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CNN NEWSROOM

Report: Ex-Ferguson Police Chief on Charlotte Shooting; Family Releases Cell Phone Video of Charlotte Shooting; Ted Cruz Endorses Donald Trump. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired September 23, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:30:00] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Should the department release all the video they have right now?

THOMAS JACKSON, EX-FERGUSON POLICE CHIEF: They are in a tough spot really because depending on what the rules are for example for where I am in St. Louis county the prosecuting attorney really owns all that stuff because he's going to be investigating the shooting. It's a homicide but he has to determine whether or not it's justified or if it is some sort of crime.

And so all that stuff is his and there has to be a determination what the greater benefit or what the detriment is to releasing it. Does it damage a possible jury pool? Does it hurt the investigation and cause witnesses to say things they might not otherwise say? So you have to be real careful with releasing stuff like that.

HARLOW: I understand that. And that's we just heard from the governor, Pat McCrory, said there are many different camera angles and they can show different things, and he said it was analogous to different angles he saw in a football game showing different things. Obviously this is very different from that but the point he's making is, you know, you have to see the all angles.

The issue here is you've had these protests that have become violent in Charlotte. One man, a 26-year-old, died from a shot from another civilian in the middle of one of those protests on Wednesday night. They are calling for transparency and they don't have it. What would you do if it were up to you?

JACKSON: What we did in Ferguson, and I'm sure they're doing the best they can there, too, to keep the public informed is everything that I had that could release that wasn't the property of the investigating body or the prosecuting attorney's office we just released it. That stuff was not going to be part of the greater case and wouldn't necessarily skew witnesses.

But they are just in tough spot now because this is all evidence, they've got an investigation going on, and poured on demand to satisfy a thirst for more knowledge is not necessarily the appropriate or productive thing to do.

HARLOW: Now that we have this video, have you been able to view the full two minutes of this video on our broadcast?

JACKSON: I did. I saw it in the green room a few moments ago.

HARLOW: We hear the police saying "drop the gun, drop the gun" but we hear Keith Scott's wife saying, "He doesn't have a gun, he doesn't have a gun, he has a traumatic brain injury." What is your assessment from her vantage point?

JACKSON: Well, there you go with what we were talking about. There's two completely different narratives going on there and you're watching it go down. With the police say, drop the gun, there's a presumption that they see a gun. Her saying he doesn't have a gun, she is not seeing him necessarily but it's a horrible thing to watch, to just watch that go down and the poor woman witnessing that. It's an awful thing. I just hope they get resolution to it.

HARLOW: Let's talk about the protests. They were violent for two nights. Largely peaceful last night. You had weeks and weeks on end. What are the first lessons learned?

JACKSON: I think one of the first lessons and Charlotte was victimized by it is the effect of social media. The way social media can create its own narrative, create its own story and depending how much of a following each tweeter or Instagram person has, that's the story people will believe.

And they'll come out believing that something horrible happened without the facts being out. It is one lesson you have just to be ahead of that social media. I but just watching the Charlotte response, I am so impressed with how well they have done.

They've been very stern in suppressing the violence, which is what you have to do. A lot of people that are doing actually civil disobedience, we call it peaceful protected protest but it is really when you are out in the street keeping people from going to their homes and businesses you're breaking the law. But it's always been an effective strategy. The police can let that go on for as long as they think it's OK but it is the violence has to be controlled.

HARLOW: This department chose not to use armored personnel carriers. The militarized items of police forces that they do sometimes have and they've used in certain cities. I mean look what we saw in Baltimore, some of what we saw in Ferguson. Is that the best way to handle it?

JACKSON: The tactics change with the way the crowd is doing. The actual vehicles that we had most of the times in Ferguson were the SWAT vehicles. They're made in Massachusetts, and they're personnel carriers and rescue devices.

[15:35:00] They were sort of created for things like Columbine and mass shootings, really not towards riots but that's how they can get in and rescue people who may have been injured or find themselves in a dangerous situation. So if they need those pieces of equipment they have them accessible to them. But I'm really proud of their governor. He's come out right in the middle of this thing, he's given the police whatever they need. He's deployed the national guard which is a force multiplier. They are there to protect buildings and infrastructure, so the police can actually restore order and enforce the law. HARLOW: But there are a lot of folks upset with him and with the

state and city for not releasing that video yet. They say deserve that transparency. I have to leave it there, we have more breaking news. Tom Jackson, former police chief of Ferguson, Missouri, thank you very much.

JACKSON: Thank you.

HARLOW: Coming up next, politics three days before the first presidential debate, breaking news, Ted Cruz has done a major about face announcing he will endorse Donald Trump for president. I'll get reaction from his former spokeswoman next. Stay with us.

[15:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: He was Donald Trump's closest and arguably fiercest competitor during the primary, now Texas senator Ted Cruz is endorsing Donald Trump. He just posted moments ago why on Facebook, a lengthy explanation. Here are two of the key reasons. "First, last year I promised to support the Republican nominee, I intend to keep my word. Second, even though I have had areas of significant disagreement with our nominee, by any measure Hillary Clinton is wholly unacceptable, that's why I've always been #NeverHillary."

The move is a huge reversal after the bitter rift between the two developed as they vied for the Republican nomination. Let's not forget what Ted Cruz had to say about Trump after he gave the controversial speech at the convention.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TED CRUZ, FORMER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will tell you when I stood on that debate stage, and they asked every candidate there, if you don't win will you support the nominee. I raised my hand and I raised my hand enthusiastically. With full intention of doing exactly that. And I'll tell you the day that pledge was abrogated, the day that was abrogated was the day this became personal and as I said at the time, and I'm not going to get into criticizing or attacking Donald Trump by I'll just give you this response, I am not in the habit of supporting people who attack my wife and attack my father."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Obviously attacking his father, he's talking about how Donald Trump pushed the conspiracy theory that his father was involved in the JFK assassination.

Completely unfounded, our Jake Tapper with important reporting on this as well, someone familiar with the decision making process saying that Senator Cruz making it clear that he wanted assurances that a strict constitutionalist conservative would be appointed to the Supreme Court and Trump came through on that putting out list of strong conservative judges, and said he would choose from that list.

Of course that happening a lot of it today. Trump came on board with internet freedom issue this week, taking a stand calling on senate leadership to support internet freedom. It didn't come to fruition but it is evidence according to Jake Tapper's source that Donald Trump is taking seriously issues that conservatives want him to act on. Jim Acosta, you didn't wake up this morning thinking this would happen.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely not, Poppy. There was a lot of bad blood between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. Don't forget that Donald Trump once questioned whether Ted Cruz could be eligible to be president of the United States because he was born in Canada.

Then there was the re-tweet of an unflattering image of Heidi Cruz and so on. But in this Facebook post from Ted Cruz he lays out pretty clearly why he's now endorsing Donald Trump. He says at the very end of this post, that he is honoring his pledge he made to the Republican national convention to endorse the Republican nominee.

He says first and foremost, it is about the supreme court, he wants a supreme court that is going to reflect his values and he says Donald Trump will deliver that. The Trump campaign put out an expanded list of Donald Trump's picks for the supreme court. On that list was Utah Republican senator Mike Lee, a tea party favorite who is also close to Ted Cruz.

Ted Cruz mentions Mike Lee in the Facebook post he issued a few moments ago. I talked to Mike Lee's office earlier today and they said this does not help Mike Lee off the fence at all whatsoever.

He is not endorsing or supporting Donald Trump but it apparently did help Ted Cruz and I'm told from people inside the Trump campaign that they are very enthusiastic about this. There are people inside the Trump campaign who worked for Ted Cruz. Jason Miller the senior communications advisor worked for Ted Cruz,

and Kellyanne Conway worked for a pro-Cruz super PAC, They're happy that Ted Cruz is coming on board and he is going to be a powerful surrogate in this home stretch of the campaign. Perhaps not with those independent, centrist voters that Donald Trump desperately needs in swing states, but he does help rally the GOP base behind and that's pretty crucial especially heading into this first debate.

HARLOW: No question about it. Jim, thank you very much. I want to bring in CNN political commentator Alice Stewart. Key in the conversation because she's the lead communications for senator Ted Cruz. Also with us CNN political commentator,

Bill Press who supports Hillary Clinton. Hi to you both. Major news, major development. Alice, the question is why now but I think the broader question is how much is this a vote for Trump and how much is this an endorsement to help senator Cruz in 2018 in the next race for him locally against McCall. How much of this is about not being blamed if Trump loses.

[15:45:00] ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This is about clearly winning the presidency this time for the Republican party. He made it clear in the statement he put out. 45 days out from the election and it's a critical time. He made two key points, he made a promise to support the Republican nominee.

He will honor that promise and Hillary Clinton is wholly unfit to be president.

HARLOW: But he believed those things actually when he went on stage at the RNC and didn't endorse Trump and said what we just played for you after it. Those two things haven't changed. So really why now?

STEWART: It's in a tough fight. The race has tightened, the polls are close and look presidential politics it is a rough-and-tumble business, it's a blood sport. Ted got more of attacks from Donald Trump than any other candidate. It takes a long time for those wounds to heal.

HARLOW: Is it about self-preservation? In part if Donald Trump does not win when Ted Cruz is running again in 2018 people can look at him and say, including his opponent, you not getting behind Donald Trump is the reason he didn't win the White House? Is it about self- preservation?

STEWART: Clearly, it's about the reasons he pointed out. Throughout the campaign there were several tenets he had in his campaign, supreme court nominee, topping the list, Obamacare, national security, immigration. But the supreme court nominees -- the supreme court has the -- the next president has the opportunity to appoint justices, up to four possibly and that could change the trajectory of the supreme court.

We're talking about freedom of speech, second amendment rights, health care, and he wants to make sure that Donald Trump is the president because he trusts his nominees meaning Mike Lee, as he said.

HARLOW: I want to get to that in one moment. I want to hear what the Trump campaign said but I want to get Bill Press in the conversation. You heard what Jim Acosta said. This doesn't help a lot with independents or people that aren't hard core conservatives but he said it is going to help undeniably Donald Trump with some of those hard core conservatives who believed before that Donald Trump didn't speak to their core values but that Ted Cruz did.

BILL PRESS, CNN ANCHOR: Let me say Alice, nice try but no cigar. I don't buy it at all. This is all about Ted Cruz. It's not about Donald Trump. Ted Cruz has already has had meetings talking about his plans for 2020. He doesn't want to be the guy who could be blamed as you point out, Poppy, if Donald Trump does in fact lose.

But I have to say, we're not going back far enough here. I find this amusing. I remember when Ted Cruz in the beginning of the primary he was the only guy that was for Donald Trump. He was the guy saying nice things about Trump, remember that?

So Ted Cruz was for Donald Trump when he could have beat him but didn't. Then he went against him when he couldn't beat him, then he goes to the convention when he's expected to endorse and he doesn't endorse, and by the way doesn't do any damage to Donald Trump, and now he waits until now and he endorses. I think it will make zero difference with anybody.

HARLOW: Alice what about Trump saying previously he didn't want Ted Cruz's endorsement.

STEWART: Clearly a lot of things change as we get closer to the election, what this shows, speaking with the Trump campaign after this was announced, they are glad to have this endorsement.

HARLOW: What did they say to you? You just got off the phone. What did they say?

STEWART: I spoke with Jason Miller. He said this is great news and shows the Republican ticket is unified. He says there's no more never Trump and out the nail in the coffin by saying that the Hillary Clinton should be very worried. The Clinton campaign should be worried.

HARLOW: Well, Bill, one of the things that was helping Hillary Clinton is the fact that you do have a fracturing within the Republican party. This does mend a little bit of the it, does it not?

PRESS: That's the very point I was going to make. Let's remember, there's still two former Republican presidents, neither of whom have endorsed Donald Trump and will not. A former secretary of state Colin Powell. Former GOP nominee Mitt Romney. At least five U.S. senators, this week there are 75 senior diplomats, Republican and Democrat, there are 50 senior national security advisors, including two cabinet members of George W. Bush who have said they could never support Donald Trump. So compared to this huge mountain of Republicans who are not for Trump I'd say Ted Cruz is a tiny pebble on that mountain.

HARLOW: Alice Stewart, Bill Press, wish we had more time, thank you very much.

Next, we want to get back to breaking news out of Charlotte, North Carolina. That new cell phone video of the police shooting of Keith Lamont Scott just released this afternoon by Scott's wife, video she took of those moments, the final moments of his life on her cellphone. We'll get reaction from a pastor and community leader in Charlotte straight ahead.

[15:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right, back to our breaking news out of Charlotte, North Carolina, new cellphone video of the death of Keith Lamont Scott who was shot and killed by that Charlotte police officer. See on cellphone video by Scott's wife. While this video does not show the shooting, you will hear the lead up to the shooting and will you hear those shots fired. I want to warn you what you're about to see is graphic and very disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:55:00] RAKEYIA SCOTT, WIFE OF KEITH LAMONT SCOTT: Don't shoot him. Don't shoot him. He has no weapon. He has no weapon. Don't shoot him. Don't shoot him. Don't shoot him. He didn't do anything.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Drop the gun! Drop the gun!

RAKEYIA SCOTT: He doesn't have a gun. He has a TBI. He's not going to do anything to you guys. He just took his medicine.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Drop the gun!

RAKEYIA SCOTT: Keith, don't let them break the windows. Come on out the car.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Drop the gun.

RAKEYIA SCOTT: Keith, don't do it.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Drop the gun.

RAKEYIA SCOTT: Keith, get out the car. Keith, Keith, don't you do it. Don't you do it. Keith! Keith! Don't you do it.

(GUN SHOTS)

Did you shoot him? Did you shoot him? Did you shoot him? He better not be dead. He better not be dead. I know that much he better not be dead. I'm not coming near you. I'm going to record you. He better be alive. Better be alive.

Yes, we're over here at 9453 Lexington Court these are the police officers that shot my husband and he better live. He better live. Because he didn't do nothing to them. Ain't nobody touch nobody. All good. I know he better live.

I know he better live. How about that. I'm not coming to you guys. But he better live. He better live. Y'all hear this and you see this, right. He better live. He better live. I swear he better live. Yes. He better live. He better live. He better live. I ain't going nowhere I'm in the same spot. That's OK. Did y'all call the police. I mean did y'all call the ambulance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: On the phone with me now is Reverend Jay Leach, the senior minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Charlotte. Thank you for being with me. I understand you just saw this individual video from Keith Lamont Scott's wife for the first time. What was your reaction?

REVEREND JAY LEACH, SENIOR MINISTER, THE UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST CHURCH OF CHARLOTTE: Well, I think you need to understand that while we recognize that this is a national and now and sadly an international story those of us who live in this community are deeply invested in it. And just the viewing of this video impacts us in a very different way. It's -- to think that we put a family in a position to reveal this moment to us in this way, after all of the calls to reveal the official video and the refusal to do that. And to think that this now created a situation that a family has to bare this moment before the community and now before the world is in unspeakably heartbreaking.

HARLOW: Unspeakably heartbreaking. Take us into the mood of our city obviously those protests last night were peaceful for the most part. They were violent the night before. A 26-year-old was killed in them shot by another civilian. What do you expect tonight as we head into the weekend?

LEACH: You know, I think all of us have given, up trying to predict. I was one of the people that was very critical of chief of police saying we're preparing for the worst because I think those in a way in a way become self-fulfilling prophecies. And so I don't want to engage in that, at the same time, I have to tell you I am sitting in the safe confines of my office and I am utterly incredulous that you can have that many officers and the inability to deal with the situation other than a fatality no matter what he had in his hand.

I have to say, I was at this site for much of Wednesday morning and much of what's on this video was corroborated by the stories I heard from people at the site. They talked about the wife coming down. They were watching this unfold. And they were very, very skeptical about the story the police are telling.

There's going to be immense anger because we see this story not in isolation, but we see it in conjunction with what we saw just this week in Tulsa and what we see over and over and over - over 160 times this year, where police have killed African American men. And so I think any of us who care about the health of this community have to be deeply worried about what it is going to do to the mood and the tone of our community to introduce this video into what we have already endured in the course of this week.

HARLOW: Reverend Jay Leach of the Unitarian Universalist Church in Charlotte we wish for peace in your community tonight and this weekend. Thank you for joining us very much. Thank you all for being with me "The Lead with Jake Tapper" begins right now.