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France Terror Attack. Presidential Candidates on Terror. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired July 15, 2016 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:30:00] CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): We've seen over the past several attacks, whether in France or elsewhere, that many of these people, whether it was the Kulibalis (ph) or the Kuachi (ph), whether it was the others involved in these deadly shootouts, were known but not known as jihad sympathizers or radicals. And that's what's causing this amount of sort of instances, if you like, amongst law enforcement because, yes, OK, they know them as petty criminals, but not as somebody who should be swept off the street and treated according to the emergency laws that France has enacted now. You know, they've been in place for - for eight months since the Friday - the Friday 13th Bataclan attack, and they're now being extended for another three months.

But in the words of one key senator, and that's (INAUDIBLE), who spoke to me today and she spoke also on CNN, what more can we do. Yes, we know these people. We are in a maximum state of emergency. We have deployed the maximum resources that we have. Nice itself, she told me, is one of the safest and most secure cities in towns in France. Mostly because their mayor and the president of the regional department there are very security minded (INAUDIBLE), enacted many, many, you know, measures such as surveillance cameras in this city, facial recognition technology, increased local police on the streets, and yet this still keeps happening. So that's, you know, the next step that the French authorities, I guess, have to decide. How do you keep your eye on people who you know to be petty criminals but, you know, who the past have shown, certainly in these attacks that I'm talking about, have gone on to commit heinous crimes.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Christine, stay with us. I want to also bring in CNN's Nic Robertson, who's outside the attacker's apartment in Nice.

Nic, what are you - what are you hearing from people in the - the area?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, we understand now the attacker's name, Mohamed Bouhlel, a 31-year-old French Tunisian national. Just a little while ago, the police pulled back a cordon along this street here. Right behind me was a vehicle that they were searching. They used explosive force, blew out the windows to gain entry to the vehicle and then spent several hours sifting through it.

Neighbors describe the man believed to be the attacker as a bit of a loner. They describe him walking up the street here to go to a cafe to have his coffee. Not really talking to anyone. Coming back here. He lived separately to his wife and three young children. They live not far away in Nice.

Where we're located here, Anderson, it's about 10 or 15 minutes' drive from the Promenade des Anglais where the attack took place. It's not a poor neighborhood. It's not particular affluent either. There's a lot of small stores and businesses. Vegetable stores. There's a big supermarket behind the apartments here. It looks and feels reasonably prosperous. We're just sort of on the outskirts, if you will, of Nice. The hills begin to rise up steeply from here.

The man who is now at the center of this investigation, whatever it was the police were searching for in the vehicle here, and whatever his relationship to that vehicle is, we still don't know. The police have now taken it away. But before they took it away, what we were able to see was police in forensic protective clothing, masks on their faces, literally painstakingly going through the vehicle. At one time, pulling out a stack of what appeared to be paper receipts, putting it in the brown - big brown envelopes, potentially evidence, that's what it would appear, and taking that away. But they were working in a very sort of relaxed atmosphere. Although they sort of blew out the windows of the vehicle to gain entry initially, most of their work here was quite relaxed so it didn't appear that they felt that there was any threat emanating from the vehicle, but they were just searching for it very, very thoroughly, Anderson.

COOPER: Christiane, this - the state of emergency, which as you said, France's President Hollande has announced it's going to be extended pending approval from the parliament for another three months, was supposed to have ended July 26th. What exactly does that allow French authorities to do? I mean, I know on subways they can approach - French police can essentially pull anybody aside, check their identity documents. How powerful an instrument is that in France?

AMANPOUR: Well, you know, it's powerful, but clearly, you know, not powerful enough to stop this particular kind of - I mean I want to say the word random or lone wolf. We don't really know right now. We don't have all the details. But, you know, again, these people who are not on the counterterrorism or the jihad watch list, not on people's radars in terms of (INAUDIBLE), even if they think they might be suspicious about them, they can't really do anything about it, except under these anti-terrorism laws and under these states of emergency, they are allowed - they are allowed to place under house arrest any person whose behavior is considered, quote, "a threat to security and public order," and they are allowed to search homes at any hour without involving the court.

[09:35:16] So they've given themselves some extra powers under this, but because of the nature of what's going on, and I have to tell you, even speaking to the leaders in France, whether it was, you know, in the immediate aftermath of the last two major attacks in the last 18 months, you know, them and as well police say, look, it is becoming almost impossible for us to keep up with the pace of radicalization or turning an ordinary criminal into a deadly jihadi because they blame the dark zone of the Internet and they say that, you know, in the past maybe we have - you know, we can trace people, see them act differently, keep an eye on certain people. But now it's done in the shadows, it's done in their home, it's done wherever they can get hold of a - the Internet and they - I mean literally it was said to me, can be turned in a matter of 20 minutes.

Now that may be some rhetorical flourish, but the speed with which the radicalization and the deadly turn towards acting on your jihadi instinct has simply out foxed the ability of not just the police, but also the community, the mosques and the others to react. Because, of course, when these things happen, we always got to the mosques and we ask people, well, why didn't you know? Why aren't you keeping an eye on your, you know, your congregant? Why aren't you - why aren't neighbors, why isn't the family more aware? And they say, look, it is just happening way too fast.

That coupled with the younger generation, the angry, young generation, they tell me, who are feeling disaffected, they do not want to listen to quote/unquote the old sensible guys of - in the mosque or elsewhere. They don't want to listen to quote/unquote their elders any more.

COOPER: Right.

AMANPOUR: And so this is - this is a serious issue that we're seeing played out over and over again.

And I remember, Anderson, when we were all in Paris after the Bataclan massacre, you know, I asked Secretary of State John Kerry, so, sir, is this the new normal? And he totally rejected that contention. No, it's not. No, it's not. We will not allow it to be.

But, of course, we've seen it turn up over and over again since Bataclan, and now in Nice.

COOPER: Yes. Yes. The third major attack in France. Christiane Amanpour, thank you. Nic Robertson, as well.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:41:54] COOPER: (INAUDIBLE) fear, defiance ripple across France. For the third time in 18 months, the nation is reeling from a terror attack. The weapon this time, a freight truck plowing through the crowd in the French Rivera town of Nice. Many children are among the 84 dead, and 50 other people have critical injuries. The driver, identified as a French-Tunisia, continued his rampage for an unbearable 1.3 miles before police shot him to death. There are reports the driver was shooting at people alongside his truck has he - as he drove down the path, trying to hit as many people as possible.

Let's go to CNN's Evan Perez in Washington on what the intelligence community in the U.S. is - and what sort of intel the community is getting this morning.

Evan. EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, you know this has become a familiar drill for U.S. investigators. Right now they're going through communications and other databases to learn what they can about this terrorist. So far the investigators know that he only has a minor criminal background. He wasn't on the radar as a possible extremist. And they believe that he rented this truck just in the days before the attack, which gives you a sense of how difficult it is to prevent an attack like this.

This morning, we know the security is being beefed up at prominent locations in New York. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo says that he's ordered more security at places like airports and mass transit and tunnels. And we know the Homeland Security Department says that they are also - I mean you're going to see some visible security, some not so visible, as they try to guard against some copycat attacks.

Now, President Obama already said that he's offered the assistance of U.S. investigators to the French government. And right now, U.S. law enforcement officials are reviewing their ongoing cases of suspected extremists here in this country. You know, they have to look through to see who has large access to large trucks through their work. Is there anybody under surveillance who might try to rent a vehicle like this. Obviously, this is not a new tactic, but an attack like this means that there's renewed emphasis on these factors, Anderson, as they try to make sure something like this doesn't happen here.

COOPER: Yes, Evan Perez. Evan, thanks very much.

Joining me now to try to get some context is Lorenzo Vidino, director of the George Washington Program on Extremism. Also Peter Bergan, CNN national security analyst and author of "United States of Jihad."

Peter, let me start with you. We heard now yet again this killer was essentially a petty criminal. Had done some petty crimes and weapons possessions charges. Was not on the radar of French intelligence or French police as being a jihadist or an extremist. We have seen this before, haven't we?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, I mean, what's interesting, of course, is he's 31, he's married, although divorced, he's got three kids. You know, this is not a young hot head. This is something who has a family, is an ordinary French citizen and, you know, unfortunately, we've also seen this in this country where again and again the people who carry out these terrorist attacks in the United States are, you know, they're average ages, you know, in their late 20s, and often they're married and often they are - lead seemingly relatively stable lives.

What happens is, you know, well, as we dig in more into this guy's background, we'll probably find that he had some personal disappointments in life. These grievances festered and then he attached himself to this ideology that allowed him to be, in a sense, the hero in his own story because usually this is what the motivation is, is to sort of make your mark in a spectacular way as a way of sort of dealing with your own deficiencies. It's obviously early and we still don't know much about this guy, but I think that is the pattern we've seen again and again, Anderson.

[09:45:33] COOPER: Lorenzo, do you agree with that, these essentially many of these people are kind of - I mean I hate to say it this way, but life's losers who are latching on to this ideology, also a religious ideology? It gives them sort of religious underpinnings to make themselves into something which otherwise their life hasn't turned out like planned?

LORENZO VIDINO, DIR., GEORGE WASHINGTON PROGRAM ON EXTREMISM: Yes, we see different dynamics, of course, with different individuals, but it's quite usual to see, especially individuals that for one reason or the other have problems in life. There was some kind of traumatic event. In this case maybe - and obviously we're speculating at this point, to be the - the divorce. In another case, it's losing a job, some kind of major disappointment in life.

And as is normal, people find solace in something. And it could be in many cases religion, but obviously in this case it's in an extreme verse of religion. It's actually more a political ideology than religion. There's this sort of sense of anger at society, anger at the world, and the availability, the accessibility of the extremist ISIS ideology. You have this ideology. It's so readily available in your mobiles. It's easy for certain people to just access it, make sense of their own disenfranchisement of their own problems and framing to these global issues of Islam against infidels and so on. It's unfortunately quite the normal dynamic.

COOPER: So, Peter, how - I mean, for law enforcement, for the intelligence community, what do you do about that? I mean if, you know, some petty criminal who wants to sort of try to bolster their credentials and make themselves into something with a, you know, a veneer of, you know, they want to become a martyr to a sick ideology, how do you prevent somebody from getting in a truck and doing this?

BERGEN: Unfortunately, sometimes you just can't. And we've seen that the kind of decision cycle from sort of this, you know, to actually the attack is very compressed. That seems to be the case here in Nice. That was certainly the case in Orlando where Omar Mateen, the perpetrator, you know, acquired automatic weapons readily - you know, very close to the time of the actual attack. So until we have a machine that can read men souls or sometimes women's souls, because women are sometimes involved in this, this is not, you know, something you can prevent. And, obviously, you know, in our lifetimes we will not find a machine that can read people's intentions.

There is, you know, you can certainly sort of say, well, is they - are they exploring jihadi material, but lots of people explore jihadi material who t hen don't necessarily carry out an attack. And some people are very careful, Anderson, about if they are planning an attack, you think about the San Bernardino couple, they were actually quite careful about their social media profile before the attack in order to sort of fly beneath the radar.

COOPER: Lorenzo, in previous generations would, you know, are some of these people would have been attracted to some other form of ideology, and this is just now the latest sort of iteration? VIDINO: Oh, yes, absolutely. I mean at this point in time, there's

nothing more anti-system, anti-society of an ISIS message. And, in fact, we do see, for example, I mean a lot of converts are attracted to it. It's not an uncommon dynamic to see people who convert to other - from other religions to Islam. But it's not really to Islam. It's to ISIS ideology. We've seen a few cases in the states of people who had no contact whatever with Islam and converted straight to his extremist ideology.

It's mostly because there are people who have personal issues. In some cases - I'm not sure about this case, of course - there's some mental issues there. And basically this is the ideology that today embodies and gives power to people who have a beef against society, a beef against the world.

COOPER: Lorenzo Vidino, I appreciate you being with us. Peter Bergen, as well.

Still to come, the U.S. presidential race once again impacted by a terror attack abroad. Details, ahead.

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[09:53:27] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOMINIQUE MOLINA, WITNESSED ATTACK (voice-over): I heard a lot of loud noises and people were screaming. And so to the west a big moving truck was driving on the promenade, just barreling over people and hitting - running people over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, for Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, the tragedy in Nice is just the latest challenge of their leadership that they're forced to respond to another terror attack. CNN politics reporter Sara Murray joins me now from Trump Tower.

Sara, good morning.

SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Anderson.

Well, Donald Trump actually delayed announcing his vice presidential pick, although CNN has confirmed it will be Mike Pence, but he's not making that announcement today. Instead, he has been focusing on the terror attack in Nice. He says attacks like this keep getting worse and he said that if he were president he would ask Congress to declare war against ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS: Go to Congress and ask for a declaration of war?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE (voice-over): I would. I would. This is war. If you look at it, this is war, coming from all different parts. And, frankly, it's war and we're dealing without - with people without uniforms.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: Now, Hillary Clinton took a different approach in how she's been responding to this. She says that the U.S. needs to work more closely with its allies. That the key here is better intelligence gathering. Take a listen to what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE (voice-over): It's a very different kind of war. And we could be easily misled. We've got to be smart about this, not, you know, not get pushed or pulled into taking action that doesn't have the positive effects it needs to have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:55:10] MURRAY: Now, this is really highlighting the difference that we're seeing between the two presidential candidates. Both of them want to seem like they are taking a muscular approach, especially at a time when the ripple effects of a terror attack in Nice can obviously be felt here in the United States. There's, you know, an intense sense of concern and caution heading into Cleveland. But while Donald Trump is calling for a declaration of war, Hillary Clinton is still saying we need to be cautious about the use of military force and that there are other ways that we can be strong in the face of terror without putting boots on the ground.

Anderson.

COOPER: Sara, is it clear when Donald Trump is going to make the announcement about his vice presidential pick?

MURRAY: They have not announced when they're going to reschedule the announcement of his vice presidential pick. Paul Manafort was on CNN this morning saying they still expect to do this before Cleveland. So we would expect to see it sometime during the weekend.

One wrinkle, though, Anderson, is, if Donald Trump decides to do it on Saturday, it's possible Ivana Trump and Jared Kushner won't even be there, though, because it is the Sabbath, of course, and they're both observing Jews.

COOPER: All right, Sara Murray. Sara, thanks very much.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM begins after a short break.

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