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Trump Insists No Flip-Flopping on Immigration; Trump Seeks to Gain Ground After Reshuffle; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired August 22, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:00:14] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Don't call Donald Trump a flip-flopper, especially when it comes to immigration. The GOP presidential candidate pushing back on reports that he may be softening his stance and thinking of ways to help undocumented immigrants stay in the United States legally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're dealing with people. We have to be very firm. We have to be very, very strong when people come in illegally. We have a lot of people that want to come in through the legal process. It's not fair for them. And we're working with a lot of people in the Hispanic community to try and come up with an answer.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: So you're not flip-flopping?

TRUMP: No, I'm not flip-flopping. We want to come up with a really fair but firm answer. That should be very firm. Look, we want to come up with something fair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right, that's what Trump said on "FOX & FRIENDS" this morning. Questions about Mr. Trump's policy that were raised after a weekend meeting with Hispanic advisers to his campaign. What Trump reportedly said he wanted a, quote, "humane and efficient way to deal with undocumented immigrants." Trump's campaign manager downplaying those comments in an interview with CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONWAY: So what Donald Trump said yesterday in that meeting differed very little from what he has said publicly, Dana, including in his convention speech last month in Cleveland. It's that we need a, quote, "fair," end quote, humane way of dealing with what is estimated to be about 11 million illegal immigrants in this country. Nothing was said yesterday that differs from what Mr. Trump has said previously.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me play something from what Mr. Trump has said previously. Listen to what he said back in November. TRUMP: You're going to have a deportation force and you're going to

do it humanely and inexpensively.

MIKA BRZEZINSKI, MSNBC HOST, "MORNING JOE": But what are they going to be, ripped out of their homes?

TRUMP: Can I tell you?

BRZEZINSKI: How?

TRUMP: They're going back where they came. If they came from a certain country they're going to be brought back to their country. That's the way it's supposed to be.

BASH: So does Donald Trump still support that? A deportation force removing the 11 million or so undocumented immigrants?

CONWAY: What he supports -- and if you go back to his convention speech a month ago, Dana, what he supports is to make sure that we enforce the law, that we are respectful of those Americans who are looking for well-paying jobs, and that we are fair and humane for those who live among us in this country.

BASH: So --

CONWAY: And as the weeks unfold -- as the weeks unfold he will lay out the specifics of that plan that he would implement as president of the United States.

BASH: Will that plan include a deportation force, the kind that he just -- you just heard in that sound bite and that he talked about during the Republican primaries?

CONWAY: To be determined.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. Questions about Trump's immigration stance as he seemingly try to woo minorities after months of controversial comments.

For more on that, I want to bring in CNN's Sunlen Serfaty. Good morning, Sunlen.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol. And Trump's controversial statements over immigration and these new questions over his immigration stance did come out of a meeting where he was trying to reach out to Hispanic voters. His newly formed Hispanic advisory council and to truly court minority groups of voters, a group that he has struggled with so greatly throughout this campaign.

But with his new campaign format and his new campaign team firmly in place, it does appear that Trump is at least trying in his rhetoric into new words, debut some new messaging, reaching out to expand his base. And that's -- his base. And that's something we've really seen him do just in the last week at multiple campaign rallies. Really start to release this new campaign rhetoric, reaching out, in particular, to African-American voters. Here's a small part of what he's had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I've asked the African-American community to honor me with their vote. You're living in poverty. Your schools are no good. You have no jobs. 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: So that's just there, a small slice of what Donald Trump is bringing now to the campaign trail, although he is delivering many of those remarks in front of predominantly white audiences.

It should be noted, Carol, this is such a bill hill for him to climb. The latest poll has Trump support with African-Americans at just 1 percent compared to Clinton's 91 percent -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Sunlen Serfaty, reporting live from Washington this morning. Thank you.

So let's talk about this. I'm joined now by Congressman Brian Babin. He represents the 36th Congressional District of Texas and is a Trump supporter.

Welcome, sir.

REP. BRIAN BABIN (R), TEXAS: Thank you, Carol. Good to be with you.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you here. Do you think Donald Trump is flip- flopping?

BABIN: No, I do not. I think he's been very, very consistent. You know, he's -- if it hadn't been for Donald Trump, we wouldn't even be talking about the immigration problems that this nation is facing today.

[10:05:02] And I think he's been very consistent. He wants to enforce the law. He wants to uphold the Constitution. And he wants to secure the borders.

COSTELLO: So you are in favor of a deportation force. And you believe that he is still in favor of implementing something like that.

BABIN: Well, now what I'm in favor of are criminal alien deportations. We've had 86,000 criminal aliens who have been released from prisons and their countries don't take them back. I'm very, very concerned about that. But if we take deportation off the table, we may as well take sovereignty off the table as well. That's got to be --

COSTELLO: So --

BABIN: That's got to be -- the law must be enforced.

COSTELLO: So you're talk about the 11 million undocumented immigrants already in the United States I assume. So Mr. Trump said that he would deport them in a humane and efficient way. What do you suppose that means?

BABIN: You know, I think, as the campaign goes on, we're going to see more specifics come out. But, you know, it goes without saying if the current administration, which Secretary Hillary Clinton has been part of, has certainly not secured the borders, has certainly continued attracting and bringing folks illegally into this nation who can compete with American workers --

COSTELLO: Well, I'd like to focus on deporting these 11 million people because it would come at enormous cost to taxpayers. And I'm just trying to figure out what Mr. Trump means when he's going to come up with a humane and efficient way to rid the countries of all of the -- to rid this country of all these people.

BABIN: Well, when you say rid this country of all these people, I think in a humane way, my interpretation is that he's going to take this slowly, he's going to talk -- he's going to reach out, as he's already done, to Hispanics. And it's not just Hispanics coming in either. I've been to that border twice. I'm from Texas. We've got folks coming in across our border down there in south Texas who are from the Middle East, from Africa and all over the world.

COSTELLO: Like how many?

BABIN: We've seen -- well, last -- last year alone, we had 47,000 Cubans seeking asylum. They came in across the border. And we've had a number of ISIS operatives apprehended on the border.

COSTELLO: But aren't -- but doesn't the United States accept Cubans?

BABIN: They do. But there is a -- there is a situation, where if Cubans step foot -- you know, across the border, then they get asylum, but if they come in by boat, they don't. It's a crazy regulation. I'm not going down that rabbit trail. The question here is --

COSTELLO: Well, no, but I'm intrigued by that.

BABIN: The question, Carol --

COSTELLO: Should that change in your mind?

BABIN: The question is securing the border -- ma'am?

COSTELLO: Yes.

BABIN: The question is securing the border and freeing Americans up to find the jobs that they need. We are coming out of this recession, the slowest rate that we've seen since the 1940s. And Americans need these jobs.

COSTELLO: But let me ask you this. BABIN: We shouldn't be opening our doors to people who are going to

compete with the American labors and American workers.

COSTELLO: Let me -- let me ask you this. You said that the -- did you say that there are ISIS supporters coming over the border from Mexico?

BABIN: Yes, I can. I can say that.

COSTELLO: Can you confirm who they are and where they've gone and how many?

BABIN: They have been apprehended. I can't tell you. I think there was about six in one group. It is documented. I've been down there two or three times. I was just at the El Paso Center, what we call the Epic Center. And there's some folks coming across that border not just looking for jobs. There's a lot of human trafficking. There's a lot of drugs.

COSTELLO: So where are these ISIS supporters coming from? What countries?

BABIN: Well, you know, all I can say is they're coming from countries that are ISIS hot spots and it's happening. You know --

COSTELLO: Like Iraq and Syria?

BABIN: Any way you -- any way you want to cut this, there are people who want to do us harm, who are sympathetic to ISIS and they're coming across this border. They're coming up through Central America and through Mexico. And they're here. You don't have to look any further than San Bernardino --

COSTELLO: So --

BABIN: -- Garland, Texas, the Boston marathon bombing, Orlando, Florida.

COSTELLO: So I want to get specifics because this is very scary to most Americans. So you have seen these ISIS supporters in custody or talked to ICE agents about these particular people, and where are they now? Are they -- have they been sent back?

BABIN: I can't tell you that.

COSTELLO: Are they roaming the country?

BABIN: I have not personally --

COSTELLO: Are they in prison?

BABIN: Ma'am, you're trying to put -- you're trying to put words in my mouth. I have not personally seen this. I have talked to Border Patrol agents on the south Texas border and there have been ISIS sympathizers who have been apprehended on our south Texas border. [10:10:07] But you're going down a rabbit trail here, ma'am. The

biggest thing here is that Donald Trump, he's a plain-talking American who is very, very sympathetic to the American workers and he's -- he's very intent on changing the things that have harmed America. And our open borders is one of those --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Well, let me -- OK, let me go down another rabbit trail, if you will.

BABIN: Another rabbit trail, that's right.

COSTELLO: Mr. Trump is trying to reach out to minority voters and not just to Hispanic and Latino voters. He said Democrats have failed African-Americans. So why the hell not vote for him? Our Alisyn Camerota asked his running mate Mike Pence about his pitch. Here's Mike Pence's take, let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: On Friday night, Donald Trump was in Michigan, as you know, and he was making an appeal to African-American voters.

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: True.

CAMEROTA: And he used some language and messaging that some people have taken umbrage with. I'll read some of it to you. He said, "You're living in poverty. Your schools are no good. You have no jobs. You have 58 percent youth unemployment. What the hell do you have to lose?" That was an appeal to vote for the Pence -- Trump- Pence ticket. What do you think of that message?

PENCE: Well, it was such an honor for me and really a privilege to be with Donald Trump earlier in the day as we toured neighborhoods devastated by the flooding in Baton Rouge. I saw -- I saw this broad shouldered leader and his profound compassion for the hurting families in Louisiana.

And I think that message and other messages all proceed from the fact that Donald Trump and I both believe that we can do better for every American. We can get this economy moving again. The liberal Democratic policies of our major cities have resulted in failing schools and unsafe streets in too many areas. And Donald Trump is speaking to that boldly. He really believes, and I agree with him, that by getting this economy moving again, lower taxes, rolling back regulation, focusing on American energy and trade deals that work for Americans and also by expanding school choice.

CAMEROTA: So in terms of the language that he used on Friday night, you were OK with that? The "you're living in poverty, you have no jobs, what the hell do you have to lose?" You were OK with it being that blunt of a message?

PENCE: Well, look, Donald Trump is not a experienced politician who carefully selects his words, speaks right from his heart, right from his mouth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Well, here's the thing, Congressman. Many African- Americans say Trump's outreach was not for them, but for white voters who think Trump is racist because Mr. Trump chose to make those remarks in front of a largely white audience. Can you address that?

BABIN: I sure can. I don't think Mr. Trump's got a racist bone in his body. I think he is concerned about all Americans. What he said -- you know, personally, I would not have chosen the same language that he chose. But he is not a politician. You know, the political elites are the ones that got us in the mess we're in today. All these problems that America faces. And quite frankly, we've been -- 60 percent of Americans think that the country is going in the wrong direction. And Mr. Trump has promised to take us in the opposite direction.

And I think the average American wants to come to the polls. And I think we're going to surprise some folks. I believe Mr. Trump is going to surprise a lot of people, just like Ronald Reagan surprised them back in 1980. And I think it's going to be a turnout --

COSTELLO: Well, the polls don't --- the polls don't show that.

BABIN: You're going to be -- ma'am?

COSTELLO: The polls don't show that. He's got 1 percent support among African-Americans. And I just want to get to this. Do you think it would be more effective perhaps if Mr. Trump would apologize for the birther talk or that President Obama founded ISIS? Do you think those things might be turning off African-American voters? And if Mr. Trump just said, you know, I didn't mean that stuff about the birther stuff, would that appease voters? Should he say something like that? Should he apologize?

BABIN: I don't think he's got a thing to apologize for. I believe that he's concerned. He's not a -- he's not a professional politician. But you don't have to be a professional politician to identify the problems and to fix them as the president. You don't have to be a politician to become the president. We're looking at his opponent, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who hasn't had a press conference in 260 days because she didn't want to answer questions about the failed policies under her as the secretary of state and under President Obama's administration.

I think people are very concerned about the direction of this country. And as far as the polls go, I think there are a lot of people who may be undecided and who will surprise -- remember, President Carter was ahead of Ronald Reagan at this point in time back in 1980.

[10:15:05] I was around. I was a Reagan supporter at that time and it shocked -- the American people spoke and it shocked a lot of professional elites and the establishment. Just like this is going to be a shock in November, just a few months.

COSTELLO: All right, we've got 77 days to go. Congressman Babin, thank you so much for joining me this morning.

Still to come in the --

BABIN: Thank you.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

Another conservative media voice advising team Trump but will it change his style or amplify it? Hear from his VP pick next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Add FOX News' Sean Hannity to the list of advisers for Mr. Donald Trump. He joins Breitbart news editor Steve Bannon as CEO of Trump's campaign. It's something that Alisyn Camerota asked Mike Pence about in Iowa. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So the headlines in Breitbart lately, "Big Trans Hate Machine Targets Curt Schilling," that is in reference to the transgender community.

[10:20:02] "There's No Hiring Bias Against Women in Technology, They Just Suck at Interviews." "Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy."

You get the picture. Are you comfortable with that kind of flame- throwing or incendiary messaging?

PENCE: I think Donald Trump is bringing around him a team of people in Steve and Kellyanne and all those that have been a part of this team for a long period of time that I think is delivering a message that is resonating with millions of Americans.

CAMEROTA: Even if it's incendiary?

PENCE: As I travel -- well, look, Donald Trump is the name on the ticket. I'm honored to be on the ticket with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. Let's talk about this, from Washington John Brabender, a Republican political consultant, a senior strategist for Rick Santorum's 2012 presidential campaign, joins me, and also Rick Wilson, he's a Republican strategist and a former strategist for Rudy Giuliani's 2010 Senate campaign.

Welcome to both of you.

JOHN BRABENDER, REPUBLICAN POLITICAL CONSULTANT: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. John, what do you make of Sean Hannity I guess informally advising Trump's campaign along with Breitbart's editor? What should we make of that? BRABENDER: Well, I think what it says is that Donald Trump realizes

that he needs to listen to a broad group of people. And I -- and look, we know he listens to Rudy Giuliani. We know that he listens to a lot of other presidential candidates. We know that he goes and does all these town hall meetings basically. And so I think it's actually admiral that he's not afraid to listen to people. And some don't even always have the same view that he has. And I think that's what you want as a president.

COSTELLO: But, Rick, it almost seems like the conservative media is running Trump's campaign.

RICK WILSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, look, you know, Trump is the human avatar of the Breitbart comment section. Stupid, vulgar, racist, anti-Semitic, vile in almost every aspect. This is a guy who now has Steve Bannon around him, a guy who's the architect of the news outlet, "news" outlet, that is incredibly racially divisive, that is incredibly intolerant. They've attacked on a consistent basis Muslims and now Mormons. And they're acting like " Der Sturmer" in Germany in the 1930s, more than actually a legitimate conservative media outlet.

So, you know, Bannon's band of misfit toys is still going to be pumping out this kind of very vile propaganda. Steve is now, you know, the right hand of Donald Trump. And he plays to Trump's worst instincts. He plays to the most divisive, nasty aspects of Trump's personality. And with respect to my friend John, Trump isn't doing town meetings. He doesn't really listen to people. From what we've heard from some reporting, the guy basically has a circle that once he grows tired of being controlled or being told what to do, he'll cast them out.

I mean, it already felt this morning like Kellyanne was already off the ticket or off the team because he had his Twitter feed back under his own control, and he's out there smearing people and saying crazy things again. This is a guy with no discipline. And this team around him right now isn't going to help that for very long.

COSTELLO: Well, I will say, John, that Trump does give interviews to the press but only on "FOX & Friends" and on Sean Hannity's show.

WILSON: That's right.

COSTELLO: He hasn't given an interview to Bret Baier. They have some good journalists over at FOX News. So why not sit down with them?

BRABENDER: Let's be fair about this. First of all, Trump is doing huge events all over the country. They are open to the press. And so he does have a large megaphone that does get out to a lot of people. And he wants to talk directly to the people. Second of all, I think the one absurdity is anybody saying that Donald Trump is over controlled. You can't say on one hand that you don't like comments that he makes and then on the other hand saying that somebody's controlling him.

The truth of the matter is, Americans are tired of hearing the same word-smithing from people who say they're going to do something about the American dream, about us getting sand kicked in our face all over the world, about immigration and trade. And what they do like about Donald Trump is they feel they can at least trust him because they know that it is not somebody else putting words into his mouth, and they're really even accepting from time to time that he's going to say something that might be insensitive or off-color or whatever. It actually is more believable to them than everybody else who's come before them and promised things and hasn't delivered.

COSTELLO: But here's the thing, Rick. Donald Trump has brought up Hillary Clinton's alleged lack of stamina, mental stamina. Rudy Giuliani brought that up on FOX News yesterday. And I'm going to play this bite from Rudy Giuliani and then I'll ask you, Rick, what you think on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI (R), FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: She has an entire media empire that constantly demonizes Donald Trump and fails to point out that she hasn't had a press conference in 300 days, 200 days, 100 days. I don't know how long. Fails to point out several signs of illness by her. All you've got to do is go online.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her campaign and a number of people defending her saying there is nothing factual to the claims about her health. And that is speculation at best.

GIULIANI: Go online and put down Hillary Clinton illness and take a look at the videos for yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, Rick, you're a former strategist for Rudy Giuliani. If you go online and you put Rudy Giuliani's name in there, a bunch of articles come up that he has Alzheimer's disease.

[10:25:05] It doesn't prove anything. It's just a bunch rumors and innuendo. So why is Rudy Giuliani bringing these things up?

WILSON: Well, look, it's a very difficult -- it's a very difficult thing and I always respect and love Rudy. But his statement with -- in defense of Trump here, you know, is playing into I think something that's beneath a lot of the standard that he would have applied as a prosecutor or as mayor. The evidentiary standard on this is not high enough to make that case.

I mean, look, Donald Trump is a guy who's only -- the only assertation to Donald Trump's health that we have is that weird letter from a doctor who may not exist, stating in the broad and most non-medical terms that he's healthy. We don't know anything about Donald Trump. So if that game wants to be played, you know, I don't know anything about Donald Trump's stamina either.

He's a guy who goes to events every day. He refuses to sleep anywhere except Mar-a-Lago or Trump tower. He's not traveling. He gets on his jet, he goes to an event, he goes back home to Trump Tower or goes back to Mar-a-Lago. You know, the guy's practically Howard Hughes aside from the fact that he gives one big show every day. So --

COSTELLO: But so, John, why can't we all just stop talking about the candidate's health when there's -- there's nothing there.

BRABENDER: Well, look, first of all, let's be clear about this. Whoever's the next president is going to have to take on ISIS, China, the Russians, Syrians. All these huge problems. And if Hillary Clinton can't stand up to Rudy Giuliani's tough rhetoric, then we got real problems. Running for president --

COSTELLO: Tough rhetoric? He's, like, saying go online and believe all those rumors --

WILSON: Yes, look --

BRABENDER: Look --

COSTELLO: That she has like Parkinson's disease.

BRABENDER: People are smart enough that they can decide if they're going to listen to Rudy Giuliani or not. Rudy Giuliani is not running for president just like Biden's not running for president and all the people who have been dumping on Donald Trump. The point of the matter is people in America know that running for president is a tough thing. They wanted a tough thing because they want to see how people stand up to him.

Let Hillary Clinton defend herself. I don't see that happening. And frankly, I think people have enough respect for Giuliani that, you know, they're going to listen to him.

COSTELLO: OK, so I have to leave it there. John Brabender, Rick Wilson, thanks to both of you.

WILSON: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: Former Secretary of State Colin Powell is speaking out on Hillary Clinton's e-mails. Did he or did he not give her advice before she took office about using a private e-mail server? Maybe not. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)