure that wasn't his intent, but that's what happened. Then he pivoted to his own foundation, which has problems of its own here. Just in terms of -- we have said this a lot, but it's true. Practice actually works.

This is an example where Donald Trump has defied sort of what conventional campaigns are like. But these debates are the most conventional aspect of a campaign, and it just didn't work well for him after we look at all three debates because he didn't prepare for them and they're not like his rallies, where he spends so much time there.

BALDWIN: Let me just play one more piece of sound, A.B., the question to you. Just to set it up, this is Trump talking about Mosul and the Iraq government and the Clinton campaign. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: But you know who the big winner in Mosul is going to be after we eventually get it? And the only reason they did it is because she's running for the office of president and they want to look tough. They want to look good. He violated the red line in the sand, and he made so many mistakes, made all mistakes.

[15:10:02]

That's why we have the great migration. But she wanted to look good for the election. So they're going in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: A.B., what?

STODDARD: And what is your question, Brooke?

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: File that under alternate universe category?

STODDARD: That was definitely -- I remember being on Twitter at the time of that answer. And that definitely was an eyebrow-raiser and a head-scratcher for some people who couldn't figure out what he was saying.

But, look, I think that he believes that the Iraq War vote of Hillary Clinton's is a weak spot for her. He believes that he can continue to say that he always opposed the Iraq War and that he believed that, once in, we had to stay, even though in 2007 he said it's time to pull out and call it a victory.

There's obviously all this conflicting information about his accounts of this over the years. But he believes -- that he's making a case that the Obama administration is doing this to make Hillary look good. And I don't think he gained points at that moment.

And I think that he had definitely his best debate, I want to say, of all three, and he did some preparation. But he does have a way of stepping on his own message.

BALDWIN: A.B., Gloria, Jeff, thank you.

To Jeff's point about -- and A.B. there on preparation for debate, Hillary Clinton, she was prepared. She was prepared for Donald Trump to bring out his rigged election claim. Here you go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There was even a time when he didn't get an Emmy for his TV program three years in a row and he started tweeting that the Emmys were rigged against him.

TRUMP: Should have gotten it.

(LAUGHTER)

CLINTON: This is -- this is a mind-set. This is how Donald thinks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That kind of conflict what had so many people watching.

Our senior media correspondent, Brian Stelter, has a look at the ratings.

Brian Stelter, what did you find?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Brooke.

Yes, the ratings are just in for last night's debate and once again we are seeing overwhelming interest in this presidential election cycle, the likes of which TV executives have not seen in years. To put it into perspective for you, the final debate of 2008, Obama/McCain, reached about 56 million viewers.

The final debate in 2012 between Obama and Romney reached about 59 million viewers. Well, the number for last night, according to Nielsen, is north of 70 million viewers. Now, that defies all the trends in TV. We're all watching our own things nowadays. The audience is fracturing into lots of little pieces, but that's not the case with these debates.

They have reached record audiences. The first debate, of course, the first Trump-Clinton face-off, reached 84 million viewers. So this debate couldn't quite top that, but it did beat the numbers for the town hall last week.

Bottom line here is that there is intense and of course a lot of anxiety about this election. It's the highest-rated drama on TV right now. And, of course, there's only one big TV event left, and that's the ultimate finale. That's election night, less than three weeks from tonight -- Brooke, back to you.

BALDWIN: Brian, thank you.

Coming up next, we will talk body language, including the refusal to shake hands both before and after. Listen, it matters. It sets the tone.

Also ahead, tonight, Trump and Clinton dine together, have you heard about that, and by tradition will roast one another with jokes. But for two people who couldn't even like shake hands to have to share a stage, how is that going to go down?

Let's talk about that with some comedy writers coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:43]

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

A debate, it's not just an exchange, we hope, of policies and substance and ideals, but it's also a performance. And body language plays a key role in how those messages are received.

Take, for example, what happened at the beginning of the debate. Both candidates walked onto the stage, here you go, waving hello, hello to the audience, say hello to the moderator, but no handshake, no head nods. You see this? They don't even walk anywhere near each other. They go straight behind the podium. And then even at the end, no handshake at all, unless it was with the

moderator. In fact, Donald Trump stood at his podium until Clinton then ultimately walked off the stage.

This was a major break from debate protocol, but it matters, as I mentioned a moment ago, because it just sets the tone, the decorum for a debate.

Joining me now, body language expert Patti Wood.

Patti Wood, good to see you again.

PATTI WOOD, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Nice to be on the show.

BALDWIN: OK, so no handshake, what's up with that?

WOOD: Actually, it's breaking a rule. A handshake actually establish rapport and symbolically says, we're friends, but now the game begins.

BALDWIN: Yes.

WOOD: But, in the last debate, Trump broke those rules by having the women on the show before the debate began. So he changed when the game began, so, of course, they couldn't shake hands. Everything changed.

BALDWIN: They couldn't shake hands. Even according to the Clinton campaign, they didn't want to have a moment where the family members shook hands, for fear of a stunt from the Trump side. So, there was that. That's what set up the debate.

Then you go into the moments of the debate. I want to play some sound. This is when Hillary Clinton dropped -- she dropped an insult. And I want everyone to watch Donald Trump's face.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Well, that's because he'd rather have a puppet as president of the United States.

TRUMP: No puppet. No puppet.

CLINTON: And it's pretty clear...

TRUMP: You're the puppet.

CLINTON: It's pretty clear you won't admit...

TRUMP: No, you're the puppet.

CLINTON: ... that the Russians...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK, so other than Alec Baldwin watching and taking notes, what do you make no puppet, no puppet, how he... WOOD: Well, I think all of us saw -- did you see that sort of snarl come on the side of his face?

There's that distinction between the left and the right hemispheres, so the true feelings show on one side of the face. And he snarled. He was really angry, and he roared off that side.

[15:20:02]

BALDWIN: Hemispheres of the face, learn something new every day.

What about Hillary Clinton and that smile? I don't know if a lot of viewers think it's -- there is a question -- genuine. Go ahead.

WOOD: Let's talk about it, because I think her smile in the second debate, while she was being attacked, gave him permission to continue. And so I was actually advising...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But he couldn't see her.

WOOD: Well, still, the public is seeing it. And they're seeing that, oh, I can stay calm under pressure.

I preferred this debate where she actually got angry. I think it gave her much more power. It strengthened her voice considerably. And it made her gestures, which are sometimes off-time, that make her look unnatural, actually, they flowed last night. They actually significantly matched what she was saying and gave her much more sincerity.

BALDWIN: But just with the smile, you didn't think it -- you don't think it makes her look smug?

WOOD: I think it did previously. I think it did a couple of times last night, though she did open her mouth to smile, so there was a little true joy in the game that she was playing last night that I actually liked.

But, typically, it's a cover smile. That's what we have seen previously, and it's covering her true emotional state. And that makes her look insincere. It makes her look a little bit stuck up.

BALDWIN: All right, Patti Wood, body language expert, thank you so much.

WOOD: My pleasure.

BALDWIN: Next, Donald Trump says he will only accept the election results if they're clear. His campaign manager pointing to Bush/Gore, what happened in 2000, as an example of why. Is that really a fair comparison?

We are going to talk to two men who were part of the recount about whether this election could have a similar outcome or not at all? (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:26:35]

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN.

Donald Trump insisting the election is rigged before a single vote is counted, agitating a lot of people with his repudiation of America's democratic process. But just moments after he left the debate stage last night, his campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway, with our own Dana Bash evoked a piece of history that is now being used in Trump's defense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Do you remember 2000, when Al Gore contested the election? He actually retracted his concession to George W. Bush. He had called him...

(CROSSTALK)

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But that's an extraordinary experience.

CONWAY: That's right. So we have extraordinary experiences.

But you have to listen to everything he said. In fairness, he's talking about a rigged, corrupt system. Many Americans agree with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, let's rewind 16 years to America's contested 2000 election, when Al Gore won the popular vote, but lost the election by electoral votes, all thanks to the state of Florida.

It went before the Supreme Court, Gore forced to concede not once, but twice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let there be no doubt, while I strongly disagree the court's decision, I accept it. I know that many of my supporters are disappointed. I am, too, but our disappointment must be overcome by our love of country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, Al Cardenas, who was the chair of the Florida Republican Party back then, and here he is, after his state was called for Gore and then taken back.

You like that, Al? We pulled it out of the 2000 archives for you.

And also here, Larry Haas, former press secretary for Vice President Al Gore. Gentlemen, thank you so much for coming on.

I just -- I heard Kellyanne Conway last night. I just think it's really important to -- let's work in facts and what we know.

So, Al, you were in the room for much -- for some of the recounts. And I think it's important to just remind people it was the state law in Florida, right, that sort of meant that Al Gore would have to wait as the votes would be recounted. It wasn't Al Gore saying, no, I don't accept this.

AL CARDENAS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: That's right.

Listen, every state has either a mandatory or available-upon-demand recount process when the vote count is within half-a-point, sometimes a quarter-point, sometimes a full point, the point being that you have got relief. You have got -- and you can exhaust that relief. And most candidates who are within that margin of error want that relief to happen.

In a few instances, outcomes are changed. Most of the time, they're not. But people feel like the process has worked. And that' good for America. Listen, 10 years after the election, people in Florida were still telling me that we stole the election, but not the candidates.

The reason why I think folks are upset is because campaign strategists, spokespeople, volunteers, they feel the passion, they feel the pain, and they speak out of order. But if you're the potential leader of the free world, you have got a responsibility to preserve America's tradition of a peaceful transfer of power and authority within a legal system that works.

You just heard Al Gore. I thought he addressed it the way he should have.

BALDWIN: And, Larry, you were in the Al Gore inner circle then. And for people who say he didn't concede on election night, that's actually wrong. He made a phone call, didn't he?

LAWRENCE HAAS, FORMER GORE PRESS SECRETARY: He absolutely did. In fact, he made two phone calls.

Remember, he made the first phone call election night, and then Florida was reversed through later returns. And then he called back George Bush and said that, unfortunately, now it looks like we don't have a decided election.

But then, of course, once the court