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Director of Cincinnati zoo spoke on the gorilla incident; Possible Republican lawmakers to run as third party presidential candidate; An amputee reached Mouth Everest; 3:30-4p ET

Aired May 30, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:30:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you think it says that they are all backing you up?

THANE MAYNARD, DIRECTOR, CINCINNATI ZOO: They're professionals who understand the animal business. They understand the power of gorillas. They understand tough decisions have to be made.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you been in contact with the (INAUDIBLE)?

MAYNARD: I have not personally but our primate curator who has a relationship with their primate folks have.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there any concern that this will affect business in the future?

MAYNARD: No. You know, I think the opposite. People will show how much they care about animals. People that work at zoos love animals and people innately love animals and this is a town that loves the zoo and loves its gorillas. So I think folks will be here to see them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When will the exhibit open again?

MAYNARD: This weekend is the hope.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two more questions.

MAYNARD: You might have seen this. I don't know if it's on the press or not, but a charming thing, ever since yesterday morning, people have -- some bringing flowers and notes. Mostly put them around a gorilla statue over at the entrance to our gorilla center and with lots of kind notes and that's been a sweet thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It will open Saturday?

MAYNARD: That's our goal. Yes. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any legal ramifications in the future for either the zoo or these people? Do you know?

MAYNARD: I don't know. But I hope not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you think about --?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you think --? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- like an investigation, how you're looking into

this? Is that just the zoo itself? Does the USDA of that area or someone to check off on that when you're done with it?

MAYNARD: Sure. As I mentioned, zoos are regulated by the USDA. So they'll take a look at the situation. They're charged with, you know, reinforcing the animal welfare act and the endangered species act and make sure that we're checking off the boxes as we do it and naturally in our case we're looking at this area and other areas around the zoo to make sure that the barriers are just right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you think about the law? I don't know if you've seen it but it was keep parents or someone who is not paying attention accountable if an animal has critically endangered that is to be shot. What is your take on that?

MAYNARD: Yes. I'm not familiar with it. I heard that there's some petitions or something. That all sounds very complicated and I don't know the answer to it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mentioned Jane Goodall. Could you tell us what came out of that exchange?

MAYNARD: She sent her sympathy. She sent her sympathy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you expand on what you were talking about? You said you'll look at safety in other areas of the zoo. Is there a safety audit playing or is there something (INAUDIBLE) coming up here?

MAYNARD: Well, as I said, and I think folks maybe even the other day heard me say, obviously, if you have a park that is open to over 1.6 million people a year, you have over 10,000 kids spend a night in the zoo in the dark, you take safety very seriously. So we review safety regularly. We have a security and safety team. We also have a system through both our facilities program as well as our keepers out on the grounds to review areas regularly. Look at them seeing what needs to be improved or repaired and that is an ongoing process. We will make sure it's tight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need your name.

MAYNARD: My name is Thane Maynard. I'm director of the Cincinnati zoo and botanical gardens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you spell it for us.

MAYNARD: T-H-A-N-E-M-A-Y-N-A-R-D.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, guys.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: All right. You have been listening for the last half hour here, the director of the Cincinnati zoo, where this just terrible thing happened over the weekend in which the little 3- year-old boy climbed over some barriers. Apparently barriers had been exactly how they had been for 38 years at the zoo. You know, through some bushes and somehow, I guess, fell down into this mote 15 feet down and that's when ultimately this 450-pound endangered silverback gorilla ultimately grabbed this child and the zoo has to make the tough call as to whether or not they needed to shoot it and they did.

So as he said, mega, mega loss for the zoo but they are just so glad that the little boy is OK. And we should have a bigger discussion so I have Ron Magill with me. He is a communications director of the Miami zoo which is home to Harambe's 50-year-old grandmother. Danny Cevallos is here with me on the legal angle looking ahead and also Jessica Schneider is live there at the zoo to talk a little bit more about the family.

Well, you know, what we haven't seen on the video. But Ron, let's just begin with you. I was taking note of the language when they described this child was in the mote, you know, and it was essentially an all hands on deck situation. The female gorillas quickly went awe but this male, Hurambe, was excited. And so the words as far as behavior, he described displaced aggression, acting erratically and that then led them to not tranquilize the animal for fear what could happen, they shot him. Is that how -- do you read the situation similarly? Would you have made the same call?

[15:35:12] RON MAGILL, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, MIAMI ZOO: Absolutely same call. That gorilla was disoriented. He was agitated. Contrary to what the female's going in, the male's gorillas, you know, instinct is he is protecting the troupe. He wants to find out what's going on. He went down to the mote. If you look at that gorilla, you saw how he brought the child into the corner. I don't think that gorilla had an intention of hurting the child but the bottom line is he was frightened. He was agitated. His strength is unbelievable. You can watch the way he whipped the child through the water like a ragdoll. You know, just a right whipping and talking, he hit his head against the concrete. It could have been over in a second.

That situation was only escalating. As the child cry, the people were screaming. The gorilla became more disoriented. It needed to be a quick decision. It could not be a tranquillizer. I have been in situations where we tranquilize gorillas on various occasions. As soon as that tranquillizer dart hits the gorilla, it is like a tranquillizer dart hit you. You would go ow. But with gorillas, they don't know what it is. They have it is called displaced aggression where all of a sudden whatever is closest to them they think is the reason they felt that dart. That child could have been in more severe danger have they tried to tranquillizer dart. And the fact is it would have taken minutes to take effect and probably longer because that gorilla was on extra excited state, extra adrenalin which would have taken drugs even longer to take effect.

BALDWIN: So when you saw all of this, and fortunately, we only have just a little bit of a window of what happened, right. What I really want to see is how the heck this child ended up at the top of the barrier through the brush and the mote. We don't have that yet, you know. The zookeeper, you know, was saying, listen, haven't you seen a 3-year-old or 4-year-old? Anyone's capable of doing this. But when you see this little boy, at first it almost looks like the gorilla, looks like Hurambe is being gentle. And we have seen other videos around the world of how, you know, gorillas almost as if it would be their own taking, taking the child in and then suddenly, you see this.

MAGILL: Right. And the different situation is this. Some of the other videos you see, one was legendary in Chicago when the child fell in. But the child fell in was unconscious. This is a female gorilla who got to the child, a female who had been a mother. The child was not screaming. They didn't have the tons of people screaming so close to the gorilla. So it is much different situation.

This female had an instinct to hold that child, bring it to the zookeeper knowing something was wrong. I guarantee you if that child was screaming and flailing it would have been a different situation. Had that - a public screaming and raising rocks over that gorilla, it would have been a different situation. And it is very different, a female who has been a mother to a father who has never even been a father.

BALDWIN: That is exactly what that zoo director was saying. And you hear it in the video. You hear all the screams. And the gorilla was excited. It was excited over it.

Danny, let me just bring you in because you could hear all of the different reporters asking the questions, peppering this, you know, director who is clearly in mourning over the loss of this beautiful animal. You know, as far as if anyone is pointing fingers, so far, by the way, no one is suing anyone although this just happened a couple of days ago. How do you read it from a legal perspective and negligence?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: There are many legal issues here when it comes to dealing with exotic animals. Under the law, they are nothing like the law of pets or something. As you can imagine these are endangered species. And even the engendered species act allows for self-defense. So that if somebody is threatened by violence, by even in endangered species, they can and have use principles of self- defense to avoid liability when they do in fact kill a critically endangered species.

Another thing to think about, too, is that federal law or more appropriately federal regulations require certain things when it comes to non-human primates' facilities and they have to essentially be kept away from other animals and we would presume other humans getting in. So I think that will be an issue going forward. What kind of protection did this gorilla have from humanity? Not so much what protection humans had from the gorilla but how well was this gorilla protected by the zoo from humans?

BALDWIN: As for the little boy, Jessica Schneider is with us. She is our correspondent in Cincinnati. And Jessica, let me just bring you in because a, I wanted the find out

how this little boy, the 3-year-old, we heard the zoo director say, you know, he wasn't going to be injured. He was being injured. He was being dragged along the concrete. How is this child? And also, how did this happen? Where were the parents? Where was the mother for this little child to slip away?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So a lot of issues here, Brooke. We haven't heard from the family except for a statement saying that the child is safe and that they're grateful to the zoo. But what we did hear in that videotape and what we heard from witnesses who were out here on Saturday afternoon, the mother was talking with that 3-year-old boy and witnesses say that the boy said to the mother, mommy, mommy, I want to go in the water. And she said, no, no. You can't do that. But somehow in between that conversation and maybe minutes later, when that boy was 15 feet down in the mote, he got in there.

Now, the parents haven't commented about how this happened. But zoo officials put it this way. They said that somehow that boy got underneath or over the barrier then made his way through some protective wiring through the bushes then climbed up on the mote wall and then dropped more than ten feet down into the mote below and that's when the visitors heard the splashing. That's when you hear the screams on that video and that's when the action began to unfold. It was ten tense minutes until the dangerous animal response team came in and decided that their only option was to shoot and kill that gorilla - Brooke.

[15:40:38] BALDWIN: Ending with this gorilla.

And Ron, just final words to you. It is on my bucket list to go to Uganda and see these creatures, you know, in their own habitat. But as far as how rare, how endangered, how special as we know he was 17, a couple of years away from, you know, breeding, just talk to me about the significance of this animal.

MAGILL: It's a huge loss. People talk about the loss of the Cincinnati zoo as part of the family, it is a loss to all of us who work with conservation, work with these magnificent animals. I have been to Uganda and Rwanda several times, Brooke. Make sure you that. It will change your view. It is an amazing experience. They are truly gentle giants. This was a horrific situation, a horrific accident that ended tragically but hopefully people can learn from it and understand how magnificent these animals are and how much attention to pay to them.

BALDWIN: Ron Magill, thank you. Thank you very much.

MAGILL: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Danny Cevallos, thank you. Jessica Schneider, thank you, as well.

Let's move away from Cincinnati now. I can tell you that just into us at CNN is one prominent conservative teases that a spoiler candidate to be announced soon. There is a new CNN reporting on one Republican lawmaker who considered a third party run against Donald Trump. Hear who that is, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:46:13] BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

On this special Memorial Day Monday where we honor America's fallen men and women, Hillary Clinton, she walked in her hometown's Memorial Day parade. Her husband former president Bill Clinton joined her for the event at Chappaqua, New York. Bernie Sanders attended the Memorial Day event in California.

And as a November election draws near, there's word another name could be on the ballot. Take a look at this tweet from editor of conservative publication "the Weekly Standard" Bill Kristol. So he tweeted which is about everyone a twitter over this. Just a heads up over this holiday week. There will be an independent candidate, an impressive one with a strong team and a real chance. So within hours of that, Donald Trump went on the counter attack calling Kristol a quote dummy and embarrassed loser.

So with that, let's go to CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston and CNN political director David Chalian.

My goodness, who in the world could this be? If it's anyone, David Chalian, you know, let me ask you first just about some of our reporting on how Bill Kristol's responded to this, about will be a challenge, by the way. We are almost in June. And then I'll ask you about Adam Kissinger.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Right. So Bill Kristol tells our Dana Bash that nothing is eminent. So that sounds to me like we may get through this holiday weekend without this person coming to fruition just yet, Brooke. But that to me sort of also the whole point here is that what Bill Kristol represents here is there is clearly still a sect inside the Republican party that firmly believes Trump is more dangerous to their cause than not. And so, I think what you see are people who are just unwilling to rally around him and yet they have not been able to emerge with a vehicle in a way that can actually harness the sort of never Trump energy, whatever of it may still exist, inside the party.

And to me, that's been their biggest problem. It's one thing to have a bunch of strategists sitting around and say, hey, I think Donald Trump may harm the Republican Party. If you look electorally at the fall or he doesn't believe in the policies and that we shouldn't have him be the conservative standard bearer. It's another thing if somebody steps forward who has a real credible opportunity to do what is a very significant, significantly difficult task of getting on every ballot and actually being competitive in a national election. To me those are two different things.

BALDWIN: So then if it's not eminent but perhaps could be someone, sometime, you know, from the Romney folks, let me just quote Dana's reporting the source. No, no, no. No, no, no, no, I promise you no. That's from the team Romney. Senator Ben Sasse who has been, you know, folks have been trying to recruit him. Still a no. What about Republican congressman Adam Kissinger?

CHALIAN: Right. This is a young Republican congressman from Illinois, somebody familiar with his thinking, told Dana Bash that he would have considered it and believes literally this person said to save the union. He would have done this because he is so scared of both Clinton and Trump. And yet, even with that as his thinking, he thinks that it's logistically not a feasible thing to put together and as apparently rejected the idea. So it just shows you how difficult it is going to be that he is never Trump forces to actually find someone.

BALDWIN: Yes. OK. So still not a yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes from anyone moving ahead.

Maeve, what about you in California? I know Hillary Clinton has added a couple more campaign stops in California Thursday through Monday. We know Bernie Sanders has been there sort of nonstop since last week. We have seen, you know, the polls showing last week. She is in a tighter race with him in California. What do you make of that?

[15:50:08] MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, I think that, you know, having gone to both of their events last week clearly Bernie Sanders (INAUDIBLE), you know, his last big push to really make an impact and try to win this thing. He talked about it over the weekend as being the big enchilada. And what is striking is just how much energy there is still is at his rallies. Certainly with diverse young crowds coming out, for example, to see him in river side last week. And he is just going all the way.

But I will say at the same time that it really feels like now that Hillary Clinton is just solely focused on Donald Trump that she really is starting to hit her stride a little bit more not with the emails so much but in terms of her messaging and connecting with the crowd and electrifying them. You really saw that more last week. And that's going to be an interesting dynamic going into this final weekend where she is going to make a huge push.

BALDWIN: Maeve Reston, David Chalian, thank you so much in politics.

I want to get to this here as we're talking, thank you, on Memorial Day. You know, it is a day to acknowledge the incredible men and women who put their lives in danger to protect each and every one of us. But when you meet as many veterans as I have had the privilege to meet, you come to realize what they accomplish when they return from service can be just as amazing. And today, I am absolutely an awe of Marine Corps veteran Charlie Linville, the staff sergeant reached the top of the world's tallest mountain, Mount Everest, with a prosthetic leg folks. He became the first combat amputee to do so. A feat he could not have done without Tim Medvetz, the founder of the Heroes Project. This is a group that Medvetz former hells angel and thrill seeker started to help our men and women in uniform take on the world's tallest mountains. I talked to both of them just a while ago. You have to hear their story. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Sergeant Linville and Tim, it is awesome to talk to both of you. And congratulations!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, thank you.

BALDWIN: Amazing. And, you know, obviously especially on this Memorial Day, sergeant, thank you so much for your service and your time, but, I mean, seriously Everest. Has it hit you that you reached the tallest peak in all the world?

STAFF SGT. CHARLIE LINVILLE, U.S. MARINE CORPS: No, you know, it hasn't. That's one of the questions that everybody asks. And besides just my body being deteriorated and ready to go home to have some great sleep, I know that the moments and it come wards just like, my goodness, I just climbed at the top of the world. I'm kind of waiting for that moment to happen. But right now I'm just kind enjoying everything that is happening so far.

BALDWIN: I just did Kilimanjaro which amounts to nothing compared to what you did. But I just remember days after in trying to climb stair, that was a challenge in on itself.

But let me ask you, sergeant, you know, I mean, take me to that moment, as we would say in the south, like you are come to Jesus moment. The moment when, you know, you were thinking should I, could I, can I when you were on that mountain?

LINVILLE: Yes. Well, the whole things, it was just an intense rigorous climb, right. But definitely, the moment for me was like can I do this? I hit the second step which is this like this tall vertical rock face on summer day. And I remember getting to the base and being like oh, man. I have to go up this thing? Like are you kidding me? It was a pretty scary moment. But I got to the top of that and had some really good confidence. My body was feeling good. And just kept dragging forward and eventually made it to the top.

BALDWIN: And what did it feel like?

LINVILLE: So you come up this like really steep rock base, it's like a mile drop off down the side and you ground up. And I just remember seeing the top and seeing -- I'm there. There was exhaustion, excitement, that's just the culmination of all these emotions that have been going on for three years. And I got to the top and just let out a big yell, as much as you can at 29,000 feet, really.

BALDWIN: Right. I'm imagine the air is a tad thin. But I'm sure, it echoed quite a bit.

And Tim, the last time talk, you we at the top of Kelly (ph). So we have to continue meeting like this. I love this. And, you know, for you, you, you know, you summited Everest a number of years ago. You know what it takes. When did you meet Sergeant Linville? And then at what point did you say you and Everest needs to happen? TIM MEDVETZ, FOUNDER, THE HEROES PROJECT: That's an easy one. But

let me just first, I just needed to stop your interview for a second and just thank you for continuing to recognize what we are doing for these veterans and from Kilimanjaro with Julian Torres, who is missing both his legs, post injury, and now with Charlie. And juts to have you, you know, ringing the phone and saying, hey, you know, we want to have you back on our show. And it is media outlets like you guys that are recognizing what we are doing for these veterans and doing media is, obviously, it's nice because it allows us to reach more than just one guy. And that's what it's truly about. Specifically on this day, Memorial Day, in light of all the guys who didn't make it back. And he is still here and a lot of these guys are still here, but they are recovering from their wounds in the war. And it takes people like you and news outlets like CNN to really recognize that. So I just want to thank you.

[15:55:37] BALDWIN: Well, I appreciate the love. But I'm throwing the love right back at you all in Bangkok today. And please, tell me the back story. How the heck did this happen?

MEDVETZ: Well, you know, with Charlie, you are asking like how did I know he was the guy. So it is really simple, actually. I mean, it is all the military branches and Charlie elected to go into the Marine Corps. And then after boot camp he decides that he wants to be an EOD technician, a bomb disposal technician, one of the most dangerous jobs in the Marine Corps. And he gets back. You know, he gets blown up. He comes back. He is missing, you know, his leg as completely thrashed. The doctors tried 13 surgeries to repair it. And then finally Charlie walks into the doctor's office and tells them I want you to take the leg off. I'm done with it. It's too much pain. I don't want to deal with it. And so Marine Corps, bomb specialist, and tells a doctor to amputate my foot. That's - he is already halfway to the summit of Everest. And that is the kind of decisions in life that it takes to get up the summit of Everest and get back.

And so, that was a real easy decision. It was Congo, a block just hit a rock fell out of the sky and hit me in the head. That's the guy for Everest because the handful of people who have summited Everest and made it back alive have made those decisions in life. At some point it's no longer physical, it's here and here and that's why the Heroes Project and myself chose this guy.

BALDWIN: So much of it is here and so much is here. Two questions and I've got to let you go. Charlie, why did you say yes?

(LAUGHTER)

LINVILLE: At the time I said yes because I was making decisions to have my leg amputated and I knew that I was going to need something more than just, you know, doing some physical therapy and, you know, just going to the gym. I needed something that was totally going to push my body to the limit. Not just your body but my new body, my war torn body. What was I going to do with what I was left with? And to me I needed a challenge. And there is no greater challenge why, in my mind, than Mount Everest. And I had the opportunity to climb Everest. It was presented by the Heroes Project. And so, I took it and never looked back. And it's been an incredible journey and figuring out how to use my prosthesis in the mountains and how far I can actually push the body I'm left with. And it turns out that --.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: By the way, it's time to go home and see his family. Charlie and Tim, thank you so much.

One more voice I really wanted to bring in on a special Memorial Day, Kathy Roth-Douquet, CEO and president of Blue Star Families, just received chief of staff army medal for outstanding service to the U.S. army.

Kathy, I told you we would talk on Memorial Day. It is so nice to see you again. We met the other weekend. And just quickly, when you and I met how many times has your family moved?

KATHY ROTH-DOUQUET, CEO/PRESIDENT, BLUE STAR FAMILIES: We moved eight times in 15 years. That meant continuous new jobs for me and ten schools for my tenth grader.

BALDWIN: My goodness. And Blue Star families, why do you do it? Tell me about it?

ROTH-DOUQUET: Blue Star Families had started six years ago by a group of military spouses. We wanted to tell the story of what we do so that we can make military families stronger and connect Americans to us. We have grown in the six years to be 1.5 million military family members we work with. I think there's a real need and we found it. And with help with good neighbors like such as yourself, we have been able to do great things to help our military.

BALDWIN: Why is it, in the final 40 seconds I have, you know, obviously so much attention on our men and women in uniform, but it's about the families, too. So many of them, you know, back here at home missing their loved ones. What is your message to them on this day?

ROTH-DOUQUET: Our message is that we military families know we love the work we do and we're happy to make the sacrifices that make the country safer. The sacrifices we make aren't necessary. We work to identify them and work with our partners to fix those problems. If it takes a village to raise a child, it takes a nation to support a military. We need our good neighbors. We ask everyone to join us.

BALDWIN: Again, let me repeat, Blue Star Families. An Honor to meet you and everyone else the other weekend at special event.

Kathy, thank you. I appreciate your voice.

ROTH-DOUQUET: Thank you so much, Brooke, for all you do.

BALDWIN: Thank you so much. Thank you.

And thank you for being with me on this Memorial Day. I'm Brooke Baldwin. We will take you to Washington next.

"The LEAD" with Jim Sciutto starts right now.