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Former Israeli Leader Shimon Peres Dead At 93; Israeli Govt. To Convene Special Session to Mourn Peres; Candidates Evaluate The Debate; Trump Tries To Move Back On Message After Debate; Russia: If MH17 Shot Down, Ukraine Did It; Unprecedented Nature Of 2016 Campaign. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired September 28, 2016 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN BREAKING NEWS.

[01:00:14] JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. We'd like to welcome our viewers all around the world. I'm John Vause.

ISHA SESAY, NEWSROOM ANCHOR: And I'm Isha Sesay. Thank you for joining us.

VAUSE: And we are following breaking news. Shimon Peres, one of Israel's founding fathers is dead at the age of 93.

SESAY: He died a few hours ago at Sheba Medical Center outside Tel Aviv. Peres suffered a massive stroke two weeks ago. Doctors say he was making progress but took a turn for the worse on Tuesday.

VAUSE: The government will hold a special session in a few hours to mourn Peres. After that, officials will meet to plan his state funeral. Peres served as Israel's Prime Minister twice. He was president as well from 2007 to 2014.

SESAY: Well, let's bring in CNN's Oren Liebermann live from the Sheba Medical Center. And Oren, as Israelis absorb the news of Shimon Peres's passing, we heard from some of his family members a short time ago. What are we learning about his final two weeks?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that these past two weeks started with this -- the massive stroke he suffered two weeks ago. Since then, he's been sedated and intubated. We got daily updates, and many of these he was stable. There were even some hints that the beginning of those two weeks that his condition had slightly improved, that he was becoming slightly more responsive, and that they'd reduced his level of sedation. But as we found out, he deteriorated rapidly last night and passed away early this morning. We're not sure of the exact time, but we have heard from spokespeople, he passed away early this morning. We know he was surrounded by his family. We heard from the hospital as well, they said they used all of their advanced medical technology and everything they could do to help -- to help save Shimon Peres after he suffered the stroke. But again, he celebrated his 93rd birthday just last month, so he was at a very advanced age. And everyone knew that full recovery was unlikely, if not, impossible. They were hoping for some sort of recovery, but again, early this morning, Shimon Peres passed away after suffering that stroke.

Now the question, what about his legacy? What about his work on peace, his work on building trust between Israelis and Palestinians? That was at the very core of what he did, and he was busy up until the very end. In fact in the morning of the day he suffered the stroke, he even delivered a one-hour speech and posted a Facebook video. He was busy because of what he dreamed in, what he believed in. After a lifetime of service, here is the story of Shimon Peres.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LIEBERMANN: The story of Shimon Peres is the story of modern Israel. One of the longest serving politicians in Israel's history, Peres was there from the very beginning. During the war of independence, he was responsible for buying weapons. He was briefly head of the navy and established the country's aircraft industry. And during the 50's founded the country's nuclear program. In government, he held virtually every major cabinet position and was prime minister three times, but never won an election. Many Israelis considered him aloof, an intellectual who wore a suit, not a uniform.

ETHAN DOR SHAV: Never got the public love that he was yearning for. He was never hugged by the populace of Israel as our leader. He was hated as much as he was loved.

LIEBERMANN: Most of all, he was loved and hated for the 1993 Oslo Peace Process, which saw Yasser Arafat return from exile.

DORE GOLD, PRESIDENT OF JERUSALEM CENTER FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS: His name is attached to the Oslo Peace Accords, which were at the center of the polarization of Israeli society and political life.

LIEBERMANN: It won Peres the Nobel Peace Prize. But a wave of Palestinian suicide bombings and other attacks which followed, left him struggling to defend the peace process.

SHIMON PERES, FORMER PRIME MINISTER AND PRESIDENT OF ISRAEL: I know that we are moving on a road full of dangers. But I know also that this is the right road, the best road, the only road upon which we have to move.

LIEBERMANN: Ultimately, the increase in violence cost him the 1996 election. Israelis turned their backs on Peres in favor of the conservative, Benjamin Netanyahu.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL: I think there's a good chance we're going to win this race.

LIEBERMANN: Peres would often speak in terms of grand visions.

PERES: I do believe that (INAUDIBLE) in the Middle East.

LIEBERMANN: It earned him derision from some Israelis, but international acclaim.

BILL CLINTON: FORMER UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: I'm very grateful to him for a lifetime of thinking big thoughts and dreaming big dreams and figuring out practical ways to achieve those.

LIEBERMANN: And he never stopped striving for peace. He believed in a two-state solution up until the very end.

PERES: You know, I'm either too young or too old to pay too much attention to what people say. I would rather see what they do and maybe in the conversation, some people will say this and that, but the official position and the real desire of Israeli is to have two- states, an up state and tri-state. And I think that's also the conclusion of the Arabs.

LIEBERMANN: Of all the Palestinians, Saeb Erekat, the chief negotiator, may have known Peres the best.

SAEB EREKAT, PALESTINIAN CHIEF NEGOTIATOR: When I met him 25 years ago, I was a young professor. And I was angry with something. And he looked at me, and he said, "Saeb, negotiating in pain and frustration for five years is cheaper than exchanging bullets for five minutes."

LIEBERMANN: After nearly 50 years as a member of the Knesset, Israel's Parliament, Peres became the country's president, serving until his retirement in 2014. But when asked, how he wanted to be remembered, he didn't mention a life of civil service.

PERES: I would like that somebody write about me that they saved the life of a single child. This will satisfy me more than anything else.

LIEBERMANN: Perhaps a better answer came a decade earlier.

PERES: I feel like a person that has settled this country rightly and properly. And that is in my judgment that the highest degree that a person can feel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIEBERMANN: On this day, there are few Israelis who would disagree.

And condolences have been pouring in from all over the world, not only from Israeli leaders who, of course, expressed their deepest sorrow at the passing of Shimon Peres, even if they fundamentally disagreed with him. But also from world leaders, from President Obama, from U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, from Former Presidents George W. Bush and George H.W. Bush, from Tony Blair, and the list goes on for world leaders paying their respects to Shimon Peres, whose story begins from the very beginning of the state of Israel, who's left in his mark on every aspect of his country. I suspect we'll see many of those world leaders coming here to pay their respects and for the funeral of Shimon Peres expected in the next few days. John and Isha?

SESAY: And Oren, to that point, do we know any more about this funeral? Is it the state funeral? What are we hearing about arrangements at this stage?

LIEBERMANN: Well, at the moment, the body of Shimon Peres is here at Sheba Medical Center. At some point, we know he'll be moved to lie in state, so world leaders and the public can pay their respects to him, either at the President's residence in Jerusalem or the Knesset, also in Jerusalem, or perhaps both. And then, the question of when the funeral itself will happen, the expectation here is that it will be on Friday. But that is a complicated question, because the funeral cannot happen on the Sabbath, so it cannot happen on Friday night or Saturday, and it cannot happen on the Jewish New Year, which starts on Sunday night and goes into Monday and Tuesday. It seems from what we're hearing here and from looking at the calendar, and what has to happen for that funeral to happen, Friday morning is the most likely day. But that word has yet to come out officially.

There will be a cabinet meeting in just a few hours. And following that, there will be a minister's meeting. It will be the cultural minister Miri Regev who leads that meeting and who will decide upon the exact timing, the exact location of a state funeral. And the final question, where will Shimon Peres be buried? There is an expectation that he will be buried on Mount Herzl, which is where many Israeli leaders are buried. The other possibility is that he'll be buried in Ben Shemen, which is just outside of Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport. Why there? Well, that's where he came to when he left Poland. It's also where his wife is buried. Again, those are all questions that will be answered in the coming hours, and beyond that, once these meetings get going, the cabinet meeting and the minister's meeting, we'll absolutely keep you updated on that.

SESAY: Oren (INAUDIBLE) we appreciate the reporting. Thank you so much. Oren Liebermann there, joining us there from Sheba Medical Center. Thank you.

VAUSE: And we're hearing from Israel's current leader, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his wife Sarah, expressed deep personal sorrow for the passing of a man cherished by the nation, the former President of Israel, Shimon Peres. Prime Minister Netanyahu will deliver this morning a special statement and will then convene a cabinet for a special session of mourning.

And joining us here in Los Angeles, Michael Oren, Israel's former Ambassador to the United States. Michael, thank you so much for being with us. You know, a lot of talk right now, as is expected and is warranted about legacy and grand achievements, a man who walked the world stage and essentially defined a nation for such a very long time. But you knew him personally, so tell us something about Shimon Peres that we don't know.

[01:18:59] MICHAEL OREN, FMR ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: Well, first of all, it's a -- it's a moment of great sorrow for the people of Israel, for people who respected and admired and loved Shimon Peres throughout the entire world. And you've mentioned that the world leaders who are calling, I think not just world leaders, but people on so many levels. His life's -- his life, he take -- touched so many lives and affected so many people in so many different ways. All of us feel that great sorrow. I had a unique position. Why? I wasn't -- before I was an ambassador, I was a historian. And as a historian, I studied Shimon Peres. Now think about this, Shimon Peres was one of the founding fathers. He was the right-hand man to the person who was Israel's George Washington, David Ben Gurion. He was the founder of the Dimona Nuclear Project in the 1970's. Believe it or not, he was the leader of The Settler Movement, he was the hero of The Settler Movement. Then he became the leader of the Peace Movement. He was one of the masterminds of the Entebbe Raid, 1976. You can't look at really any event that happened in Israel's 68-year history and not find Shimon Peres there. So as an historian, it was fascinating for me.

Then all of a sudden, in 2009 I became ambassador, and I got to work with Shimon Peres. And we would spend hours talking about history. He was -- he was a lover of books. He always wanted to know what was the most recent book, what I had read, what I thought of the book. But mostly we discussed his political history. Now, Peres worked many years for the French. He spoke fluent French, by the way. And he would talk about French political leaders he had known in the 50s, in the 60s people who aren't well-remembered today. He was a great philosopher, and he had a particular idea about what he called brain science. Now, you could tell many times it was called neurology, but he wouldn't go for that. It was brain science. He had one line he would always repeat, he says, "The human brain is the most interesting organ. It understands everything around it, but does not understand itself."

VAUSE: Wow.

OREN: And he was fascinated by that.

SESAY: And you talk about him being a lover of books and being a philosopher. He was also someone who was always able to capture what Israelis were feeling at particular point in time, whether it was the Entebbe raid, whether it was the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, he had such a way with words.

OREN: He had great words. And it's so funny, in Hebrew, he has about a heavy polish accent. But people never heard it, because they were so used to Shimon Peres, and what he said was always new. I kept a little notepad being around him, and I wrote down what I called "peresisms." Now, what's a typical peresism? I'll quote several of them: "Egypt is not a country with a river, it is a river with a country. For example, there are two types of countries in the Middle East, there are holy lands and oily lands." Like that one?

SESAY: Yes.

OREN: And my favorite with one that only Shimon Peres could get away with, "There are two things you must never do in front of a camera, make love and make Middle East peace."

VAUSE: Yeah, that's Shimon Peres.

OREN: Imagine any other leader in the world saying that, and getting away with it.

VAUSE: Exactly. Yeah, he could.

OREN: But he could, because he was so beloved and respected. Right?

VAUSE: When you look at his life, he was never elected prime minister, he served twice. He never -- that for a very long period throughout his career, he never -- I always felt when I spoke with him when I was there, he never got the respect or the love or the adoration of the Israeli people, or, you know, that, you know, in so many ways, he thought, you know, should be his. But he got it towards the end when he transferred through the office of the presidency. When you talk to him about that part of his life, what did he say to you? Was there -- was there an element of satisfaction that finally he was on the stage that he was being viewed by the Israeli public as the statesman and as the politician, the leader that he -- that he, you know, was?

OREN: And it was a great -- it was a great redemptive sense with him that this was what -- this was the goal to which he had striven all of his life. He had been denied at the polls, and yet he was given it -- and given that type of respect, not just in Israel, but on an international stage. And I think it was deeply rewarding to him. He was -- how should I say this -- indefatigable. Trying to keep up with Shimon Peres at 90 years old was almost physically impossible. You would come home from a 16-hour-days negotiations at the White House and congress, and Shimon wants to go out and have a dinner. He wants to go out -- there would be a rock concert, he'd want to go out to a rock concert at 90 years old. Everybody around him would be flat-out dead, but not Shimon Peres. He's been -- he's amazing. He was a man of extraordinary energy. I was with him several weeks ago. I must tell you he was in very, very good health, incredibly robust, immensely acute. And, you know, in a way, he was -- his passing in that way was a blessing. He was never ill and remained Shimon Peres.

(CROSSTALK)

VAUSE: -- right to the end.

OREN: Right to the end.

SESAY: And we're going to get to reactions from U.S. presidents in just a moment, but I do want the ask you as you list all the things he achieved, what was he most proud of? You -- do you know --

OREN: I think he was most proud of the Oslo process. He was most proud of the peace process, though he was not a pacifist. You have to understand, he was not a pacifist. And shortly, he was a -- he was proud of the Dimona Project, which transformed Israel --

VAUSE: (INAUDIBLE)

OREN: -- into -- and without going into too much detail, but transformed Israel into a world power.

VAUSE: Yeah.

OREN: A tiny little country in the -- in the Middle East that was founded in large measure by survivors of the holocaust, within 10 years of its founding, becomes a world power in 1958, which largely to his credit, but then the man who also ensured Israel's security in a way no one could ever fathom after its creation, turned around and tried to make a historic peace with the Palestinians. It didn't -- it didn't succeed, but that in itself was an immense achievement, and it demonstrated deep courage on his behalf.

VAUSE: I used to joke with him about the textile plant at Dimona. He would say it had gone high-tech. Here are some reactions from world leaders.

SESAY: Yeah.

VAUSE: This is from U.S. President Barack Obama, and we'll get you to react to the relationship he had with the presidents after this. "A light has gone out, but the hope he gave us will burn forever. Shimon Peres was a soldier for Israel for the Jewish people, for justice, for peace, and for the belief that we can be true to our best selves."

SESAY: Former U.S. President Bill Clinton released this statement, "The Middle East has lost a fervent advocate for peace and reconciliation, and for a future where all the children of Abraham build a better tomorrow together. And Hillary and I have lost a true and treasured friend."

VAUSE: George W. Bush said this, "Laura and I join the people of Israel and those around the world in mourning the death of Shimon Peres. The Bush family will miss Shimon Peres and his grace, dignity, and optimism." Out of all of those presidents, and you can include Obama -- including Obama, obviously, in this, which one did he have the closest relationship to? I always thought it was Clinton.

[01:20:50] OREN: (INAUDIBLE) I only knew him, you know, as -- in that type of friendship during the Obama years, but I saw that there was -- there was a deep friendship there, a genuine friendship. You know, the position of president of the State of Israel is largely honorific.

SESAY: Uh-hmm.

OREN: You don't have a lot of political power, but you do -- you do have a moral platform, and that counted a lot for president Obama. And he was a frequent guest at the White House. He received America's highest civilian medal, the Presidential Medal of Freedom. That night was an extraordinary night, the Itzhak Perlman played the -- played the violin. Hillary Clinton was there sitting next to me. It was an extraordinary night. And Peres talked about his deep love for America, how America never wanted to conquer other countries in the world, only wanted to bring freedom. And of course, of course during that speech, he talked about brain science. We couldn't convince him not to, because that's just this man. He had that vision.

VAUSE: Yeah.

OREN: And he thought this was the next great frontier. But his -- yeah.

SESAY: As we talk about his legacy, does he leave a legacy that Israelis can easily unite around?

OREN: I think that story of a -- of a -- of a young man who comes -- he came when he was 13 without his parents. He was a shepherd, he had nothing. He -- his entire life was a life of service. Yes, you're right, John, there are people who disagreed with him.

VAUSE: Yeah. It's Israel.

(CROSTALK)

OREN: It's Israel.

(CROSSTALK)

OREN: And he had a difficulty to run politically, and that he was really never elected to the positions that he wanted to be elected to. But I think the story of Shimon Peres, the person who comes with nothing, literally with the clothes on his back, without family, and achieves not just national prominence, but international reverence, is a story to which all Israelis, even the youngest Israelis can aspire to. And I think not just Israelis, I think it's -- he sets an example for the world.

VAUSE: How much does Israel needed Shimon Peres right now?

OREN: I think we all need him everywhere in the world, not just in Israel.

VAUSE: We'll leave it at that. Michael, thank you so much.

OREN: Thank you very much. We will. We will.

SESAY: Thank you so, so much. Our condolences.

OREN: Please, thank you very much.

VAUSE: A short break here. Next on NEWSROOM L.A., we'll have more on the death of Shimon Peres. Also, the legacy of the former Israeli leader.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WORLD SPORTS)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:22:07] SESAY: Hello, everyone. Updating our "BREAKING NEWS," former Israeli President and Prime Minister Shimon Peres has died at 93. Peres suffered a massive stroke two weeks ago, and had been in hospital ever since. Last hour, his son thanked doctors at Sheba Medical Center for their tireless work caring for his father.

VAUSE: Peres spent more than half a century in Israeli politics. He shared a Nobel Peace Prize for the 19 -- in 1994, I should say, for helping to negotiate the Oslo accords, a peace deal between Israelis and Palestinians. And earlier, I asked Edward Walker a former U.S. Ambassador to Israel, about the life and legacy of Shimon Peres. Here's part of our conversation. EDWARD WALKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL: Shimon was an extraordinary person, very great intellect, but also a man who is totally committed to Israel, to its past and future, he was the architect in many respects of the CIDF of Israel's security posture. And he provided the strength that Israel has had to sustain its position in the region against all odds. Nobody expected Israel to survive. And it was people like Shimon Peres that made that survival possible. I would say he is the greatest architect of the -- of the security side of Israel's current situation. He was committed to peace. He was somebody who maybe was a little bit impractical when it came to what was possible and what was not possible, but he didn't lose hope. And he inspired people to try and achieve more than they could, more than they could be expected to achieve. I liked the man.

VAUSE: What --

WALKER: Go ahead.

VAUSE: Sorry to interrupt, sir. But just -- he took on the role as president, which is, you know, it's essentially a ceremonial role, but he made it his own. He did that in 2007, he served until 2014. What continued to drive him to take these roles in public office?

WALKER: I think that Shimon felt that he owed it to Israel. He was one of the founders of -- the founder generation. He had to carry the torch. And, you know, it hasn't been an easy road. And I think that had some real doubts about some of the paths that Israel was taking. But it was not -- it was not easy for him, because he had very little support. A lot of times, he had very little support here inside the country, or certainly from the Palestinians, so he struggled. He struggled and -- but he kept on going.

VAUSE: He struggled but he kept on going. Edward Walker there, a former U.S. ambassador to Israel. I managed to speak with him a few hours ago.

SESAY: Yeah. We'll continue to monitor the reaction to Shimon Peres' passing. We're going to take a quick break now. Millions of U.S. viewers watched Monday night's presidential debate. Ahead, what the candidates are saying about it on the campaign trail.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN BREAKING NEWS.

VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. And if you are just joining us, an update now on our "BREAKING NEWS" out of Israel, the death of former President and Prime Minister Shimon Peres, he was 93.

SESAY: Peres suffered a massive stroke two weeks ago, and had been hospitalized ever since. Peres was a force in Israeli politics for more than five decades. His sons told reporters about an hour ago that his father had no other purpose than serving Israel. Peres served as Israel's Prime Minister and was president from 2007 to 2014. Even after retirement, he kept working for Middle East peace. I turn to politics now. And Donald Trump is trying to move back on message. After getting mixed reviews on his debate performance, the U.S. Republican Presidential Candidate told thousands of supporters in Florida that his opponent, Hillary Clinton, is stuck in the past while he represents change.

VAUSE: He's also claiming a debate win. He's pointing to some unscientific online surveys.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Last night was very exciting, and almost every single poll had us winning the debate against crooked Hillary Clinton. Big league, big league.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[01:30:15] SESAY: Well, joining us now, democratic strategist Dave Jacobson and republican consultant John Thomas. So,

John, it goes to you first. I know how thrilled you are. And he's citing these unscientific online polls as evidence of his win. OK. So, he may have won in his mind or according to these polls. But did he manage to expand the tent after last night's performance?

JOHN THOMAS, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: Not necessarily. I think he reaffirmed his base that he's up there, he can stand toe to toe with Secretary Clinton, and not implode. He didn't have a great night, but he didn't destroy his candidacy either. He missed a lot of opportunities last night. He should have taken shots on Hillary about her e-mails and jeopardizing national security. He didn't bring up the Clinton Foundation. He was fairly rudderless throughout the debate and let Secretary Clinton control the debate, and that was a mistake. Look, in the next debate, he does have to expand the tent. I think we're going to see his going to aggressively go after Hillary Clinton. Actually, as relates to Bill Clinton's affairs that he had, and the -- and the track record Hillary has, and just tearing down those women, because he's got to big -- build a bigger tent.

SESAY: But that's (INAUDIBLE) too, doesn't it?

THOMAS: Oh, absolutely.

DAVE JACOBSON, DEMOCTRATIC STRATEGIST: It's a - it's a double-edged sword, for sure. And I think, like, one of the growth opportunities that Donald Trump has to be targeting is like with women voters. And so, for sure, like, if he goes in the attack on that front like - look, when the - when the whole Monica Lewinsky scandal came out, obviously it was damaging for president, but if you look back a polling data, like, Hillary Clinton's numbers were through the roof. That's what bolstered her numbers and her profile when she ran for U.S. senate. And so, look, I think Donald Trump has to, you know, fundamentally like take that calculated risk. But I think at the end of the day, look, this was the guy who went in. He was ill-prepared, he was loose with the facts, and he wasn't disciplined. He became unhinged, he allowed Hillary Clinton to get under his skin. And he became erratic on debate - on the debate stage, and I think that was the big struggle last night.

VAUSE: Yeah, the Bill and Ted preparation to debate, it didn't work during the due.

JACOBSON: OK.

VAUSE: So he's got to do better with women. Well, one of the big stories out of the debate, of course, Miss Venezuela, a woman that, you know, Hillary Clinton made headlines with saying that he called Alicia Machado "Miss Piggy" because she gained weight. Also referred to her as "Miss Housekeeping" because she was from Venezuela. And, you know, this was one of those, you know, softballs that she totally set him up with. But this morning, again, you know, he was asked about this. And, you know, as a campaign adviser, you would say, "time to leave it" but not Donald Trump.

(BEGIN AUDIO TAPE)

TRUMP: I know that person. That person was a Miss Universe Person, and she was the worst we ever had. The worst, the absolute worst. She was impossible, and she was a Miss Universe contestant, and ultimately a winner, who they had a tremendously difficult time with as Miss Universe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I know that story. Well, I didn't know you -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What --

TRUMP: She was a - she was the winner, and, you know, she gained a massive amount of weight, and it was -- it was a real a real problem. We had a -- we had a real problem.

(END AUDIO TAPE)

VAUSE: They also found some videotape where he referred to her as an "Eating Machine", back in 1997. But John, here, if Donald Trump is going the change the way he does these debates, shouldn't it start on day one, like now?

THOMAS: Yes, but Donald Trump can't help himself. You know, it will be fascinating to see what impact this has on Donald Trump and his polling numbers, because Dave and I were just chatting. You know, this woman is successful. She's beautiful, and will America be sympathetic to something that happened? She won the pageant.

SESAY: When she talked about weight, women will always be sympathetic.

THOMAS: OK.

VAUSE: Women don't like fat shaming? Wow. You learn something new every day on this show.

THOMAS: But Trump does need to move beyond that, and that was part of his problem last night, is that he gets back into defending himself any time he's attacked. Look, your opponent is always going to attack you. That doesn't mean you have to respond. Donald Trump has to make this race about Hillary Clinton.

VAUSE: She did a good job, doing exactly that, right, though?

JACOBSON: Yeah, precisely. She made - she made this a referendum on Donald trump last night. I mean, she became -- she came in prepared. I mean, her objective was to look cool, calm, and collected, to have sort of a master -- a mastery when it comes to the policies both domestic and foreign. But at the same time, you know, get under his skin, make him look like he's unhinged, he's erratic, he's unstable. He knew this going in. There was a report by "The New York Times" that came out five days before the debate that outlined precisely her strategy. It also outlined his strategy, that he wasn't doing any mock debates. He wasn't having anybody stand in for Hillary Clinton behind a podium and sort of running through possible questions. And I think that was a big misstep on his campaign's part.

VAUSE: Someone found his strategy written down on the back of a napkin (INAUDIBLE)

JACOBSON: I wouldn't be surprised.

SESAY: But Dave, if the -- and John, this is to you also, if Hillary Clinton brought out Alicia Machado for the first debate, what is she going to do in the second and third debate? I mean, what do you think in terms of what she has up her sleeve? Do you expect more of the same, a person from his past brought up in this kind of spectacular way?

THOMAS: I mean, I hate to talk to the Democrats, but this is what she should do. She should bring out those architects, those vendors that he stiffed and because he's probably going to address it again in the next debate. He's going to tighten up his answer, which she should have saying, they did shoddy work, and look, I hire lots of people, not every day is a good job, I don't pay the people that do good jobs. And she points to the architect, she points to the housekeeper, or the window hanger, and says, "Look at those people, and you tell me what kind of work they did." That's probably where - you got to escalate that and put human faces to the stories.

SESAY: Is that what you think, Dave?

JACOBSON: John, that is a brilliant strategy on the Clinton part. And I think, she knows fundamentally looking at the polls throughout the race, that, like, every time she's taken Donald Trump and taken him and made him less disciplined talking about real Americans who aren't on the ballot, his numbers go through -- they take a nosedive. I mean, that's just the cold hard reality. I mean, whether it was the Khan family, the Gold Star Family, Judge Curiel or others, and I think this is emblematic of that strategy, but the question is like, how many people is she going to, like, throw out there? John mentioned the architect which is another person who didn't come up as much in the debate, but I think like small business owners -- like that's a message that can resonate with independent voters.

VAUSE: OK. Let's listen to Miss Machado, because she was doing the rounds everywhere today, essentially saying that Donald Trump kept calling her Miss Piggy.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

ALICIA MACHADO, FORMER MISS UNIVERSE: Yes, all the time. And I share a lot of time with him in the office, in the events. Maybe now -- maybe now he remember me. But I think he didn't remember me.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

VAUSE: Do you think Trump will respond to what she said tonight? I mean, with the (INAUDIBLE)

THOMAS: He can't - he can't help himself.

VAUSE: Right. He'll just keep going.

JACOBSON: Of course, he will. Yeah. Although, I'm waiting for him to say tomorrow, "It wasn't about her weight, it was that she's -- she oinked a lot. She just oinked."

VAUSE: She's like The Muppets

JACOBSON: The Muppets.

VAUSE: How do you like your good pork chop?

JACOBSON: OK.

SESAY: Promising to new depths.

JACOBSON: Presidential discourse (INAUDIBLE) #2016.

SESAY: This is what it has come to.

VAUSE: OK. Dave and John, thank you.

SESAY: On that note.

JACOBSON: Thanks guys.

SESAY: Thank you.

VAUSE: Who doesn't like The Muppets?

SESAY: Time to dig yourself out of the (INAUDIBLE) All right. Time for a quick break now. Next on NEWSOOM L.A., we'll turn back to our "BREAKING NEWS." The death of former Israeli President and Prime Minister Shimon Peres.

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[01:40:40] SESAY: Hello, everyone. Recapping our "BREAKING NEWS" for you, the death of former Israeli Prime Minister and President Shimon Peres at 93.

[01:40:47] VAUSE: He suffered a massive stroke two weeks ago. He had been in hospital at the Sheba Medical Center ever since. At a news conference the last hour, his son-in-law, also his personal physician said Peres was fully fit up until the stroke.

SESAY: Peres is one of Israel's founding fathers and had been in politics for more than 50 years. He served as president for seven years until 2014. Plans are still being made for Peres's state funeral.

VAUSE: Avi Mayer joins us now on the line. He a spokesman for the Jewish Agency for Israel. Avi, thank you for being with us. And obviously condolences to -- on the sad news of the death of Shimon Peres. Many Israelis will be just waking to this news right now. And what will their reaction be?

[01:41:28] AVI MAYER, JEWISH AGENCY SPOKESMAN (via telephone): Yes, good morning from Jerusalem. And today truly is a day of mourning here in Israel. Shimon Peres was a visionary in the truest sense of the term. He was one of Israel's founding fathers. He helped build Israel (INAUDIBLE) he was at most emblematic of the quest for peace (INAUDIBLE) And so he would be - I mean, mourned by many Israelis across the political spectrum and all different backgrounds.

VAUSE: When they will think back to all that Shimon Peres has achieved from his early days as defense minister, to his years in politics and then, you know, did also peace accords, also his time as president, what will he be remembered for the most?

MAYER: Well, I mean, it's so hard to capture a man that has this (INAUDIBLE) many years in serving the country. But I would say this, he really will be remembered as one of the last remaining members of the founding generation of the State of Israel, as well as the man who led Israel in its quest for peace in recent years. Multiple Arab states, the Palestinians, (INAUDIBLE) of Israel and the two statements (INAUDIBLE) and I think that that is the way he will be remembered. It's notable that he is being mourned and remembered not only by --

VAUSE: Avi, I'm afraid I might have to drop you, because we're having a little bit of trouble hearing you with the telephone line right now. It's breaking up. And we're hoping it may get a little better, but unfortunately it got a little worse as we were talking. So, Avi Mayer there with the U.S. agency on the line from Israel, sharing us some of his perspective there, on the legacy of Shimon Peres.

SESAY: But his point is well-taken and it's a time of mourning for the nation as he will -

VAUSE: And it will be for some time.

SESAY: -- sleep for some time. To some other news now. And Russia says if Malaysia Airlines flight 17 was shot down, Ukrainian forces are the ones who did it. And the Russian say there's radar data to prove it.

VAUSE: The plane went down in July 2014 over eastern Ukraine killing 298 people. Ukraine has not responded to Russia's allegations. Dutch investigators will release their findings on the crash in the coming hours.

SESAY: Well, let's bring in CNN Safety Analyst David Soucie for his perspective. David, always good to speak to you. An air accident inquiry by the Dutch safety board concluded back in October 2015, that MH17 was shot down by an anti-aircraft missile. What are your expectations for this Dutch-led joint investigation team report?

[01:44:05] DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, I think the important thing to note on this is that we've got the Russians pointing at the Ukrainians. Ukrainians pointing at the Russians. Again, it's confusing, but with this report, what we're saying now is that they have proof. The Russians have come forward. The defense ministry has come forward and said we have proof that that missile was launched from non-controlled rebel forces, in other words from an area within Ukraine, that Russia was not responsible for. So, if that does prove to be the fact, then the Ukrainian is going to - the Ukrainians are going to have a lot to answer for in this accident.

SESAY: As you go through this report, what were you specifically be looking out for?

SOUCIE: In this report, what is important is the radar data that's been submitted just recently by the Russians, which is a little suspect on my part. This should have been - this should have been released to the Dutch joint investigation team much earlier than now. The time they - the timing and when they're reporting it is questionable. But the first thing that you're looking at there is within the Ukrainian air control area, was there a launch, a missile launch recorded. And if it was, why was it not released by the Ukrainians if they were trying to hide it or not? So that becomes more than just an accident investigation. Now, it's a criminal investigation. And more importantly, a military defense type of investigation, which could have serious impacts on their ability to negotiate between themselves, between the Russians and Ukrainians.

SESAY: David, someone wondering will there ever be definitive answers in this investigation or whether MH17 will sadly become another Lockerbie, a case that continues to divide people. How do you see it?

SOUCIE: I think it will continue to divide. Even the -- as I said, the questionable release time of this information makes it - is it -- was it created? Is it factual, is it not? Where it really comes back to is if you recall, this was July 17th of 2014. And President Putin had not released that area. In other words, had not controlled the area. So, the investigation was hampered from the beginning. There was no way to get people out there. We looked at the satellite images. I looked at the satellite images almost immediately following the accident. And you could see that there were areas where there was debris from the aircraft, but no one had been out there to investigate, simply because it was still in a war area. So without that critical time right after an accident when you have to gather the information about what happened, I think this -- you're right, I think this is something that will go down much like Lockerbie, with questions and difficulty in trying to let the families understand what has happened to their - to their loved ones for almost indefinitely.

SESAY: Yeah. Those poor families. David Soucie, we appreciate you joining us with your perspective. Thank you so much as always.

SOUCIE: Thanks for having me.

VAUSE: And we'll take a short break. When we come back, the U.S. Presidential Debate, a lot like the campaign, contentious and controversial. We'll take a closer look at how Donald Trump's campaign might just be changing U.S. politics for good.

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[01:50:05] VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. Condolences are coming in from around the world for the late Israeli Prime Minister and President Shimon Peres. He died early Wednesday at age 93.

SESAY: Peres suffered a massive stroke two weeks ago, and had been hospitalized ever since. He was the face of Israeli politics, spending more than 50 years in public office.