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'The Art of the Deal' Co-Author Says Trump is Victimizer; John Podesta, Clinton Campaign Chair says he respects Sanders; Trump's Lawyer Says Trump Not Attracted to Accusers. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired October 19, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:30:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Trump campaign CEO was saying to me, Brooke, it's just an appetizer, this half-brother of president Obama. It sounded like he was drumming up the idea there would be others.

TONY SCHWARTZ, CO-AUTHOR, TRUMP'S "THE ART OF THE DEAL": To use a word Trump has in his tweets, sad. This is a sideshow, the notion that that's going to at advance his cause whatever it is utterly crazy.

BALDWIN: You don't think that will rattle her?

SCHWARTZ: No, I think actually it did rattle her the last time but I think she's a preparer and she will be way, way more ready for whatever comes tonight.

BALDWIN: When we think of the last go-round four years ago and Romney and Obama, Romney won the first won.

LANHEE CHEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BALDWIN: Obama fared well the second one and the third one does anyone remember? I'm just using that as an example for four years later. Tonight, what do you think -- how do you think this could go?

CHEN: Very different contest this time. I think more people will be watching.

BALDWIN: You think?

CHEN: Little bit. Little bit. More people will be watching this debate than last time but this is the last stand for Donald Trump. This is the last opportunity he has to make an impression on voters, and I think he has an opportunity here if he remains based on issues as well as prosecuting the attack against Hillary Clinton, not on her personal life or the personal life of Bill Clinton, but about what happened during her time as secretary of state and her record. But make no mistake, there's a very narrow path to victory for Donald Trump here.

BALDWIN: Knowing it is his last at-bat with tens of millions of people watching, how do you think he'll take it knowing him?

SCHWARTZ: First of all, I don't believe he thinks he'll win anymore. I think his whole focus now is on how he's going to deal with the loss.

BALDWIN: The Trump team would tell you otherwise.

SCHWARTZ: I understand, I'm telling you what I know about this man. I've known him longer than I've known most people on that team. What he's thinking about is how am I going to mobilize these people so I have my force so that I can, as I always have, declare victory even after a defeat. And I think what you'll see is you will see him play to his base as he has been doing the last three weeks and he won't make one move in the direction of those people he needs to actually win.

BALDWIN: Are you a Bruce Springsteen fan?

SCHWARTZ: I am, indeed.

BALDWIN: Who doesn't love the boss. He said -- Bruce Springsteen came out in an interview and said Trump will go nuclear, nuclear, if he loses. If he does lose come November 9, what does that look like?

SCHWARTZ: It's funny, at the very beginning when I said the prospect of Donald Trump as president was terrifying, I think the prospect of him losing is almost -- not quite -- but almost more terrifying. Because I think his need to build back his one sense of self-worth will make him willing to blow up democracy in any way that he can, meaning he'll dispute the election, he will try to get these folks to react in potentially violent ways.

I think in a deeply polarized country it's a scary, scary prospect. The day Trump loses -- and I do think he'll lose, I agree, the next stage of his trouble making will begin.

CHEN: He has to recognize too his brand is at stake. So he has 20 days left in the election but he has to realize if his brand is going to survive this election, he has to start doing some things, I think, to turn that element around, to turn that image around.

BALDWIN: I think it's too early to talk Trump brand but I have to go back to what Steve Bannon told me yesterday, they believe they will win. Tony?

SCHWARTZ: The brand and Donald Trump are dead. The brand is already dead. He's already getting way fewer people buying the products he sells and the brand will live with a small percentage.

BALDWIN: Tony Schwartz, Lanhee Chen, thank you.

Coming up next, take your corners, two Trump supporters and two Clinton supporters join me live with what they're hoping to see from their nominees hours from now.

[15:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Striking up the UNLV marching band once again. How awesome is this beautiful sunny day in Vegas? I'll take it. Four hours away from the big debate. Thank you for watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin, hours away from Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

trading proverbial punches here in this arena hall here at UNLV. Let me bring in my political panel. Scottie Nell Hughes, CNN political commentator and Donald Trump supporter, Bakari Sellars, CNN commentator, former South Carolina state representative and Hillary Clinton supporter. Van Jones, Clinton supporter and former Obama senior advisor and Andy Dean, Donald Trump supporter and former president of Trump Productions.

Nice to see all of you.

[15:40:00] Let's go ahead and get to Trump's campaign manager Kellyanne Conway. She was talking to Anderson last night on why isn't Hillary Clinton doing better. Roll the sound.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: For Hillary Clinton she's got the current president, the past president, she happens to be married to, a popular first lady, more popular than Hillary Clinton will ever be in Michelle Obama, she has endless amounts of money. And as I tried to say to you last week, why can't she get to 50% and stay there anywhere? That is an important question in answering yours, she's like the 46% gal. She's nowhere near the margins president Obama got in states where we are competitive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So to my Clinton supporters sitting to my right and left. Why isn't she taking it and running away with it?

BAKARI SELLARS, CNN COMMENTATOR, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE AND HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: That is the worst talking point I think I've ever heard

VAN JONES, CLINTON SUPPORTER AND FORMER OBAMA SENIOR ADVISOR: Kellyanne Conway is one of the best in the business by far.

SELLARS: Correct.

JONES: But that was the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why aren't you beating me harder? Why aren't you destroying me even more?

SELLARS: Why are you only up by 10 or 11 points in national polls? Why are beating in 10 out of 11 swing states.

JONES: It makes me just want to put my hands behind my head, but that's their talking point.

BALDWIN: They're laughing. Watching you scowl.

ANDY DEAN, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER AND FORMER PRESIDENT OF TRUMP PRODUCTIONS: I like these Trump supporters, though, we did a better job of getting signage this time.

BALDWIN: Yes, you did. JONES: They're 60 years old. No undergrads.

BALDWIN: Hey, a vote is a vote.

DEAN: They're grad students. They're grad students. No but I think the point Kellyanne was trying to make and I get how it wasn't the best talking point but when you're not 50%, it means the American public isn't convinced and this isn't over. We have 20 days left and Trump has to make strong arguments and that argument is about the economy and that he is the outsider. It's up to the American people. If they want change, he's their candidate. If they want the status quo, we know where to go.

BALDWIN: Scottie, Ed Rollins who wants Trump to win, you know he's running the Super PAC he said you need a miracle. What is the miracle in the next 20 days?

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: A miracle would be Clinton filling up more than a high school gymnasium for one of her rallies. It is all about engagement and showing up at the polls. You don't see excitement for Hillary Clinton like you see for Trump and that might show up in poll numbers we see daily but it's showing up in crowds. The reason why Republicans lost in 2012, in 2008 is nobody was excited about the candidate on the ticket.

SELLARS: That's not true. The fact is Mitt Romney had larger rallies, in fact, than Donald Trump.

HUGHES: That is false.

SELLARS: But more important, if you want to go about rally size, that doesn't dictate turnout. You can look at the primary with Bernie Sanders turnout, huge rallies, you can look at huge rallies but it's about who gets their people to the polls and right now I have to disavow everybody, I'm sorry, Van, this enthusiasm misnomer. Hillary Clinton is winning in the polls when you talk about enthusiasm.

HUGHES: Because she doesn't have enthusiasm.

JONES: I'm going to shatter your whole hopes and dreams here by pointing out that I would probably rather go to a Trump rally than a Hillary Clinton rally. But I would never vote for Donald Trump. You don't have to be excited --

BALDWIN: Why?

JONES: Because it's the entertainment factor, the electricity, you don't know what will happen. With Hillary Clinton you can watch it on C-span. So let's be honest, the idea of me being excited to go to a rally is not how I'm going to vote.

DEAN: Van makes a point, it's much better entertainment at a Trump rally because --

JONES: Because he's crazy. DEAN: No, because he's intelligent and he's humorous. But this idea

that oh, because he has large rallies, that doesn't translate into votes, that's mathematically untrue. If we look at the primaries and hard numbers, he got more votes than any Republican candidate in the history of the process for the past 200 years.

JONES: Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders had massive rallies and lost.

HUGHES: Bernie Sanders never had a chance thanks to super delegates. I hate to talk about it.

SELLARS: Bernie was robbed.

BALDWIN: Let me throw out a name. Michael Cohen, legal counsel for Trump. You know Michael Cohen, I want to throw this out because Michael Cohen was asked on CNN yesterday about these women accusers coming forward accusing Donald Trump of sex assault. This was his -- defense? Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL COHEN, LEGAL COUNSEL FOR DONALD TRUMP: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people may think they're beautiful, others don't. I don't think it's relevant to the conversation at all.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: He's the one who said "take a look at them" or whatever he said. He was suggesting that they weren't attractive enough for him to make such a move.

[15:45:00] COHEN: Well, I think this is what Mr. Trump is really trying to say is that they're not -- they're not somebody that he would be attracted to and therefore the whole thing is nonsense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now I'm not a lawyer, but I don't know if that's a legal defense, Scottie?

HUGHES: Never ask me to try to explain what a northern man thinks about women. That never goes well, their mamas didn't train them right, never to say a thing about women's looks. But I think take the looks aside it's coming out that a lot of these women have real holes in their stories. There might be some validity to some, once again, there's no evidence proving he actually did it.

JONES: Except his confession?

HUGHES: It's not a confession.

JONES: His own confession saying he does that kind of thing.

SELLARS: But the fact that you can literally say some of them may have a valid point. Some may have a valid point about being harassed and groped. Some may have a valid point about being kissed inappropriately? There is evidence and I'm a lawyer so let me tell you what you would do first. BALDWIN: All right, lawyer.

SELLARS: You would play his statement that says I pop a tic-tac in my mouth and I like to kiss them. Or I can grab them when I want to because I'm famous. Then you trot these women up left and right that says he did the exact same thing then I'll wear my best suit and go to closing arguments and I say he's guilty.

BALDWIN: How does Hillary Clinton address this tonight, Van?

JONES: She doesn't. Well, I think she's got challenges tonight. First of all, the e-mail stuff is getting worse for her not better and she's never done a great job at dealing with the issue. She almost always trips up so he can weaponize that against her, she has to be ready for that. The other challenge, she's got opposite challenges with her base.

On the one hand, you have people who may be overconfident and other people who may feel disappointed so she does have to, you're right, maintain the enthusiasm of her base, you don't want overconfidence and some of this stuff could hurt her. But listen if you could be Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump you'd be Hillary Clinton every time tonight.

BALDWIN: I want to ask you to stick around, I have more. Coming up next here from Vegas, the target of the latest round of hacked DNC e- mails, Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman talks to CNN how he responded to an e-mail where he purportedly called senator Bernie Sanders a -- and I'm quoting -- doofus.

[15:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: A couple of hours away before tonight's final presidential debate here in Las Vegas. The new round of hacked e-mails is being talked about. These from Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman John Podesta. Wolf Blitzer talked one on one with Podesta. He offered his defense of his personal slam on Clinton's primary rival, senator Bernie Sanders.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: In one of the e-mails you called Bernie Sanders a doofus. Did you?

JOHN PODESTA, CLINTON CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN: Well, you know, I have great respect for Bernie Sanders. There was a moment where he opposed the Paris deal, where I -- without confirming the accuracy of the e-mail, I was frustrated with him. But he and I have a very good relationship, a lot of rapport. I have worked for Pat Leahy, the senator from Vermont. I have a very good relationship with senator Sanders.

And I have great affection for him but I do think when he criticized the Paris agreement I didn't think he was taking the right position. I am very proud of president Obama for delivering such an important climate agreement.

BLITZER: I'll take that as a yes.

PODESTA: I'll take that as a statement that I have great admiration for senator Sanders.

BLITZER: Some of the other words you used to characterize --

PODESTA: There are even members of the CNN crew who might read some --

BLITZER: Have to be careful with your e-mails.

PODESTA: You say things in private that you regret. But I have great affection and admiration for senator Sanders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: My panel is back. How would you respond to that?

SELLARS: What we're seeing here is that -- I understand how people can sympathize and empathize with the release of e-mails that have some public import, that talk about policy, that talk about communications about policy. But a lot of these e-mails from John Podesta are simply personal e-mails. You have back and forth of personal dialogue with people.

DEAN: I disagree. It's the opposite.

SELLARS: It's not.

DEAN: What you're seeing, if I could, is Debbie Wassermann Schultz, John Podesta and others, there was an inside effort to keep Bernie Sanders outside of the game. The reason they dislike Bernie Sanders is the reason they dislike Donald Trump. They're going to protect each other when they get to D.C., it's about protection.

SELLAR: The irony about this newfound argument from Trump surrogates and Trump himself, is all of a sudden we love Bernie Sanders, we empathize with Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders is onboard with the Clinton campaign. We've had these arguments. We've hashed this out. It was a primary. You don't like your primary opponent.

DEAN: We don't like the elites rigging elections.

HUGHES: That is the thing. There was a lot of common between -- is about the Wall Street, the financial crisis, fiscal responsibility, that's something the Bernie Sanders crowd was very big on. I don't understand how John Podesta still has his job right now.

It's proved that Hillary Clinton stands by her man -- her men. There has been a lot of damage done. This man has done. Sexist, there's racist, there is horrible things in the e-mails that he reveals. Even if they were personal, it reveals his character. He is not a nice man.

JONES: A, that's completely not true.

HUGHES: The names he called?

JONES: I'm not even going to go -- here is what you have to look at if you're serious about this stuff. There was a real split in this party. There was real antagonism and animosity. Yet Hillary Clinton has met the leadership challenge of healing her party.

[15:55:00] There was real antagonism in your party and your party is falling more apart every day. You don't even have the speaker of the house willing to be on the same stage with your candidate. The number one leadership challenge Trump has had to deal with is to heal his party and he's failed.

BALDWIN: Let me jump in, I want you two -- this is before we go tonight -- finish my sentence. Van. Hillary Clinton will fail tonight if she --

JONES: If she gets -- chooses to mount her own axle on bending the mails.

BALDWIN: Hillary Clinton will fail tonight if she?

SELLARS: I think she'll fail tonight if she fails to prepare for not only Donald Trump but Chris Wallace as well.

BALDWIN: Donald Trump will surprise us most with --

HUGHES: With being presidential and actually presenting a good forward policy, good for the future and separates himself from Hillary.

BALDWIN: Donald Trump will surprise us most with --

DEAN: He creates a choice tonight. That's a choice that put him where he is, that he is the outsider and he is running against an insider, an elitist. And that is the choice.

BALDWIN: 9:00 p.m. live tonight. Watch it here, on CNN, the big debate. Thank you very much. This has been fun. Still ahead a senior adviser to the Trump campaign joins us live with a preview of what his candidate has planned tonight. Don't move.