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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Panelists discuss new sentencing law regarding aimed at rapists; Maine Governor Paul LePage consider resignation. A former convicted Jihadist is now working at George Washington University. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired August 30, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:02] EVAN LOW, (D) CALIFORNIA STATE ASSEMBLY: This is to ensure that we are doing our obligation as legislators and being responsive to the people. This is an atrocious act and we want to make sure that we're taking action accordingly.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: But there is some criticism about the new sentencing law and Senator Hill, I like to get your response to it. The ACLU said, this is going to -- it's going to have unintended consequences and impact minorities especially. What's your reaction to that?

JERRY HILL, (D) CALIFORNIA STATE SENATE: Well, I don't agree with that. I think that this law is appropriate. It's very fair and it just adds clarity to what goes on. If you rape someone regardless if whether it's forcible or regardless if you lie and wait for them to get drunk or to become unconscious and then rape them, there's no difference and the penalty should be the same. It should be prison time and not probation just as we saw in Palo Alto over the case of the we're currently looking at.

So I think the other part related to Judge Persky, you -- I've been looking at some of his cases that he's had. I become a little disturbed with the fact that when you find an athlete scholar or athlete that's a student, the sentences always seemed to be a little light, lighter than it should. And his reliance on what seems to be on me probation reports.

The only person who's not in the trial, not there at all during the time is the probation officer.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

HILL: Yet, his report or her report is the one that's followed. That's not right. The Judge should be independent and make his own decisions.

BANFIELD: I'm sorry to interrupt. Assemblyman Low, I know that you haven't spoken to Emily Doe the rape survivor in the Brock Turner case directly. But you have been able to communicate with her about this. Can you just give me some feedback about her thoughts on this new law?

LOW: Well, her I identity obviously is being kept private for her own safety. But I have been in conversation with our District Attorney Jeff Rosen who has indicated that she is in support of the bill and we want to make sure that we are taking the appropriate actions.

BANFIELD: It's good that both of you took, to take time to speak with us. Thank you. Senator Jerry Hill and Assemblyman Evan Low, appreciate it. We'll watch to see what the governor does, sign it or not. Thank you.

HILL: Thank you Ashleigh.

LOW: Thank you Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: When we come back, the survivor herself with her testimony. You may not have heard these words yet. She read a letter, yes and that became public. But what did she say on the stand that convinced that jury? Her words are chilling and heart breaking and very descriptive of what happened that night. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:36:54] BANFIELD: You heard her letter to the judge but you may not have heard the Stanford rape survivor's testimony from the stand. In newly released court documents, we've learned she bravely walked up and she faced an entire courtroom to recount her version of events. It's hard to testify. The questions are frightening. There's cross examination but this young woman testified that she had no clue what happened to her that horrible night. She remembers drinking and dancing. She remembers going outside to use the bathroom with the group of her friend but then she does not remember the rape.

And I'm going to quote here. Because the prosecutor asked her, "What is your next memory after going to the bathroom outside, coming back to the patio, having a beer and seeing some of the guys shotgun some beers?. Her answer is, "I woke up in the hospital."

"When you woke up in the hospital, can you tell us -- do you have any idea what time it was?" "No."

"Do you have any idea what hospital you were at?" "No."

"Did you have any idea why you were in the hospital?" "No".

"How were you feeling when you woke up, your physical feelings?" "I woke up and I saw like dried blood on my hand and my elbows and bandages. And so I thought maybe I had fallen or I thought maybe I was in trouble and I had become too drunk and I was like in an administration office at Stanford."

She learned that very quickly afterwards, that's not why she was in the hospital. And I want to bring in the legal view here. CNN's Legal Analysts Joey Jackson and Danny Cevallos.

So guys, when we hear these kinds of accounts from the stand, this is a rape survivor who is in front of dozens of people. It's frightening, some of the questions are friendly when it's the prosecutor and some of the questions are terrifying when it's the defense attorney coming into interview you. Obviously, that's what their job is to do. This woman was physically bloody. She was injured in many ways. It's hard to sort of understand that there's some concept of consensual sex which is what a lot of the argument was when you have her describing physical bandages and blood and injuries, like this, help me get through that.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, and it's even more than what you read, Ashleigh, because you learn through her testimony and victim impact statements that she learned about what happened to her by reading a newspaper. And it was from the account of the newspaper while she was at work that she finally realizes that she's reading, this is me.

And so it's very compelling when you think about her testimony and you think about what it means and you have to credit her because of the stand she took. Through her testimony, through her victim impact statement ...

BANFIELD: Yeah.

JACKSON: ... and the result that it's causing. The legislation that's being developed as a result to ensure that people get justice, that people who do these things are held accountable.

BANFIELD: So again, we had heard a lot of details with her letter.

[12:40:02] But on the stand, there are additional details and I think this has really helped a lot of people who don't understand what happens to someone when they go to the hospital after a rape.

I do have to warn our viewers that her testimony is -- it's factual. So it's very graphic. It's uncomfortable. It's disturbing. It's not appropriate for kids. So if you got some kids in the room, either turn your volume down or maybe escort them out and give you a little moment while we get to you do that. I'll give you preamble. This is called a sexual response team exam. Just about every rape survivor who goes to the hospital gets this and it's not a sweet little interview and a glass of water.

JACKSON: Yeah.

BANFIELD: Here's how we know. This was the testimony from the stand. Question, "How would you describe the SART exam?" Emily Doe response, "Invasive. They like took a plastic beak and put it in me and they painted my vagina blue to look for abrasions. They put Q-tips in my anus. They gave me a shot for syphilis. They had me swallow pills for STDs. They tested me for HIV and told me that I should get tested again in six months because the results don't always show up immediately. They had me take off all of my clothes and put a ruler against different potential abrasions on my body and photographed those. And then they spread my legs open and they photographed my vagina."

The prosecutor asked, "How long did that process take?" And she answers, "A long time. Maybe a few hours." So, Danny, this is really uncomfortable and very painful for people to listen to. And clearly, this affected the jury. Is that description part of the injury suffered and something the jury has to take into account when thinking of guilt and then obviously later the sentencing that comes down?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's compelling testimony partly for that reason and partly because it makes the jury go through everything that the victim did in, you know, in real time almost the way she testifies.

The way she testifies as to losing memory and then going through this invasive exam, puts the jury there and it makes every injury, no matter where or when it happened very real, not only for us now reading it for the first time, but for the jury, surely, for the jury back then. It was compelling and something that just had to affect their decision to convict which is something that can only be done if they're convinced of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Marching through this testimony, the prosecutor surely knew was an effective step towards that verdict.

BANFIELD: And I'll bet that she had no idea at the time that she was testifying and then reading her letter in open court. The effect that she would have on I dare say tens of millions of people because millions of Americans have seen this and people are hearing what a SART exam is like for victims of rape. It's horrifying.

CEVALLOS: And millions don't know what a SART exam is.

JACKSON: They do know.

BANFIELD: Millions have no idea. They thought it was a couple questions maybe and off you go with an aspirin. And it is not. It's vile and disgusting. Part of the victimization process and all of this. She's a survivor and a victim and then really quickly she, you know, she was able to let us all know about this because this is making news. So she has had this impact on so many people all around the world who watch this online it became viral.

Reminder, guys. Book Friday because that is when Brock Turner gets out of jail. Yeah.

JACKSON: And briefly Ashleigh, just on the issue of this and the legislation that had led to in terms of closing a loophole in the law that says if you physically use force, then you get a minimum of three years. But if you wait until your victim is unconscious and can't consent, then there's no mandatory minimum. And so I think through her and you know, the confidence that she embodied by telling her story and leaving that victim impact for all of us to just bake it in led to the change in this law.

BANFIELD: I think we all owe a huge debt of gratitude to Emily Doe. If you are watching, thank you.

JACKSON: Yeah.

BANFIELD: Amazing. Thank you, guy, appreciate it. Danny Cevallos and Joey Jackson.

Coming up next, you have probably heard the main Governor, Governor of State of Maine, his obscenity filled voicemail and threat to a state law maker who he believes called him racist. But I bet you haven't heard the latest fallout from the rand or some of the other absolutely astounding things that he said about black people and Hispanic people. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:48:40] BANFIELD: The governor of the great State of Maine Paul LePage is considering stepping down from that office after this really obscene voicemail that he left a state law maker. The governor claims that the lawmaker called him racist. That is actually up for discussion. But I want you to hear the voicemail left by the governor in response to that.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

PAUL LEPAGE, MAINE GOVERNOR: I want you to prove that I'm a racist. I've spent my life helping black people and you little son of a (obscene term), socialist (obscene term) sucker. You -- I need you to -- just friggin'. I want you to record this and make it public because I'm after you. Thank you.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BANFIELD: You're welcome. CNN's MJ Lee joins me live. Now, with more of this. We should let you know that after that he went on to suggest that he wanted to be in a dual and shoot him right between the eyes. So it went on and on. And today it's really coming home to roost.

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yeah. Governor LePage is feeling a lot of heat right now and he gave a local radio interview where he actually suggested that he may not even finish out his term. He said in that interview, if I have lost my ability to help the people of Maine, maybe it's time for me to move on.

BANFIELD: So this at -- I mean is this that voicemail where he's enough and the suggestion that, you know, he could be in a historical duel and shoot this lawmaker between the eyes. He also said something in a Friday press conference and we want to play a sound by courtesy of the Portland Press Herald which capture these comments.

[12:50:08] Again, in front of the press, fully intended to say the following.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEPAGE: I don't care what color, when you go to war, if you know the enemy, the enemy dresses in red and you're dressed in blue. You shoot at red, don't you? Can? You have been in uniform. You shoot at the enemy. You try to identify the enemy. And the enemy like that, the overwhelming majority people to coming in of people color or people of Hispanic origin. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The enemy he's referring to people of color or people of Hispanic origin, I think he's referring to the drug epidemic that they're having in Maine. This is astounding. I mean this just had to be a bigger domino effect after that voicemail that already hit the airways.

LEE: Right. And LePage is a very controversial figure both in his State and nationally as a prominent Republican figure because of some of the things that he has said in the past that people had viewed as they're racist or inflammatory. And remember, it wasn't clear whether he would win reelection to a second term as governor. He is certainly not popular with the Democrats in the state. And I think very fascinating to watch, what happens in the contest of the 2016 election.

BANFIELD: Well.

LEE: LePage is obviously a very supportive surrogate for Donald Trump. He has campaigned with him. So maybe the Trump campaign feels like it have to respond.

BANFIELD: We'll wait to see if Donald Trump has a response to a big supporter like this who says the things that he said. MJ Lee, thank you for that. Appreciate it. We're back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:55:52] BANFIELD: A former convicted Jihadist is now working at George Washington University. Here's CNN's Elizabeth Cohen with the story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELIZABETH COHEN, SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: This U.S. citizen was once a radicalized extremist.

JESSE MORTON, FORMER AL-QAEDA RECRUITER: I went to prison for propagandizing on behalf of a terrorist organization.

COHEN: He recruited people to join Al-Qaeda.

MORTON: It became a call to go out on to your back porch and just start killing civilians.

COHEN: We couldn't tell you then what we can tell you now. His name is Jessie Morton. He has a new job as a research fellow at George Washington University center for cyber and homeland security, where he'll be doing research in writing but not teaching.

So what can you given your backgrounds contribute to this program?

MORTON: Well, I have a backgrounds if radicalizing others. I understand the mentality. I understand also what attracts people to the idealogy. I also understand how to counter that as a result. COHEN: The hope that Morton can stop others from becoming extremist but can he be trusted? Take a look at this story from CNN's Drew Griffin nearly seven years ago, when Morton called himself Yunus Abdullah Mohammed.

MORTON: We are commanded to terrorize the disbelievers. And this is a religion like I said.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're commanded to terrorize the disbelievers?

MORTON: And the Quran says very clearly in the Arabic language, 'iirhabuhum, this means terrorize them. It's a command from Allah.

COHEN: We showed this story to Seamus Hughes who hired Morton to work at George Washington.

MORTON: That's the sin. The United States that the enemy it really is.

COHEN: Is this the man that you know now?

SEAMUS HUGHES, GEORGE WASHINGTON CENTER FOR CYBER AND HOMELAND SECURITY: No, that was Jessie who he was. That's not Jessie who he is now. He is reformed. He's changed.

COHEN: Do you trust him?

HUGHES: Yes, I trust him. We did our due diligence. So I used to be at the intelligence community. I called my old colleagues, the prosecuting attorney that -- they worked on his case. I talked to the FBI of which he's been working with the last year.

COHEN: I mean you're an expert in extremists. But does he know things that you don't? It's one thing to read a book. It's another thing to experience it.

COHEN: Can you understand how someone might see this and say, I can't believe George Washington would hire this guy?

HUGHES: I absolutely understand people's concerns.

MORTON: We tell you Muslims to rise up.

COHEN: Is this the same man as I'm looking at right now?

MORTON: No, that is an ignorant man. That is a man that has been brainwashed.

COHEN: How does it make you feel to see this now? Regretful and like I want to deter others from adopting that same position.

COHEN: Jessie Curtis Morton was born in Pennsylvania 37 years ago. Was a choir boy at his grandmother's baptist church but he came from an abusive household and was in and out of jail as a young man on drug and other charges. He came into contact with radical Islamist and Co- founded a group Revolution Muslim in 2008.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jesse Morton.

COHEN: And he maintains those views while learning a master's degree in international affairs at Colombia University in 2009. At Revolution Muslim, he encouraged others to engage in violent Jihad according to U.S. attorney's office.

In 2012, Morton was sentenced to 11 years in federal prison for threatening the creators of the T.V. show "South Park," which depicted the prophet Mohammed in a bear suit. He was released after less than three years. He later cooperated with the FBI on several high profile cases, according to George Washington University.

MORTON: There's a lot of people that interacted with me in law enforcement because -- and I understand it. I was viewed as like a demon.

COHEN: He said, his de radicalization began when one FBI agent saw him differently.

MORTON: I had interaction with a fabulous agent, a female agent that overtime it became a parent to me that she was a human being. All she cared about was protecting the public. She really was like a good family person. She loves her country. And she was just -- it wasn't a manipulation as far as I saw it. And so I opened up. I was re humanized by my interactions with someone I once thought to be my enemy.

COHEN: Morton said, he hopes the American public will come to believe him and ideally forgive him.

I imagine some people would say, why should we believe this man? He was a voice for hate and a voice for violence. Why should we believe him that he's changed?

MORTON: I'll just have to prove myself and deal with the questions that come as I go. Just that I have an enormous amount of guilt and regret. This is an opportunity ...