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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Explosion and Gunfire at American Univ. in Kabul; Deadly Earthquake in Italy. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired August 24, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:00] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

And we're following this breaking news out of Afghanistan. Reports of an explosion, along with heavy gunfire, heard from coming from the American University in Kabul.

I want to get straight to CNN's senior international correspondent Nima Elbagir, who is standing by live. And also with us is CNN's senior media correspondent Brian Stelter, who's following what journalists there are seeing and saying, along with CNN military analyst, retired Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, who has spent a lot of time in this region, and CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes, who's going to join us with more on the tactical effort to stop what's happening.

Nima, first to you. Tell us what's happening at this school, what the circumstances are right now.

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, as we understand it, this is an ongoing standoff. This is an ongoing situation. What we're hearing from - what we've managed to glean from the tweets and the news that has managed to leak out is that there are students trapped within these buildings and it makes very difficult reading to see some of what they're putting out there, desperate pleas for help, some feeling that this is potentially a hostage situation, talking about the ongoing gunfire, reporting that female student have broken down into tears.

This is the second such incident within this month at the American University, Ashleigh. About two weeks ago, about ten days ago, two faculty members were kidnapped. That crime is still unsolved. One Australian and one American. And although, of course, we don't as yet know the identity of the assailants, it's very difficult to not take away from the fact that this is the American University. That this was intended to be a symbolism of lasting American influence in Afghanistan. And this could be associated with any of the numerous terror groups that operate in Kabul, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And, Nima, just before I get to the incredible communications that are coming out from those who are trapped and those who have tweeted from inside the crisis, remind me who these student are and - I mean, from what I gather, that university has produced 29 Fulbright scholars. This is a very elite university. Who are the 1,700 plus students that go there?

ELBAGIR: This is a - it is a very prestigious organization. This really is somewhere where not only those who are perceived to be the elite and the potential elite, the leaders of the future in Afghanistan, go. They are also scholarships. This was supposed to be a pathway to a better life for so many of those who are attending this institution. And that has been why they have been targeted so ruthlessly both now and in the past because to attain that they have had to bring in faculty members from all around the world. And with that, of course, comes the higher visibility and really the higher the value of so many of those inside that building right now, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And let me just give this urgent to our viewers, that the news is trickling in on what's happening there. There are apparently fires that are burning very badly. The police and the ambulances that have responded to this situation are unable to actually enter this university complex because it's just too dangerous at this time.

Brian Stelter, you've been working you media sources over there. You've also been seeing some of the tweets coming from some of the students who are trapped. What are you finding out?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I think this really personalized the story to see accounts from two journalists who happen to be at or near American University in Kabul when this happened. One of the reporter was able to escape the scene, a reporter who works for CBS News, saying that he and his friends escaped but several of his other friend and professor were trapped inside.

Who we're most concerned about among the journalists who are there is an Afghan photographer named Masud Hasani (ph). I believe we can show one of his comments on screen. What is so scary about his story, his account, is that he tweeted, we're asking for help, shortly before 11:00 a.m. Eastern Time here in the U.S.

BANFIELD: Inside the complex?

STELTER: Inside the complex. He tweeting at one point saying he was wounded, then deleted that. But he then tweeted, and this is the last thing he has posted on his social media account saying, "help, we are stuck inside AUAF," that's the American University. He says there was shooting followed by an explosion. He finished his tweet by saying, "this may be my last tweet." So just an agonizing thing to say.

BANFIELD: Have we heard from him since then?

STELTER: So he has not posted anything since then. The best understanding I have from my sources is that he is OK but is requiring medical attention. So he may well have been wounded in this but was able to be - to be removed.

BANFIELD: The story that is repeating itself.

STELTER: This is just one story of potentially dozens or hundreds. This person happened to be a journalist there. By the way, a Pulitzer Prize winning photographer, working for the AP at the time. We're going to hear, I'm sure, dozens of other people's accounts. But this is just one person who was seeking help via Twitter at this moment and may have been able to escape.

BANFIELD: it's becoming all too familiar that we're hearing firsthand live accounts through Twitter.

STELTER: That's right.

BANFIELD: Some of the first pictures are now coming into us here at CNN. I only have a couple to show you so far. These are still pictures that have been fed into our offices of some of the activity outside of the American University. And this looks to be potentially the inside of an ambulance, potentially, with somebody who was injured.

[12:05:11] STELTER: Think about night time there. Student there taking night time classes or studying -

BANFIELD: Yes.

STELTER: In what they thought was a relatively safe space.

BANFIELD: So, again, just some of the first pictures and only pictures, but we are working to get some of our satellite imagery in quickly to bring you as much of the scene as we can at this point.

But I've got - I've got to harken back to just a couple of weeks ago with the kidnapping of those two professors, one American, one Australian, both kidnapped outside of this facility. The facility itself was shut down. The operations were shut down, only to be opened up the following Wednesday. So presumably the operations were as per usual at this university when this attack began.

We're joined now on the phone by freelance journalist Zakarya Hassani. He is in Kabul.

What can you tell us thus far about what's happening at the university?

ZAKARYA HASSANI, FREELANCE JOURNALIST: Well, it was about 7:30 -

BANFIELD: Zakarya, can you still hear me? We've lost you. Can you repeat what you were saying?

Zakarya Hassani is a freelance journalist who's just joined us by phone. I think we may have lost his signal. If we could just reestablish that signal and maybe tap into what Zakarya knows about the attack.

In the meantime, Colonel Francona and FBI assistant director - former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes are with me as well.

Rick, from your knowledge, this is still - be it a city, be it Kabul, be it an elite university, it is still considered a war zone. It is still dangerous to move freely around Kabul, as is evidenced by what happened just three weeks ago with the kidnappings. But I am interested to find out that they reopened operations there. What would have been different in that this resulted just weeks later?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, here's the problem. Once you have one of these instances, your immediate response is to ramp up your security and you go to a much higher footing. You can only maintain that for so long and pretty soon it tapers off. When nothing else happens, you start to relax that and get back into a normal posture. If you're the Taliban or whoever - whatever group conducted this operation, you just wait until the security gets back down to a level that you think you can exploit. And I think that's what's happened here.

BANFIELD: So, Tom Fuentes, you know, we know so little about what's happening. We know there were explosions that were heard. We know that there is this fire that's burning out of control at this point. So much so that the, you know, first responder can't get in. They can't get access inside this complex to rescue those who may be still trapped inside. I - I mean this is a really complex question given that we can't even see the area just yet, but what is happening with those first responders and with those elite forces who are then now trying to combat terrorists and, at the same time, rescue those who are in a burning building?

TOM FUENTES, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, that's the problem, Ashleigh, the fact that there is a burning building, the fact that you have people that need to be rescued and medically taken care of, and that makes it more difficult for any kind of a counter assault, let's say, on the facility, to go after whoever is holding them hostage. So, you know, you've already had gunfire, you've already had explosives, and, you know, any attempt to go in there now will probably result in additional gunfire, in additional casualties and they're going to have to weigh that whether against the fact of doing next to nothing and just waiting until a better time. There's going to be no real negotiating with people that are doing this. They typically are on a suicide mission and won't care. So that makes it more difficult to try to resolve this situation without further innocent loss of life.

BANFIELD: And, Rick Francona, there are, you know, recurring instances of the tactics, where these terrorist attacks are concerned, of secondary attacks. The first explosions go off. The first gunfire is heard. And there's a lull so that the security forces and the first responders can come in and then the secondary attacks begin. I can only assume they are all too aware of that when responding in a city like Kabul.

FRANCONA: Yes, and this is - this is what's going through the calculus right now as to what we do. The special forces are on the scene and they have to make a decision. Do we, as Tom said, do we mount an attack new or do we wait until the situation stabilizes? You know, the current thought is that the longer you wait, the more casualties you take. But they do have to be very concerned about what's going on. So they have to secure that perimeter before they can work on what's going on inside the perimeter. BANFIELD: All the while those people who are holed up inside and are

sending out these tweets of their terror indicating to us just how fearful they are.

Brian Stelter, you've been watching these tweets come in. I was - I really need to know when you hear from that - that journalist who said it might the last tweet.

STELTER: Yes, and, unfortunately, there's no word. This is, you know, one of the only people who was there that was tweeting in English. We've seen other comments posted in other languages, other students who were trapped inside. According to a post at least just from 10 minutes ago. So we have a sense it is an ongoing situation.

[12:10:05] The journalist we mentioned a few minutes ago, this Afghan photographer, a Pulitzer Prize winning photographer. Well-known among Afghan journalists. He posted right before - about - I guess 75 minutes ago at this point, saying he needed help. That he was hearing these explosions. That he was would this would be his last post that he could put on to FaceBook and Twitter. My understanding at this moment is he is OK, but he is requiring medical attention. Surely not the only person now on the way to a hospital there.

BANFIELD: We're going to continue to watch just what those developments are.

In the meantime, if I could ask Tom Fuentes, this is an international student body, represented by dozens of countries. Clearly, you know, Tom, there's going to be a number of different languages spoken. A number of different cultures represented. People will look particularly different. And that must also present a challenge for those who are trying to communicate from the outside to rescue them.

FUENTES: Well, that's true, but I think that, you know, the main challenge for the authorities that have the facility surrounded is to find out exactly how many people are inside that are going to be the enemy, what kind of weaponry do they have, how many with guns, what type of guns, where are they located within the facility if that can be determined. So there's a lot of information that they still want to get before they charge in there.

And I think you're right, as far as trying to communicate with all of the different students in there, the question would be, being the American University, do most of them speak English and they'd be able to be contacted over English social networks. And that may be ongoing now. We don't know for sure. But, you know, the challenge again is for authorities to figure out at what point does waiting result in more casualties and they just have no choice but to go ahead and make an assault and try to rescue as many as possible.

BANFIELD: And, again, just to - just to, you know, reiterate our breaking news that's just been happening in the last hour, gunfire, explosions being heard at Kabul University. And if that's familiar to you, it's because only three weeks ago we brought you the story of a frightening kidnapping that happened outside of that campus, an American and an Australian, two of them professors that university kidnapped and their whereabouts are unknown. Now, just several weeks later, after the university closed and reopened its operations, now comes the news of this terrifying situation. And the fires apparently burning so badly at this point that the police and the first responders cannot even enter this complex at the American University at Kabul.

We're going to continue to watch. And as we get information and more images in from the university, we are going to bring you up to speed on that.

But we're also watching another disaster that's been, you know, unraveling in central Italy. A place that typically delights with its images is now haunting us. The photographs coming out of the area in Italy wracked with an earthquake. Absolutely terrifying. We're going to bring these images to you, share these images with you, update the death toll and tell you where this community goes from here.

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[12:16:51] BANFIELD: We are following the other break news out of central Italy, where a powerful earthquake has killed at least 73 people at last count, but its potentially left even more trapped beneath rubble piles like this. They are working feverishly as we speak. They are racing against time and desperately searching for survivors using any means they can.

In this video taken just hours ago, look closely. That is a woman, a woman, beneath chunks of concrete. The only thing you can see on the right-hand side of the screen is her hand. The only thing that's coming out of that concrete. There's a man at her side comforting her until help arrives. There are other survives who are describing the terrifying moment that the world crumbled around them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF ACHTNER, RETIRED JOURNALIST (voice-over): I even turned around for a moment because it felt as though someone was trying to play a joke on me and pull me off - out of my chair. So I turned around but then I realized the house was shaking and it was an earthquake.

EMMA TUCKER, WITNESSED EARTHQUAKE: It was 3:30 in the morning. Dead of night. And even though I've never lived through an earthquake before, I woke up. The house was shaking very intensely. There was the most appalling noise. A rumbling like thunder. Like a great big machine was approaching the house. And, you know, I don't know what an earthquake was, but I've never lived through one, but I was in no doubt. My husband sat up. We all started yelling at the kids to come down. We then got out of the house and sat in the garden. The electricity was gone. We couldn't see where we were going. We all then sat there wondering what on earth to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Right now the exact number of people who are missing are unknown and that's why dogs like this are scouring the rubble piles looking for them. We don't even know at this point what the crews are dealing with. Piles upon piles of stone, metal, tile. It is extraordinarily dangerous. All of this the remnant of what just hours ago was a series of beautiful homes and shops and restaurants. The likes of which attract tourists from America on a regular basis.

We're going to zero in now to the epicenter. So look at your map. This is Amatrice. It's about 100 miles outside, to the northeast of the town of - of the city of Rome. And the mayor of Amatrice says that his town is, quote, "no more." Those were the words he used, "no more."

CNN's Fredrik Pleitgen is on the ground right there at the epicenter and CNN meteorologist Chad Myers is also with us. He's been looking at the seismic aspect of this disaster.

Fred, I want to begin with you. I can see behind you what only I can imagine used to be a beautiful probably over hundred-year-old building. But take me there and tell me what you're seeing.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you're absolutely right, Ashleigh. It's an absolute tragedy. Some of these buildings, of course, 500, 600 years old.

I want to get out of your way so you can see the actual destruction here right in the epicenter of where this earthquake hit. You can see they're using some sort of excavator right now to try and tear down a wall over there. Right - if we pan back to our left a little bit, we'll see that.

[12:20:06] Crews here have been working for hours and hours, sifting through the rubble. They think that under some of these buildings, people might still be trapped. Some people have been saved here from the rubble in the past couple of hours. But, of course, as you've noted, the death toll continues to rise. And here Amatrice here really is the town that was the hardest hit. As you noted, the mayor here said, our town doesn't exist anymore. And in many ways you can see that he's actually right. If we pan real quickly, you can see this beautiful very, very old, several-hundred-year-old yellow house. And then you can see there's a bit hole in the side. There's just the facade standing of that house. Everything else is gone.

One of the big problems that the rescue crews have here as they try to deal with this disaster is they have trouble getting into these little villages because, you know, this part of Italy is so picturesque and the roads are so old that they're very narrow and some of them, of course, are now covered in debris. So they're having trouble bringing some of that very heavy equipment that they need to save people into these little towns. Very, very difficult.

I just went down the main access road to Amatrice and there's a lot of trucks standing there with mobile clinics, with mobile operation rooms, also with ambulances, having a lot of trouble getting them in right now, but they certainly are trying because they know, Ashleigh, the first 72 hours after a disaster like this are absolutely key. They believe people who are trapped under the rubble, that about how long a human being can survive.

BANFIELD: You know, Fred, you just hit the nail on the head with the images we're seeing. It's hard to fathom just how picturesque that little village was at one time, seeing it just literally in rubble right now.

Being that the roads, as so many people know, in Italy are so narrow and that heavy equipment can't get in there, what about just first responders, people, dogs, the kinds of, you know, responders that can actually dig and find survivors in those critical 72 hours? Do they at least have that?

PLEITGEN: Yes. They have that. And they're trying to get that in there as best as possible. Again, it's not easy, but they're trying. And there's another picture that really illustrates that. if we pan into that, that's the main road over there of Amatrice. And as you can see, it's absolutely packed with trucks. So there's heavy equipment that's working there. They're doing their best to try and navigate those areas. What we've seen here is we've seen teams with dogs that are going through some of these buildings trying to find survivors. We've obviously seen - also seeing first responders there with their bare hands.

The way that all of this has been unfolding, since the very early morning hours, is that in the beginning it was a very local response to this. Really local towns people and some local officials as well who are digging through this rubble with their bare hands. And as all of this has gone on, more and more assets have arrived. There's helicopters that I'm hearing now that are hovering over us. There's also the army that's now trying to get in as well.

Again, it's not happening as fast as many here would like. However, it is really a national effort where they're trying to mobilize all the assets they have. And, of course, as you know, dogs are one of the most important things really sifting through the rubble. Their noses can find people really very deep down where a lot of technical equipment even can't. And that certainly is also a priority here on the ground as well.

In fact, if you can pan over there, you can see there is a team right now with a dog that's actually going towards the rubble right now, going there into the center of town where there is a lot more destruction than what we're seeing right here. So this really is the hardest hit town and again the place where the mayor of this town has said our town does not exist anymore. However, there are people still trapped under the rubble and you noted the death toll just continues to rise. It's absolutely tragic.

BANFIELD: You can see the - you can just see the urgency and those responders around you. I'm going to ask Chad Myers a question, but in the meantime, Fred, ask your cameraman if that - if the helicopters, you know, end up in our purview, if you could just train maybe the image on the helicopters so that we can see what they're - they're doing.

Chad, the concern I think so many people have when they're, as Fred just said, digging with their bare hands through what can only be so unstable, aftershocks. I mean give me the seismological rundown of this disaster. CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Italy saying they have already seen

more than 60 aftershocks, many of them very small, but there was one sort of at 5.5. This was a very shallow quake and I'm going to get to that in a second, Ashleigh. Very close to Umbria (ph) right through here in the central part. I'm going to say the further you get away from the shaking, the less the shaking is. But if you have this shaking that occurs very close to the surface, two miles under the surface was the shake, it was - that would be just like a fracking quake, very close, very shallow to the surface. Think about this, if you only have two miles before it hits the land, everywhere up here is going to be devastated. If you move this 70 miles down into the earth's crust, then all of a sudden you have 70 miles to move away from the focus itself, which was way down here.

That didn't happen. This was not a deep quake. This was not a thunder rolls kind of song, you know. This was a bam. This was like getting hit by lightning only a block away, not 10 miles away, where you have a chance to attenuate some of that power.

BANFIELD: It makes a lot of sense as to why it was such a - the response that those eye witnesses gave us -

[12:25:03] MYERS: Yes.

BANFIELD: Saying that it felt like a heavy machine was rolling next to them.

Chad, keep an eye on things for us. Let us know about the aftershock story.

Fred, same with you. We're going to keep touching base with you to see just what happens and whether that death toll rises and whether they find the survivors.

And for our viewers who are watching this, and you can only - you just can't help but be affected by this, please, go to cnn.com/impact. You can find out how you can help out to the people who are not only surviving but those who have just nothing - nothing left as they assess the damage in that community.

Coming up next here at home, the policy that is probably brought the Republican candidate his biggest boos, but his biggest cheers as well. Is Donald Trump backing away from the mass deportation demand that got him so many supporters from the outset? Is that policy over and how are those supporters going to feel about that now?

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