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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Baltimore Officer Acquitted in Freddie Gray Case; New Presidential Polls. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired May 23, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And hello everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

And we're going to begin with this legal breaking news. Baltimore Police Officer Edward Nero has been found not guilty on all of the charges he was facing regarding the death of Freddie Gray. Nero was charged with second degree assault, two counts of misconduct in office, and reckless endangerment. He elected to have a bench trial, meaning it was a judge making a final decision on the verdicts and not a jury of his peers. And this certainly did work in his favor.

Our Miguel Marquez is outside the courthouse in Baltimore right now with the reaction to what's transpired just in the last few moments.

Miguel.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It has been fraught to say the least here in Baltimore. People watching what happened in that small courtroom across the city very, very intently. I think there is concern about what will happen in the hours ahead here in Baltimore as news of this verdict gets through the city.

Let's just back up a second. Officer Porter, back in January, was - there was a hung jury. The jury could not come to a conclusion here. And now the judge, Barry Williams, an African-American, a very experienced judge, finds Officer Edward Nero not guilty on all counts.

Here's how the lawyer for the Gray family reacted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILLY MURPHY, FREDDIE GRAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: I found no problem with the judge's reasoning. And, of course, the outcome about how he weighs the evidence is strictly up to him and not to us. I commend Judge Williams because he's one of those rare judges that disregarded public opinion. There was enormous pressure from the African-American community to get a conviction.

MARQUEZ: An African-American judge, we should say.

MURPHY: Yes. And he did not bend to that pressure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: Now, the mayor of Baltimore, who says she is not running again after everything that happened in Baltimore since the arrest and death of Freddie Gray, Stephanie Rawlings Blake, she had a statement that reads in part, "this is our American system of justice and police officers must be afforded the same justice system as every other citizen in this city, states, and country. Now that the criminal case has come to an end, Officer Nero will face an administrative review by the police department. We, once again, ask the citizens to be patient and to allow the entire process to come to a conclusion."

Five other officers still face - including Officer Porter, that his trial ended in a hung jury, still face a process here and charges. The Fraternal Order of Police here releasing a statement saying that the nightmare for Officer Porter - for Officer Nero is now over, but there are five other officers who face that. Officers in this city that we know there is a slowdown after the arrest of Freddie Gray and the backlash to the arrest of the six officers. Officers across this city were watching this verdict very closely as well. They will certainly be relieved. It is a very, very interesting and delicate time here in Baltimore.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So, Miguel, a lot of people who watched this process and the minutia, the details of this process, they might not be surprised by this acquittal, but the next trial to come is the driver of the van, Caesar Goodson. And it may not be as clear cut, it may not be as easy for him. He faces different charges. And it is a unique set of circumstances that he is involved. And can you walk me through that trial, when it starts and what he's facing.

MARQUEZ: Caesar Goodson faces the most serious of charges, second degree murder among them. And he is the one that, in every case along the way, when it comes to whether or not an individual should have been seat belted into that van, it is the van driver's responsibility to do that.

He is a long time officer with the Baltimore City Police. He is represented by a very, very seasoned lawyer, Andy Graham, who will, I'm sure, do a very good job for him, but it is going to be a very difficult hill for him to climb. Every - everything that we hear in this case points to the culpability of Officer Goodson in his failure to put Freddie Gray in a seat belt. Remember, many people thought, and we were led to believe, that the initial injury to Mr. Gray happened on the street as he was arrested. The prosecution argued in that first case of Officer Porter that it was in the van somewhere between stops two and stops four that the - that the injury occurred. How that injury occurred isn't very clear.

At one point, Officer Goodson called for help along the way. That's where Officer Porter came along. They say inexplicably that there was no words exchanged between them. Officer Porter got in, checked on him. He seemed OK. He jumped out. They went to another call. This is going to be a very, very difficult case for Officer Goodson and one that will certainly be watched far more closely than even this case.

[12:05:08] Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Miguel Marquez watching things outside of the courthouse for us. Keep an eye on things. Possibly there could be more protestors, demonstrators showing up, so we'll check in with you regularly to see how things might change there.

But I want the legal view on this. The details matter in a decision like this. CNN legal analyst and defense attorney Danny Cevallos joins me live now, CNN legal analyst Paul Callan, a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor. Also with me and CNN legal analyst Laura Coates, who's a former U.S. assistant attorney for the District of Columbia.

First to you, Paul Callan. You said right away, I'm not surprised in the least at this judge's decision.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No, I'm not surprised because it was such an odd theory of criminal law that was advanced by the prosecutor in this case. Remember, Officer Nero was assisting other officers in making an arrest on the street. He arrives a little bit late on the scene. Freddie Gray has already been subdued. And there's also another - there's a lieutenant on scene earlier who ordered him to be chased and taken down.

So when Nero assists by, you know, taking him into custody and then putting him into the van, how can that be criminal conduct the defense argued? He was essentially charged with criminal conduct for not putting his seat belt on and for actually touching Freddie Gray. So -

BANFIELD: The touching is a big issue. The touching was something that this judge - and let's remember that in a bench trial, it's just the litigators and the judge. No jury has to be presented with anything. But the judge really took the prosecutors to task over the touching part of it because that's the thing that could have led to 10 years. That is the underlying issue with second degree assault. So why is that so significant, Danny?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's incredibly significant because the prosecution's theory in this case suggests that anytime a police officer lays his hands on another person and later on it's determined that there was no probable cause to lay those hands on that suspect, defendant, whatever, then, in theory, there may be a crime committed. But we all know people who practice criminal defense and prosecutors know that that result is almost absurd. The notion that anytime police make an arrest or lay their hands on somebody and later on a judge determines there was an absence of probable cause, that happens every day. Cases get thrown out all the time on motions to suppress. That is not the general rule. And if it were the rule, it would change overnight the legal landscape of prosecution of defendants and criminal cases in this country.

CALLAN: Prosecutors wouldn't make arrests - police wouldn't make arrests if they thought they were going to be charged criminally.

BANFIELD: If they had (INAUDIBLE).

Can I just interrupt for a moment. I'm fortunate to be joined right now live by Congressman Elijah Cummings, who represents Maryland.

Congressman, thank you for taking the time to speak with us and giving us your reaction to this.

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: Good to be with you.

BANFIELD: I know that you have - I know that you have said that this is justice in any way it comes down, but I want to get your personal feeling about today.

CUMMINGS: Well, you know, this is the system that we have in the United States. And, clearly, the state's attorney looked at this case. Freddie Gray, somebody who literally lived and died in my neighborhood perished while in the custody of police. I mean end - as a result of while he was in the custody of police. And so somebody had to be held responsible. And I think basically the state's attorney, who I have a tremendous amount of respect for, made a judgement call and brought charges in this case.

But this is the way the justice system works. And so in the first trial, with Officer Porter, there was a hung jury. And here the judge, Judge Barry Williams, whom I've known for over 20 years, a very fair judge and a very - runs a strict courtroom and brilliant young man, made a decision. And - and I think that when people look at this, they have to say that we have to trust the system that we have. In many of these cases, charges are never brought. There is no trial. So, again, this is the way justice rolls.

BANFIELD: So and that is often repeated in courtrooms, that justice doesn't always go your way. It doesn't mean justice isn't awarded.

CUMMINGS: No, it doesn't.

BANFIELD: But I think the bigger question would be that there are many people in Baltimore, people you represent, who would say, here we go again, another white guy gets off.

CUMMINGS: Yes.

BANFIELD: But how do you get your message that this judge, Judge Barry Williams, an African-American judge, is a remarkable jurist and would have given the utmost attention to this case and that maybe there isn't a race bias perhaps in this particular -

[12:10:04] CUMMINGS: Yes.

BANFIELD: To save the city from going through what it went through before.

CUMMINGS: Yes. Well, I said it on Friday, and I asked people to respect the decision, whatever it might be. And I would tell them that Judge Williams is a man who served in the Justice Department in the civil rights division. So he is very sensitive to these issues. And, again, a man who is a brilliant jurist and a very fair jurist. I

think there's nobody - anybody who practices law in the Baltimore area, as I did for 20 years, will tell you the same thing. So he had - basically, he had to look at the facts and apply the law. And when he looked at the facts and applied the law, he came to these conclusions.

Now, there are always going to be people who are not going to be satisfied with the decision. But keep in mind, we also have five more trials to go. And so I have not read his opinion today, but I do know that he has looked at this case carefully and has made no conclusions on one of the cases still coming up. And again, these - all these cases right now are scheduled to come in his court.

Now, others may not choose to have a judge try the case. They may choose to have a jury. But the fact is, is that, again, this is the system that we have. Is it a perfect system? No. But it's the best that we have -

BANFIELD: And nothing could possibly be.

CUMMINGS: That's right. That's exactly right.

BANFIELD: And it's among the best in the world, without question. But you just brought up a -

CUMMINGS: That's about - what I'm about to say.

BANFIELD: You just brought up the best point there, and that is that the others who still have yet to be tried may elect a bench trial, still have the right to a jury of their peers.

CUMMINGS: That's right.

BANFIELD: But with this decision, and then with the prior mistrial, which was a hung jury, is there any way that it could be extraordinarily difficult to get a jury, who doesn't - who isn't somewhat poisoned by the events that have preceded the next trial? Do you feel confident at this point that unless the next of the accused pick a bench trial, they might not be able to find people who can make a decision and be unbiased about it given what they've seen so far?

CUMMINGS: Well, I haven't - haven't practiced law for many years and a lot of trials. I can tell you, I think they can find that those jurors - and I think they will make a fair decision. Just as there was a hung jury before where people were actually divided about how they felt in the previous trial with Officer Porter, again, I think people have their own opinions. They bring their own biases. No matter what, they bring them. But, hopefully, they're able to sit down in that jury room, after listening to all the evidence and listening to the jury instructions and come up with a fair verdict. And so I have full confidence that that will take place.

BANFIELD: Congressman, it's always a pleasure and I appreciate you taking the time, especially so quickly, to join us on this extraordinarily important, you know, topic and event. Thank you.

CUMMINGS: Thank you.

BANFIELD: And straight ahead, we've got much more on this Baltimore verdict, the fallout from it. How today's verdict may or may not impact the others officers still awaiting trial. Believe it or not, there are a myriad of ways it could. Our legal panel is going to weigh in.

And then also, just to let you know, you can watch LEGAL VIEW" at any time, cnn.com/go. Back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:17:20] BANFIELD: Welcome back.

We're still on our breaking news in the Freddie Gray death case. One trial down, one mistrial. So, effectively, five more still to go. But the first verdict for one of the six Baltimore police officers charged in this case is not guilty. The judge acquitted Officer Edward Nero of all charges. And the judge did that because it was the only person to do so. That officer elected to have a judge hear the case instead of a jury. And that is your right to do so.

I want to bring back in CNN legal analyst Danny Cevallos, Paul Callan and Laura Coates.

And, Laura, with your background in the Department of Justice, I do want to ask you, when people hear verdicts that perhaps they don't like, they think there's sort of a second chance at the federal level, perhaps with the DOJ, perhaps with the civil rights case. Where do we stand and what are the thoughts about the facts in these cases, particularly Edward Nero's, and the Department of Justice?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the Edward Nero case is not a good case for the Department of Justice to try to investigate or act as a backstop, as it often does in other cases. And primarily the reason for that is because we have four misdemeanor offenses that were charged. These were not felony offenses against Edward Nero. The remaining officers who will be tried will have felony offenses, including Officer Caesar Goodson, who has the highest murder charge of all of them.

So in this particular case, the DOJ does not routinely come in to try to serve as a backstop on a misdemeanor level. But remember, there still is an investigation into Baltimore, whether there is a pattern or practice of behavior that the police department is using that has a (INAUDIBLE) or impact on members of color in the community of Baltimore. And so that still could be an ongoing issue. But this is not the kind of case that the Justice Department would come in and try to intervene.

Having said that, there are still other cases that are looming in far more serious charges that may be the types of cases, including Officer Caesar Goodson, but the DOJ may have a look at and may have an interest in trying to intervene in.

BANFIELD: OK. And, Paul Callan, if you were looking towards the next three and four, because that mistrial still needs to be retried, would you be advising your clients, looks like the bench trial's the way to go, not only because perhaps this was the verdict that everybody wants when you're a defendant, but also because the more news, the more anger and frustration in the community, the more the jury pool becomes a little more tricky?

CALLAN: Well, it depends in large part again - about which judge is assigned to the case, because, you remember, lawyers follow these judges very closely and they know whether they lean defense or lean prosecution and what their relationship with the political community is.

[12:20:04] BANFIELD: Billy Murphy seem to think this judge would be hearing all of the cases.

CALLAN: Well, if it's this judge then - hearing all of the cases, and, you know, sometimes a conflict develops, things happen that we don't anticipate, a lot of these attorneys will seriously consider a judge trial. For instance, here in New York, the Bronx is a jurisdiction where a lot of minority people, Hispanics in particular, feel police treatment has been unfair through the years, cops almost always wave juries in the Bronx. But they never do it in other jurisdictions in New York.

BANFIELD: You've just got to feel your way along on that one.

CALLAN: You've got to feel your way out, and this is a good message that's being sent, I think.

BANFIELD: But I wonder, and just one last point, really quickly, Danny, and that is that there's been a lot of news on these cases and lost in some of that news might have been that big, huge settlement that the city of Baltimore offered to Freddie Gray's family. They did that before this litigation played out. And we asked back then if that would have an effect on a jury pool seeing that the - that the city somehow decided that there would be enough wrongdoing to afford a settlement of the magnitude that it was. Several - I think it was somewhere upwards of 6 million.

CEVALLOS: It's a legal fiction to think that the news in Baltimore is going to enable you to impanel a jury that knows absolutely nothing about what's going on in Baltimore. And to build on Paul's point, when it comes to bench trials, the conventional wisdom among defense attorneys is that bench trials are generally a bad idea. But the reasons can mitigate in favor of a bench trial. While they mostly - the - the sort of the scuttle butt is that they're bad for defendants, and the theory is that you have to convince with 12 jurors you only need one to say not guilty. But with a judge, you only get one flip of that coin. So -

BANFIELD: You only get one guy and he's darn smart too.

CEVALLOS: Right.

BANFIELD: Or she, whoever it is, up on that bench. They've been to that rodeo before. Thank you to the two of you. Appreciate it. And Laura Coates as well.

Danny, Paul and Laura, thank you.

And just to reiterate, that is an African-American judge and a white defendant and that white defendant has been found not guilty. Some will say there's no reason to mention race. Others will say that's what so much of the anger in the community is all about. But there's still five more trials to go. We're going to continue to follow them.

But up next, we also have big news in politics. A meeting, and it's not small, at Trump Tower today with a potential VP nominee for Donald Trump. And lots of brand new poll numbers with a familiar storyline. Guess which way Trump is trending?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:26:57] BANFIELD: If the presidential race has left you a little bit unsteady, woozy, even that's because the political landscape is shifting under your feet and fast. Two new respected national polls show that the likely general election match-up of Trump versus Clinton is dead even. That's the sure sign yet that GOP voters are falling into line and Democrats, not so much. More on that in just a moment.

Geographically, the candidates are pretty far apart today. The Republican nominee to be is in New York meeting behind closed doors with a Republican U.S. senator, Bob Corker. That's Corker on the right. But I'm sure you knew that. Because the guy on the left is on your television screen every single day, all day long. Bob Corker is the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and he is also potentially a Trump running mate.

For Hillary Clinton's part, she's making her way to California, by way of Detroit. There she's going to address the Service Employees International Union. That's going to happen about one hour from now. But let's get back to those pesky polls, shall we? My CNN colleague, Tom Foreman, digging through the numbers. And while numbers can be boring, they sure aren't today. So take it away, Tom.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They're fascinating right now.

Over the past five or six days, we've been seeing something that an awful lot of Republicans thought they would never see and certainly a lot of Democrats thought they would never see. The latest "Washington Post"/ABC News poll, look at this, Trump 46 percent among register voters would choose him for president right now, only 44 percent, Clinton. That's within the sampling error, but still shocking numbers to many people out there compared to what they expected a couple of months ago. Over here, NBC News/"Wall Street Journal" poll, 46 percent in Clinton's favor to 43 percent in Trump. Again, within the sampling error.

But this is rock solid. Look at the change in the trend here. Trump, back in April, only 39 percent support among registered voters. He's now up to 43 percent. Clinton, same period of time, has dropped from 50 percent to 46 percent. There's just no denying this. And I know it makes some people very unhappy, but Trump is on an upward trend. Her numbers are on a downward trend. That can change, but at the moment that's what it's showing.

So, let's look a little bit more at what really is dominating this race. And this is a shocking number. If you've cover politics, if you've paid attention to politics, look at this. Their unfavorables are still dead even. In "The Washington Post"/ABC News poll, 57 percent. This is the worst for - in terms of unfavorables, these are the worst two candidates in at least 25 years in this country in terms of these numbers alone. And that can make for a very strange race.

So who does like them? Well, here's another unfavorable rating from NBC News. You can see also very, very high. But who does like them? Well, for Donald Trump, the people that he wins with are whites, seniors, men, and independents. Where can he grow here? Well, it's hard to say exactly where he would grow here, although he may very well want to target that middle group, independents, because they're the people who maybe are most on the fence in this whole thing.

[12:30:05] Hillary Clinton, she's winning with African-Americans, a massive win there.