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CNN NEWSROOM

Mourning the Loss of A Legend; Muhammad Ali Dead at 74 After Long Battle with Parkinson's Disease; Ali Friend: He Was Loved Around The World; Louisville Honors Hometown Hero Muhammad Ali. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired June 4, 2016 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[11:00:20] FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome, it is 11:00 on the east coast. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The NEWSROOM begins right now.

Thank you so much for joining us because the world is indeed mourning the loss of a legend. Muhammad Ali has died at the age of 74 after a long battle with Parkinson's disease. He was hospitalized on Thursday with a respiratory issue and then past away last night.

Moments ago in his hometown of Louisville, Kentucky, a flag was lowered in honored of the man simply known as the "Greatest."

The Mayor honoring the hometown hero achievement, both as a fighter and humanitarian.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR GREG FISCHER, LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY: Muhammad Ali lived a life so big and bold. It's hard to believe that any one man could do everything he did, could do all the things he became in the course of just one lifetime.

This man, this champion, this Louisvillian ended his 74 years yesterday as a United Nations messenger of peace, a humanitarian and champion athlete who earned amnesty international's lifetime achievement award, the presidential medal of freedom, "Sports Illustrated " sportsman of the century. He was co-founder with his beloved wife, Lonnie, of the Muhammad Ali center, which promotes respect, hope and understanding here in his hometown of Louisville and around the world.

He took the name Muhammad Ali in 1964 and advocated for understanding and peace among people of different face. He was, of course, three- time heavyweight champion of the world, a young, handsome fighter with swagger like the world had never seen. Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr., born January 17, 1942 to Cassius Sr. and Odessa Grady Clay.

Imagine that day, that little boy, eyes wide open looking around the room at the old Louisville General Hospital, not knowing the life that awaited him, the life he would make, the world he would shake up and the people he would inspire. And like you, I am absolutely one of those people. Muhammad Ali belongs to the world, but he only has one hometown.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: President Obama also issuing the statement this morning saying, "Muhammad Ali shook up the world. And the world is better for it. We are all better for it." The champ's life and career captured in iconic photographs, they're just simply extraordinary. This one, the one he predicted it would take five rounds to knock out British boxer Henry Cooper in 1963.

A prediction that later turned out to be true when the fight was stopped in the fifth round also, in 1963 the champ captured in the ring with a 6-year-old boy who is taking boxing lessons after getting bullied. And this one, Ali with his daughters, Laila and Hana in London in December 1978, some of the favorites.

Ali's family taking to Twitter to express their feelings, his daughter Hana tweeting "Our father was a humble mountain and now he has gone home to God. God bless you, daddy. You are the love of my life".

And this one, from Rasheda Ali "The greatest man that ever lived, daddy, my best friend and hero, you are no longer suffering and now in a better place". Extraordinary comments, from his loved ones his family, so many of us all admiring Muhammad Ali on this day and really forever.

For more on the man and the legend that was Muhammad Ali inside the ring and outside the ring. I'm joined by CNN Political Commentator Marc Lamont Hill and Tim Shanahan, a close friend of Muhammad Ali and author of the book "Running with the Champ" who was on the phone with us.

So Mr. Shanahan, let me go to you first as close friend and then, you know, biographer for Muhammad Ali, what are your thoughts on this day on the passing of the greatest of all time?

VOICE OF TIM SHANAHAN, FRIEND OF MUHAMMAD ALI: Well, when I think of Muhammad Ali, I think of love. I know that sounds strange coming from the heavyweight champion of the world, but Muhammad was all about love.

[11:05:08] And one way I can tell you that is because when he -- and whenever he promoted a fight, he had to work himself up into a situation where he disliked the opponent or he was angry with the opponent and he was causing the opponent to react to his barbs, and that built his energy up so when he got in the ring, he would be able to have this anger built up inside of him.

So if he didn't have that, because of his love for all people, he would have been mild when it came to boxing. But one thing that he loved -- he had an inscription that he wrote to people all the time. He said "Service to others is the rent that we pay on earth for our room in heaven." and he believed that and lived that every day. And as far as what he thought about every day, he lost sleep about starving children. He would wake up in the middle of the night and he said he believed in miracles and he said that one day there would be a miracle and every child in the world would not go to bed hungry.

And he always thought about that, helping other people. So as far as what I think today, I think that he is in heaven because another thing he did is he believed that God had a tabulation on each person and each person had a side that said what the good deeds were in his life, and the other side was the bad deeds that he performed in life. And he said "I want to make sure that when I die, I have more good deeds than bad deeds when I meet God.

WHITFIELD: Oh my goodness.

SHANAHAN: So I think he's in God's mansion right now.

WHITFIELD: Wow, how profound. And those good deeds are exactly what everyone is assessing, you know, when they look at the magnitude of his life, that of Muhammad Ali, but, you know, you talked about so many interesting things there. And I think one of the things that also sounds like a -- I guess a real contrast of what Muhammad Ali represents that you touched on when you talked about how he loved people so much, yet at the same time he would go into the ring with a feeling of anger or the anger would help fuel his fight.

So help explain how he was able to balance that. Even when I looked at the 1974, you know, Zaire fight, the Rumble in the Jungle with George Foreman. And if I was looking at that, you know, he was taking a pummeling, you know, kind of midstream before things turned around, around round six but then by the end when George Foreman went to the ground, there was a look on Muhammad Ali's face.

You know, as if that was like the punctuation. Explain that spirit of Muhammad Ali how there was this measure of kindness but then there was this fierce measure that made him the champ.

SHANAHAN: I'll give you a side story; George Foreman, I'll just tell you what he says. Any time anybody asks him, George Foreman said, "there's nobody that loves Muhammad Ali more than George Foreman, except Jesus Christ." And at that point where he was going down, Muhammad had a chance to hit him one more good shot, as he twirled around and going to the canvas. George Foreman will always remember that. He said, he could have hit me one more time and put me to sleep but he didn't; so that always stuck out in his mind.

Another comment was after the sixth round, Muhammad was taunting George; George, I thought you were so bad. People were telling me you were so bad, that you were going to kill me in the ring. Those punches don't hurt. Is that all you got? And George just before Foreman went to the corner he goes, "yup, that's about it."

WHITFIELD: Well, Tim, I've got my buddy, and your buddy, Heavyweight Champ, George Foreman on the line with us right now. So, George --

SHANAHAN: No kidding. WHITFIELD, off camera: Yes; and, George, as you listen to Tim, you describe your sentiment and your love of Muhammad Ali. At the same time, you all had that kind of joking kind of relationship about how he pummeled you in that "Rumble in the Jungle" in Zaire. Pick up from that thought that you just heard from Tim and your sentiment about Muhammad Ali on this day.

GEORGE FOREMAN, BOXER & FRIEND, MUHAMMAD ALI, via telephone: Well, differently from Tim, remember, I got hit and knocked out so I can hardly remember anything.

[Laughter]

FOREMAN: I know I went to Africa. I had beaten Joe Frazier pretty easily. Ken Norton, all the people who had beaten Muhammad Ali, so I thought this would be the easiest $5 million I was going to pick up. Got into the ring Muhammad; beat him up for the first three round. He hit me a few times, but then, after a while, I just knew I was going to knock him out.

I hit him hard in the third round and he looked at me as if to say I'm not going to take this! Then he said no way he's going to slug it out with me and I whaled on him. Then the bell rang and he looked at me as if to say I made it! And I thought oh, my god, he made it, and I knew I was in trouble then and the water had just gotten deep.

And then around the sixth, seventh round, as he said, he started whispering "is that all you got, George?" and believe me, that's scary because that was all I had.

WHITFIELD: Wow! Go ahead.

FOREMAN: He hit me with a quick one-two, knocked me down to the canvas and my whole life changed. I was devastated. Little did I know I would make the best friend I ever had in my life. That fight made it that way.

WHITFIELD: How did that happen? Help us understand how you would go for that moment -- go from that moment of being on the ground and he would taunt you with "that's all you got?" and then he would become your best friend?

FOREMAN: Yes; you know, there's something about Muhammad I saw, and everybody should know this, I was trying to court a girl and I invited her to have dinner with me. I told her I was going to be a boxer. She said, really? I saw Muhammad Ali on the street and he was just saying, "I'm beautiful, look at me." You know what, I never dated that girl again I got so upset. But then I met him myself and he was walking down the street in New York City with just a pair of slacks on and I said, man, he is beautiful.

So, after you get out of the ring with him, and look at him, everybody falls in love with him. You can't help it. He was one loveable, good looking, great guy. You wanted to be around him. I was excited to meet him and happy to be his friend. WHITFIELD: So that was the start of your relationship after Zaire, but what about before that? When, you know, the expectations were built that it was going to be George Foreman against Muhammad Ali in the ring, what did you think about Muhammad Ali the boxer, the man, before you got in the ring with him?

FOREMAN: Didn't think too much of him as a man, but he was one celebrity I'd seen on television, the first guy on the news saying he was the greatest. I'm beautiful. I'd never seen anything like that. That was a phenomenon and the guy put on a show everywhere, but I'd beaten the guys who had given him trouble. I was certain I was going to knock him out, certain. I didn't have any respect for him as a boxer, at all; but let me tell you, after that Zaire episode, too much respect.

WHITFIELD: And then what did you - what were your impressions of him as that young man who said I will not go to war, to Vietnam; I will not go to kill people, who had to put his entire boxing career on hold? He was forced to do that for at least three years, until the U.S. Supreme Court stepped in and allowed him to box again. What were your impressions of this young man and the courage that it took for him to do that, but at the time people weren't using the word courageous?

FOREMAN: You know, it's surprising. I remember that the day he resisted the draft and everybody turned on him. I mean literally everyone. I hadn't even gone into boxing yet. Everyone, no one wanted to be in his presence. No one wanted to be his friend and he was dropped and he still made himself available. He traveled around the country. He loved to be in the media, but nobody wanted to even put him on television.

I was once doing an interview in Miami, Florida. He came into the gym and they turned the cameras off because they were interviewing me for my fight. They turned the cameras off until he was out of the way. That's what happened to Muhammad Ali. Of course, had had a second chance, to come back, and, boy, the greatest show in the world. He was the greatest show.

WHITFIELD: Hands down. Mr. George Foreman, I'm going to ask you to stick around, please. We have to take a short commercial break. Tim Shanahan, biographer of Muhammad Ali, please stick around. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break, as we remember the greatest of all time, Muhammad Ali.

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WHITFIELD: Welcome back; we continue to remember and honor the life and career of boxing legend Muhammad Ali. Let's continue our conversation with Heavyweight Champ George Foreman; also bringing back Tim Shanahan, biographer of "Running with The Champ"; and Marc Lamont Hill, a Political Analyst but also has a bit of insight on the history of Muhammad Ali and his legacy. All right, good that all of you could be back with me.

So, Mr. Foreman, let's pick up where you left off. You were talking about how you didn't really think that much of Muhammad Ali before you actually went into the ring with him, but then you became a great friend. What impressed you most about how he was able to be a showman but then he was able to deliver once he got in the ring, because he talked a lot of smack that intimidated and angered a lot but he delivered?

FOREMAN: It's so strange because there are so many people about Muhammad Ali said "I was angry with him." You know, we never were in a press conference together. We never had any face-to-face confrontation. It was -- when I met him in the ring, that was as close as we had gotten, prior to the boxing match that is. That's all we going for us that night in the ring. There was no putting me down. I heard that on the news he called me the Frankenstein monster but he was only saying that because it was true. I was a monster and I was going to be after him. But we never had any incident. We never even had a sit down argument or anything. The guy was a lovely guy to me. Just in the ring I was trying to knock out everybody.

SHANAHAN: I want to interject something.

WHITFIELD: Yes, Tim, go ahead.

SHANAHAN: Muhammad Ali had - Muhammad Ali had, in my opinion, three very good, close friends, for 40 years. Number one was George Foreman; number two, Kris Kristofferson; and then Billy Crystal. I asked Muhammad once, why do you love George Foreman so much? He said because we both love god and we know He's our goal. That's how he explained it.

WHITFIELD: Oh, that's so nice. So, Mr. Foreman, when was the last time you felt like you had, you know, really had a moment to connect with Mr. Ali?

FOREMAN: It was this past - last year. "Sports Illustrated" named their legacy award after Muhammad Ali, and I went into Louisville to the Muhammad Ali Center and we were together. And I got up and told a few stories and I'm certain he understood and remembered him. He was so well taken care of by his caretakers. He looked beautiful then and I just sit next to him and put myself on him and whispered in his ear things. We were close. He got it.

WHITFIELD: And what are your thoughts for the family this week? We heard from the mayor who said that it is likely that Muhammad Ali will be laid to rest this upcoming week. What are your thoughts, Mr. Foreman?

FOREMAN: Well, there are so many people -- the realization that there were so many people who truly loved Muhammad Ali. A lot of times people say he's got a lot of hangers on, in boxing and rousting, but this man truly was loved. I know for a fact he was loved, and I'm happy that there will be something there for people to come in and feel like they were a part of his life and of course be at the service and be around Louisville, Kentucky where it all started. What a man.

WHITFIELD: Incredible. Well, Mr. George Foreman, thank you so for sharing your stories with us; your memories. You initially shared your thoughts and impressions about the "Rumble in the Jungle" with me. I think it was about 20 years ago when you surprised me by sharing your experiences there.

[Laughter]

FOREMAN: You know, it's strange that Muhammad Ali and I both have something in common, we had Mal Whitfield as well.

WHITFIELD: Thank you so much; and, yes, through the connection of all of you very great people, all of our lives were enhanced. We're all inspired by all of you. Thank you so much. George Foreman, we appreciate it.

SHANAHAN: George Foreman is the second greatest.

WHITFIELD: Yes, Tim, go ahead.

SHANAHAN: No, I'm just saying George Foreman is the second greatest. When Muhammad Ali, when he was asked what his legacy would be, he said his children. And all of his children were there at his bedside, Maryum, Hana, Laila, Rasheda, Jamillah, Khaliah, Miya. They were all there at his bedside, and that was good news.

WHITFIELD: Wow, well really incredible. Well, I know, George Foreman, you remind me of just how close my dad, Mal Whitfield and Muhammad Ali were. They're going to see each other in heaven this week, as we lay my dad to rest this week; and now the greatest of all time also to be laid to rest this week.

Tim Shanahan, George Foreman. Marc Lamont Hill, we're going to catch up with you after a short break, as well. My thanks to all of you, appreciate it. We'll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Undoubtedly (ph) when you treat people nice and be humble and be regular, people love you better God bless's you, it's nice to be humble and because we're not going to be here long. A little thing a little prestige and trying to use it to help others to better mankind, to make other people happy like a world champion, walking down the streets with kids, a world champion just walk in the pool room. I mean that means a lot.

[11:23:54] So these are the thing I do, just get in my car sometime and just going to ride and get out and just walk and just that's the dream of people.

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WHITFIELD: Muhammad Ali passed away over night after checking into an Arizona hospital suffering from respiratory difficulties. The 74-year- old American icon have been battling Parkinson's disease for more than 30 years.

CNN correspondent Dan Simon spent the entire night stationed outside the hospital in Scottsdale, Arizona where Ali's family and friends gathered. Dan.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Fred. Well, details are still a bit thin in terms of Muhammad Ali's final moments, but by all accounts this was unexpected, we first got word that this was going to be a brief hospital stay. Muhammad Ali had been in this situation before so, everyone thought at least people who are close to him thought he would pull out of it.

I had a chance to speak to a close friend of his named John Ramsey, who is a television and radio personality in Louisville, Kentucky, he said, he got a call from Muhammad Ali's wife yesterday saying things we're not looking good and that he should probably come to Phoenix, Arizona and he described the scene up on the second floor of the hospital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN RAMSEY, FRIEND OF MUHAMMAD ALI: It really was all about the family. And, you know, my role was very minor. I therefore support, you know, the kids were all together and it was their time with their father, so they were in the room. There was a small little lounge area that I was with, with a few other close friends and the kids would come in and out and visit with their father as they should. And, you know, it was a lot of tears, hugs, laughter, a lot of memories and you know, fortunately the kids, the good thing is they've got the spirituality of their father so they took comfort there.

SIMON: And you travel the world with them, I mean you went a lot of different countries, I mean what was it like to be around him?

[11:30:00] RAMSEY: You know, he is truly a world champion and you saw that. He is beloved all around the world. I've been to Australia with him, England, Ireland, Canada, multiple cities, of course, around the country, and you just see the love that's universal. It transcends religion. It transcends countries, Muhammad is just really so beloved and deservedly so.

SIMON: And we know a lot about his because he was such a public figure obviously, but what's something that maybe most people don't know about him?

RAMSEY: You know, I just say that, you know, I think sometimes people see Muhammad and they say, you know, is he still the Ali of old? Is he still charming and quick witted? Yes, yes and yes. He still had hi swagger. Muhammad was very happy, still the coolest cat in the room.

I always said, you know, not only was the greatest of all the time, but he was the greatest at many levels, at many things of being kind and compassionate, the greatest athlete of our era. As far as being cool, he had the bar way up here.

SIMON: We're told by a family spokesperson that Muhammad Ali had some kind of respiratory issue, which can be common in patients who have advanced Parkinson's. He was last seen in Phoenix a couple months ago. He did appear to be frail, but by all accounts he seemed to be doing OK. That's why this caught a lot of people off guard. We know that this afternoon in Phoenix, there will be a news conference where officials will talk about the funeral arrangements in Louisville -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Thanks so much, Dan Simon. Muhammad Ali has said he wanted o be remembered as, quote, "A man who won the heavyweight championship three times, who was humorous, and who treated everyone right." Coming up, his fans react to his death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the greatest thing to me about Muhammad ail is that regardless he stood up for what he believed in. I think that's really important and I think he was a great role model in that way, whatever you feel about his politics and that kind of thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[11:36:31]

WHITFIELD: Welcome back. Today the world is mourning the loss of a legend and an American icon. Muhammad Ali died at the age of 74. He passed away overnight after battling a respiratory infection.

Known in the ring as a three-time heavyweight champion, he also became known as a civil and human rights leader and humanitarian. In his hometown of Louisville, Kentucky, the city is in mourning.

At a memorial this morning a flag was lowered in honor of the man simply known as "The Greatest." Mayor Greg Fischer also paid tribute. Muhammad Ali suffered from Parkinson's disease for more than 30 years.

CNN national correspondent, Ryan Young, is there in Louisville at that memorial site. You also got a chance to talk to the mayor. The mayor had some very profound, amazing words for Muhammad Ali and the impact that he made on so many.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Honestly, Fred, I was struck by some of the comments that he decided to make because he made it a bridge to what was going on in society right now, especially talking about the challenges in communities surrounding Louisville area.

And hoping that the spirit of Muhammad Ali could reach out to some young children and maybe give them the impact and the idea that they could be great, too, that someone from a community just like this one could be great and known all around the world.

And now we are at a center that was built with some $80 million to commemorate this man's life. As you go downstairs and look at some of the artwork that's in here, it's quite astounding.

People have been dropping flowers here to the side of the center. Right now it just started raining in the last 5 minutes or so, so it's a little lighter crowd. People have been showing up here to show their support for the man known as the greatest.

We want to share that sound with you from the mayor and the center's director just about how profound this man's life was not only for this area but for the world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR GREG FISCHER, LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY: We're a great global city here, grounded in the value of compassion. This is what we're about, certainly it's what the champ was about as well. I mean, he leaves a legacy in the ring, there's no question about that.

But the real legacy is the values that he represented and how he wants us to live going forward. His passing right now, we hate it. We knew this day was going to come, but for us here in our city of Louisville and around the world, I think the question is what do we do, how do we take up his values?

DONALD LASSERE, PRESIDENT, CEO MUHAMMAD ALI CENTER: There was a young man that came in and he was battling leukemia. He met Muhammad and his disposition changed immediately. He shook Muhammad's hand and they hugged. When he came in, he was down. After leaving, he said this to Muhammad, he said, "I'm going to continue to fight and continue to battle and I'm going to win" and that put a smile on my face from ear to ear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: So Fred, when you think about the story, the idea that this young man started boxing because someone stole his bike. He wanted to whoop the person who stole his bike, you know what I mean, it's just so authentic.

And then the cop is like no, you need to o learn how to box if you are going to do that and then you turn into a champion.

[11:40:00]You've been to barber shops all over this country and there is one picture that always stands out, maybe Michael Jordan is the only other person that's in almost every barber shop across the country especially in black neighborhoods.

But this one is something that stands out, the Ali pose, over listing three-time champion. You know how strong this picture is for so many people, and of course, that memorial service, everyone is waiting to find out when his funeral will be here in Louisville, Kentucky.

WHITFIELD: That was a punishing blow. That picture is iconic.

YOUNG: Absolutely.

WHITFIELD: But you know, back to the police officer and that moment, that just really underscores the power of an individual, you know, at some intersection of your life and that police officer was that one to say, OK, let's turn that anger into something else, come to my gym and look at what happened. He couldn't have known that. That police officer probably knew he could make an impact, but not to that, you know, degree. So --

YOUNG: It's all about impact.

WHITFIELD: That's right. That police officer celebrated, Muhammad Ali celebrated and the legacy that both created. All right, Ryan Young, thank you so much. Appreciate it. We'll check back with you.

All right, so anyone who met Muhammad Ali never forgot it, even if they didn't fully realize at the time who he was. Coming up, we'll talk to one of our colleagues right here who had that kind of special moment and touched by the greatest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:45:26]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUHAMMAD ALI: Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, that phrase coined by the boxing giant himself, float like a butterfly and sting like a bee, no one said it better than him. Well, of course, that became a symbolic description of Muhammad Ali in the ring.

But outside the boxing ring, Ali also left a real lasting impression especially for those lucky enough to actually meet him.

One of those people is CNN justice correspondent, Pamela Brown, who met Ali when she was a very little girl. Pam joins us right now. Pam, where are you?

All right, Pamela Brown is joining us from Washington. So Pam, this is a beautiful story of how you had this brush with greatness because your dad was good friends with Muhammad Ali there in Kentucky.

Tell us about these beautiful pictures of you. How old are you at this point when you're meeting him, when you're at the table with him?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Gosh, you know, I think I want to say I was around 10 years old. I think we have some other pictures that we can put up that just came into the system.

But you know, at that age I knew he was this big deal because everywhere we went there was a huge crowd that would surround him, and he loved to show off for the crowd.

He would always do the magic tricks for the crowd. At home when we were sitting at the kitchen table, we would love to show each other our card tricks. He would sit there and watch me do mine.

And of course, you know, they weren't very impressive but he acted impressed and he would show me his. And it was really incredible. I felt this connection with him, this bond with him.

I think that he just made everyone in his path feel special. I say as a little girl, he really gravitated toward children, he loved children. There were so many adults in the house, but he wanted to hang out with me and play cards. I think that says a lot.

There's a picture, I don't know why it's not coming up yet but at the Kentucky Derby, the year that he came as our family's guest. Everyone in the grandstands stood up and chanted his name and he would go like this, you know, his move.

He just brought so much life and happiness to everyone around him, just an incredible human being. This was at church, right after a church service in Lexington, Kentucky. You can you see the crowd around him. I'm to his right.

He just made everyone feel special, took the time to sign autographs, do his magic tricks. Just an incredible human being.

WHITFIELD: So, Pam, your dad is with us, Governor John Brown, former Kentucky Governor John Brown with us and also co-founder of the Muhammad Ali Center in Louisville. So, Mr. Governor, what was this relationship like between you and Muhammad Ali? Clearly very extraordinary for you to also be the co-founder of this center.

JOHN Y. BROWN JR., FORMER GOVERNOR OF KENTUCKY (via telephone): Well, it goes way back. I saw a picture of Ali after he won the foreman fight and he was with someone involving politics in Chicago, and I called the politician and said have Ali come to Louisville, my wife, Ellie Brown, is on the Kentucky basketball.

We were playing Dr. J. in the finals of the NBA championship. So he came to Louisville and that really started his association with Louisville because after his draft thing happened, you know, he was -- he wasn't accepted in Louisville.

And now they'd grown to love him and embrace him and so proud of what his life has meant to the community, not only with the Ali Center, but his impact around the world and being associated with Kentucky and Louisville. So I went to all his fights after the Foreman fight and the association has been very special to me.

WHITFIELD: Wow. I mean, clearly, you had a strong professional relationship, but then you incorporated each other in your family lives. I mean, we saw that through the pictures that Pam, you know, has brought to our attention and shared her stories.

What were you thinking, you know, as a father and as a friend of this great iconic figure? What kind of lessons might be imparted on your daughter getting to know the greatest of all time?

[11:50:00]Was that even something that you considered or thought about, you know, when you wanted to make sure that your daughter was there in some of these very public and private settings with Muhammad Ali? JOHN Y. BROWN JR: Well, you know, Ali makes you feel like he is just a regular person and a regular friend. He is so relaxing to be around and so humble. He just embraces people. He loved Pam.

They would sit there, as I remember, he came in and we had black police officer incident here. There was a lot of attention. They asked me if I would get ahold of Ali and have him come in. He came in that weekend and stayed all night with us.

The whole community settled down because just his presence settled down the tension that we were going through at that time, which was very unusual for our city. The next morning, he was in there playing magic tricks with Pam and playing cards with her for a couple of hours.

He went to church. We had a packed house. We went to the Southfield Christian Church. Must have been 2,000 people. He said, I don't see no black folks here. I said, yes, just a great sense of humor.

He stood for two hours signing autographs for everybody that wanted it. He was so special and so humble and so easy to be around, you know. He befriends anybody that he runs into. My relationship goes back with him for 35 years, ever since the foreman fight in the early '70s.

WHITFIELD: Pam, clearly, your thoughts about Muhammad Ali have evolved since you grew up. You may have been thinking, brother, why do I have to take a picture with another friend of the family only to have a better understanding over time? Tell me about that kind of evolution of your own thinking about your place in history, his place in history.

PAMELA BROWN: Well, I think for Muhammad Ali and what I have learned about him knowing him on a personal level and then seeing all that he has done is just courage and the conviction that he had to stand up in what he believed in.

I've learned so much from him in that way and I hope that I lived my life like that because he is just a one of a kind person, one of the greatest men that ever lived. He wasn't afraid of adversity.

He was not well-liked by a lot of people because he was standing up for his convictions. Now, he is one of the most beloved people in the world.

It is just surreal to think I was sitting there at the kitchen table playing cards with them having no idea what a big deal he was. There we are at the derby one year. I have learned so much from him. His legacy will continue to live on.

WHITFIELD: So beautiful. Thank you so much, Pam Brown and Governor John Brown, for sharing these beautiful images and remarkable memories and experiences with the greatest, Muhammad Ali. Thanks so much. And the next hour of the NEWSROOM starts right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) WHITFIELD: Welcome back. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. We are remembering boxing legend and American icon, Muhammad Ali, who passed away at the age of 74. Ali was known not only as one of the greatest boxers of all time, but also as one of the greatest trash talkers in and out of the ring.

Here are just a small sample of some of Muhammad Ali's poetic, colorful and rather provocative prose.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUHAMMAD ALI: I must be the greatest. Float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.

This may shock and amaze you, but I will destroy Joe Frazier.

I'm so bad. You know, what I've been doing, last week, I went out to the jungle and wrestles with alligators and tussled with a whale and handcuffed and put them in jail. I'm bad, man.

Can I dance? A Catholic. The man to beat me hasn't been born yet.

I'm the greatest. I could knock you out. Last week, I murdered a rock, into the stone I went a brick. I'm so mean, I make Madison sick.

Look at me now. Don't tell me that ain't a perfect specimen of a man. Look at that body, slim, trim, got all my toes.

I'm the fastest thing on two feet, man. I'm not only a fighter. I'm a poet, I'm the prophet, I'm the resurrector. I'm the savior of the boxing world. If it wasn't for me, the game would be dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Hello again and thanks so much for joining me in our now special programming. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Berman. I am live in Louisville, Kentucky, Fred. I'm outside the Muhammad Ali Center here, a place built in 2005, a legacy to Muhammad Ali and all he stood for, all he worked for.

People have been coming -- it's been a down pour over the last few minutes so you can't see people behind me right now, but a few minutes ago, this was full.