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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Obama Calls Trump Unfit; Obama on TPP. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired August 2, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:04] LEE HSIEN LOONG, SINGAPOREAN PRIME MINISTER: The economic arguments for the TPP in terms of trade, I think the president has presented them eloquently, what the benefits are to American companies. It's a deal which the countries have negotiated, each one providing market access on their side in return for gaining market access on the other side, each one committing to rules in exchange for the other side committing to rules.

It's a hard-fought bargaining process. The negotiators spent many trips, many nights, many dawns and fought it out. But actually, at the end of it, everybody must decide is it a plus or a minus for them. And I think in your case, Mike Froman did a very good job as USTR. Our various trade representatives and negotiators did their best to make sure that they could bring back something which the political leaderships could stand by and support.

And it's an achievement that all the members of the TPP, at the end of this, are still with us and nobody has dropped out of this. So obviously, there is something in it for each one of us.

And I think we should also look at the other side of the economic benefit, which is not the producers. I'm making -- I'm exporting, therefore I'm earning a job. But also, I am spending, I am consuming, I am importing. And because it's freed up trade, I'm getting a wider range of products, of services, of opportunities which will improve my livelihood.

People talk about Wal-Mart, that products come from all over Asia. Who benefits? Wal-Mart? Many people in America, not just exporters. But even people living in the Rust Belt, people living in the Midwest. These are part of your everyday invisible standard of living. And yet, it's real and it's valuable.

So in terms of economic benefits, the TPP is a big deal. I think in terms of America's engagement of the region, you have put your reputation on the line. It is the big thing which America is doing in the Asia-Pacific with the Obama administration consistently over many, many years of hard work and pushing.

And your partners, your friends who have come to the table, who have negotiated, each one of them has overcome some domestic political objection, some sensitivity, some political cost to come to the table and make this deal.

And if at the end, waiting at the altar the bride doesn't arrive, I think there are people who are going to be very hurt. Not just emotionally, but really damaged for a long time to come. Mr. Abe, for example. Several of his predecessors thought seriously about and decided not to participate in the TPP. They came very close, they prepared the ground, they walked away. But Mr. Abe came through and decided to commit. Why? Because he wants to help -- he wants his country to benefit and to open up its markets. And this is one way to do it.

And you don't do this. While (ph) it hurts Mr. Abe is one thing, but it hurts your relationship with Japan, your security agreement with Japan and the Japanese living in an uncertain world depending on an American nuclear umbrella. We'll (ph) have to say on trade, the Americans could not follow through. If it's life and death, whom do I have to depend upon? It's an absolutely serious calculation which will not be said openly, but I have no doubts it will be thought (ph).

I think if you go beyond that, I'd like to link up the TPP question with an earlier question from Nicholas (ph) which is where do we go over the next 50 years. And that really depends whether we go towards interdependence, and therefore peaceful cooperation, or whether we go for self-sufficiency, rivalry and therefore a higher risk of conflict.

Asia has tried both. The world has tried both. In the 1930s with Smoot-Hawley, with the Depression, with a very difficult international environment, you went for protectionist policies. You had a rivalry with Japan, which led to war.

After the war, because America was open, because you promoted trade, because you encouraged investments and encouraged other countries to open up, therefore the Asia-Pacific has been peaceful and the Pax Americana has been a Pax (ph) and not a war.

LEE: If over the next 50 years you continue to work towards interdependence and cooperation and mutual prosperity, then 50 years from now, we can say these have been peaceful years and we have made further progress together.

[12:05:12] But if you go in the opposite direction, and you decide if this is a big Pacific, but it's big enough to split it down the middle, and one chunk is mine, and the other chunk belongs to some of the Asians -- China, or India or Japan -- I think that's a very different world.

One of the reasons why you don't have a -- you have a manageable relationship with China now is because you have trade. It's enormous, it's mutually beneficial. Both sides want to maintain that relationship.

If you didn't, it would be like the Soviet Union during the Cold War, when you had negligible trade, and -- well, you still had to find ways to work together, but it's much harder.

The TPP doesn't include China, although some people think it does. But the TPP points a direction towards the world, towards your whole orientation of your society. And if you set the wrong direction, maybe in the next 50 years, sometime you will turn around. But it will cost you many years, and the world have -- will have to pay quite a high price.

Yeah?

QUESTION: My name is Lee (ph) (inaudible) from the Business Times in Singapore.

Good afternoon, President Obama, Prime Minister Lee. I have two questions. The first is just a followup to the TPP. I mean, a lot has been said -- everyone knows what's at stake, but what is the future of the TPP if it does not get ratified by generally (ph) -- the lame duck session?

What -- the fear is that if things wait too long, the -- you know -- and it would need to be reopened up for renegotiation, and that's -- that will probably kill the deal.

Post (inaudible), is that, how can we reassure the TPP nations and the people that there is the political will to get this done as soon as possible?

The second question is for President Obama. We are almost at the end of your eight years in office. I would like you to evaluate the progress of the U.S. rebalance to Asia. What is the -- what is something that you're most proud of?

Is there something that you would have done differently? And what is your message to your successor, whoever he or she may be, to continue to engage Singapore, Southeast Asia, and the rest of the Asia-Pacific?

Thank you.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, with respect to TPP, I -- I though that Prime Minister Lee's points were right on target.

And this is an economic agreement, but what we've learned in history is, is that you can't separate out economic interests and issues and security issues and interests.

And the prime minister is absolutely right. We have benefited from enormous peace and prosperity around the world. And unprecedented period where the great powers were not engaged in conflict, in part because of growing inter-dependence.

If you think about those parts of the world where we still see conflict, where we still see high levels of violence, they're typically places that are less integrated into the world economy -- and there is a reason for that.

So, I think there is a -- a powerful economic case, just a basic bread-and-butter case to be made about why this is good for American workers and good for American exports, and ultimately good for American wages, if it's structured properly. But I also think that there is a strong security component to this. And what I also think is important is for people to recognize that the alternative is not TPP or some imaginary circumstance in which suddenly, we're able to sell goods around the world wherever we want, but nobody is able to sell goods to us.

Where we can operate anywhere around the world under fair rules, but they can't operate here in that fashion. That's not -- whatever is being imagined as the alternative is not the alternative; the alternative is what we have today, a situation in which we don't have as many protections around labor and environmental issues as we'd like.

[12:10:05] A situation in which there are countries like Japan that sell a lot of goods here, but that keep pretty restricted access for U.S. companies and U.S. workers to their markets.

And Prime Minister Lee is right that Prime Minister Abe of Japan, for example, has taken some significant risks because he knows that he needs to make his economy more competitive, and as consequence is willing to open up access that we haven't seen in the past. And that's a big market. It's still one of the top three economies in the world.

So, the last point I'd make around this is China. As Prime Minister Lee mentioned, China is not a part of TPP. But if we don't establish strong rules and norms for how trade and commerce are conducted in the Asia-Pacific region, then China will.

I mean, China is already engaging all of the countries in the region around its own version of trade agreements, and they're sure not worried about labor standards, or environmental standards, or human trafficking or anti-corruption measures. So, you -- you get a low standard, lowest common denominator trade deal. And if America isn't creating high standards, then China's rules will govern in the fastest growing part of the world.

That's bad for us economically, but it's also bad for security interests. It's also bad for the interest in promoting norms against child labor, or against human trafficking, or making sure that everybody is working harder to raise conservation standards. And that's the alternative, that's the option.

So, I think it is very important for us to get this done. In terms of assurances, you know, nothing in life is -- is certain, but we've got a pretty good track record of getting stuff done when I think it's important.

And -- and I will say this that, you know, this -- this actually is not just an Obama administration initiative. This concept began in a Republican administration. We pushed it through, we made it happen. We made sure that the things that I care about in terms of labor and environmental standards were incorporated into it. But historically, this is headstrong bipartisan support.

So the bottom line is we'll go out there, and we're going to make those arguments and ultimately, I think we are going to be successful.

In terms of my rebalance legacy, you know, across the board, we are just in the game. We are focused on Asia in a way that we weren't when I came into office. And the countries in Asia have noticed.

Our alliances are stronger. Our security arrangements are deeper, whether in Australia, or the Philippines or Singapore. Our defense budgets reflect our commitment to things like maritime security in the region.

The continuing efforts around building the East Asia Summit architecture means that there's the kind of day-to-day interaction around a whole range of issues, whether it's disaster relief, or public health issues or counter-terrorism. There is consultations that are taking place today that were not taking place eight years ago.

So, I think on every dimension, we are in a much stronger position to engage, influence and learn from our Asia-Pacific partners.

The thing I probably enjoy most has been our Young Southeast Asian Leaders Program, just because whenever I meet with the young people from ASEAN countries, I am inspired.

OBAMA: It makes me very optimistic about the future and what's going to happen over those next 50 years, because if you ask them about the future that they want to see, they are very much committed to an interdependent world, a world in which people are learning and exchanging ideas and engaged in scientific and educational exchange.

[12:15:17] And a world in which peoples' different cultures and backgrounds are a source of strength and cooperation as opposed to conflict and fear.

And that's true in Southeast Asia. That's true in Africa. That's true in Latin America. That's true in Europe. A lot of this fear, the choice that was posed by Prime Minister Lee between interdependence and self-sufficiency that is not achievable and ultimately rivalry and conflict, those who opt for rivalry are folks who are looking backwards.

You talk to young people around the world, they understand that interdependence is the way that we're going to assure peace and prosperity for all of us for years to come. And so that may be the thing that has some of the most lasting impact. I suspect in some of those town hall meetings I've had, there's some future prime ministers and presidents and business leaders, not-for-profit leaders that are going to do great things. And I'm glad to have been able to have played a small part in that.

LEE: Thank you. Thank you very much.

[12:18:42] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: He was referring to the speaker of the House, the Senate majority leader and other Republicans, including Senator John McCain, who have all suggested that Donald Trump was simply completely wrong in his statements involving that gold star family, the Khans, who lost a son, Captain Khan, fighting for the United States in Iraq.

I'm joined now by our senior political reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson, and our CNN political analyst and Washington bureau of "The Daily Beast" Jackie Kucinich.

The president has said before that Donald Trump was unfit, temperamentally unfit. That's those - that's the phrase that Hillary Clinton uses. But this time he was much stronger.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right. And he has used the word "unqualified," as well. But this is a break. This is a departure from the way we've seen this president talk about Donald Trump. It's really a departure from the way we've seen any I think candidate who's going against another candidate in a presidential campaign. And he said that. He said he may have disagreed with Mitt Romney. He may have disagreed with John McCain. But if those two had won the White House, he wouldn't have any problems in terms of how they would actually operate in the office.

I mean this was I think a preview of what we're going to see from this president. His speech last week I think hinted at some of these things, but it certainly didn't use this strong a language in terms of characterizing Donald Trump. This goes to Donald Trump's character, it goes to his judgment, it goes to his temperament and it goes to his knowledge. So I - strong words here and we'll see what not only Donald Trump does with this. We understand that he's campaigning now. I'm sure he'll be on Twitter at some point talking about this. But, again, this is a pretty, I think, strong and significant break with the way we've heard this president talk about Trump.

[12:20:20] BLITZER: You heard - you heard, Jackie, the president say Donald Trump is woefully unprepared to do the job.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I think there is a little bit of trolling going on with Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan.

HENDERSON: Yes.

KUCINICH: Because he's not - he knows this is an arranged marriage. He knows that they did not want Donald Trump to be their nominee. But I would expect you start hearing, particularly Mitch McConnell start talking a lot about the Supreme Court, all about the Supreme Court, because that - that is the selling point for Donald Trump to Republicans right now, because if Hillary Clinton wins, they're not going to get who they want on the court and it could change the court for, you know, a generation.

BLITZER: It's clearly a stronger statement from the president than even we heard, Jackie, from the Democratic nominee.

KUCINICH: Absolutely. I mean but Obama does have a little bit more leeway there. He's the outgoing president. He can really take it to Donald Trump. He doesn't like Donald Trump. HENDERSON: Right. It's personal.

KUCINICH: It's personal. It goes way back. It goes back to the birth certificate. So now that he has the opportunity to call him woefully unprepared, and that's - this is an epithodic (ph) gap, he's going to take it.

BLITZER: He says this is a man who should not have the most powerful position in the world. Strong words from the president.

Andre Bauer is a former lieutenant governor of South Carolina who supports Donald Trump for president. Bakari Sellers is a CNN commentator, former member of the South Carolina legislature who supports Hillary Clinton.

Let me get, Andre, your reaction, when the president of the United States says that Donald Trump is unfit - unfit to be president of the United States and that Republicans who have condemned his statements on this family, the Khan family, they should rethink their support for Donald Trump.

ANDRE BAUER, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA LT. GOVERNOR: Well, I disagree with his nominee for president. I actually think she's unfit to be president. So, you know, it's an opinionated fact that two elected folks to office can have. I think he took longer to answer that question than any other question in the press conference. And it seemed to me to be the wrong place to continue on about it. I understand he had to answer the question, but I kind of thought it was supposed to be more about the TPP and it got diverted from the get-go into being more about Donald Trump and his competency for president.

BLITZER: Well, that was the first question that a reporter asked about Donald Trump, statements he's made about Russia and other issues. The president took that opportunity to respond and to say that Donald Trump is not fit to be - is unfit to be president. Andre, your reaction? Excuse me, Bakari, your reaction?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN COMMENTATOR: Well, this is coming from a president who has a 54 percent approval rating. It's the highest approval rating he's had since he's been reelected. They were very, very strong words that he used and I think that he was challenging Mitch McConnell and Speaker Ryan to just come out and say something, to actually use Donald Trump's name when they're repudiating him for these comments. Whether or not it's the nuclear triad or whether or not it's the annexation of Crimea, Donald Trump has repeatedly showed that he does not grasp these very, very fundamental issues of the world at large. And then when you go to the fact that he uses this defensive, disrespectful rhetoric, going after the Khans being the newest example, it just shows that Donald Trump has a long way to go.

I do disagree with President Obama on one front. It seems as if the president was attempting to separate Donald Trump from the Republican Party. I just think that Donald Trump is a culmination of what the Republican Party has become over the past 20 years or so. So I don't think there's any difference between Donald Trump and the leadership of the Republican Party. He is the standard bearer. I think that he is the culmination of where the Republican Party is right now.

BLITZER: And the president, you know, Nia, was pretty blunt in saying the Republican Party should not have nominated Donald Trump to be its nomine.

HENDERSON: That's right. And, really I think at this point, he's talking to Republican voters. He's trying to tell Republican voters not to vote for Donald Trump, to essentially either stay home or vote for Hillary Clinton. And we saw the beginning of that, I mean, what I think the Clinton campaign is calling a permission structure, to give Republicans permission to vote for Hillary Clinton. We saw Ted Cruz sort of make a similar argument during his speech, voting your conscience, voting for a real conservative. So I think that's what's going on there. They want to get some of those Republicans and some of those Republican leaning independents to give Hillary Clinton a second look. We saw, obviously, Bloomberg make the same appeal to Republicans. So I think that's what he's up to there.

KUCINICH: But I think Bloomberg is a better messenger than the president. The president is so polarizing with Republicans at this point. I mean his polls are very high with Democrats and independents in terms of a second term president, but when it comes to Republicans, they still don't really like him. So I think you might want to leave that messaging to maybe some of the Republicans who are out there talking about Hillary Clinton than maybe bring it on himself. He won't be able to resist, but I think they might be the better messenger in terms of reaching those ears at this point.

[12:25:08] BLITZER: The president also said that, "I strongly support the Trans-Pacific Partnership. That was the other big issue that came up. He also made the case that even though Hillary Clinton now opposes the TPP, as it's called, Tim Kaine opposes it, even though he earlier supported it, Donald Trump strongly opposes it, Bernie Sanders opposes it. The president made it clear that he said right now I'm president, I'm for it, and he says he's going to do everything he can during the lame duck session after the November 8th election to get it passed.

Maggie Lake is joining us. She's our CNN business correspondent.

Maggie, let me play the clip for you. This is the president making the case for TPP.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, right now, I'm president, and I'm for it. And I think I've got the better argument. And I've made this argument before. I'll make it again. We are part of a global economy. We're not reversing that. It can't be reversed, because it is driven by technology and it is driven by travel and cargo containers. And the fact that the demand for products inside of our country means we've got to get some things from other places. And our export sector is a huge contributor to jobs and our economic well- being. Most manufactured products now involve a global supply chain where parts are made in all corners of the globe and converge and then get assembled and package and sold. And so the notion that we're going to pull that up root and branch is unrealistic. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Maggie Lake, he's responding to the Democratic nominee and certainly the Republican nominee, both of whom say they oppose the TPP right now.

MAGGIE LAKE, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, and you can hear him taking on that criticism. He didn't mention Hillary Clinton by name, but he said I have friends that I respect but that I disagree with. And he really talked about this concern about what it's going to do to the American workers. And he tried to say, yes, those past trade deals didn't live up to expectations, communities were hurt, workers lost their jobs and we didn't do enough to address it at the time. But this deal will do that. We can't turn back time. It's the only alternative out there. You can't have some imaginary plan that lets us freely trade with the world and we don't get anything back. This is the best way to do it.

And, Wolf, he also brought up another important point and he was more specific about it than he'd been in the past, and that is the political aspect, saying, if we don't pass this, it's going to allow China to basically write the economic rules for the world. And you heard the Singapore prime minister weigh in on that as well, saying this is an important symbol of the U.S. commitment to the Asia region and that if they don't passes it, if it's not passed it's going to hurt the U.S. credibility. So you not only saw the economic rebuttal to what you're hearing on the campaign trail, but also the political argument for it.

BLITZER: Yes, basically he was also saying, Maggie, that he understands the politics of the TPP right now. He's going to wait until after the election. He says after the election, after the dust settles, he's going to speak to Republicans, speak to Democrats, and to try to get it passed during that so-called lame duck session before he leaves office on January 20th of next year. What's the assessment? Is that doable right now given the makeup of the - of the Senate let's say?

LAKE: I think it's going to be tough. A lot tougher than he'd like it to be. I mean it may not be impossible. The business community wants to see this happen. But there are a lot of concerns. And it's not just on the campaign trail. You hear some economists say, you know, we didn't really anticipate, what does this global economy mean for the worker? There's a lot of dissatisfaction out there. So it's going to be a really tough sell. Again, if they combine the economic with the political perhaps and if they can combine that with some measures to offer workers retraining, maybe they'll have some hope. But it's going to be a hard sell, Wolf.

BLITZER: Nia, were you surprised how tough the president was in his - in stating, restating strong support for the TPP?

HENDERSON: No. I mean this is something he wants to happen. We'll see if it gets done in a lame duck session. This, he thinks, is part of his legacy. And you've obviously seen Hillary Clinton flip-flop on it. You've seen Tim Kaine do the same thing. And this is a real opening, I think, for Donald Trump to go to these rust belt states and talk about trade deals, the trade deals that this president supports and the trade deal that Hillary Clinton has supported in the past as well.

BLITZER: He's got a lot of opposition, including from the Democratic presidential nominee.

[12:29:57] KUCINICH: If everything wasn't sort of crazy right now, we'd be talking about how the president went after - said that Hillary Clinton's being politically unrealistic when it comes to the TPP, but he does, he faces serious headwinds.