Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

Will Donald Trump Debate?; More Republicans Come Out Against Trump. Aired 15-15:30p ET

Aired August 9, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: The operations and the maintenance of them are -- are maintained locally, so, there's some -- some big risks as far as how they're maintained, what type of people are allowed to get on the rides, and how they're briefed before they get on the rides themselves.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: OK. I think the three little girls will be OK from the Ferris wheel, but awful for that family from the water slide.

David Soucie, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Here we go, hour two. Thanks for being with me on this Tuesday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. This is CNN.

We got some new numbers in for you, new polls in key battleground states. And when you look at them, they show Hillary Clinton tied with Donald Trump in the race for president in the state of Florida. But Clinton is up in Ohio and she is surging in Pennsylvania. So, we have that from Quinnipiac.

Meantime, you can add another name to the growing list of Republicans who say they will not be voting for Donald Trump this November. Today, hugely respected Maine Senator, Republican, Susan Collins explaining her decision in an opinion piece in "The Washington Post." And then she spoke exclusively to our special correspondent here at CNN, Jamie Gangel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: The tipping point for me was his attack on the Khans, when he showed absolutely no empathy or compassion for their terrible loss and instead attacked these two Gold Star parents and also attacked their religion. That was just the final straw for me.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bottom line, do you think he was -- it would be dangerous if he was president?

COLLINS: Donald Trump, in my judgment, would make a perilous world even more dangerous. I worry that his tendency to lash out and his ill-informed comments would cause dangerous events to escalate and possibly spin out of control at a time when our world is beset with conflicts.

GANGEL: It sounds like you're saying you think he would be dangerous.

COLLINS: I do believe that he has the potential to cause world events to spin out of control in a dangerous way.

GANGEL: You're the most senior Republican in the Senate, in Congress to come out against Donald Trump. Do you think, with everything you have said about Donald Trump, that it is a fair position for other Republicans to say they support, but don't endorse?

COLLINS: I'm not going to judge my colleagues. I think this is a very difficult choice to make, and it was a very difficult decision for me to make as a lifelong Republican. So, I think each of my colleagues has to make his or her own decision in this matter.

GANGEL: I'm going to ask you about one person in particular, because I know you are good friends, and that's Senator John McCain. And he has clearly been uncomfortable with Donald Trump.

Do you think there is any chance that Senator McCain or maybe some of your other colleagues may change their minds and unendorse?

COLLINS: I really can't speak for them.

Certainly, John McCain, whom I respect enormously, was one of the first targets of Donald Trump's tirades, when he questioned his heroic war service, which I thought was absolutely extraordinary and spoke out against at the time. But he will have to make his own decision, and I really can't speak for him.

GANGEL: And for Republicans who would say you're betraying the party, you would say?

COLLINS: I would say to them that Donald Trump does not represent the values or the heritage of the Republican Party, and we should not be afraid to say that.

And, indeed, there is a risk to the Republican Party if Donald Trump is perceived as embodying our values.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, let's come off of that point.

Jamie Gangel is with me.

When you are asking her what do you say to those Republicans who say you are betraying the party for not voting for Trump, and she says?

GANGEL: Donald Trump is betraying the party, that he doesn't represent the values of the Republican Party.

[15:05:01]

BALDWIN: Yes. GANGEL: I also thought that answer was very interesting, because I

thought she was gently, which is Susan Collins' style, encouraging people that it's OK to come out against Donald Trump.

And I thought she weighed her words very carefully on John McCain. He is a very good friend of hers. And...

BALDWIN: His primary is next week.

GANGEL: Right. And I think that they're -- she says, I don't want to speak for him. But I think that she sees herself as potentially creating a place for other Republicans, maybe John McCain, too, our new word, unendorse.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Unendorse. Have we are ever used that before in a presidential election?

Jamie Gangel, great interview.

GANGEL: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you so much. Watch the interview CNN.com.

Right now, Donald Trump speaking at a rally in the key state of North Carolina there in Wilmington. Here is what he had to say about his opponent moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She does. She lacks judgment. She lacks temperament. And I'm the one that used fit many, many months ago. And now they turn it around, use it on me. Unfit? I'm unfit? That's a first.

But she lacks the temperament and the moral character to lead this country. It is very simple. She really does. She's a dangerous person who doesn't tell the truth, which has been proven very loudly. I have never seen -- I don't think we have ever had greater proof of that of anybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Much to talk about here. We are also hearing of new swing state polls that show Hillary Clinton, she is tied in Florida, she is up in Ohio and she's surging in Pennsylvania.

So, with me now, CNN political commentator Ryan Lizza, who is the Washington correspondent for "The New Yorker," and David Catanese, the senior politics writer for "U.S. News & World Report."

Gentlemen, hello and welcome to CNN.

Let's get to it. Before we get into actually some news just in on the debates, before we marinate into those waters, on the Quinnipiac University swing state poll, Clinton is tied in Florida, she is up in Ohio and she is surging in Pennsylvania.

Ryan Lizza, of all three of those states, what jumps out at you the most?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I'm actually a little surprised that Florida is the tightest there. The conventional wisdom about Trump is that if he is going to beat her, he is going to beat her in the Rust Belt, in the Industrial Midwest, and he's got to win a state like Ohio.

And, on the other hand, a state like Florida, which is much more diverse, has a big Hispanic population, and the Democrats have won the last few cycles without much problem, that that would be a little bit more secure for Clinton.

But, all in all, very bad news. Already, Hillary's going into this race with this blue wall of states that Democrats have the advantage in presidential contests. We know that. They have won the popular vote in five of the last six. And bad news all around for Donald Trump. We're still post-convention bounce phase, so I would wait one more week to see where all the polls settle. That's going to tell us a lot.

BALDWIN: Yes, it is interesting to look at the difference in the CNN -- the national poll vs. those three states.

(CROSSTALK)

LIZZA: But those national polls are very -- we're in the point of the election where national polls are much more predictive.

Six months ago, not so predictive. Now they are pretty predictive if you look historically.

BALDWIN: Yes.

OK. On the notion of unpredictability, let's talk debates, gentlemen. So the deal is, we know that these three big presidential debates that start into in September, they have been set, right? This has been worked out long ago.

So, flash forward to potentially some wiggling on behalf of the Trump camp. Hillary Clinton and her campaign sort of came out and challenged Donald Trump essentially -- and I'm totally paraphrasing -- hey, we're going to be there, are you going to show up, or what?

We now have news from "TIME" magazine -- let me just quote this for you just to be precise. He has now responded to that and saying -- quote -- "I will absolutely do three debates." David Catanese, I'm coming to you. He says, "I want to debate very badly, but I have to see the conditions."

(CROSSTALK)

DAVID CATANESE, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": Yes. Well, I think he is losing the game, so you start to complain about

the refs and the rules. This is typical of what campaigns do when they're losing. And, frankly, it is in his interest to sort of reframe the rules, talk about moderators that wouldn't be fair to him.

Look, his campaign is already now issuing a daily press release and it says media bias. He picks out whoever he thinks is treating him unfairly in the media that day. And this has basically all happened in the last two weeks, post-conventions, post the deluge of polling that has shown him far behind.

He's going to -- look, I think, politically -- I don't want to say this as a journalist. I don't think it is great that he's going to try to disqualify certain journalists from moderating his debates, but I think, politically, it probably works to his interests.

[15:10:08]

And it probably fires up the people in his room.

BALDWIN: Wasn't he successful, Ryan Lizza? He points out, I renegotiated the debates in the primaries. Remember, he was irked because some of them were a little too long. He didn't show up at one of them. And I guess he is saying he wants to be able to give the green light on the choice of moderators.

LIZZA: Yes. It's not totally clear from the statement from "TIME" magazine exactly what he is saying.

But if he's now come to the point where he's saying, OK, times and dates are fine with me, and I accept the role of the Commission on Presidential Debates, which nobody has challenged since that commission has come into being, if he's in that place, and it is just more of your typical debate negotiation over moderators, temperature of the room, all the silly things that they negotiate, that puts Trump a little bit closer to what candidates do every cycle.

The really unusual thing was that he was just indicating that he might not show up at all or he was challenging the legitimacy of the Presidential Debate Commission, which both parties have accepted and is basically this bipartisan organization.

BALDWIN: But wasn't part of it that he was irked because of the NFL games and obviously he wants more eyeballs on the screen watching the debates?

(CROSSTALK)

LIZZA: There are hundreds of NFL games every fall. You can't avoid all of them.

BALDWIN: I know. I know.

LIZZA: So I never gave that one much...

BALDWIN: I'm just telling the people what Donald Trump has said. LIZZA: It's always something.

BALDWIN: But, David Catanese, what about, though, you have the Clinton campaign -- as I mentioned a minute ago, they came out and they sort of drew the line in the sand and challenged him to show up. Did you think that that was a smart move? Obviously, he's responded.

CATANESE: Yes. I think they're trying to goad him into something. They want him to say, I'm not going to agree to these debates, because then there is another big story that takes away from his message and looks like Trump is an erratic candidate, unconventional candidate.

That is in their interest to pound away at that message. But, look, Donald Trump is going to show up at these debates, because it is probably the first and last chance for him to really change the trajectory of the race. I was talking to a Republican consultant today who thinks 100 million people may tune in to this first debate coming in September.

BALDWIN: Wow.

(CROSSTALK)

CATANESE: I mean, they are thinking it is going to blow away records just because it will be the first time -- remember, the first time Trump and Clinton on the same stage, on a small stage, not a big arena with 15 other candidates like we saw in the primaries, a pretty intimate stage for 90 minutes next to each other.

And that is Trump's best chance, probably his next best chance to change the direct trajectory of the race. He can't afford not to do it if he is down five, 10 points everywhere.

LIZZA: I totally agree with David.

I was going to say, he's down eight to 10 points. What is the -- he's just going to sit on his eight- to 10-point deficit and not get the publicity that goes along with the debates? The only chance he has to turn around the race if it continues this way is to go into the debates with extremely low expectations, which is going to happen, and exceed those expectations. That's one of the best cards he still has left.

BALDWIN: He worked it pretty well when it came to publicity and would he or wouldn't he with those debates then. But can you just imagine, can you imagine what this will look like in the end of September?

Ryan Lizza, David Catanese, thank you guys so much.

LIZZA: Thank you, Brooke.

CATANESE: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, it is a Trump pattern. He floats a baseless theory, controversial idea, but prefaces the whole thing by saying, many people are saying. Find out the new one he just dropped. Plus, let me show you a picture. There is a man here. We will

spotlight him for you, in behind Hillary Clinton. There you go, red hat, mustache. That is the father of the Orlando nightclub shooter. Why was he at Hillary Clinton's rally in Florida, and did the campaign know he would be there?

And another new bombshell from inside FOX News. A new report suggests that are audiotapes of alleged harassment by the former CEO, this as another host is making accusations.

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:25]

BALDWIN: And we're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Four words plaguing Donald Trump today, "Many people are saying," big statement sometimes used as a verbal crutch and sometimes to avoid taking responsibility for one's own thoughts and opinions.

The latter is exactly what Trump's critics are touting about the nominee's frequent use of the phrase, most recently, this tweet essentially alleging Hillary Clinton was somehow responsible for the execution of that Iranian scientist.

That sparked a Twitter firestorm, even with the hashtag #manypeoplearesaying generating comeback tweets like this one, "#Manypeoplearesaying Trump is a secret Muslim. Not me, but many people do say that." That was apparently retweeted a lot.

This is not the first time Trump has tried to use this kind of phrasing. Here's a look back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, there are a lot of people that think maybe he doesn't want to get it. A lot of people think maybe he doesn't want to know about. I happen to think that he just doesn't know what he's doing, but there are many people that think maybe he doesn't want to get it, he doesn't want to see what's really happening.

And we have already taking off the sanctions. They're already rich as hell. What's going on there? That's why I say, I mean, some people say it's worse than stupidity, there's something going on that we don't know about, I mean, honestly. And you almost think it. I'm not saying that and I'm not a conspiracy person. She said, we are. We're saying it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's begin there, ladies.

Dana Bash is with me, CNN chief political correspondent, and Kayleigh McEnany, CNN political commentator and Trump supporter. So, question, Kayleigh, let me just turn straight to you.

[15:20:02]

He doesn't technically embrace this bit of gossip or tabloid rumor, conspiracy, but he sort of says, well, many people are saying. Are you finished with law school?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.

BALDWIN: You would never say that.

MCENANY: Well, his tweet overstated the case against Hillary Clinton's e-mails as they are linked to the Iranian scientist's death. There's no doubt about that.

BALDWIN: But if even you look back at other statements he's made.

MCENANY: Well, I mean, I would suggest the Democrats have overstated things as well, like saying Trump intentionally bankrupted himself or the first bankruptcy he lost part of his interest in his own company or that he is a thin-skinned racist.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But that's saying Trump vs. many people are saying.

MCENANY: But this is not just a conspiracy theory, what he brought up. The causal link between her e-mails and scientists are, but it is really important to look at the substance of it.

This Iranian scientist was here in the United States. There were two narratives put forth. He says...

BALDWIN: He did it with Ted Cruz and the fact that he was born in Canada and would he, could he be president. He did it with a number of stories that were just entirely baseless.

MCENANY: But the issue with regard to this particular story and the fact that Hillary Clinton was talking about a potential CIA asset on her e-mails, and it could have in theory led to his death, that's certainly true if the Iranians had the e-mails and that's how they found out this guy was potentially an asset of the United States.

I think it's an important point. Did he overstate the case? Yes, he did. But the Democrats overstate the case against Donald Trump I think every day.

BALDWIN: OK.

Dana Bash, do you want to weigh in on that or shall I move on to the debate news?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I would just say I actually spent some time today looking back at all of the instances. (CROSSTALK)

BASH: And there were a lot that, I'm sure, Trump has sort of relied on the some people say.

And what I think is fascinating is the way he uses it, not just as a crutch, but as a tool to change the subject, away from bad news. Yesterday, for example, he sent out that tweet just about an hour after "The New York Times" first posted the letter with 50 former mostly Bush, but Republican national security officials saying that he is unfit to be commander in chief.

Same goes for what you talked about with Kayleigh, the idea that Ted Cruz may not have been eligible to be president because he was born in Canada. I went back and looked at my stories back then. It was just as Ted Cruz was beginning to rise in the polls in Iowa, so that reason.

And also he used it to sell his products and to sell his businesses on Twitter as well. So, it goes beyond politics to his kind of -- just his marketing tactic as well.

BALDWIN: So there's that. Then there is the news I was just discussing with Ryan Lizza and David Catanese. I wanted to ask you two ladies about it as well.

Dana, let me just begin with you. Now we know that the Clinton campaign essentially challenged Donald Trump, show up at these three presidential debates, the first in the end of September. Now Donald Trump has responded and he said, I will, I will show up, saying, I will do three debates. I want to debate very badly, but I have to see the conditions.

What kind of conditions are we talking about here?

BASH: Who knows?

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: I mean, he said initially that he was not happy with the time slots because he understands television. He does. And he looked at the fact that I think one, maybe two of the debates are scheduled the same night as NFL football games. So he said that that was something that gave him pause because he wants a lot of people to watch.

We can argue about whether or not people are going to watch football or watch Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump another time, but that was kind of a leverage point that he clearly wanted to put out there to use for negotiations.

I was actually texting with somebody who had been part of presidential debate negotiations on the campaign side in another cycle who said that there actually is not that much that they can actually debate, that there's not that much negotiating or wiggle room, that the Presidential Debate Commission is pretty forceful when it comes to the standards and the parameters. (CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: They have long ago met.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Yes, exactly.

BALDWIN: Right?

BASH: Exactly. It's not like -- people need to understand, during the primaries, there's a competition between networks to get the debates. There just is. This is not that.

All of the networks take the debates. It's not sort of competitive that way. So it's a different animal than it was during the primaries.

BALDWIN: So, I loved how we will debate it another time, Dana.

And, Kayleigh, let me just turn to you on how many just really will be tuning in to watch Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton sort of duke it out on stage. What do you think he will be looking at and how much of this is just publicity so that we will all be watching?

MCENANY: Well, I think Dana Bash is right to point out the NFL schedule. He mentioned that early on. I think it is really important to him that people tune in.

BALDWIN: There's a lot of football games, though.

MCENANY: There is, but Packers game, Packers-Giants, it's a big game.

BALDWIN: Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, I don't know.

MCENANY: I know, but this is his reset moment.

Look, Hillary Clinton won the convention game. She came out with the biggest bounce. This is his moment to reset his campaign, to introduce himself to the American people, to contrast his vision with Hillary Clinton's. He wants a maximum number of people to be watching.

[15:25:01]

I'm sure he wants to ensure that he's asked about substance and not just about some of the controversies that we get enmeshed in day in and day out. I'm sure there is a myriad of terms he wants to put forth to ensure that they are both asked substantive questions, they both get the maximum number of viewers, so that he can have an opportunity to reintroduce himself and his vision to the American people.

BALDWIN: Absolutely should be fair and square. And I have a feeling lots and lots and lots of people will be tuning in for that.

MCENANY: Yes.

BALDWIN: Kayleigh McEnany and Dana Bash, thank you both so much.

And let's go straight to Hillary Clinton. She is in Florida. She is at a health center there with a message for Congress over the Zika virus.

Here she is.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I really am hoping that they will pay attention.

In fact, I would very much urge the leadership of Congress to call people back for a special session and get a bill passed. Get a bill that is focused on combating Zika passed.

Then, health departments, local and state governments, everybody will know that there are resources coming forth and they will be able to take action to try to prevent that.

So, I'm asking the Republican leaders in the House and the Senate to call Congress back into session immediately and to pass the bipartisan funding bill that the Senate passed. The Senate passed a bill. And, unfortunately, a different bill was passed in the House, and no agreement could be reached before they went out on recess.

So pass the bipartisan bill from the Senate or come up with a new compromise that does the same and in fact tries to get those resources moving as quickly as possible.

BALDWIN: So, that's the first time we have officially heard it here, Hillary Clinton calling on members of Congress. They're on summer resource. They're not supposed to be back in Washington until after Labor Day. She's saying, come back. She wants that vote on Zika. And she's in specifically the neighborhood in Miami where it is really ground zero for the U.S. spread.

So, we will see what happens.

Coming up next, though, this sort of curious sighting and quite frankly embarrassing at a Hillary Clinton rally. The father of the shooter of the Orlando nightclub massacre showed up and he is seated right behind Hillary Clinton as she is giving a speech and actually as she is talking about the victims from Orlando. How did this happen? How is the Clinton campaign reacting?

Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)