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CNN NEWSROOM

Trump Makes Strikes Against Clinton; 911 Calls in Zoo Incident UCLA Murder/Suicide; Trump U's Handling the Press. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired June 2, 2016 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:30:00] PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Trump and his very crude way of talking about, you know, just bombing them to smithereens and not letting Muslims into the country. But when you ask people who is better on handling an international crisis or dealing with relations with the world, then Hillary Clinton has a really big advantage. So she's trying to redefine this debate in terms of who has the knowledge and character to deal with the world more generally because that's where she has a real advantage.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: General Hertling, when you hear Mr. Trump say he knows more than the generals, what goes through your mind?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I've debated him on that and not through -- directly to him, but through Anderson Cooper, as you know, Carol, and I just think it's a ludicrous statement to make. But going back to the secretary's policy speech tonight, I'm hoping she's going to give a much broader approach than just the single issue of ISIS. We're faced with quite a few challenges. ISIS is certainly one of them. But there's also an expanding Russia and an expanding China, nuclear proliferation and a bevy of other things.

So I think if we only stick to ISIS, we're in trouble. Mr. Trump saying that he knows how to do it without taking advice from others is just ludicrous. Any president can't handle all the challenges that comes across his or her desk, they have to rely on the experts. And he believes he's the experts and that's a little bit frightening, in my view.

COSTELLO: Well, well, but, Peter Bergen, I think that a lot of Americans feel that America's not winning the war against ISIS. They feel that America is weak and they present a weak face to the world and tough talk matters. Does it?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: You know, tough talk is tough talk and it's not about actual actions. I mean if you look at ISIS has lost something like 40 to 45 percent of its territory in Syria and 20 percent in Iraq and, you know, we're seeing -- you know, the idea that -- that we're not bombing ISIS already is completely ludicrous, to use a word that General Hertling is using. You know, we've had more than 10,000 sorties against ISIS and the problem is, of course, they've -- they're embedded in cities and we're not going to kill, you know, tens of thousands of Iraqi and Syrian civilians in order to (INAUDIBLE) ISIS. But the momentum has shifted against ISIS very much in the last year or so. They may lose Fallujah relatively soon, an important city in western -- in Anbar province in Iraq. And they've already lost significant towns and cities in Syria and Iraq over the last year. So the fact is, is that the war -- you know, people may feel that we're not winning against ISIS, but feeling things is different from actually just observing what the facts are.

COSTELLO: Interesting. OK, so -- so -- well, well, let -- I just want to get these -- I want to get these sentiments from the candidates in so we can talk about them so people can see the differences in the foreign policy positions of these candidates. Clinton and Trump also have very different styles when it -- when it comes to talking about Muslims. An example.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is both a shameless and a dangerous idea. At a time when America should be doing everything we can to lead the fight to defeat ISIS and other radical jihadists, Donald Trump is playing right into their hands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Now, we should point out that Mr. Trump has sort of evolved on his position. He's come to say that London's new mayor, Sadiq Khan, who is Muslim, would be an exception to the ban. He would be welcome in the United States. But, still, Peter Beinart, I think that really resonates with people who are afraid of terrorist attacks, like what happened in San Bernardino.

BEINART: Sure. I mean putting people in internment camps also resonated with people in the 1940s. The point of being a leader is not to play and exploit and fuel people's basest and worst fears, it's actually to try to lead them to something better. Most Americans who are killed in shooting attacks in the United States are not killed by Muslims. It would be totally ineffective. There would be no way of even telling, how would you tell what religion every person coming into the United States was? Are we going to ban the Saudi king and royal family from coming? I mean at every level this is a despicable and ridiculous proposal and it needs to be treated as such.

COSTELLO: But, you know what, General Hertling, I'm just thinking that, you know, when you listen to the two candidates talk about the Muslim ban and their differing positions, you kind of remember what Donald Trump says, but you don't really remember what Hillary Clinton says. Isn't that a problem?

HERTLING: It is a problem, Carol, and it goes back to what Peter Bergen just said, and I'll continue it on with this area, because it's tough talk and it's not smart talk. When you're dealing in international relations, international diplomacy, the challenges that we face on a daily basis, you have to understand the details and conduct an analysis, you can't just throw out tough talk because in my experience in the military, tough talk never works. You have to do some analysis. You have to actually have a plan and then you have to work a strategy. Tough talk won't make it, frankly. You've got to be a little bit smarter than that.

[09:35:22] COSTELLO: And, Peter Bergen, you've written extensively on this. But, again, some Americans might think that ISIS, you know, goes off and chops off people's heads and uses children as human shields. We're seeing that right now in Fallujah. So don't you have to take extreme measures in fighting an enemy like that?

BERGEN: Well, just to get back to the question of banning Muslim immigration and what affect it might have on terrorism, as a factual matter, Carol, every lethal terrorist attack in the United States carried out since 9/11 has carried -- been carried out by an American citizen or an American permanent legal resident. So banning Muslim immigration would have no effect on that fact. Secondarily, obviously it would be open to significant constitutional objections because we haven't used religious tests of this kind before. And thirdly, you know, go back to the 1920s. I mean, were there politicians saying we should ban all Italians from coming to the United States because a small minority might be members of the mafia? Of course we didn't and the country is a better place for it.

COSTELLO: Interesting. OK, so here's my third example because, as you know, Mr. Trump likes to hit Clinton and Democrats for not saying "radical Islam." Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I call it radical jihadist terrorism because, you know, it is clearly rooted in Islamic thinking that, you know, has to be contested, first and foremost, by Muslims around the world.

I think these debates about semantics really misses the point.

TRUMP: Hillary Clinton also refuses to say the words "radical Islam," even as she pushes for a massive increase in refugees coming into our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, Peter Beinart, this confounds many Americans. Like, if you can't say what the problem is, how can you fight it?

BEINART: The problem with saying the word "radical Islam" is that the people like Donald Trump whose use that term can't actually define it. They use it to include both Shi'a and Sunni who are fighting against one another. Does it include the government of Saudi Arabia, our closest ally? I mean they are governed by sharia law. Does it include the government of Pakistan? It's better to talk about fighting against ISIS or al Qaeda. We know what those groups are.

When we defined, during the Cold War, the fight against communism, that's what led us into Vietnam. It was way too broad and promiscuous a term. Much better to focus specifically on the particular organizations and regimes that we are in conflict with, not with broad or -- broad kind of definitions that actually, when you push people, they can't actually explain.

COSTELLO: So, General Hertling, from a military stand point, do semantics matter?

HERTLING: They absolutely do, Carol. And this is why what I'm looking for from Secretary Clinton's speech today is an indicator of what her national security strategy will be. Words are important because they trickle down to other organizations, like the military, like the State Department. And you really have to be firm and have somewhat of an approach or, as we like to call it, a doctrine when you address problems in a very complex world.

You can't just make things up on the fly. You have to have a plan. You have to have a strategy. And that strategy has to be met with resources. So far we've seen that from, I think, from the Democratic side. We have not seen it from the Republican candidate. He just has ideas and spouts tough talk.

COSTELLO: So, Peter Bergen, as a guy who's totally immersed in the problems with ISIS and terrorism at large, what do you want to hear from Hillary Clinton today?

BERGEN: Well, I think what she almost certainly is going to say is not dissimilar to what's in her platform. She's not calling -- she's not going to call for 100,000 men and women invasion of Iraq and Syria. America -- even the most hawkish Republican candidates are not calling for that. I think she's going to call, based on what she's already said, for kind of an amplification of what we've seen the Obama administration doing. Not huge sea change. She has also indicated, you know, that she's in favor of a no-fly zone over northern Syria, which I think would help significantly with the refugee problem in Europe and also would, you know, would be the right thing to do as a humanitarian matter. And that is something that she has a distinct difference with the Obama administration, which has proven to be -- they've basically said we're not going to do that.

COSTELLO: Have to leave it there. General Mark Hertling, Peter Beinart and Peter Bergen, thanks to all of you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, frantic 911 calls as bystanders watch powerless to help a little boy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CALLER: He's got the baby and it's still alive, but he's dragging him from one end to the other. Oh, my God.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:43:59] COSTELLO: Frantic 911 calls revealing the mother's reaction as her little boy is dragged by a gorilla around a zoo exhibit. Witnesses say before this video was taken, the gorilla slammed the boy against the wall. His mom, seconds later, helplessly called police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOTHER: My son fell in the zoo exhibit at the gorillas. The Cincinnati Zoo. My son fell in with the gorilla. There's a male gorilla standing over him. He's dragging my son. I can't watch this. I can't -- I can't -- I can't -- I can't watch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: In all, six calls to 911 were made. CNNs Jessica Schneider is live in Cincinnati with more.

Good morning, Jessica.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

A flurry of 911 calls came through on Saturday. And as you heard, the most urgent was from the mother of that three-year-old. She was telling the dispatcher she just couldn't even bear to watch that uncertain situation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MOTHER: Hi, my son fell in the zoo exhibit at the gorillas. The Cincinnati Zoo. My son fell in with the gorilla. There's a male gorilla standing over him. I need someone to contact the zoo, please.

[09:45:04] SCHNEIDER (voice-over): The mother of this three-year-old boy calling 911 amid helpless horror and attempting to conceal her son from afar.

MOTHER: OK. (AUDIO DELETED), be calm. Be calm. Be calm.

DISPATCHER: How old is your son?

MOTHER: Be calm. He's dragging my son. I can't watch this. I can't -- I can't --

DISPATCHER: How old is your son?

MOTHER: I can't -- I can't watch.

SCHNEIDER: Six 911 calls from the scene depict the desperation of everyone standing above the gorilla moat. Bystanders watching powerless for ten tense minutes.

CALLER: The baby is still in the water and the gorilla had it. But it had it -- it slammed it against the wall earlier.

DISPATCHER: OK. Can -- can you -- i any of the zookeepers next to you right now?

CALLER: Oh, God. Oh, God. It's got his pants. He's taking the baby.

DISPATCHER: OK, ma'am, listen to me. Listen to me. CALLER: He's taking the baby. He's taking the baby.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody out.

CALLER: He's taking the baby into the cave. Oh, my God.

SCHNEIDER: This caller describing something we can't see on video, Harambe taking the toddler even farther into his habitat, possibly part of the imminent danger prompting the dangerous animal response team's decision to shoot and kill Harambe. One eyewitness explaining exclusively to CNN what she saw.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a child who cannot endure this gorilla running across the rocks and dragging him by one foot. It was absolutely horrific and no mother should ever have to watch that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: Just minutes ago we heard from the family's spokeswoman. She says the family is cooperating with the prosecutor's investigation.

Carol.

COSTELLO: Jessica Schneider reporting live from Cincinnati. Thank you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the UCLA campus in mourning as officials try to determine a motive for a murder/suicide that left an engineering professor dead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:51:16] COSTELLO: Classes are expected to resume for most of UCLA today as the school reels from a murder/suicide that took the life of a beloved professor. The student body president identifying the victim as William Klug. But details about the shooter and the motive remains a mystery. CNN's Stephanie Elam was on campus as the story unfolded.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's hard to even fathom it, to have your son grow up without a dad is rough.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Loved ones grieving this morning over the shooting death of UCLA Engineering Professor William Klug. Klug was a husband and father of two, the coach of his 10-year-old son's little league team.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never a negative word. Always very positive. Kids loved working with him because he was such an easy coach to work with.

ELAM: The professor of mechanical and aerospace engineering was inside the same building where he taught his classes Wednesday morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a normal day on campus. Upwards of 25,000 students.

ELAM: Shortly after 10:00 a.m., hundreds of police, SWAT officers and the FBI stormed the Los Angeles campus after reports of three gunshots coming from one of the school's engineering facilities.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd suggest going back -- back that way.

ELAM: The campus on lockdown, police shutting down streets and paralyzing parts of the city.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): People are crying. People are like nervous. They're shaking.

ELAM: Inside, terrified students scramble to hide.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I closed the door with keys and barricaded the doors and turned off the lights.

ELAM: Some unable to lock the classroom doors barricading themselves in and tying cords and belts around the handles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our primary goal right now is to review all of our security procedures.

ELAM: Security cameras capturing the SWAT team sweeping campus buildings, only to find the bodies of Professor Klug and another as- yet unidentified male, a murder/suicide.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ELAM: And as of now, the campus is reopening, except for the engineering buildings. That will be closed for the rest of the week. But a lot of people here really focused on finals. And, Carol, I can tell you that I spoke to one young man while this was all going on. He was walking on campus. I asked him if he was nervous. He said that he was anxious about it but he was also more anxious about missing his final and that's how a lot of people feel since all of next week there will be finals and then Friday is graduation, Carol.

COSTELLO: I don't quite understand why they're not releasing the name of the shooter.

ELAM: They're not. I've talked to the police a couple times this morning. They're not saying his name as of yet. It is being widely reported what his name is, but we're waiting for the police to actually confirm that. A lot of questions here about what the motive was and whether or not it had to do with academics specific to these two, but they're not saying it for sure just as yet.

COSTELLO: All right, Stephanie Elam, thanks.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:58:13] COSTELLO: Donald Trump has a love/hate relationship with the media. He loves to hate us, but maybe he needs to go to Trump University for some lessons in dealing with the press. Here's Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump is famous for knowing --

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Excuse me, sit down, you weren't called.

MOOS: How to handle the media.

TRUMP The press should be ashamed of themselves.

By the way, the world's most dishonest people are back there. Look at all the cameras going.

Sit down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

TRUMP: Sit down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

TRUMP: Sit down.

MOOS: But maybe he should sit down and read his own Trump University media guidelines. The company playbook released by the court included tips for dealing with the media, such as "expect to be scrutinized."

TRUMP: I like scrutiny. But you know what, when I raise my money -- excuse me, excuse me, I've watched you on television. You're a real beauty.

MOOS: Nowhere on the list does it say humiliate the press.

TRUMP: Even the horrible press, which is back -- oh, look at all those people.

MOOS: Nowhere does it say, treat the press with condescension.

TRUMP: Are you ready? Do you have your pad?

MOOS: But some of the actual media tips could be useful. "Reporters are rarely on your side and they are not sympathetic."

And just as Trump excuses some Mexicans --

TRUMP: They're bringing crime, they're rapists, and some, I assume, are good people.

MOOS: He also gives some reporters a pass.

TRUMP: Disgusting reporters. Horrible people. Some are nice. MOOS (on camera): Now, from a reporter's point of view, the playbook's

last media tip is our favorite. "Remember, courtesy gets you a long way."

MOOS (voice-over): But Donald definitely didn't read that one.

TRUMP: Like this sleazy guy right over here from ABC. He's a sleaze.

MOOS: Trump's harshest press insult --

TRUMP: They're scum.

Absolute scum. Remember that, scum.

[10:00:01] MOOS: OK, we'll try to remember.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Scum, scum, scum.

MOOS: Maybe The Donald needs to write up some new press guidelines. I'm here to take your complements might be a good one.