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CNN NEWSROOM

Melania Trump's Speech Controversy; Chris Christie Defends Melania; Ex-Navy Seal Rep. Ryan Zinke Slams Clinton. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired July 19, 2016 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Scottie.

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I know. Listen, this is not a traditional campaign, you're right. In the past, that's how they've done it. This is not traditional (ph). I don't think it's so farfetched. Prior to last night, Melania told us she had worked five weeks on this speech herself. I think she actually possibly did her research. I think great minds think alike. I think it -- she was inspired by Michelle Obama's. Those are common themes, family values, taking care of yourself. I think she did incorporate.

There's also a thought that she put in Rick Astley's "Never Gonna Let You Down" song. There's a line from there. I think she incorporated it all within this speech. And I have to wonder, though, I mean, yes, it's a little bit of a controversy. We know she is a smart woman. She speaks three languages. She was speaking in front of millions of people on this. I agree, somebody needs to be fired. It's the person that probably read over her speech. But I think we at least got to give her credit for possibly writing this on her own and doing her own and not just staffing it off to people. That's kind of a sign that maybe shoe won't have 25 staff -- or taxpayer dollar staffers working for her when she joins the White House.

COSTELLO: So, Brian --

JOHN AVLON, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "THE DAILY BEAST": That's -- that's a long (INAUDIBLE).

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know she will --

COSTELLO: Brian, have we heard from Donald Trump?

STELTER: That's the big question, we haven't heard from Trump. He hasn't tweeted about this. He is said to be furious about this privately, but he hasn't come out and said that publicly. I'm really curious to see what he'll do about this, because he's back in New York. He's back at Trump Tower. But he has an opportunity via Twitter or on TV tonight to address this.

Let's be honest, if this happened to one of us in college, if we had turned in this paper, we would get in a lot of trouble (INAUDIBLE).

HUGHES: Joe Biden. Joe Biden. Joe Biden.

COSTELLO: If it happened to us now in our professions, we would be fired.

STELTER: That's right. That's right. But that said, I think we should all be sympathetic to Melania Trump. She got up there for the biggest speech of her life, in front of these intimidating lights and cameras and Teleprompters and she did seem to pull it off, except for some of these words.

AVLON: Well, and that's -- that's how this becomes a metaphor for the state of this campaign. She did have what was objectively a strong night. It's a difficult lift. She performed well. And yet they step all over their message with these unforced errors. And it really is just a reflection of the campaign writ large.

Let's not try to spin or diminish this, though. I mean it's not -- it's not insignificant that the Republican Party, who certainly eight years ago were all about criticizing Michelle Obama, questioning whether she loved America, questioning whether she could be an effective first lady, someone who's now proven to be enormously powerful and effective, have been plagiarized by the Republican nominee. It -- imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

HUGHES: But it's -- but it's common words, though. Those are common things. I mean they were criticizing Michelle Obama for not like crossing her hand over her heart. Big different in that one.

AVLON: Yes, but that -- but that's like, you know, musicians use common notes and yet all the songs sound different.

HUGHES: Well, no, and actually they all kind of sound the same. I mean you (INAUDIBLE) all the time.

AVLON: But (INAUDIBLE).

HUGHES: I mean this happens in politics all the time on this side of --

STELTER: And this is why people tune out politics because all the speeches do sound the same because they sound hollow.

COSTELLO: But here's the thing, and it's going back to your original point. She was supposed to be talking about her husband.

AVLON: Right.

COSTELLO: And I'm going to ask you, because your husband is sitting right beside you.

AVLON: Here.

COSTELLO: You're standing on the stage. Couldn't you find one example of something that John did that was warm and fuzzy and you could say --

STELTER: Oh, not John. John?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: When you -- when you think -- I mean you can think back to previous future first ladies or women who have been in that position. Cindy McCain, Laura Bush, Michelle Obama, all of them gave --

COSTELLO: Ann Romney.

STELTER: Yes.

HOOVER: Ann Romney gave lovely testimonials about how in her -- in high school she met Mitt and how, you know, she waited on him when he went on a mission. And there are all these sort of personal stories that -- that really showed behind the curtain about who they are as a person. And that you didn't get in the context of her speech.

STELTER: But they both have (INAUDIBLE).

HUGHES: But why are we even -- but we don't need to be judging her marriage. Yes, that's not her brand, but that's not their marriage.

COSTELLO: But what I'm trying to get at, instead it's coming out that she supposedly pulled passages from another first lady's speech. So then you have to think about the speech in its entirety and if it was completely sincere.

HUGHES: I don't think we need to sit there and judge what their marriage is like. I mean, first of all, she's not a -- all those women you mentioned are traditional politician's wives. They've been on the campaign trail. It's not -- it's obviously, you know, she's not used to being a political wife and to be sitting there giving stump speeches like this.

AVLON: But, let's be real, this isn't a policy speech --

HOOVER: She's not --

AVLON: Where the words have enormous meaning and so sometimes she can get close to --

HUGHES: Obviously, they do. We're talking --

AVLON: Right. This is about speaking from the heart, and that's supposed to be something that people do authentically at a spur of the moment, no matter how hard the (INAUDIBLE).

HUGHES: But maybe this is her heart. How -- who are you to say that this isn't her heart?

(CROSS TALK)

HOOVER: Talking from Michelle Obama?

(CROSS TALK)

STELTER: Let's see her speak more Let's see her do interviews and talk about this. She said that we can trust him. And a lot of people, a lot of snarky people on Twitter said, well, she's in her third -- that he's in his third marriage. There was a lot of that kind of snark during this speech. And I think the solution to that, and the solution to this controversy, for her to speak more.

AVLON: Is to be real.

STELTER: Right, to talk about this and come out and --

AVLON: Absolutely. Look, remember the story about Mitt Romney, how he shut down Bain Capital to help find a partner's daughter when she went missing in Boston? Those sorts of stories that reveal the character of the man, those are enormously powerful. Those exist in every family, in every friendship, in every relationship. Why not highlight those rather than going to boilerplate?

HUGHES: But people -- people see those for what those are. Those are just being told to sit there and gain (ph) votes and to gain that type of --

HOOVER: I don't know.

HUGHES: Let's ask -- you know what, they're actually being honest right now. That's how their marriage possibly is. Not everybody has --

AVLON: Superficial and boiler plate?

HOOVER: No, no, to be fair --

HUGHES: That's your opinion. That might be a very good reason that they've been together for 18 years.

AVLON: No, (INAUDIBLE).

HOOVER: Your former boss, our former boss, Rudy Giuliani actually even sort of shed behind the curtain a little bit on this last night. He said, Donald Trump helped people, you know, at the time when I was mayor, privately, , anonymously, helping firefighters, helping police officers.

STELTER: That was very interesting.

HOOVER: That was actually the only character reference until --

COSTELLO: But even he was not specific. But he said that, but he didn't (INAUDIBLE).

STELTER: No, we (INAUDIBLE) reporting. But that was interesting. That was a (INAUDIBLE). We didn't hear that from him (ph).

[09:35:00] HUGHES: Go look at the park in New York City. I -- you know, there's so many times that he's actually opened his heart and been generous. The ice skating rink that he ended up finished with his own funds. There are times -- I mean look at the woman that he bought her farm when her husband could not make the payment and committed suicide. There's so many examples. But that's not how Trumps are. They don't go out there and brag. And they don't sit there and say --

HOOVER: (INAUDIBLE)

HUGHES: No, not when it -- not when it comes to their private charity. I think that most people would not know any of these stories if he was not running for president. This's not doing this to gain political favor when he does those sorts of things. This is not a public family. She married a celebrity, not a politician. Let's give her some grace, folks, and not just (INAUDIBLE).

STELTER: Absolutely. I'm sympathetic. But it sounds like we're all agreeing it was a missed opportunity. That there was an opportunity in front of her to talk more intimately from the heart, more personally, and let us inside Trump Tower, that, you know, tall building. We don't know what happens up in that penthouse. We don't know what the family is like. We could have found out last night.

AVLON: Right.

STELTER: Maybe we will tonight.

HUGHES: Maybe this is how they are.

STELTER: Maybe we will tomorrow.

AVLON: That's right.

STELTER: As we hear from more of the family.

COSTELLO: All right, I got to leave it there.

STELTER: (INAUDIBLE) last night.

COSTELLO: John Avlon, Margaret Hoover, Scottie Nell Hughes, Brian Stelter, thanks to all of you.

STELTER: Thanks.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, our Jamey Gangel (ph) talks to one of Trump's top backers over this controversy. What Chris Christie had to say, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:40:30] COSTELLO: Sources telling CNN Donald Trump is, quote, "furious," over the handling of Melania Trump's big RNC speech. It has several passages that echo a 2008 speech delivered by Michelle Obama. And now the campaign has identified top deputy for campaign manager Paul Manafort as the man who oversaw the speech. Listen to the similarities for yourself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY (August 25, 2016): Barack and I were raised with so many of the same values.

MELANIA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S WIFE (July 18, 2016): From my young age, my parents impressed on me the values --

OBAMA: You work hard for what you want in life.

TRUMP: That you work hard for what you want in life.

OBAMA: That your word is your bond, that you do what you say you're going to do.

TRUMP: That your word is your bond and you do what you say and keep your promise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: In the meantime, the New Jersey governor, Chris Christie, once considered a potential VP pick, says Melania Trump did not plagiarize during that speech at the convention last night. Let's bring in CNN special correspondent Jamie Gangel. She just wrapped up an interview with Chris Christie. What did he say?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. So, as always, he is very loyal to Donald Trump and, maybe no surprise, he does not think this is plagiarism. But we started by asking him about these striking similarities. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: Ninety-three percent of a speech is absolutely words that were different than Michelle Obama's speech eight years ago. And of the ones that were similar, these were not ground breaking thoughts, Jamie, that people were raised in this country to work hard, to go for what they want, to make sure their kids reach their dreams. And so I just don't see it. I mean I think it's unfortunately the kind of malady of the first night of a convention. You guys are -- you and the delegates, for an extent, are building up to the first night and people want something to talk about if we're talking about 7 percent of a speech that was really universally considered to be a good performance by Melania. I know her. There's no way that Melania Trump was plagiarizing Michelle Obama's speech.

GANGEL: There are phrases that are strikingly similar, let's just say.

CHRISTIE: Yes. But I think if you're -- listen, if you're looking at plagiarism, Jamie, and I remember this from back in school, you know, you're talking about much broader than what we saw last night of people who are copying and lifting from speeches. And I just don't -- one, I know her. I don't believe she would do that. And I don't believe that last night sounded like anything other than Melania Trump. I wasn't sitting there saying, wow, that sounds like Michelle Obama to me. That sounded that Melania Trump to me.

GANGEL: She had help with the speech, though, and you know people go to lots of different, you know, sources for things. Do you think by accident thoughts, phrases got left behind in putting it together?

CHRISTIE: Well, who knows, first off. But I'll tell you this, if it was by accident, then we're not talking about plagiarism. Plagiarism is an intentional act of stealing someone else's work and passing it off as your own. That's what plagiarism is. So if certain thoughts were passed off accidentally, then it's an accident. But I don't believe that's what happened. I think there are just certain common thoughts and phrases. If you go back in all first lady speeches or potential first lady speeches that you hear them say, and I think that's what that part was last night, the rest of the speech sounded very much to me like the Melania Trump I've gotten to know over the last 14 years. And she loves her husband. She loves our country. And I thought she put that across really well last night.

GANGEL: Paul Manafort did say this. He said it was ridiculous. That these are common words and values. He then went on to blame Hillary Clinton. He said, "this is once again an example of when a woman threatened Hillary Clinton, how she tries, seeks out to demean her and take her down. It's not going to work." Really, is this Hillary Clinton's fault?

CHRISTIE: I'll let Paul speak for himself.

GANGEL: OK.

There -- the reason I think we keep asking about this is, there is this sense that whether it's Donald Trump or the campaign, no one is ever willing to admit that they made a mistake. Isn't that a little silly?

CHRISTIE: Well, listen, first of all, I don't think that's the case. I think over time they've done a number of things to admit that the campaign needed to move in a different direction, whether it's you see Donald now giving many more speeches from Teleprompter than you saw early in the campaign. I think that's an admission that we wanted to have a more disciplined message and he wanted to have a more disciplined message. You've seen personnel changes over time. All of those things are tacit admissions of a need for a change.

[09:45:05] And so everybody does that a little bit differently. Donald certainly is not one of these mea culpa folks, right, pounding his chest and forgive me, forgive me. That's not his style. And the American people, I think, have had enough of that over the course of the last eight years and they want a strong, decisive president who's willing to stand by the decisions he makes and that's what we'll get in Donald.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GANGEL: Understatement of the year, Donald Trump is not one of these mea culpa guys.

Let me just clarify one thing. Plagiarism is plagiarism whether it is accidental or intentional. And it may only be a small percentage of lines, but when you look at them, I think the phrase "strikingly similar" is certainly fair to say.

COSTELLO: All right, Jamie Gangel, thanks so much. Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Hillary Clinton might not be at the convention, but she was there. How Republicans took on their top rival, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Amid possible turmoil inside the Trump campaign, Republicans are getting ready to kick off day two of the GOP National Convention. Today's theme, make America work again. Tiffany and Donald Trump Jr., as well as one of Trump's former rivals, Dr. Ben Carson, are among today's speakers. And while Republicans may not be united behind Trump, they do appear to be on the same page when it comes to Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI (R), FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Hillary Clinton's experience is the basis for her campaign. Hillary Clinton's experience is exactly the reason she should not be president of the United States.

LT. GEN. MICHAEL FLYNN, FORMER DIRECTOR, DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY (RET.): If I did a tenth, a tenth of what she did, I would be in jail today. So, crooked Hillary Clinton, leave this race now.

DARRYL GLENN (R), SENATE CANDIDATE FROM COLORADO: We all know she loves her pantsuits, but we should send her an e-mail and tell her that she deserves a bright orange jumpsuit.

PATRICIA SMITH, MOTHER OF BENGHAZI VICTIM: I blame Hillary Clinton personally for the death of my son.

Hillary for prison. She deserves to be in stripes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right, I want to bring in Congressman Ryan Zinke of Montana. He's a former commander at the Navy's elite combat unit SEAL Team 6, and he also spoke last night at the Republican Convention.

Welcome, Congressman.

REP. RYAN ZINKE (R-MT), FORMER NAVY SEAL COMMANDER: Great to be with you.

COSTELLO: You were the last speaker.

ZINKE: I was the last speaker. A long night, but a good night. A lot of animation. I think Giuliani, this is the first time I've seen him so passionate and animated. I thought Mrs. Trump did a great job.

COSTELLO: Do you want to comment on Mrs. Trump so we can get that out of the way?

ZINKE: Well, you know, I think that the criticism, which we did talk about, was -- was business. How her husband is a great father. How her husband's a great businessman. And certainly that wasn't lifted from the other speech. So --

[09:50:00] COSTELLO: Do you think that there was plagiarism involved?

ZINKE: You know, it's a tough job to go in front of nation -- when you're -- when you're criticized about what you wear, what shoes you have, what lipstick you wear, knowing that you're going to go into a world of criticism about everything you do, no, I thought -- I thought it was a great speech.

COSTELLO: Do you think someone should be fired over this?

ZINKE: You know, the staffing, no. But --

COSTELLO: You don't?

ZINKE: I think they need to be careful, you know, like anything else. But understanding, you know, how critical the eye is on everything.

COSTELLO: That is a true story.

So, let's go back to the major theme last night, besides Melania Trump's speech, which was very positive, I might add. It was a very positive speech and she was quite charming in her delivery, there's no doubt about that. But the major theme last night appeared to be fear, that America is a dark place. That President Obama is endangering us on purpose. That Clinton is a liar and she should be in jail. And while that certainly resonates with the Republicans in the audience, do you think that -- that attracts moderates who might lean right or other voters who are undecided?

ZINKE: You know, what I thought last night was interesting about who spoke, you know, a lot of it was blue collar America. These guys aren't professionals. You had Marcus Latrell (ph), you know, just blue color people. And I think there is cause for concern. Is it fixable? Absolutely. We still live in the best country that ever been, you know, in --

COSTELLO: But if you listen to all of these speeches last night, it appeared nothing was fixable, or at least fixable quickly because America is dangerous --

Oh, we're getting breaking news. Are we going to that now? Sorry, Congressman.

All right, Paul Manafort, who is, of course, Trump's top guy, he's addressing the Melania Trump controversy. Let's listen.

PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Immigration and the right way to do it. And it talks about her love of the country and how it developed and the love of her husband and how it developed and family, the family values. These are themes that are personal to her, but they're personal to a lot of people, depending on the stories of their lives. Obviously, Michelle Obama feels very -- very much similar sentiments towards her family. The fact that the speech itself is being focused on for, as somebody, I think, at CBS told me today, 50 words, and that includes ands and thes and things like that, is totally ignoring the facts of the speech itself. The speech was a poignant speech. It was well received by the American people. There is no -- we don't believe there's anything in that speech that doesn't reflect her thinking and we don't think that -- and she says it's, you know, we're comfortable that the words that she used are words that were personal to her. The fact that there are things like care and respect and compassion, you know, you know, those are not extraordinary words and certainly when you talk about family, they're normal words.

I would note that she did know that she was speaking before 40 million people yesterday. And that her speech would be noticed by a lot of people. And -- and to think that she would be doing anything that would be, you know, that would be unnoticed was -- you know, is absurd. She knew that people were going to be paying attention to her words. And the American people did focus on what her message was. You all are focusing on trying to distort that message in some respects.

But, you know, again, there's a political tint to this whole issue and, you know, it's certain we've noted that the Clinton camp was the first to get it out there in trying to say that there was something untoward about the speech that Melania Trump gave. It's just another example as far as we're concerned that when Hillary Clinton is threatened by a female, the first thing she does is try to destroy the person. And -- but it's politics. We recognize it. And we're just going to move on.

We're focusing on the message that Melania Trump gave last night. The American people are focusing on it. We're very pleased about it.

Any other questions on different topics, because I'm not going to keep saying the same thing.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE).

MANAFORT: I didn't hear what you said.

QUESTION: You shot down comments on your YouTube channel, on the live stream, after (INAUDIBLE) speech. Was that because of the illustration that he submitted (INAUDIBLE) --

MANAFORT: I don't -- I don't know anything about that issue. I'm sorry.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) --

MANAFORT: Any other --

QUESTION: No, I have no one else.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) but it was word by word. I listened to both of the speeches.

MANAFORT: Well, it wasn't word by word. There were over 1,400 words in that speech and they -- OK, any other topics because I don't want to keep going over the same issue.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) Trump will be nominated tonight (INAUDIBLE).

MANAFORT: Sure. Sure. Senator Jeff Sessions will put his name into nomination tonight. Senator Sessions has been a key adviser to Mr. Trump and a very -- become a very close personal friend and advisor. The seconding speeches will be given by Congressman Chris Collins, who was the first member of Congress --

COSTELLO: All right, we're going to break away here. Paul Manafort, who is Trump's top guy, saying plagiarism was not a factor in Melania Trump's speech.

With me now is Congressman Ryan Zinke.

So, you heard Paul Manafort. He blames Hillary Clinton for it. Really?

[09:55:05] ZINKE: You know, I don't blame anyone for it, but I thought the speech was good. You know, I looked at it. I didn't have two sheets before me. I thought it was from the heart. And she talked about my -- her husband being a business guy and a good father. So I just leave it at that. Politics, you know -- and this is the problem with America is that we have to be Americans first. And the fabric of America is so stretched, the divisions in our country between black and white and Republican and independents and Democrats. You know, how do we get here? I think we have to be American first, and this is where, you know, as a former military commander, I never asked who was -- political affiliation of the person next to me. I didn't care. It's how the America, the person. And I think we need to get back to that.

COSTELLO: So are you saying that Melania Trump is just being unfairly maligned because she's Donald Trump's wife or she's a Republican or we shouldn't bring these similarities up because they don't matter?

ZINKE: I think we live in such a political environment that even the speech by the presumptive presidential nominee's wife is so scrutinized. And maybe it's 50 words, maybe it's 100.

COSTELLO: It was three passages, whole passages.

ZINKE: In 1,400 words. You know, so should that be the top line of the day's news? I don't think so.

COSTELLO: So even if there was plagiarism, it shouldn't matter?

ZINKE: I think at the end of the day, I have to look at the context of it. She did a great job. It's tough. And 30 million people. Is she a professional actress? Is she in the news? No. So I'd cut her -- I'd cut her a break because I think she did a great job.

COSTELLO: I think, though, that the concern is someone in the Trump campaign should have protected her and they did not. And now she's bearing the brunt of this. Isn't that the problem?

ZINKE: Yes, and bearing the brunt. I'm sure they're going to go deeper with -- with Donald's sons and daughters.

COSTELLO: But should the campaign have been protected her? ZINKE: The campaign needs to do their job and make sure the vision and

outline -- what this campaign is about.

COSTELLO: If one of your speech writers did that to you, wouldn't you be angry?

ZINKE: Well, I write my own speeches. And -- because I -- I do better speaking from the heart. And this is -- I'm an optimist. You know, I think our country's a great place, but we do need to rise as Americans first. And last night it was a good night --

COSTELLO: I've got to go back to Paul Manafort because he's talking about it again.

ZINKE: Oh, Paul.

COSTELLO: Congressman, thank you -- thank you very much.

ZINKE: Always a pleasure.

COSTELLO: OK, back to Paul Manafort.

MANAFORT: Try to make people's lives better and making a difference in their lives. She communicated that beautifully last night. And nothing that some of the -- that were trying to destroy those words through political allegations can distract from the fact that her speech was one of the highlight, if not the highlight of the convention yesterday.

Thank you very much. We'll see you tomorrow.

COSTELLO: All right, I'm going to take a break. We'll be back with much more in the NEWSROOM after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)