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CNN NEWSROOM

Kasich One-On-One With CNN; New Poll: Clinton Doubles Lead Over Trump; Ex-Reagan Aide: Why I'm Voting For Clinton; Inside Rio's "No- Go" Ganglands; Two Months in a Row of Strong Employment Growth; Candidates Fight For Best Optics; Protesters March Over Shooting of Unarmed Black Teen; First Website Went Live 25 Years Ago. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired August 7, 2016 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:00:44] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

We begin with brand-new polling in the race for the White House. It reflects what a rough week it's been for Donald Trump. The latest national survey finds Hillary Clinton up eight points over Trump among registered voters.

Clinton maintains that eight-point edge when you factor in the Libertarian and Green Party candidates. The ABC News/"Washington Post" poll comes as Donald Trump tries to get back on message. He is doing that by attacking Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Unstable Hillary Clinton, and you saw that. You saw that where she basically short-circuited. The people of this country don't want somebody that's going to short- circuit up here. Not as your president. Remember, ISIS is looking, folks. This stuff is so amazing. It amazes me actually. Honestly, I don't think she's all there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: There is one Republican, though, who Trump has not won over. That is Ohio Governor John Kasich. The former presidential hopeful sent shockwaves through his party when he skipped the convention in his own state. He sat down with our Jake Tapper to speak about why he did that, what it might take to get him on board with Trump

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "STATE OF THE UNION": Paul Manafort, said you were embarrassing your state of Ohio when you skipped the convention in Cleveland. You talked about the pressure that you felt. People telling you, you needed to go and endorse. Were there back channel efforts to get you to come to the convention? And who put the pressure on you?

KASICH: No, no, no, I mean, people would call who are longtime friends of mine, and say, you know, you need to support the party and secondly, don't give the impression that you're a Clinton supporter. That's just kind of this thing, you know. Well, let me be clear, I'm not, OK. I see four years of gridlock with her, total gridlock and meltdown, and economics. OK, so that is one thing.

TAPPER: What do you see with --

KASICH: Well, I see gridlock there too.

TAPPER: Were you surprised when Donald Trump declined to endorse Speaker Ryan, Senator McCain, and Senator Ayotte?

KASICH: Well, yes, I thought it was a little bizarre.

TAPPER: Your nominee for president, the Republican presidential nominee said John McCain is not a hero, he prefers people who weren't captured.

KASICH: Well, I don't agree with that. OK, I think John McCain is a hero. Look, Jake, here is the thing. All throughout this anybody can say OK, you know, Trump said this, you say that. Why don't you slug him over the head? Look, my actions have spoken louder than any words.

TAPPER: Your refusal to endorse him?

KASICH: And think about this, I want to know when anybody had a convention in their state when they were the governor who didn't go in the convention hall. I mean, some people are really furious with me about that.

But I did what I thought I needed to do and you know what? I never went in that hall to promote myself. And I wanted -- believe it or not I wanted to show respect to the nominee and my going up there and disrupting his deal was not what I intended to do.

TAPPER: Can Trump win Ohio?

KASICH: He is going to win parts of Ohio where people are really hurting. There will be sections he will win because people are angry, frustrated, and haven't heard any answers. But I still think it's difficult if you are dividing to be able to win in Ohio.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: All right, let's talk about what we just heard and what this means for the race for the White House. With me Jennifer Granholm, a former governor of Michigan as well as the senior adviser for "Correct The Record," the only super PAC associated with Hillary Clinton, and also Curtis Ellis, a Trump campaign adviser is with us.

Thank you guys for being with us. Curtis, let me begin with you. Ohio is so, so, so, so important. I can't overstate it when it comes for Republicans especially no Republican has ever taken the White House without taking Ohio.

Donald Trump still cannot get John Kasich on board in that interview. You heard he doesn't sound like he's close to getting on board with Trump. Does Trump need Kasich? If so, how does he get him?

CURTIS ELLIS, ADVISER TO DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN: I'm very confident that John Kasich will come around.

WHITFIELD: Why?

ELLIS: In that interview with -- in that interview he made very clear he's not happy with Hillary Clinton. He said she is going to be more government, more spending, and worse performance for the economy. He said Bernie Sanders is driving the bus and she's just in the back seat.

[19:05:04]So I think he's going to come around. I was at the RNC with a lot of people from Ohio and they were frankly embarrassed that he hadn't endorsed and wasn't there. So I think he's going to talk to the Republican voters of Ohio and realize the right thing to do is get on the Trump train.

HARLOW: He has 60 percent approval rating in Ohio, 77 percent approval among Republicans in Ohio. He is very popular there. You are confident he's going to support your candidate?

ELLIS: Oh, I think so. He said he is not happy at all with Hillary Clinton, and he's going to realize it's a binary choice. If you don't have Trump, you'll end up with Hillary. He also took a pledge that he was going to support the nominee. So I think he'll come around.

HARLOW: Governor Granholm, I want to play some of what Hillary Clinton's running mate, Tim Kaine, said this morning on "Meet The Press" about these persistent questions over her answers when it comes to her e-mails.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR TIM KAINE (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But I know that this is something that she has learned from and we're going to be real transparent absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So here's the thing, though. When you look at what the American people think, new poll out showed 66 percent of Americans think that Hillary Clinton is willing to bend the rules. It's a tough number.

JENNIFER GRANHOLM (D), FORMER MICHIGAN GOVERNOR: Well, the polls that were out this morning also show that Trump has an equal problem with credibility or more. In fact, he beats her by several points on that issue. She's going to continue to work on that and continue to be transparent and continue to say that she apologizes for having had two e-mails --

HARLOW: Can I just jump in? Governor, what does that mean she's going to continue to because she has been giving these --

GRANHOLM: Because you guys will continue to ask that question about her e-mails --

HARLOW: Because it's important. When you're talking about honesty and trustworthiness of a presidential candidate, it is important to the voters. And when she said she short-circuited, no one knew what that meant.

GRANHOLM: Well, I mean, I knew what she meant. I knew exactly what she meant. She did not intend to send any e-mails that were marked classified. She takes it very seriously. She told that to the FBI, this is why the FBI did not prosecute her. They could not prove that she intended in any way to send emails with classification --

HARLOW: They called her extremely careless and Comey said she should have known better --

GRANHOLM: And she's apologized for that. The question is I think, Poppy, there was a great article this morning by Nick Christophe in "The New York Times" where he compared Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump and deception.

And he points out that the objective fact checkers repeatedly demonstrate that he is far and away more dishonest than she is, by multiples, like 70 percent of the stuff that they fact checked against him, he has been deceptive.

So I understand people keep coming back to this one issue about e- mails which she has apologized for and which she was not prosecuted for by the FBI, and she will continue to apologize.

And she'll continue to say she respects and will make sure that classified information is not compromised when she is president.

HARLOW: But in that answer she gave Chris Wallace last Sunday on Fox, "The Washington Post" gave it four Pinocchios and said she was not clear on that. So the American people are clearly not getting straightforward answers still.

I'm not going to spend the entire time on this. Curtis, when you dig into your polling numbers from this ABC poll, let's stick through a few of them, 7 in 10 voters, including more than half of Republicans disapprove of how Trump handled the Khan family, the parents of this fallen Muslim-American soldier.

More than half of voters don't think he's qualified to be president and more than half of voters don't think he has a good understanding of world affairs compared to 70 percent who believe Clinton does. How do you turn those numbers around?

ELLIS: There's plenty of survey research that shows 70 percent, 80 percent of American people think the system is rigged.

HARLOW: Wait, what research?

ELLIS: There was a recent poll by Pat Cadell and Associates that reconfirmed that people think that the system is rigged, that --

HARLOW: I've got to stop you there because I have never seen that poll and we have a standard for --

ELLIS: I'll be happy to send it to you.

HARLOW: Please do. That we use on CNN because you just said 80 percent of Americans think the system is rigged?

ELLIS: Yes, they believe that the insiders, the politicians are not working for the American people but have jiggered t system to work for their own benefit. The same politicians that have rigged the system are responsible for these trade deals that have sent jobs overseas.

So with that kind of headwind it's going to be very difficult for a career politician like Hillary Clinton to gain the trust of the American people --

HARLOW: Can you explain to me --

ELLIS: And the e-mails are another example of that.

HARLOW: This word rigged is a word that's been used a lot in this election, not just by Donald Trump. It has been used by Democratic candidates as well. But what do you mean specifically when you say up to 80 percent of the American people think that the election system is rigged?

ELLIS: Not the -- necessarily the election system. Let's talk about the political system.

[19:10:01]That there's one set of rules for the insiders and they are playing by a set of rules that benefit them and when they make policy decisions in Washington, it's ones that benefit their donors.

The people who give money to the politicians, not decisions that are going to help the American people, the people on the outside.

HARLOW: Are you saying Trump shouldn't take any donor money?

ELLIS: The division in this country between the insiders and outsiders and Donald Trump is an outsider. He's getting his money from small contributions --

HARLOW: Isn't he an insider now because he's a presidential candidate?

ELLIS: He has not been on the inside like Hillary Clinton since the 1970s, '80s, in the White House in the 1990s.

HARLOW: So Governor Granholm, I can't talk about the veracity of that poll. I don't know what that poll is or if it meets our polling standards, but I can speak to the issue at hand, and that is this sort of outsider/newcomer status that has helped Donald Trump all the way through the primary. And you have Hillary Clinton very established politician, 25 years on the national stage. So a lot of people think they know everything they need to know about her. Does that hurt her?

GRANHOLM: No, I don't think -- well, I do think people should know more about her because when they do find out, they will be comforted that she is out there battling for them. It's one of the reasons why the poll that you were discussing earlier shows that six in 10 Americans believe she has the right temperament and experience to be the president and six in 10 believe that Donald Trump does not.

It's not to do with insider/outsider so much is who do you trust to be able to fight for you. Donald Trump has fought for himself this whole -- his entire life. And every step that he's taken in his businesses, his outsourcing, his manipulating the bankruptcy system to benefit and enrich himself on the backs of everyday citizens shows that he's out for himself.

Everything she's done in her life has been to fight for somebody who doesn't have a voice whether it was with the Children's Defense Fund or making sure that schools are not segregated and making sure that people -- that children have health care when she was first lady, when she got the children's health insurance program.

The bottom line is for her, people need to understand that her whole life has been about serving people. Donald Trump's whole life has been about serving himself.

HARLOW: Jennifer Granholm and Curtis Ellis, clearly a lot more to talk about. So stay with me. We are going to get to much more ahead with both of you.

Also coming up, he was an official in every Republican administration since Ronald Reagan. Now he says he will vote for Hillary Clinton. We will introduce you to him and ask him why.

Also Iran executes a nuclear scientist accused of spilling secrets to the United States. I will speak with an American diplomat who spent his life working on U.S. relations with Tehran.

And later, it's a tale of two cities in the shadow of the Olympic venues. We will take you to the Rio, Brazil that you may never have seen before. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:15:38]

HARLOW: Welcome back. A Republican who worked for President Ronald Reagan says he will not vote for Donald Trump. Instead, former White House political director for Reagan, Frank Lavin, is now supporting Democrat Hillary Clinton.

In a new CNN op-ed he writes, quote, "The depressing truth of the Republican nominee is that Donald Trump talks a great game, but he is the emperor who wears no clothes. Trump falls short in terms of the character and behavior needed to perform as president. This defect is crippling and ensures that he will fail."

Frank Lavin joins me now. Thank you for being with me.

FRANK LAVIN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL DIRECTOR FOR PRESIDENT REAGAN: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: Can you tell me about the moment that you decided to walk away from your party's nominee and to embrace Hillary Clinton. Was it something Trump said? Was it a policy proposal? What was it?

LAVIN: Actually, there were two specific moments because what you just described, Poppy, not voting for Donald Trump and then deciding to vote for Hillary Clinton are really two related but separate decisions.

The first one was a little easier for me and it came when Donald Trump called on a religious ban, a specific religious ban on Muslims. That combined with his comments about Mexico and Mexicans, I just found distasteful and very inconsistent with the highest standards of the office of the presidency.

So I decided in conjunction with those public statements that this fellow is not fit for public office. But to your point, it's a little longer journey for me as someone who has always been right of center and always comfortable, proud to support the Republican nominee to vote for the Democratic nominee. That was a longer journey for me.

HARLOW: So I mean, to be -- correct me if I'm wrong. You've never voted for a Democrat. Am I right?

LAVIN: That is correct. I started voting in '76. So ten elections is a row, very happy to vote for Republicans. Excited about the Republican nominees we ran.

HARLOW: You're an Ohio native. I want to talk about your governor, John Kasich. He just sat down for this fascinating interview with my colleague, Jake Tapper. He spoke about the backlash that he received. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Who put the pressure on --

KASICH: No, no, I mean, people would call who are longtime friends of mine. You need to do this for yourself. You need to support the party. And secondly, don't give the impression that's you're a Clinton supporter. That's just kind of this thing. Well, let me be clear. I'm not, OK? I see four years of gridlock with her. Total gridlock and meltdown in economics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So, first on that, how would you explain your decision to back Clinton to your governor?

LAVIN: Look, I respect governor's point of view. He's in a far more difficult position than I am in terms of visibility and currently holding public office. It's a very different decision for him than it is for me. I don't hold public office and I have more flexibility in that regard. But I'm very proud of him for his stand and it is clear to me that Governor Kasich finds Donald Trump to be distasteful.

HARLOW: But do you think that he should get on board? He made this argument, he said don't take me wrong. My support of Trump is not -- my lack of support of Trump is not my support of Clinton and he said that she would lead to an economic meltdown. Do you agree at all with his assessment of what a Clinton presidency would do to the economy?

LAVIN: Yes, listen. We'll have a range of views about Hillary Clinton. My most important issues are the international issues. Most of my life has been on the foreign policy side. Hillary Clinton is far closer to the traditional Republican approach to foreign policy of alliance relationships, international engagement and so forth than Donald Trump is. So at least in those set of issues, I am 100 percent comfortable supporting Hillary Clinton.

HARLOW: All right, so tell me this because you described it being really a long road to go from just not supporting Trump to actually supporting Hillary Clinton. What concerns you about her? What scares you about her? What do you not like about her as a candidate?

LAVIN: I had a major concern and she put that to rest in my mind. To go back to your earlier question, you're always concerned about the ideological focus. And I think a successful president does have to govern from the center. You have to respect market economics.

And it was the Democratic convention and her selection of Tim Kaine as a running mate that reassured me her centrist impulse can dominate and that Bernie Sanders' constituency is not going to be defining the Clinton administration.

[19:20:07]HARLOW: So what do you mean? You think she might reverse, flip flop again on some of these trade deals like TPP?

LAVIN: No, I take her at her word. I don't speak for the Clinton administration. I accept what she's saying. I am simply saying that I think in the Bernie Sanders constituency you had an ideology that was hostile to economic growth, hostile to business startup and entrepreneurial spirit and I think would be damaging to the U.S. economy.

And if you look at where Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine are, I think these are two people who understand you have to foster some sort of atmosphere which is for business expansion.

You're not going to improve employment unless you allow these businesses to grow. That's got to be a starting point for any kind of economic management.

HARLOW: Will you be on the road now trying to get other Republicans on board with you in this effort?

LAVIN: Well, I have told the Clinton campaign, look, I'm committed to this and I'm happy to help in any way I can. I will personally be voting for Hillary Clinton, and I'm happy to act as a spokesman in any way they see fit.

HARLOW: Quite a change of heart for someone who has never voted for a Democrat in their life and formerly of the Reagan administration. Frank Lavin, interesting discussion. Thank you.

LAVIN: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: All right, ahead, this -- drive just a short distance from the Olympic stadium in Rio and you will find yourself in an area police rarely venture.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The rest of Rio speeds past this vault taking nobody away with it. This is where the deals are done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: A look at the dark underside in Rio de Janeiro when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: The Summer Olympic Games have kicked off. But not far from the bright lights of the Olympic stadium is a dark and dangerous part of Rio.

[19:25:04]Our CNN senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, reports that this is a side that remains very much out of the spotlight of the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Drive just past one Olympic venue and there sprawling in the dusk is the Rio that Brazil doesn't want you to see. You are heading with us into a place where police cannot go unless they want a gun battle.

A surreal other world where those with guns set the rules. They agreed to talk if we didn't identify them. This is a place where they deal and he passes for a veteran here. I didn't think I would last until 20 because of our lifestyle. Now I'm 38. If God allows one day I'll be 60. It's my dream to leave to lead a quieter life.

We drive through off camera a crazed detached world of parties, open dealing, teenagers in a world without rules or a future. The rest of Rio speeds past this spot. Taking nobody away with it.

This is where the deals are done. Will the Olympics boost business? Sell, always sell he says. Sell more. That's the point. The quality is good.

(on camera): This is where their world meets the rest of Brazil. A country sometimes great riches and opportunity that many people here will never know.

(voice-over): Pick your own sample. All cut from pure in a nearby laboratory. The local drug lord tells us he dreams of leaving to study business, but this is the business here.

Travell (ph) has 11 children by six different women. All we want to do is sell a little drug to look after our kids. We don't shove guns in their faces and say buy. We just have it available.

(on camera): What do you say to people coming here for the Olympic games?

(voice-over): Enjoy Rio but with your eyes open. Brazil is not prepared. Few from here will be watching or there. It will be businessmen, politicians, me I like to be there, but I can't.

The worst thing is that I can't leave. It's what I want, to leave here. I feel like a prisoner. Walls that keep the grandeur and billions of the games out of reach.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Nick Paton Walsh reporting from Rio.

Straight ahead, fresh off the July jobs report from Friday, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump set to make major economic speeches this week, the focus, jobs. But who can convince voters their plan is the best one? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:31:10] HARLOW: Some good news on the economy this week. The U.S. has seen two months in a row of pretty strong job growth. The Labor Department reporting Friday that employment gains in July far exceeded the expectations of many economists. The unemployment rate stayed steady at 4.9 percent.

Our chief business correspondent Christine Romans has more with the numbers.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, FOX NEWS CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Poppy, a strong jobs report two months in a row of strong jobs growth. Take a look at this. June and July, 292,000 and 255,000 net new jobs. Now for the year, Poppy, 13 million new jobs added for the year. And the unemployment rate still sitting here at that multiyear low around 4.9 percent. You know, the trend is so important here. And it's been several years of the unemployment rate drifting lower here even as there are concerns about people who have dropped out of the labor market, people who are working part time that would like to be working full-time. People working temp jobs. The overall trend here in the job markets continues to improve. Two months of strong hiring -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Christine, thank you. Let's talk about this in the context of the race for the White House. Donald Trump tomorrow will unveil his economic plan with a big speech in Detroit. Job creation will be a big part of it. No question. Democrat, Hillary Clinton will give a big economic speech. Also in Detroit on Thursday. Let's hash it out.

Back with me now, Trump campaign advisor Curtis Ellis and former Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm, she is a senior adviser for "Correct the Record" and a Hillary Clinton supporter. Jennifer, interesting op-ed not long ago by Tom Friedman in "The New York Times" talking about these economic plans. And he said that Hillary Clinton needs to, quote, "inject some capitalism into her economic plan." And he said that the Democratic Party as a whole has drifted into what he calls anti-trade regulator heavy socialist light agenda. Tom Friedman, does he have a point?

GRANHOLM: No. In fact, she spent this past week post-convention with Tim Kaine going on a jobs tour talking specifically about the plans that she's going to put in place to encourage robust growth on the part of job providers, businesses. She's talked about infrastructure. She talked about making sure there's an infrastructure bank to be able to afford those jobs that will be putting, you know, infrastructure on the ground. She talked about small businesses. She wants to be the small business president.

She talked, which is really important to me, about advanced manufacturing making sure we can stamp those products made in America and then export them. And she talked about clean energy jobs which to me is the biggest opportunity in terms of growth sector globally that we should be making those products here. So, she's really, she's been talking about this on all fours this past week. It's very exciting. And I'll be curious to see what Donald Trump says about job growth in America and how he specifically would create jobs here tomorrow.

HARLOW: So, when you talk about job creation, you know, some of those business leaders would say a lot of these regulations are too burdensome on us, too heavy on us to create those jobs. Your response to them, especially talking about the energy sector, for example. Tom Friedman pointed out regulatory heavy were his words. You have to walk a line and have regulations for safety but you also need job growth.

GRANHOLM: No doubt. For safety and for health and the health of the environment absolutely. But we can do a heck of a lot better in terms of streamlining regulations. Leveraging technology. Making sure there's not duplicate regulations that the Feds will state in local level. There's a lot we can do to make it easy for job providers to choose to manufacture in the united states. To make the U.S. irresistible to job providers. And that's what she has been talking about. And by the way Poppy, I know he's going to be talking tomorrow and you'll asking critics about this but everybody who has looked at Donald Trump's economic plan to date has declared it essentially a disaster. I mean, if you look at the Moody's analysis that --

HARLOW: Let me get Curtis in there and ask him about that, Governor.

GRANHOLM: OK.

HARLOW: Because she's pointing to this Moody's study back in June that said that Donald Trump's economic plan would mean a 3.5 million American jobs would be lost. Unemployment would hit seven percent. They also pointed out Curtis that the economic plan he proposed then was pretty lacking in terms of details for them to get a very accurate read. Assuming we'll get more details tomorrow, what does he need to do to get the assessment of economists that he will be in that positive job creator?

ELLIS: Yes. Well, tomorrow we'll be hearing from Mr. Trump about trade reform, tax reform, regulatory reform and energy reform to make America the best place on earth to do business.

HARLOW: Specifics.

ELLIS: Now, per that Moody's study, it's very interesting. That study said it would actually lead Donald Trump's policies is outlined, would actually lead to a rise in wages for Americans, I think that's a good outcome.

HARLOW: They actually said it would lead to a recession.

ELLIS: They said it would raise labor costs. You want to translate that into everyday American language? It means you get a pay raise. The globalist elites who ran these corporations are going to have to pay you more because there are going to be fewer people competing for the jobs if we don't have unrestricted immigration. That's what the Moody study said.

[19:36:20] HARLOW: I want to be clear with our viewers --

ELLIS: That's what the Moody study said.

HARLOW: -- on what the Moody's study said.

ELLIS: Yes.

HARLOW: And he did say that it would lead to 3.5 million American job losses. Seven percent unemployment and a decline in home prices and a recession.

ELLIS: And it's interesting that the jobs tour that Governor Granholm pointed to, Hillary Clinton stopped at a toy factory and she said the toy manufacturing is an example of the jobs of tomorrow she's going to create. Well, it's very interesting. The toy industry is one of the industries that was outsourced as a result of NAFTA and as a result of the China trade policy that the Clintons brought us the last time they were in the White House. And will bring more of if they get back --

HARLOW: So on trade --

(CROSSTALK)

ELLIS: -- Trans-Pacific Partnership.

HARLOW: On trade, Governor Granholm, you know, look, this is something that has really resonated with so many voters, especially those along the rust belt, especially those who have lost good paying manufacturing jobs. You know, when you look at Clinton who she called TPP the gold standard before now. She says, she's against that trade proposal. But to Curtis' point on these trade deals, do we need to hear a different message from her on how she would work to reform the deals?

GRANHOLM: She made it very clear in this tour and before that she will not approve the Trans-Pacific Partnership --

HARLOW: Right.

GRANHOLM: -- that she will only enter into trade deals that benefit the U.S., that she would adopt a trade prosecutor to prosecute violations of trade by our trading partners who are taking advantage of us. That she would go after China's manipulation of currency. She has made it really clear that she's going to be tough on trade and make insure that jobs are created in America. Unlike Donald Trump who has taken advantage of these trade agreements to offshore all of these jobs and make products in China and Mexico and Bangladesh and everywhere else.

It's such a tale of two stories -- tale of two cities. And by the way, she has said very clearly about NAFTA that we learned our lesson from NAFTA. That you cannot allow NAFTA to stand. That you have to make sure that you enforce the trade provisions and make sure that NAFTA is tough. We've had a really not been as aggressive as we could have been at the World Trade Organization, which is why she wants to make sure -- put in place a trade prosecutor to make sure that it benefits our businesses.

HARLOW: But both of them are in the same page then in terms of trying to rework these trade deals if they can. Curtis, we keep hearing from Donald Trump, he will be the best jobs creator in American history. At the same time, the world has changed. The jobs of yesterday are not the jobs of tomorrow. And the reality is, if you're going to be honest with the American voter that a number of those manufacturing jobs that have been lost are not jobs that are going to come back in this economy. Technology has completely changed the game.

ELLIS: That's not exactly true. There are many jobs that can be done here in America that are not being done. It's a result of the policies of the Clintons, NAFTA, permanent normal trade relations with China which caused large chunks of American industry to move out of this country to places like Mexico and China. They used to make cars in Flint, Michigan, and you couldn't drink the water in Mexico.

Now you can't drink the water in Flint, Michigan, and they make cars in Mexico. I mean, this is ridiculous. The entire automotive industry has moved offshore. We can move those jobs back here with the right policies of trade reform, tax reform, regulatory reform and energy reform. And that's what Mr. Trump is going to lay out in his speech tomorrow in Detroit.

HARLOW: Final 30 seconds.

GRANHOLM: We don't disagree that we can do stuff in the United States that will get advanced manufacturing back to this country. But I will say, Curtis, I mean, I know you helped to draft Donald Trump's speech for tomorrow, but if you listen to all these players who have looked at what his policies are so far, the tax policy center saying that his economic plan would blow a hole of historic proportions in the national debt. "The Washington Post" saying there's fantasy math and then there's Donald Trump's economic plan, the economists saying Donald Trump's plan is a fantasy.

The tax foundation, this is my favorite and I'll stop on this. The tax foundation economist and the tax foundation is a conservative entity on his tax plan. It's not consistent, this is a quote, "It's not consistent with historical experience." It's more consistent with a world where we're hiring butlers for our vacation homes on Ganymede, Ganymede is a moon of Jupiter. That is what respective entities think about Donald Trump's economic plan.

ELLIS: These are all the globalists who benefited from the status quo that the American people are rejecting in huge numbers.

HARLOW: Curtis Ellis, Jennifer Granholm, Governor Granholm, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Up next, live here in the CNN NEWSROOM, we will speak to an expert in the art. The dark art of optics about what it takes to make politicians look as good as possible to you, the voter, and the mistakes made by the current presidential front-runners.

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[19:44:37] HARLOW: Optics. Have you heard that enough this election season? You're going to hear it a lot more in politics. It is all about making a candidate look good. When political operatives failed to do that, they seem cost their candidate to the White House. Of course, this election season has been like none we have seen before.

Let's talk about all that with Josh King, author of "Off Script: An Advance Man's Guide to White House Stagecraft, Campaign Spectacle, and Political Suicide." What a title. You'll going to read that book. That's for sure.

JOSH KING, AUTHOR, "OFF SCRIPT": Thanks for having me on.

HARLOW: Thank you for being with me. We appreciate it. You're a former director of production for political events under Bill Clinton's administration. In this election, what I think is interesting Josh is we have two candidates who are very well known. Arguably celebrity candidates. Very well known, not very well liked.

KING: Yep.

HARLOW: How much can their people do to change that?

KING: Well, the candidate it all comes down to the candidates themselves, Poppy, and how they spend their days from the moment they wake up until very late at night. Working with Governor Bill Clinton in 1992, President Clinton in '96, here was a guy who used every minute possible on the campaign trail right up until midnight shaking hands, doing what we call OTRs, sitting at the local restaurants, wherever the city that he was going to be in. And then bedding down for the night in the town that he was visiting or in the next day's events.

What I find interesting about this cycle is you actually see the candidates getting back in their plane and coming back to New York for overnights. You saw a tweet that Donald Trump sent out of him and actually having a bucket of Kentucky fried chicken on the plane ready to get home. Where is the communing with the country that you're trying to get to know better during these important summer weeks?

HARLOW: Right. And Hillary Clinton has been criticized by many certainly, by many journalists for not taking more questions. I mean, she hasn't had a formal press conference since December 4th of last year. And she's seen as guarded and then other folks say Trump is too off the cuff.

KING: Uh-hm.

HARLOW: So if you were managing the optics for the two of them, what do you do?

KING: Well, you know that she is taking a lot of local media availabilities, the places that she goes.

HARLOW: Right.

KING: But you are at CNN. You know how this process works. Let's share it with the viewers, which is ground rules. If you decide with the reporters that follow you that we're going to have an off the record conversation for the next 15 minutes, the way that she might have been when she ran for the Senate in 2000 and 2006 when you could get to know her views on important matters without it becoming the next big screaming headline or the next tweet out, then you'd build these kinds of relationships. You can't do that as much anymore. And so, in terms of the national reporters who are following her, everything that she says is on the record. And you'll see her having these conversations with local affiliates, not as much those who are covering her daily.

HARLOW: You worked with Bill Clinton's administration. How can she best use her husband right now?

KING: Well, I think you see him with a very active schedule going to media markets that mean everything for her. I mean, every state now it looks after this week is in play. The Arkansass, the Tennessee, the Georgians --

HARLOW: Georgia.

KING: -- the, you know, states that would -- even Utah and Arizona. So if you send Bill Clinton to media markets that he'll be able to draw a crowd to, places where maybe investment of her time doesn't make as much sense, keep her in the battlegrounds but send him farther afield, he can do a lot of goodness.

HARLOW: I wonder if you think after the week that was for Donald Trump or really tough week, a tumultuous week, the polling shows it, if you think reining him in. If Manafort can really rein him in, if that really benefits him in the long run. Because isn't what people love about him the fact that he said exactly what was top of mind?

KING: Well, Poppy, people want to like him. I mean, so if Trump is at all likable, then he needs to do the things that, you know, would make you bond to a 70-year-old billionaire. It may not be possible. But for him to do the things that he did last week on the stump, you know, you may want to see him have that nice conversation with a baby and not have the re-joinder that says get the kid out of here. I mean --

HARLOW: He says we the media got the baby thing wrong.

KING: But it, well, the pictures didn't lie and it pissed a lot of people off.

HARLOW: Right.

KING: And that was just the tip of the iceberg to say nothing of the Khan family. So, and everything else that went down last week. Do I hope for the country that we have a better week this week, that we have a more thoughtful debate? Of course. It will start tomorrow with these dueling economic speeches.

HARLOW: Right.

KING: But, you know, Trump and Secretary Clinton should both show a lot more joy out on the campaign trail.

HARLOW: Hmm. Joy?

KING: Enjoy the places that they're going to.

HARLOW: Enjoy the ride?

KING: Enjoy the ride indeed.

HARLOW: All right. A lesson. A good lesson for a Sunday night. Thank you.

KING: My pleasure, Poppy.

HARLOW: Josh, nice to meet you.

KING: Nice to meet you too.

HARLOW: I appreciate it. Enjoy the ride.

All right. Switching gears here. Take a look at this. Those are live pictures out of Chicago. Right now, a very large protest is under way, organized in response to the death of 18-year-old Paul O'Neill, an unarmed black teenager shot and killed by police. We will take you live to Chicago, next.

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[19:53:06] HARLOW: All right. I want to take you now to Chicago, two days after Chicago police released videos relating to the killing of this unarmed black teenager Paul O'Neill by police. Protesters have gathered in Chicago.

Our Rosa Flores is there with me this evening. And you know, when this video was released of this car chase that led to the police firing and killing Paul O'Neill, the head of the police oversight board called this video shocking and disturbing. What are the protesters saying tonight?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hey, Poppy. Let me show you around, first of all. It's a small crowd. They've watched her about a mile here in downtown Chicago, mainly in the downtown area, in the loop. Right now they're sitting in a sit-in at this intersection that you're taking a look at. Like you've mentioned, this is in solidarity for Paul O'Neill, he is the 18-year-old who police say was driving a stolen black jaguar when he hit a police cruiser head on. Then he fled on foot.

Police officers went on and chased him and one police officer shot and killed him. The medical examiner does say that he died from one gunshot wound. But like you mentioned, in this new era of transparency and accountability in the city of Chicago, the superintendent of police was very swift to lift the powers, the police powers of the three police officers who fired their weapons. And so they were stripped from their police powers. And as you can see, you can probably see some of the police officers around, the police officers here facilitating this demonstration to make sure that these protesters can demonstrate around the city of Chicago. And they've been doing so very peacefully, Poppy.

And again, it's a small group. They started probably about an hour ago. They had a few speakers, and then they started marching here in downtown Chicago. But it's all very peaceful. They've mainly been delivering messages of solidarity and of course justice for Paul O'Neill -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Rosa Flores live for us in Chicago. Please do keep us posted on that. Rosa, thank you so much.

Quick break. We'll be right back.

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[19:58:36] HARLOW: Finally, tonight's number. This weekend, the number is 25 because this weekend is the 25th birthday of the World Wide Web. On August 6th, 1991, the first public website went live. You're looking at it. That's what it looked like, nothing fancy, black text and blue links on a white background, an idea that made real by a computer scientist Tim Berners-Lee. An idea that has completely and totally transformed our lives and society when that first site went live on the web.

Right next on CNN, how did the notorious drug lord "El Chapo" evade authorities so many times, twice escaping maximum security prisons?

Our Chris Cuomo takes you inside his hideout. A special CNN report, "Got Shorty: Inside the Chase for El Chapo." Than at 9:00 Eastern, go on the hunt with John Walsh, and at 10:00,

CNN's declassified, "Cuba: Traitor on the Inside." I'm Poppy Harlow. Thank you so much for being with me tonight. Have a great week.

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