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CNN NEWSROOM

Can Sanders Still Win?; Is Clinton Trusted Enough To Get The General Majority?; Hana Ali Discusses Her Father And Upcoming Public Memorial For Him; Zika Leaving Its Tracks On Brazilian Infants. Aired 10:30-11:00a

Aired June 6, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:50]

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN HOST: I want to go back to ask you something about the superdelegates, right? Because Bernie Sanders would have to convince them to change their vote. And all along Bernie Sanders has been saying the system was rigged. And he specifically points to the superdelegates. Yet now he's going to use the rigged system to possibly ...

SYMONE SANDERS, NATIONAL PRESS SECRETARY, BERNIE SANDERS: Well ...

COSTELLO: ... beat Hillary Clinton ...

SANDERS: ... Well yes, Cheryl (ph) [sic] ...

COSTELLO: ... in the Primary?

SANDERS: So Senator Sanders has said it is a peculiar thing and it just doesn't make any sense to him that well over 400 superdelegates pledged their support to Secretary Clinton well before there was even a real nominating contest. So yes, Senator Sanders is going to make the case to the superdelegates. Because I think what's most important here for the Democrats is that we keep the White House come November.

And the strongest candidate against Donald Trump, according to all general election match-up polls, is Senator Sanders. So that's the case he's going to go and make to the superdelegates ...

COSTELLO: But, but Symone ...

SANDERS: ... He's well within his rights to make those cases, and I think that it is ...

COSTELLO: He is, but Symone ...

SANDERS: ... it is disingenuous for folks to suggest that Senator Sanders should get out of this race. Look, we're all in the interest of doing ...

COSTELLO: No one's suggesting that. No one's suggesting that, but he has a very difficult path to victory, if in -- if not impossible. Hillary Clinton has won more votes and more states than Bernie Sanders. And she has more delegate and superdelegate supports. I think what's -- what could be dangerous here in some Democrat's minds, is that Bernie Sanders has very passionate young supporters. Some of them are voting for the very first time. And by telling them that Bernie Sanders has a real possibility -- doesn't he run the risk of disenfranchising them for good?

SANDERS: No not at all Carol. Look these voters, these new young voters that we brought into the Democratic Primary process are folks that care really about the issues. And that's what this is about. These are people that stood up and pledged their support to the political revolution because they care about climate change, they care about criminal justice reform. They really care about addressing economic inequality in this country. Addressing racial injustices in this country. They care about you know, $15.00 minimum wage and I think those are the issues ...

COSTELLO: Oh absolutely, absolutely they're very passionate and they're very ...

SANDERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: ... and they're very issue-oriented. I'm just saying that if your candidate is telling you that he has a real possibility to win, which he really doesn't, isn't that selling your supporters kind of a bill of goods?

SANDERS: No Carol not at all. Because we've noted -- and Senator Sanders has said, look, the path to the nomination is narrow but there is still a path. And Senator Sanders is going to do, come the Democratic convention and well after, he's going to do everything he can if he is not the nominee, to keep Donald Trump from winning the White House.

You know I think our supporters, again, they care about the issues. They want to be engaged and they want to be involved. And they don't want to see someone like Donald Trump as President, come next year. So this isn't, this isn't ...

COSTELLO: OK so let's talk about that. Let's talk about Donald Trump. Because Senator Sanders says he does want to defeat Donald Trump. It's his number one priority, right? Yet some Democrats charge he continues to give Trump ammunition to use against Clinton.

For example, recently he called Clinton a warmongerer. And said donations to the Clinton Global Initiative could be a conflict of interest. Why is he attacking Clinton like that if his number one priority is for Donald Trump to lose the election?

SANDERS: So no, I don't think Senator Sanders ever used the actual term warmongerer. This Democratic nominating process is not over and this nominating process is all about sparring on the issues. And so Senator Sanders has distinct differences between himself and Secretary Clinton. And that's what he's continuing to talk about on the campaign trail. He's not attacking Secretary Clinton, he's differentiating himself on the issues. And he's well within his rights to do that. Look, any day Senator Sanders and Secretary Clinton are better picks

for President than Donald Trump. Donald Trump's policies are divisive, they're bad for America, and they're not what Americans need. And I think everybody knows that. So again, we're going to continue in this nominating contest. There's California, New Jersey, and a whole host of other states tomorrow. There's Washington, D.C. on June 14th. And then Senator Sanders is still set on going to the convention and taking his fight right there to the floor, and still lobbying those superdelegates.

And that's where he is. Now if that changes, I'm sure -- I'll be sure to let you know, Carol. But for right now, that's where we are.

COSTELLO: Symone Sanders, thanks so much. Coming up next, Clinton's campaign spokesperson responds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:38:40]

COSTELLO: There is still a path. Bernie Sanders' spokeswoman says it's narrow but it's there. And his camp is taking it all the way to the convention floor. That's what Symone Sanders told me just before the break. With me now is Brian Fallon, Hillary Clinton's campaign spokesman. Welcome Brian, thanks for being here. So Hillary Clinton says she will reach out and unify the party after Tuesday. It doesn't sound like Bernie Sanders is interested in that.

BRIAN FALLON, PRESS SECRETARY, HILLARY FOR AMERICA: Well Tuesday I think, has the potential to be a very historic moment for this country. We are confident that we are going to reach the threshold of achieving a clear majority of the pledged delegates. And nominate the first female nominee in the history of this country. And at that point it will be hard for Senator Sanders to argue any longer that there's any path. Because by every metric Hillary Clinton will have a decisive advantage.

COSTELLO: Well you heard what Symone Sanders said, right? She said ...

FALLON: But I think he ...

COSTELLO: ... that they'll take it all the way to the convention floor. And he'll fight to change the minds of the superdelegates.

FALLON: I think he did a very compelling presentation of the facts there in terms of the popular vote, she has a lead of 3 million votes. In terms of the pledged delegates she'll have a clear majority on Tuesday night. Even if you take out the superdelegates, if you exclude them entirely, Hillary Clinton would have won by virtue of having a clear majority of the pledged delegates on Tuesday night. Or, differently, if you want to say keep the superdelegates but allot them based on the states that Senator Sanders or Secretary Clinton won, Hillary Clinton would still win by that measure, too. So there's really no rationale at this point where Senator Sanders could argue that this process' origin (ph) ... COSTELLO: There may be a rationale. What if Bernie Sanders wins

California, it will be embarrassing for Mrs. Clinton, right? And he still could make a lot of noise. And she needs his supporters. And I'd like you to listen to something he said about his supporters to Jake Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The idea that I can snap my fingers and have millions of supporters kind of march in line, that is not what our effort is about. I think if I am not the nominee, and we're going to fight to become the nominee, it is Secretary Clinton's job to explain to those people why she should be -- why she should get their support. And that means she's going to have to address their needs. Secretary Clinton is going to have to make the convincing argument to them. That how could it be that she's getting huge amounts of money from Wall Street and other powerful special interests. And she is going to stand up and fight for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So again, it doesn't sound like Bernie Sanders is ready to help Hillary Clinton win over his supporters. And why shouldn't she have to reach out to them and convince them that she's their candidate?

FALLON: Well two points, Carol. Number one, we're still in the intense fight here in California and New Jersey. And so I'm not sure that you can necessarily take something that Senator Sanders is saying now when he's fully contesting these states, versus in a week or so from now when the contests are concluded.

If the -- if you look back, Tuesday actually presents some symmetry. Because it will be the 8-year anniversary of when Hillary Clinton gave her remarks in 2008 at the National Building Museum in D.C., dropped out of the race, noted that she put 18 million cracks in that glass ceiling but came up short. And then right on the heels of that she went to Unity, New Hampshire and campaigned for Barack Obama.

I think in terms of unifying the party it's going to take two to tango. Hillary Clinton's going to do her part, but we expect Senator Sanders to do his. At the bare minimum, I think what he can do -- even if he does want to continue to influence the platform, which is his right -- I think at the bare minimum what he can do is not try to delegitimize the process or call into question the fact that Hillary Clinton is truly the nominee after Tuesday.

COSTELLO: So you want him to come out and say what?

[10:42:15]

FALLON: Well I think that he is going to continue to seek to influence the platform heading into the convention. And we signaled that we want to have an open process there. We want to bring in the Sanders supporters into the fold in terms of the development of the Party platform. But I do think that the, some of the rhetoric and some of the attacks that you've seen in the last couple weeks, including those which you asked Symone about, about the Clinton Foundation, only play into the hands of Donald Trump.

COSTELLO: Something else that seems to still be playing into the hands of Donald Trump is this email controversy. Because it goes on and on. A quinnipiac poll taken in late May showed 39 percent trust Clinton, 44 percent think Trump is the more honest and trustworthy candidate. And some analysts say it's all because of this email controversy. This is how she addressed that topic on ABC's program, "Sunday Morning with George Stephanopoulos." Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, HOST, ABC: You don't accept the conclusions of the report because they say you were unmindful of the rules.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everybody in the department knew that I was emailing from a personal address. Hundreds of people knew it. People around the government knew it. And you know, that was what the practice had been and that's what I did as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: And, well you know, she's talking about the Inspector General's report that said Hillary Clinton broke the rules by using that private email server. And that was her response. It's sort of like, well everybody knew about it, but nobody did anything about it. Does that really make her appear more trustworthy?

FALLON: Well I think it was a different part of the -- of that answer where she talked about the fact that she regrets this and admits that it was a mistake. And look, the bottom line is that this issue has been out there in the public litigative (ph) for well over a year. The facts of this are known. Obviously there's a Justice Department review that we hope will be concluded soon.

But I think at this point though, voters have factored it in. And amidst all the discussion on this issue, Hillary Clinton has only managed to lead all other contenders, not just Bernie Sanders, but Donald Trump, too. In terms of the number of raw votes she's earned. She's on her way to becoming the first female nominee of a major Party in American history. So I think that the public has said, or rendered a judgment that they want to keep the focus on the issues that matter most.

COSTELLO: Even with these numbers from quinnipiac, you feel that way?

FALLON: Look, this is going to be a contrast heading into the general election between her and Donald Trump. I'm not sure -- familiar with the details of that one poll that you cited. But I think in general, we're seeing that voters are going to decide that Hillary Clinton is the person they can trust to stand in their corner, fight for the issues that they care about.

COSTELLO: Brian Fallon, thanks for stopping by. FALLON: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the Newsroom. Muhammad Ali's daughter, Hana talks to us about her father's legacy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:48:35]

COSTELLO: The world bids farewell this Friday, to boxing great, Muhammad Ali. Fans will line the streets of his hometown, Louisville, Kentucky, as a motorcade carries the late champ to a public memorial service, and event that has been planned for years. With me now on the phone is Muhammad Ali's daughter, Hana Ali. Welcome Hana and thanks for being with me this morning.

HANA ALI, DAUGHTER OF MUHAMMAD ALI: Thank you for having me, good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Tell us what the ceremony in Louisville will be like.

ALI: Well you know, we're all actually very excited. And in a sense, you know, we're just learning about these plans ourselves. And my father, I know, I mean, his spirit will be there. And he wouldn't -- couldn't be more, I think happy and honored, and it's exactly how he would want to go and be remembered. And to have people there, because he's lived such an open life. He's been such an open book.

And it's part of why I'm wanting to share with the world, I know how much people love him and want to know what his last moments were like. And how he made the transition. They love him the way we love him, you know? And my step-mother Lonnie was just telling me recently that, even she had forgotten just the impact that he had on people. She had received a phone call yesterday from President Obama, and all these heads of state from around the world. And they were telling her that the -- their whole countries were in mourning.

And you know, my father knew that people loved him and it's part of why he, I think, wanted to share this with the world in his hometown. He loved Louisville. He didn't live there in the last years of his life. He had, he had the home there, but he's always loved his hometown. And where he came from, and yes.

COSTELLO: Your father had been hospitalized many times. And he always recovered. And you thought that this time he would recover, too. Now, can you take us into the room when you realized that you would have to say goodbye?

ALI: Yes, you're right. Like you said, my father was always in and out of the hospital and that was mainly because my step-mother didn't take any chances. You know, if his blood pressure dropped, if -- any little, any little hint that something might be wrong, they didn't take chances, they took him right there.

And they did the best they could to keep it private, but you know, like I said, my father -- he actually liked the sensational. He liked that he was shaking up the world, he was a inkeeper (ph). And people that, people were talking about him and he always wanted to know if he was on the front page, and how long they were talking. And I know he would just love this. So we would -- I went down the last time he was in the hospital, it was last year.

And I think it was a couple weeks actually, so my husband and I just sort of moved into a hotel and were there for about six weeks. And he was only in the hospital for two. But it was evident, it was obvious he was coming home. You never know how things are going to turn, but he was -- you know, he was alert and awake a lot more. And I think the body, when it's prepared to leave the earth, just starts to sleep more. And my father -- I mean I was calling him every other day and he was always asleep. And he was resting.

So Layla is the one who actually said it to me in a way where it sunk in. Because I think she thought I was a little too hopeful like, maybe he would just defy the odds again. And she just sort of had to say, "Hana, daddy is not better and he is not getting better this time." And that's sort of when it hit. And when I got to the hospital on that second day we were there, having gone home the night before thinking, you know, the doctors were telling us he's actually improving, he's breathing on his own, this is amazing.

But it was still grim being that so many organs had failed and -- but he was actually doing better. In the sense that his stats were better, you know, however doctors measure it, they were telling me that he was doing better. So I was thinking, OK, he's getting better. And like I said, Layla called me on the phone and on -- when I was actually in route to the hospital from the hotel. And just said, just, "be prepared when you get here. Because he's not going to get better." So.

COSTELLO: So it's just so it -- you're right. He's missed by so many people. And he meant so many things to so many people. Hana thank you for joining me this morning. I do appreciate it.

ALI: Thank you so much, and thank you everyone for all your love and support.

COSTELLO: Thank you.

[10:53:05]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:56:35]

COSTELLO: It is the site of the next Olympic games, but many are calling Brazil "Zika ground zero." The mosquito-borne virus can affect everyone, but it's most dangerous for pregnant women because of the potential for birth defects. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh looked at the devastating effects of Zika.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) NICK PATON WALSH (voice-over): Born into a struggle that grows as they age. This clinic is in Recife where the disease of Zika has been cruelest in Brazil. Heaving with what happens when babies with microcephaly grow, and so do their problems. Unable to tell us the pains, agonies they may or may not be feeling. Or what we can do to help.

VERONICA SANTOS, MOTHER OF BABY WITH MICROCEPHALY (via translator): It was when he was born and we faced the other people in the hospital. Their expressions, seeing and accepting the difference. For me, that was the hardest phase.

WALSH: As the world works out exactly how quickly Zika could even spread, here at ground zero there's a whole different set of problems. And it's working out really, as these babies grow older, quite what the disease means for their development. Arturo (ph) cannot eat. Doctors say his brain can't switch between swallowing and breathing properly. So he's fed by a drip and stunted in growth. The size of a three-month old when he is now eight months.

They're testing his hearing, seeing if he turns his head to look. A little to the right, to the left, nothing. This is how it goes here. Every minute discoveries that alter a child's future. Victoria was abandoned by her natural mother at birth, adopted by Kely a month ago.

KELY OLIVEIRA, ADOPTIVE MOTHER OF BABY WITH MICROCEPHALY (via translator): When we saw her we fell in love with her. I didn't want to know what she had, that didn't matter. She is my daughter.

WALSH (voice-over): And today they change her life. She is having her eyes stimulated, being fitted for glasses. To find out if she can see at all. It's hard to tell what she sees, if the bright lights became real shapes. With Lohandra (ph), it's a little more palpable. Her first sights.

But still, her arms stiffen straight, her underdeveloped brain telling them to do so. The talk here of prejudice, of days spent ferrying children between specialist doctors. Of being fired from work because of that. Or the lack of state money to pull them through. This is the wold that Zika brings, and here and horribly (ph). It is only the beginning.

WALSH: Now Carol, there's that sense of troubling discovery -- learning day by day what exactly microcephaly will do to a child's development. Coupled with the sense of scientists working out how fast this will really spread. WHO just doubling the amount of time they're recommending people who may have been exposed to Zika to not have unprotected sex. And that's all causing people to be concerned ahead of these Olympic games, including athletes. Carol?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Nick Paton Walsh, thanks. Thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello. AT THIS HOUR with Berman and Bolduan starts now.

[11:00:15]