Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

Trump Speaks at Phyllis Schlafly Funeral; Clinton Apologizes for Calling Trump Voters "Basket of Deplorables"; U.S., Russia Agree to Syrian Ceasefire; Mike Pence Releases Tax Returns, Will Trump Follow. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired September 10, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:12] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour, 3:00 p.m. eastern. I'm Poppy Harlow, in New York.

A lot of news for you this hour. Major developments in the past few moments. This is anything but a dull and quiet day on the campaign trial. Both candidates unleashing harsh words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you can put half of Trump supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables.

(LAUGHTER)

Right?

(LAUGHTER)

Racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, you name it. Unfortunately, there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their website that used to only have 11,000 people. Now have 11 million. He tweets and re-tweets their offensive, hateful, mean-spirited rhetoric.

Now, some of those folks, they are irredeemable. But thankfully, they are not America.

But that other basket of people are the people who feel the government has let them down, the economy has left them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures. And they are just desperate for change.

They don't buy everything he says but he seems to hold out some hope that they're lives will be different, that they won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're at a dead end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: Clinton is now apologizing for part of what she said last night. Let me read you part of it. She said last night, "It was grossly generalistic. That's never a good idea. I regret saying 'half'. That was wrong" She goes on and says, "It's deplorable though that Trump has built his campaign largely on prejudice and paranoia and given a national platform to hateful views and voices, including by re-tweeting fringe bigots with a few dozen followers and spreading their message to 11 million people," talking about the number of Trump followers.

A lot to dissect. We'll have our political panel in a moment.

I want to take you though to St. Louis, Missouri. Donald Trump is speaking at the funeral for Phyllis Schlafly, a major conservative activist. Let's listen in.

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: -- come before anything or anyone else. She loved her country. She loved her family and she loved her God.

Her legacy will live on every time some underdog out-matched and out- gunned defies the odds and delivers a win for the people. America has always been about the underdog and also been about defying the odds. The idea that so-called little people or the little person that she loved so much could beat the system, oftentimes the rigged system -- you've been hearing a lot about it -- that the American grass roots is more powerful than all the world's special interests put together. That's the way Phyllis felt. She's always felt that way. That's the romance of America. That's the story of the mother and the patriot that we honor here today.

Phyllis, who is rejoined with her late husband, Fred, is looking down on us right now, and I'm sure she's telling us to keep up the fight, no doubt. No doubt about it.

Phyllis, we love you. We miss you. And we will never, ever let you down.

God bless you Phyllis God bless her family, and God bless everyone.

Thank you very much. Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, everybody.

(APPLAUSE)

[15:05:50] HARLOW: There you have it, Donald Trump making some pretty brief remarks there, remarks remembering Phyllis Schlafly, a conservative icon for decades in the party. That funeral being held in St. Louis, Missouri.

Let's get back to the top political stories I just mentioned. A major apology coming from Hillary Clinton for part of what she said last night, talking about -- let me read part of it. She said last night, "To be grossly generalistic, you can put half of Trump supporters into what I call a basket of deplorable." Going on to say, "The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, you name it."

Let's talk about this. Joining me is our political panel, CNN senior media correspondent and host of "Reliable Sources," Brian Stelter; CNN political commentator and Washington correspondent for the "New Yorker," Ryan Lizza; also the former chairman of the Washington, D.C., Democratic Party and a Clinton supporter, A. Scott Bolden, and on the other side, Scottie Nell Hughes, CNN political commentator and a Trump supporter.

Thank you all for being here.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Let me being with you, Ryan Lizza.

Donald Trump said, "Wow. Hillary Clinton was so insulting to my supporters, millions of amazing hard-working people, I think it will cost her at the polls."

Ryan, was it a mistake for her to go after Trump supporters rather than just going after Trump?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you took the words right out of my mouth. I think, in politics, it's never a good idea for someone, especially at that level, to paint someone's supporters with a broad brush. Frankly, whether it's accurate or not, you're running against Donald Trump, you're not running against his voters. We've seen other politicians step in it by doing this before, Barack Obama, famously, in 2008. That's why she came out so quickly and corrected this.

Now we can get into a discussion about what Trump supporters believe. Is there any truth to the comments she made? But just purely politically, not fact checking what she said, she made a political mistake. You don't attack someone's supporters. You don't insult someone's supporters. You attack and insult the candidate himself. I think that was her political mistake here, Poppy.

HARLOW: She came out fast and she apologized for it. Part of our reporting from Jeff Zeleny is the reason she did that so quickly to apologize is the campaign felt they had to. They want to double down on --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: -- the belief that some of his supporters are what she said they are, racist, et cetera They couldn't get past that and get to that, until they did apologize for saying "half" of them.

Let me read the other half of what she said, because she said, "The other basket of Trump supporters are people who feel the government has let them down, the economy has left them down, nobody cares about them -- and they are just desperate for change." Brian Stelter, to you, that's the totality of what she said last

night, the "basket of deplorable." Is she correct in saying that, not the half part but in how she described a chunk of his support?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT & CNN HOST, RELIABLE SOURCES: Right. That's the thing about this story. We have to separate whether she was right from weather she was smart to do it.

Ryan, I think you were trying get at it, talking about fact checking here versus talking about whether she was smart to do it.

We have to confront, as a society, that some Trump supporters are racist and sexists and homophobic and uniphobic (ph). Some Hillary Clinton supporters are also racist and sexist, et cetera, et cetera. A lot of reach and data would suggest, if you have those repulsive views, you are more likely to sport Trump than Clinton. That said, some of those folks also support Clinton. We should confront the reality of situation and then talk about whether she was smart to say it or not. But there's no doubt about that there are, when you go to Trump's rallies, people that have repulsive, despicable viewers, people that don't believe the president is actually the president, people that believe he is a Muslim, people that believe that --- and we can go on and on --

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: -- about the horrible things that are believed. And also views about blacks and Hispanics as well. That doesn't mean all Trump supporters feel that way. But some of it is deplorable. And let's not pretend like some of it is not deplorable while we freak out about what she said last night.

[15:10:07] HARLOW: I think the context of -- this comes back to is the issue of Trump's top surrogates, like Rudy Giuliani, Kellyanne Conway, who said Trump believes the president was born in the United States. The candidate, himself, hasn't said that. You have some of his supporters at these rallies also not believing President Obama was born in the United States.

Scott, to you.

As a Clinton supporter, she's come out and apologized. She said, "I shouldn't have said half." As a Clinton supporter, is there a percentage of Trump supporters that you think are racist, sexist, et cetera.

A. SCOTT BOLDEN, FORMER CHAIRMAN, WASHINGTON, D.C., DEMOCRATIC PARTY & CLINTON SUPPORTER: I'm not going to go down that road after -- after the apology. Let me just say this. There is a verifiable, document element of his campaign that are just what my colleagues said, that are racist, homophobic, xenophobic, and we've got the words out of Donald Trump's mouth. He's hired "Breitbart's" CEO. There is documentary support for this. Having said that, it's not fair to say half and she was being generalistic. I'm glad she apologized.

But who she was really trying to get at is the other group of people who feel left behind by the economy. That's who she was talking to, because many of those folks and other Republicans, who walked away from Donald Trump, aren't comfortable with that racially charged rhetoric or the Alt-Right or the white nationalist or white supremacists that he's been mainstreaming, and that does represent part of the rallies that he's so enamored about. It is an element, a large element of his supporters at those rallies.

HARLOW: I think that's an important point to dissect.

And, Scottie Nell Hughes, here's why. Because Nick Merrill, of the Clinton camp, tweeted a series of tweets last night and said there's a distinction between her saying supporters and all of the voters. Meaning he said she was only talking about the supporters, the people at the rallies, the people that Scott is talking about --

BOLDEN: Exactly.

HARLOW: -- not voters as a larger group. Semantics, parsing words, what do you make of what Nick Merrill did there?

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: First, I have to ask you, Poppy, because I've not been able to read the entire statement, does she say I'm sorry in there? Is there an actually apology --

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: She says "regrets."

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Let's pull it up. OK, let's pull it up for our viewers. "Last night, I was grossly generalistic and that's never a good idea. I regret saying half. That was wrong." She goes on to say, "It's deplorable that Trump has built his campaign on prejudice and paranoia and given a national platform to hateful views and voices." And there's more but she uses the word "regrets."

HUGHES: "Regret." There's a lot of people in jail today that regret what they did because they got caught. This is not the first time that Hillary Clinton said this comment. She said it the day before on Israeli television, CNN reporting, and there was no brouhaha about it. It's because she was saying it to a group of millionaires that paid about $50,000, some of them, to be there that day. She felt she was among her regular elitist crowd that she could make such a comment, insulting. Even if she meant 14 -- of his supporters, 14 million in the primary, that's a large number that she dissed supporters. The only reason why she is issuing it is because of the backlash of the people that she's trying to attract a vote for, but her colors have been shown by this comment once again.

HARLOW: We're going to get a break in. This conversation needs to continue after it.

Ryan Lizza, after the break, I'm going to come to you and ask you about that.

Was this an elitist statement for Hillary Clinton to make? Was she talking down to millions of Americans? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:33] HARLOW: My panel is back with me. Again, the breaking news this hour, Hillary Clinton coming out in just the past hour and apologizing, saying she regret saying that "half" of Donald Trump supporters are, quote, "a basket of deplorables."

Ryan Lizza, before the break I said I would ask you about whether or not that's an elitist comment. Scottie pointed the 14 million people that voted for Trump in the primary. Suppose there are more supporters in the general, so cut that in half, you're talking about at least seven million Americans she was referring to there. There's this perception when she speaks at these major fundraisers, like she was at here in New York last night, where she raised some $6 million, that she's just speaking to her rich supporters and not getting pressed with tough questions, until she started having those press conferences again this week. Do you read it as an elitist comment?

LIZZA: I read it as someone trying to do, frankly, what many of us have been trying to do and trying to figure out who Trump supporters are, what makes them tick, and what are the issues that drive them. If someone on one of these panels has said what she said, nobody would have batted an eyelash.

(CROSSTALK)

LIZZA: All the time we're sitting here talking about, why do people support Trump. Is it because he wants to ban Muslims and keep Latin American immigrants out of the country and deport people and because of these sort of race-based appeals, or is it economic anxiety and he's sort of pointing to something deeper in the economy? I read it as her grappling with that phenomenon. Will some read that as elitist? Maybe. She's talking to a sophisticated audience there. It's not something I imagine she'll be talking about on the stump in Pennsylvania --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: It's not the first time she said it. She said it a week ago on Israeli television. Same thing, same word.

LIZZA: That's right. I think it was reported -- I saw in "U.S. News," reported the comment as well. Sometimes something is out there but it takes someone paying attention to it to blow it up.

STELTER: And there were cameras in the fundraising, amazingly.

HARLOW: Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: Saying some people have racist views is deplorable, it's not controversial to say that racists are deplorable. It's controversial to say half of Trump supporters.

HARLOW: Half.

Guys, let's take a moment. I want -- go ahead, finish your thought, Ryan.

LIZZA: No, look, I don't know what the answer is. I don't know if it's half, if it's a quarter, if it's one percent. I don't think anyone does. Studying peoples' views on race is hard.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDEN: The number, if I may --

(CROSSTALK)

[15:20:16] BOLDEN: Using that number was offensive and wrong. But the context or the facts to support these two groups that we all would agree that support Donald Trump, that's not offensive. That's what she's going to double down on ongoing forward. But she shouldn't paint that whole group with a broad brush. She can't name all of his supporters, silent or public.

HARLOW: Let's listen to what Hillary Clinton said last night. And I want to compare it to something President Obama said when he was running and Mitt Romney.

Let's play Clinton first.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: You know, to be grossly generalistic, you can put half of Trump supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables.

(LAUGHTER)

Right?

(LAUGHTER)

The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, you name it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Now let's compare to President Obama and Mitt Romney, comments they made that stirred up controversy when they were running.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY, (R), FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR & FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): There are 47 percent of the people that will vote for the president no matter what. There are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (voice-over): Each successful administration has said that somehow these communities are going to regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter and cling to guns and religion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: There you have it, "clinging to guns and religion." The president said that was a, quote, "bone-headed comment" afterwards. Mitt Romney, with the 47 percent, regretted saying that.

Brian Stelter, to you, is there an equivalency here?

STELTER: These all happened at private fundraisers. That's why there's only audio of Romney and Obama. And I'm glad we heard all these. I want to know what these politicians really think behind closed doors at the events we can't afford to attend. I want to know how they feel about the electorate.

Frankly, those were called gaffes in 2008 and 2012. We don't have that anymore. Gaffes have been rendered obsolete by this election. There's no such thing as a gaffe anymore. It seems like Donald Trump has proved that, with a series of things that used to considered gaffes. He gets credit for saying things that are considered politically incorrect. Maybe that's what Clinton was doing last night. Maybe it's a good thing that we know what she was thinking and feeling.

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: She can say she regrets the word "half."

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: I'm not sure she regrets saying it.

HARLOW: Scottie Nell, it's interesting because, Scottie Nell, I want to get you in here. Brian talked about the lack of political correctness in what she said. That's what Trump has been saying this whole time. We're too politically correct.

HUGHES: That's true. But what I think something we have missed is how loud the audience laughed when she said "basket of deplorable." That's interesting that they laughed after it. The words, the adjectives that she used that followed it, were so bad. Those are not laughing matters, folks. If there's a group of people that is that evil, I don't want them in America. I don't believe -- I don't like them in America. They shouldn't be laughing about it. I think this goes out -- I'm trying to figure out which basket I belong into, or maybe the 54 percent of married women that are for Donald Trump, or the 55 percent of veterans that --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDEN: But, Poppy, here's the thing.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDEN: That is an element --

(CROSSTALK)

STELTER: That's part of the problem, Scottie. They are not on TV. The racists and sexists aren't booked on TV. For the most part, we keep white nationalists and racists and xenophobes off television. So we're not seeing the hate speech that happens at Trump rallies.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDEN: Here's the thing. This element, this white supremacists, this Alt-Right is an element, an important element to Donald Trump's campaign. The difference --

(CROSSTALK)

HUGHES: That's false.

HARLOW: Clarify what you're talking about, Scott. Who are you referring to?

BOLDEN: I'm talking about the Alt-Right and the white supremacist movement, who are supporting him in significant numbers. I'm saying take away the painting with a broad brush out of her comments, these two groups are real. The difference between her statement and Obama's statement and Mitt Romney's statement is that this has been a substantive narrative that Donald Trump and his campaign have brought to the table. He hired the CEO of "Breitbart" and supported and retweeted white supremacist comments and stuff. He's been xenophobic in regards to Muslims and Mexicans and African-Americans. He's done all this. And the Democrats and Hillary Clinton are simply responding to it and then he wants to cry foul. That makes no sense.

(CROSSTALK)

HUGHES: I think it's hilarious that the Democrats are trying to make themselves out to be --

(CROSSTALK)

HUGHES: -- virginist and absolutely honest. It's the exact opposite.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Guys --

(CROSSTALK)

HUGHES: -- on both sides.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: I've got to get to one other thing in here. I haven't had a moment to play this. Donald Trump said something pretty startling last night as well. He talked about what he thinks Hillary Clinton could do and not get prosecuted for, and he was talking about violence. Let's play this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[15:25:19] TRUMP: She could walk into this arena right now and shoot somebody with 20,000 people watching right smack in the middle of the heart and she wouldn't be prosecuted. OK? That's what's happened. That is what's happened to our country. I never thought --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Ryan Lizza, your thought on that? He's attacking Clinton, not her supporters.

LIZZA: I think it's a good chance she would be prosecuted if she did that. I mean, look, I think when Trump says this, he is trying to paint with a very broad brush the Justice Department and head of the FBI, who looked at the situation with Clinton's e-mails and decided that no-fair prosecutor would bring a case against her. Instead of arguing, well, wait a second, the law says this and here are some cases where that actually happened, instead of arguing what Comey said and responding to it, there's this idea now in the Trump campaign that's she's above the law. I haven't seen anyone make the counter argument to Comey that a prosecutor would have brought that case. I think it's a pretty big leap to go from, oh, she wasn't prosecuted for e-mail situation, so she could shoot someone in the heart.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: It's obviously hyperbole, but that's the point he's trying to make.

I do have to leave it there.

Ryan Lizza, Scott Bolden, Scottie Nell Hughes, Brian Stelter, thank you all.

BOLDEN: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: Be sure to watch "State of the Union" tomorrow morning. Chris Cuomo sits down for an exclusive interview with Hillary Clinton, 9:00 a.m. eastern and pacific only right here. We'll be right back.

Still come, the U.S. and Russia agreeing on a Syrian cease-fire. What will Syria's president do? That's key in all of this. What does it mean for Assad? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:45] HARLOW: Overnight, the United States and Russia agreeing to a deal that could help end one of the world's bloodiest conflicts. The pact calls for an end to the fighting in Syria, a pause in the civil war that goes back now more than five years and has devastated that nation. The deal calls for the Syrian government and opposition to respect a ceasefire that is supposed to take effect at sundown on Monday in Syria.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry announcing the ceasefire deal late Friday in Geneva.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: The United States and Russia are announcing a plan which we reduce violence, ease suffering, and resume movement towards a negotiated peace and a political transition in Syria.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: We have heard similar announcements in the past on a deal, so this one is being met with cautious optimism.

Our CNN international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson, is in Geneva for us where that deal was reached.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Poppy, there is agreement, from Secretary Kerry, Sergei Lavrov, the UN, the opposition, the Syrian government, saying this is a good deal. Despite that, there are serious concerns.

What could be some of the sticking points, the issue going forward, the opposition concern there's no real sort of punitive measures to control Assad. What's going to be done if he doesn't agree and comply? A concern on the Russian point of view of this breaking apart, the delineation between the terrorist rebel group, al Nusra, and the more moderate rebel group that have been fighting together on the battlefield. Getting them to separate will be tough. There are strong alliances formed there.

And for the opposition going forward, if this is a success, then they will want to see what hasn't happened in the past, real pressure, it would have to come from Russia, on Assad to go into political transition and leave power. This is the biggest concern going forward. Russia hasn't done that in the past.

The humanitarian effort in Aleppo, some confidence that can get going, the ceasefire can hold for a while but, in the past, these things have broken down fairy quickly. It's often been blamed, at least at the battlefield level, it's blamed on the Assad government, control of the Assad government. Precisely, how does that work?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Nic Robertson for us in Geneva. Nic, thank you very much.

Coming up, his running mate has made good on a promise to release his tax returns. So when will Donald Trump follow suit? And what are we likely to learn from his returns if we get them before November 8th? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:37:05] HARLOW: Donald Trump's running mate, Mike Pence, releasing his tax returns. They were pretty normal. They show he and his wife made $113,000 last year. As for Donald Trump, he has not followed suit. It's not likely he will before the election. He says his attorneys have told him not to release tax returns from 2009 on, because he's under audit.

I should note every presidential nominee in both parties in the last nine elections have shown their tax returns. Nixon did so in office while he was under audit.

To talk about all of this, CNN political commentator, Ryan Lizza; and "CNN Money's Jeanne Sahadi. She just wrote a piece this week called, "Why Trump Owes it to Voters to Release His Tax Returns."

Guys, thank you for being here.

Jeanne, to begin with you, here is what Trump has said. He said he, quote, "fights like hell to pay as little as possible in taxes." And he also said he's given about $100 million in recent years to charity.

Talk about the importance of seeing his taxes, to be able to not only verify the charitable giving but what else they give us in terms of the context of the man and the citizen?

JEANNE SAHADI, CNN MONEY SENIOR WRITER: He has no public service experience. He's coming to the electorate and saying you should trust me. I'm a great businessman. I make a lot of money. I know great deals. I give a lot to charity. I'm an aggressive tax -- takes aggressive tax strategies. OK. You can trust him but you have to verify.

He doesn't have to release the whole tax return. They would be too complicated. If he released the top few pages, we'd learn a lot. We'd learn about his income, charitable givings and his deductions and how much tax he's made. All his competitors have done it. There's no reason to be an exception for him. His audit is not an excuse. He's running for president.

HARLOW: His running mate just said it last night, too. We'll put pressure and we'll get to that in a moment.

But, Jeanne, a follow up. If the IRS were to finish the audit on Monday, would we know that or is it up to them?

SAHADI: It's completely up to them. If he's being audited, it's immaterial. He is not legally prohibited from releasing them. Basically, it's completely understandable why he doesn't release them. Of course, he will be scrutinized. People will say things. Media will say things. He won't like it. He's running for office in the most scrutinized position in the world. He has to be able to withstand the scrutiny.

HARLOW: It's interesting because a trump advisor told CNN recently, quote, "We just don't see much upside in releasing them."

SAHADI: There probably isn't.

HARLOW: And, Ryan Lizza --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: -- Trump said on FOX to Greta Van Susteren, talking about Mitt Romney on releasing his tax returns, that that may have cost him the election. I'm paraphrasing there.

Do you think that's odd that Mike Pence came out and released his last night? Does that put pressure on Trump to do the same?

LIZZA: It's a little strange because it makes the point that most nominees, or as you pointed out all nominees -- I don't know if every running mate has, but I assume most of them have.

SAHADI: They have.

[15:40:08] LIZZA: Thank you.

Have done this. The fact that the campaign says we don't see any upside, well, that's not the point of releasing your tax returns. That's not the point of any kind of transparency. It's not whether you see it politically advantageous to show the American people something as important as that. It's so we can scrutinize you and we can decide -- we, I mean, the public and voters -- whether there's anything we should know before we give you the most powerful position in the world.

I do think it's strange they decided to put Pence's out there. Gets it back in the news.

Look, they should get some credit for putting Pence's out. That's more information we have about this ticket.

But especially for someone like Trump, who has never been in public service, who we don't have a traditional record to scrutinize, who has very large sums of money coming in, we don't know if there's foreign income, which is very important to know, and we don't have any verification of this claim about his charitable giving, which "The Washington Post" has looked at closely and said is not true.

HARLOW: Right.

Here's what we do know, is that as a real estate developer, Jeanne, he would have had access to bigger, arguably bigger tax breaks and loopholes than any other profession because you've got depreciation, deduction, referrals on sales that lead him to say, like he did in Iowa in January, I pay as little in possible, I use every single thing in the book. There's nothing wrong or illegal with that at all. The point is we don't know anything without seeing at least the first few pages.

SAHADI: At least the first few pages. If he wanted too tell us more about his business, he could release his Schedule C, the Schedule K, which talks about his partnerships. Just the first few pages would be a good step.

HARLOW: But, Ryan, does it help a lot that Hillary Clinton refuses to release her speeches to the Wall Street banks, for example?

LIZZA: I think it's a good comeback from his campaign as a political matter.

HARLOW: Isn't there an equivalency?

LIZZA: Look, as a journalist, my view is there's nothing we shouldn't know about people running for president. It's the most important office in the land. If they did something, if they spoke to some group, we should hear about it. I will say there's not necessarily a long-established tradition of every private speech becoming public. So Clinton has a bit of wiggle room where she can claim, well --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: But most candidates have not made hundreds of thousands of dollars from Wall Street banks.

LIZZA: I think she should take the deal. I think she should say, yes, I'll release these if you release your tax returns. The public would benefit if they agreed to that.

But the Trump campaign has decided -- this is the only way to read this. They have decided that it's more advantageous for them to live with this as a political issue, with us talking about it all the time and having these questions without really knowing, that that's better than whatever is in the tax returns that would be revealed. Otherwise, they would do it.

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: They wouldn't say it exactly that way, but I talk your point.

I have to leave it there.

Ryan, Jeanne, thank you.

And, Jeanne, a fascinating piece on this on CNNmoney.com.

LIZZA: Thanks, Poppy.

SAHADI: Thank you.

HARLOW: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:47:12] Right now, Donald Trump is in St. Louis for the funeral for conservative icon, Phyllis Schlafly. We just heard him speak at her service.

Let's bring in our Kristen Holmes. She is there outside of the church where they held the service.

Talk about the connection she had, not only to the party but also to Donald Trump and this campaign? KIRSTEN HOLMES, CNN WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: In order to answer that

question, I think it's important to note who she was. She was as you mentioned a conservative icon. She was an early supporter of the religious right and a polarizing figure. She is possibly most known for her opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment in the 1970s. People give her credit for its demise, for the fact it didn't pass through Congress. Because of that, because of the time frame when that was, in the 1970s, the country was on a more liberal scale, she was viewed as an anti-feminist, a more polarizing figure.

She also -- when it comes to Donald Trump, I think we can hear almost a connection to her. He even made it today. He said, "A movement has lost an icon." You know, it's important to know he has already referred to his own campaign as a movement. Right after that, he said, "She endorsed me when no one else was," you know, when it wasn't in fashion to endorse me. I think we see the connection there. I think she had endorsed him very early on. On top of that, her latest book that just came out, "The Conservative Case for Donald Trump," said all the conservative Christians should get in line behind Trump, the evangelical leaders, Jerry Falwell Jr, Tony Perkins, and support Donald Trump's campaign.

HARLOW: Kristen Holmes, live for us in St. Louis at that funeral where we did just hear remarks from Donald Trump, thank you very much for that.

Coming up next, Donald Trump owns his, Hillary Clinton is renting hers, but the plane truth, both candidates are now flying in style.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While Hillary's is a more normally configured plane carrying 96 passengers, Trump's carries only 43, but puts them in seats adorned with the Trump family logo.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:49:28] HARLOW: Our Jeanne Moos takes a look at the campaign planes that could be coming to an airport near you.

You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right. Time for a little fun. A new dimension emerging this week in the presidential race and it is taking the competition to new heights, if you will. Hillary Clinton is using a new plane on the campaign trail as she invites the press corps on board. And s fate would have it, on its first day of service this week, it shared the same tarmac with Donald Trump's private jet.

Our Jeanne Moos has a side-by-side comparison.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MOOS (voice-over): Coming soon to campaign stops nationwide.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: The plane, the plane.

MOOS: But which plane? Is it Donald Trump's customized 757? Or Hillary Clinton's blue 737, on its maiden voyage as a campaign plane.

Hillary's ended up parked within sight of the Donald's. And Hillary was asked how she felt seeing his plane.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I didn't feel anything. Was I supposed to?

MOOS: Donald Trump's plane is more "Fantasy Island."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's 24-karat plated. You'll notice the seat belts as well as everything else are 24-karat gold plated.

MOOS: Hillary's is a more normally configured plane carrying 96 passengers, Donald Trump's carries only 43, but puts them in seats adorned with the family logo.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here we are in Mr. Trump's bedroom.

MOOS: Mrs. Clinton doesn't have a bedroom on her plane.

(on camera): One major difference? Hillary's plane is a rental.

(voice-over): While the Donald bought his jet used, it's now 25 years old.

But Donald makes up for all that gold plating by sending out photos of himself eating McDonald's and KFC, albeit with a knife and fork.

Both candidates held airborne gaggles with reporters.

CLINTON: Do you have some water?

MOOS: When Hillary had a coughing fit, "allergic to Trump," she had equipped, she broke off her gaggle.

CLINTON: I'll be back.

[15:55:12] MOOS: One critic coined the #airallergy while another Photoshopped surgical masks on the press.

MOOS (on camera): But there's no question whose plane is the bigger. The president's Air Force One.

(voice-over): Trump's is bigger than Hillary's. And the Donald told "Rolling Stone" it was bigger than Air Force One. But "The Washington Post" got the specs to prove Donald wrong.

"Pants on fire."

Better pants than an engine.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Cancer can strike anyone, any time, but did you know that each year more than 70,000 young adults right here in the United States are diagnosed with the disease? And this week's "CNN Hero" has helped thousands of young cancer patients really face their fear with a life-changing outdoor adventure. We want you to meet Brad Ludon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAD LUDON, CNN HERO: I'm working with young adults with cancer. We see a lot of them feeling like they are the only ones in the world dealing with any of the things they are dealing with. It's really important to get them together to where they can realize that other people are going through the same stuff.

From day one or the river these guys can't battle on a straight line to the last day and they're paddling class 3 whitewater. We start to see a really beautiful transformation --

(END VIDEO CLIP)