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Trump Sending Mixed Messages On Immigration; Trump Vague On How To Deport Immigrants; Trump States Many, Many People Will Be Deported; Trump States There Is No Path To Legalization; Jeb Bush Slams Trump On Shifting Immigration Stance; Clinton And Trump Exchange Claims Of Racism; Book on Donald Trump's Life. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired August 26, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: It'll be interesting to see what happens and how the industry responds as well. Jean Casarez, thank you for that. We'll continue to follow it.

Thank you, everyone, for watching LEGAL VIEW as well. My colleague Brianna Keilar is stepping in for Wolf. She takes over right now. Have a great weekend.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, I'm Brianna Keilar in for Wolf Blitzer. It is 1:00 p.m. here in Washington and wherever you're watching from around the world, thank you so much for joining us.

We are less than 74 days now and counting until the presidential election and Donald Trump is sending mixed messages about his position on illegal immigration. Just moments ago, Trump tweeted this. He said, I am very proud to have brought the subject of illegal immigration back into the discussion. Such a big problem for our country. I will solve.

CNN Senior White House Correspondent Jim Acosta is joining us now from Las Vegas where Donald Trump will hold a fund-raiser today. Jim, people are looking at what he said each day and it's harder and harder to keep up with what his position is.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brianna. We're sort of playing this game of following the bouncing policy. That is what has been happening all week long with Donald Trump's policy on immigration.

Earlier this week, he told Fox that he was softening on immigration, that he was considering a plan that would allow the undocumented, if they have been law abiding, to stay in this country as long as they pay back taxes.

But as we heard from his interview with Anderson Cooper yesterday right here on CNN, he is not saying that at all. He is saying that the undocumented in this country, even if they have been law abiding, will have to go back to their country of origin, touch back as it's called in immigration parlance and then get in line and come back.

And that's, essentially, what his campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway, echoed earlier this morning on "Good Morning America" on ABC. Here's what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLYANNE CONWAY, MANAGER, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: He has said no path to legalization, no path to citizenship and no amnesty. You can return home, and then if you'd like to go stand in line, like everybody else is -- the thing that we learned in kindergarten, stand in line, wait your turn, go through the normal courses, then that would be evaluating on a case-by-case basis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now, I did talk to a senior Trump campaign adviser earlier this morning, Brianna. And I was asking this person because there's a report out of New Jersey saying that New Jersey Governor Chris Christie was advising Donald Trump on this and leading to this, quote, unquote, "softening of his position on immigration." This senior Trump campaign adviser says, no, that is not the case, that this is Donald Trump who is sounding out these changes, these shifts on his policy on immigration -- Brianna.

KEILAR: And, Jim, tell us a little bit about what's happening there in Nevada. This is a battleground state. Hillary Clinton has been there. She was in Reno yesterday. You have Donald Trump spending the day in Lake Tahoe and Las Vegas. What's happening there? Who's leading?

ACOSTA: Yes, according to the latest polls here in Nevada -- and as you know, Brianna, from being out here on the campaign trail many, many years, this is a particularly important battleground state. And it is -- once again, according to the latest polls, Hillary Clinton has a slight lead in Nevada.

But Donald Trump is making a big play for this state, obviously. He's going to need this state, in all likelihood, if he's -- if he has any chance of winning. And that goes to this strategy that appears to be, you know, sort of evolving inside the Trump campaign as to what his policy is on immigration.

If he can somehow land on a softer policy on immigration, that is going to appeal to Latinos, that is going to appeal to those suburban middle-class white voters who are just uncomfortable with what he has said so far on this subject. But we're going to have to wait and see.

He is going to be holding an event, a fund-raising event, here in Nevada later on tonight. We understand the cameras are going to be allowed in there so we'll be waiting to see if Donald Trump has anything new to say on this subject. It has sort of been like following a bouncing ball all week long, in terms of keeping track of this issue -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Jim Acosta in Las Vegas. Thank you.

Donald Trump says one part of his immigration plan is set. He insists that he is going to build a wall along the Mexican border. It's dealing with the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the country that then gets a little bit murky. In an exclusive interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper, Donald Trump says his first action will be to get rid of, quote, "the bad dudes."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We know the bad ones. We know where they are, who they are. We know the drug cartel people. We know the gangs and the heads of the gangs and the gang members. Those people are gone. But that's a huge number.

ANDERSON COOPER CNN CORRESPONDENT: But (INAUDIBLE.)

TRUMP: That's a huge number. No, it's not.

COOPER: But that's Jeb Bush's policy. I mean, essentially, --

TRUMP: I don't know anything about Jeb Bush. He wasn't building a wall.

COOPER: Well --

TRUMP: Jeb Bush wasn't building a wall. Jeb Bush wasn't making strong borders. And I'm not knocking Jeb Bush, but I was with him for a long time.

COOPER: Right. But he was mocked for saying that, look, you can't deport 11 million people. It now seems like -- I know you're not really focusing on it.

TRUMP: First, I want to see what's going to happen. We're going to deport many people.

COOPER: Right.

TRUMP: Many, many people.

COOPER: The vast majority of those 11 million are not (INAUDIBLE.)

TRUMP: But we don't know yet.

COOPER: They have not committed a crime.

TRUMP: We're going to find out who they are. We have crime all over this country.

[13:05:00] COOPER: If they haven't committed a crime, is there going to be a path to legalization --

TRUMP: The first thing we're going to do --

COOPER: -- (INAUDIBLE) legalization?

TRUMP: No, there's not a pass. There is no path to legalization --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: (INAUDIBLE) paying back taxes (INAUDIBLE.)

TRUMP: -- unless people leave the country. Well, when they come back in, if they come back in, the they can start paying taxes.

COOPER: So, they still have to wait the time?

TRUMP: There is no path to legalization unless they leave the country and come back.

COOPER: So, that means, of the 11 million who are here, even if they haven't committed a crime --

TRUMP: Well, you don't know -- again, you keep saying 11 million. You don't know what the number is. You know, millions of people --

COOPER: Well, however many. That's the estimate.

TRUMP: -- and using the existing laws of our country, using the existing laws, millions of people are deported every year.

COOPER: Right.

TRUMP: You know that, right?

COOPER: Yes.

TRUMP: You know, people don't talk about that. It's Obama. They don't talk about that.

COOPER: Right. He's deporting a lot of people.

TRUMP: But you have a lot of people being deported. We're going to do that vigorously. We're going to go with the laws that are existing. But we're going to have a very strong border, and we're not going to have people pouring back in. And when these people, the drug lords and all of these guys that are thrown out, they're not coming back into the country.

COOPER: So, if you haven't committed a crime and you've been here for 15 years and you have a family here, you have a job here, will you be deported?

TRUMP: We're going to see what happens once we strengthen up our border. We're going to have a strong border, as strong as any border there is anywhere in the world. We're going to have a real wall. We're going to have tremendous protection, both technological protection and everything else, and then we're going to see what happens.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Let's bring in now our panel to try to decipher Donald Trump's latest position on immigration. Rebecca Berg is a CNN Political Analyst and national political reporter for "Real Clear Politics." And Matea Gold is a national reporter for "The Washington Post." Earlier in the week, Donald Trump, himself, talked about a softening. That is a word that came out of his mouth to describe what he was considering. And, yet, it seems like now he's moving back towards a harder line.

And we've heard from, for instance, Congressman Steve King. Very conservative who said he feels better now about what he's heard from Donald Trump. You had Sarah Palin saying that Trump had been wishy- washy. So, was he sort of feeling out a softening and now he's realizing, I just -- this is not feasible?

MATEA GOLD, NATIONAL REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": I think what's clear is over the summer, he was getting a lot of feedback from top Republicans, from donors saying you have to take a different posture on this issue. So, that led to a consideration of a change in rhetoric but there doesn't appear to have been an analysis of what the policy would be behind that rhetoric.

And so, in real time, we're really seeing him trying to adjust his position. Even polling audiences with Sean Hannity saying, what should I do? And multiple times last night not really being able to answer the question that Anderson posed to him, what does this mean for people who are in this country without proper documentation but who haven't committed a crime? And he's going to have to answer that question in this speech coming up that he's promised to give.

KEILAR: If ever there was someone, Rebecca, who might be able to say to his supporters who really do want to hard line on immigration -- but if ever there was someone who had the buy in, which he does, and say, OK, yes. But this is how I'm going to do it and I'm going to sell you something. You would think it might be Donald Trump.

But is he confronting the reality of the fact that this is why people flock to him because he said build a wall, because there was talk of a deportation force? And if he goes astray from that, it's just a -- it's just a nonstarter for all of them?

REBECCA BERG, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, sure, there's definitely a concern that some of his core supporters could be really upset by any substantial change in policy or even in tone when it comes to immigration. Because, as you said, part of his initial attraction for many of these people was not only the build a wall promise, which is a big part of it, but also this promise that he would deport people who are in this country illegally and uphold the laws of this country, as he said.

So, it's not necessarily a concern that some of these people would then go and support Hillary Clinton, because she is so far from where they are, in terms of policy and tone, that it's really implausible.

But you do have to start to worry, if you're Donald Trump and his campaign, about enthusiasm. And especially if we wake up on the morning of November eighth, he is trailing in many polls, or even before then if you take into account early voting.

And maybe some of these people will then decide, well, Donald Trump isn't what we thought. Maybe we won't just turn out to vote, ultimately. And that's a big concern for them.

KEILAR: Because he is relying on some people who aren't normally likely voters, right? So, he's sort of turned some people into that.

BERG: Sure.

KEILAR: I want you to listen to what Jeb Bush said. Obviously, Jeb Bush was much -- well, from a Republican point of view, softer on immigration. We certainly heard that. But this is what he is now saying in a radio interview as he blasts Donald Trump.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't know what to believe about a guy who doesn't believe in things. I mean, he doesn't -- he -- this is all a game. He doesn't -- his views will change based on the feedback that he gets from a crowd or, you know, what he thinks he has to do. Life is too complex. For me, I couldn't do that. I have to believe what I believe. And if it's popular, great. And if it's not, I try to get better at presenting my views. But shifting my views because it's political to do it, that's what politicians do in this country. That's what Trump is trying to right now. I find it abhorrent.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

[13:10:07] KEILAR: Matea, Donald Trump is in a very -- I mean, that's kind of the I told you so. But Donald Trump is facing this very real conundrum of a big chunk of the Republican Party is saying, no. Build the wall. Deportation force. No one has a pathway. And then, you have the other larger chunk feeling about this the way Jeb Bush does.

GOLD: Well, and I think what Governor Bush is getting at is something that's incredibly risky for Donald Trump right now. At the core of his appeal is the sense that he tells it like he sees it. He doesn't adjust his views to be politically expedient. And he runs the risk of having people think now that he's adjusting his policy because he's entered the general election, that he has to appeal to Latinos who feel incredibly turned off by his candidacy. And that's going to be a very tricky balancing act for him.

And it'll be interesting to see in this speech, once it finally does come out, how he manages to balance those pledges of security of saying he's going to have a deportation force earlier this year, with now some realities about what the immigration policy entails.

KEILAR: He's under a lot of pressure to come up with a coherent message next week, right?

BERG: Oh, absolutely. I mean, we've seen him just, within this past week, vacillate between a legal -- a path to legalized status for people who immigrated to this country illegally but have been upstanding citizens with no criminal records since then, to what we heard from his interview with Anderson Cooper last night, Brianna, that he would require these undocumented immigrants to leave the country, return to their country of origin and return to the United States before they could earn that legalized status. Which is a policy, I think, many Republicans even would say is unrealistic. Why not just deport them, at that point if they're going back to their country of origin?

So, there's really been no consistency from Donald Trump, in terms of policy. In part, because he hasn't really specified, at any point, or gone into the specifics of what his plan would be. Now, he's being pressed to do so and certainly that's going to be difficult for him, based on what we've seen so far.

KEILAR: I want to talk to you now about Hillary Clinton, because she is responding to, obviously, some of this fall out from the Clinton Foundation. And just a lot of people saying, look, there's the appearance of a conflict of interest. You should have, sort of, with this plan, with Bill Clinton stepping off of the board, with not accepting corporate or foreign donations, if she is elected president. Some people are saying, you know, you should have done this sooner. But she's also now saying that they're looking for partners to take over some of the work of the Clinton Foundation. Let's listen to what she said on MSNBC.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I appreciate, you know, the concerns that people have expressed. And that's why I made it clear that if I'm successful in November, we are going to be taking additional steps. But the fact is winding down some of these programs takes time. You don't just turn on an off and on switch. Even trying to negotiate with partner groups takes a lot of serious efforts. I know the foundation is looking for partners but that's going to take some time to carry out.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KEILAR: Yes, it does take time and she's had years is -- when I hear her say that, I wonder why, perhaps, did the Clinton Foundation not have a plan for this sooner? They knew this was going to be a problem, the foundation.

BERG: Right, beginning last year when she started running. And I think you've a lot of Republicans say, if this is a potential conflict of interest for the president of the United States, why wasn't it a conflict of interest for the secretary of state?

This is all been amplified because she's in the middle of this huge fund-raising spree right now raising huge dollars for the Democratic Party for some of the very donors who have been major supporters of the Clinton Foundation. I think that just puts another spotlight on what has been this vulnerability for her which is her long-standing connection to these donors and a perception that they have access to her, at the very minimum.

KEILAR: Do you -- so, do you feel like it was a last-minute decision that they -- maybe Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton had a sense that, OK, this isn't going to go away; we have to deal with this? Or -- because it seems like it wasn't something that was seen in the works a year ago to make this change.

GOLD: Sure. I'm sure this question has crossed their minds prior to this stage. What is possibly detrimental to their campaign is that they didn't start this discussion publicly until there was this very searing criticism of the Clinton Foundation and this spotlight on some of the connections between the foundation and the State Department that raised these questions of, OK, what was the conflict of interest then? Is there going to be a conflict of interest if Hillary Clinton is in the White House?

I would say, if you had, you know, raised this a year ago, it would be far less -- voters would be far less skeptical of how serious they are about putting up a firewall. But because they're raising this now when they're under this very intense scrutiny, people start to question. Well, what are their motives here? Are they serious?

KEILAR: It's so close to election.

[13:15:00] All right, Rebecca Berg, Matea Gold, thank you so much to both of you.

Coming up, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton trading jabs, but it's not over policy, it's not over the issues or the polls, they're accusing each other of bigotry and hate. All of this as Maine's governor challenges a lawmaker to prove he's racist. Much more ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: For the past two weeks, Donald Trump has been making an aggressive push for minority voters. He's trying to cut into Hillary Clinton's lead among African-Americans and Hispanics, like the one in this Quinnipiac University national poll. You see there, 77 percent of non-whites are for Clinton, 15 percent only, mostly Hispanics, are for Donald Trump. The Republican presidential candidate talked about his message in an exclusive interview with our Anderson Cooper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I think we're going to do well with the African-Americans because they're going to give me a chance because, frankly, look what she's done. What's to give a chance? I mean she's been a disaster.

The inner cities are worse than they've ever been. You have 40 percent rates of poverty. You have black youth, they can't get jobs. Fifty- eight percent can't get jobs. Education is a disaster. They've been talking about this since I was five years old and understood what was going on. They have been talking about this for years.

[13:20:04] Hillary Clinton talks about it all the time. She has done a horrible job. And then you add all of the scandal and the lies and the deception to the e-mails. She should be in jail. Hillary Clinton should be in jail. You know it. The FBI director knows it. Everybody else knows it. She should be in jail. What she did with erasing 33,000 e-mails, she shouldn't be out even talking about inner cities or running for president. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Comments like those from Donald Trump have become the basis of his outreach to minority voters, telling them they might as well vote for him because their lives are already in bad shape.

And here to talk with me about Donald Trump, his candidacy, his campaign and the man himself is Marc Fisher, senior editor for "The Washington Post," and Michael Kranish, investigative political reporter for "The Washington Post." They've written a new book. It's called "Donald Trump Revealed."

And Donald Trump had a very public battle with your newspaper. So I want to talk a little bit about that. That was sort of ongoing as you're doing this. And - but you still got a considerable amount of access to him. Tell me about that.

MARC FISHER, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE WASHINGTON POST": He really did. He gave us more than 20 hours of interviews for this book, which was obviously in stark contrast to what he was saying at rallies where he was bashing "The Washington Post" and many other news organization and calling the reporters low lifes and that sort of thing. There's a big difference between what he does for applause at a rally and what he does in private, where he was generous and gracious with us and sat and took all questions. He didn't answer all of them directly, but he -

KEILAR: Sure.

FISHER: He took them all, which is more than you can say about his opponent. And so we were very pleased by the relationship we had with him. Of course since the book came out, he's taken a little bit of a different tone.

KEILAR: Yes, that's right.

OK, let's actually read that tweet. And - but I do want to mention something, which is, I found the same thing when I interviewed him, that I was very - I don't want to say surprised, but because he is so brash sometimes, he was very gracious to have me there to interview him. He was exceedingly polite. You know, kind of gave me a hard time during the interview, but you also had a feeling that he was being a good sport about it. You know, was that your experience as you interviewed him?

MICHAEL KRANISH, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Oh, absolutely. He spent hours with us and hours with our colleagues from "The Washington Post." Had us to Trump Towers twice. Showed us the wall of all the magazine covers about himself. The magazine covers on his desk. So he's very proud to show that off and he does like to show those things off in person.

KEILAR: OK, so this is what he tweeted. He said - and then we're going to get to what's in the book. "'The Washington Post' quickly put together a hit job book on me comprised of copies of some of their inaccurate stories. Don't buy. Boring." But I also am looking at the back of the book, which tells a different story. At first he says on April 12th, he's not going to be reading it. You know, he's poo pooing your book. But then April 21st he says, "if it's a bad book, it would be detrimental to me. It shouldn't be a bad book. If you're going to do it, we might as well try and get it right. That's why I'm talking to you." And then he tells you that same day, "this is a lot of fun. Let's keep talking."

FISHER: He kept expanding the length of our interviews. Double, triple the time because he was learning stuff from us about his family and because he wanted to tell stories about his past. He's, obviously, his favorite subject is Donald Trump, and that's what we were asking about.

KEILAR: And you also asked about some very serious topics, for instance immigration, which is something that is on the minds so much of so many people right now as we await his speech. What was it that you learned from him - if I can just read this quote, because he ridiculed Mitt Romney's, quote, "crazy policy of self-deportation, which was maniacal." That's his word. "It sounded as bad as it was," he said in 2012. "And he lost," Romney, "all of the Latino vote. He lost the Asian vote. He lost everybody who is inspired to come to this country." He's almost talking there about immigrants who are inspired to -

KRANISH: Right.

KEILAR: For - by the American dream, which is different than what we hear.

KRANISH: When you read that quote, which he said after Romney lost the election, I mean it's extraordinary his analysis and then to turn around and propose a forced deportation policy, which essentially is what he proposed when he announced in June 2015. So he looked back and he had a very different view then and it has to do with his changeability. That chapter - there's a chapter in the book called "political chameleon," and the reason we felt justified and fair in using that title is that, here's a man, he's changes party affiliations seven times, Democrat, Republican, independent, reform party candidate, Republican. He's changed his position on many issues, immigration, taxes. And so I asked him, what do you say to people who ask whether you have any core beliefs given all of these changes? And his response wasn't to pound his fist on the table and said, you know, yes, I do have these core beliefs and they're so and so. He said, you know, I'm a business person. I want to be friends with people who are in office at the time.

KEILAR: Yes.

KRANISH: So we look at it a very pragmatic, not an ideological way.

KEILAR: Some interesting things in this book and one that struck me was an admission when you talked to him about what he reads, and specifically about whether he's read a biography of a past president. He told you he has not ever. FISHER: Yes. I was curious because here he is just weeks away from

possibly becoming the next president of the United States and I said, well, are you thinking about how you're going to be making decisions, who you're going to be modeling yourself after. So I said, have you read any biographies of great presidents? And he said, you know, I've always wanted to, but I've never had the time. So I pushed a little further. Well, what do you read then? And it turns out, he really doesn't care to read that much. He doesn't like when people bring him big reports or briefings. He likes to make decisions from the gut. He believes strongly in his own instinct. His -

[13:25:21] BALDWIN: Common sense, right?

FISHER: Exactly. He believes that he can feel what a crowd wants, as we see with some of his policy changes. And he's skeptical of people who write and read big, long reports.

KEILAR: That's a - I mean that's incredibly interesting that it seems like you describe him as having a limited attention span, but also being somewhat self-aware that he does, right?

KRANISH: Right. I mean he is very focused on what he knows best. So as a builder, he's very expert in the business that he does. Whether he is as curious about things around the world, you can see the sense that he is learning on the go. This is, after all, a man who's never been in public office. That's extremely unusual. Usually when someone runs for president, they've been through this before. They've run for a local office for the Senate, for the House and so they've been through a lot of issue briefings before. Trump has made up his own mind. He basically is this provocateur and he comes to his own thoughts and that was very successful during the primaries. But now you see it's difficult. You can see him almost trying to stretch and pull back as he tries to court more voters for the general election.

KEILAR: There are many things in here like this. He hasn't read a biography of a president. He doesn't read much, as you said. He has a limited attention span. He doesn't have many friends, you reveal in the book, as well. So he's looking at that and he's saying, come on, this is a hit job. Supporters of his say this is a hit job. So what do you say to people who may accurately look at your book and say, this does not paint a particularly flattering picture of Donald Trump?

FISHER: You can pull things out that are - that are highly critical and you can pull things out that are hugely supportive. What you'll find is that this is a book that spans from his ancestry back in Scotland and Germany, all the way up through the Republican convention. And at every turn we're looking at why - how did he succeed? How did he run into trouble? And so it's not a pro-book, it's not an anti-book, it's a biography that tells the whole story. This is a man who's had enormous successes. It's also a man who's had six corporate bankruptcies. This is a man who has won people over, who believe in him strongly. It's also people who find him - find him offensive and insulting. So the roots of all that are what we try to get at. What - what is it about his family, his upbringing. All of those stories, we've talked to hundreds of his classmates, neighbors and so on and I think you get a good sense of where this all came from.

KEILAR: It is a fascinating read, I will say that, and it really helps, in a way, create a record of someone who doesn't have a traditional one, as well.

Marc Fisher, Michael Kranish, thanks to both of you for joining me today.

Coming up, a sitting governor threatening another lawmaker in a voice mail so vulgar we've had to bleep out a word. A good portion of it, I should say, not just a word. Some of you, I will warn, might still be offended.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. PAUL LEPAGE, MAINE (voice-over): Mr. Gattine, this is Governor Paul Richard LePage. I would like to talk to you about your comments about my being a racist, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And that's really just the beginning of it. We'll have you listen to the rest right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)