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Plane Debris Found; Family of Victims Speaking Out; Interview with Representative Lynn Westmoreland; U.S. Navy Assisting in Search for Debris. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired May 20, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:00:20] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Good morning. I'm John Berman in for Carol Costello today.

We just got some new information in the investigation into missing Egyptian Air Flight 804. This coming from Greek officials. They tell us now they have found body parts, human remains, as they search for debris in the Mediterranean. Also two seats, two seats and one other item, what was the one other item they found? Also a suitcase. So this is adding to the information we're getting about the debris. They are finding two seats now, a suitcase, as well as human remains.

These will be key as they try to piece together what happened to that flight EgyptAir Flight 804 now missing or crashed believed to be more than 36 hours ago in the Mediterranean. This debris -- the initial debris was found about 180 miles north of Alexandria in Egypt.

As you can see, we have vessels from Egypt and Greece, many nations now involved in that search that's been going virtually around the clock and they are finding out more.

Also, an oil slick found in the Mediterranean by the European Space Agency. Their satellites finding some oil there around the site where they believe that that flight went down. This comes as executives from EgyptAir meet with the families of now the victims trying to console them, offering their condolences.

Charles de Gaulle Airport, where the flight began, is bolstering security. We understand that 30 more intelligence officers will be placed in that airport. The government not officially saying the reason for the increase. Security had already been up there after the Paris attacks last November.

We're going to bring you all the latest developments with our correspondents and aviation experts across the globe. Want to begin with CNN's Nic Robertson.

Again, Nic, we're just getting this new information from Greek officials. You are on Crete. Characterizing the nature of some of the debris that they are only now just recovering.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: John, that's right. And behind me is one of the Greek C-130 military cargo transport aircraft that is involved in that recovery and search effort. The other one is off this military air base at the moment flying in that recovery effort.

What we've learned from Greek officials, human body parts have been found. Two seats have been found. A suitcase or suitcases have been discovered. This debris field is southeast of where -- just southeast of where the aircraft Egypt 804 disappeared off the radar in the early hours of Thursday morning. It is north of that debris field that was found earlier on Thursday mistaken for parts of -- for part of the wreckage from this particular aircraft, but we are learning other debris fields are being spotted by other search and recovery efforts in the area.

It's not clear yet if those debris fields are linked to the missing EgyptAir aircraft at the moment, but now they have this one location. This should help begin to pinpoint and focus what has been -- what has been a wide scale search at the moment.

We know that there's a United States Orion P-3 surveillance aircraft involved in the search. A British naval vessel is involved in the search. The Greek authorities also have a surveillance aircraft in the air over the area as well as well as two helicopters on a neighboring island to Crete ready to join the recovery mission as they are needed in that effort, John.

BERMAN: All right. Two seats, a suitcase, as well as human remains. We're just getting a sense now of what is being located, and we presume recovered, in the Mediterranean.

Nic, we're also getting word from the European Space Agency. They have some pictures of an oil slick around the area where they suspect that this plane went down.

ROBERTSON: Yes. This is going to be very useful information for the C-130 pilots, for the other air crews and naval vessels in that area searching. Gives them a better -- again, focuses them in on the area. Not clear yet whether this oil slick that's been spotted is associated with the EgyptAir aircraft. What would be expected is when an aircraft like this crashes into the sea, you can expect a release of hydraulic fluids that will come up and float up to the surface.

You can also expect aviation fuel which may evaporate to some degree but you can expect that to come to the surface as well. So this may be what is being picked up by this European Space Agency satellite that's monitoring this specific area of the Mediterranean Sea.

[10:05:01] Again, once they get teams on site, can physically get close to that, they can begin to make a technical analysis of the type of oil, the nature of the oil, how long they might think it's been out there, how long it's been oxidized. They can gather a lot of information and that, again, all important working with the tidal charts there and the currents, knowing those currents there, it will again pinpoint precisely where this aircraft may have actually hit the water -- John.

BERMAN: Yes. They're working every angle right now, pulling on every thread, and more threads are emerging. As we indicated again, Greek officials telling us two seats have been recovered, human remains, as well as a suitcase or suitcases. They offer the possibility that it is plural as well.

Nic Robertson on Crete where so much of this search is being headquartered. Thanks so much, Nic.

We're also hearing now from family members of the 66 people on board. Victims' families gathering in Friday prayer outside the crisis center at Cairo International Airport. It was there that CNN's Ian Lee spoke with the uncle of the co-pilot. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Can you just tell me about your nephew? Just give me some words. What kind of a man was he?

YASSIR ABDEL GHAFFAR, COPILOT'S UNCLE: Again, he was absolutely very kind person. You'll never see a guy in his age in his humanity and sense of humor. I would say he was the only one that was really drawing smiles on our faces so -- what happened is really very much unfortunate, and there is not a big incident for only us as a family, but as you can see, the entire country is really sad about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I want to go live to Cairo International Airport. CNN's Arwa Damon is there.

Arwa, families who are gathered there, we know from past experiences, families just want answers. That does not mean that when the answers come as they are now beginning to that they're easy to hear.

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They're not easy to hear, and this is such an unspeakably difficult time for all those who have lost loved ones. Ian at that mosque also spoke to a number of the colleagues of the crew members who perished in this plane going missing and now having crashed into the Mediterranean, and a lot of them were very angry and irritated at this notion that perhaps somehow the crew was responsible, whether it's technical failure or terrorism, that somehow the crew could have been involved. So all of them were describing the crew members as being very loving, very professional individuals, and there is this sense that perhaps Egypt and EgyptAir are being wrongfully blamed.

There have also been a number of prayers being held throughout the entire country, but also here in Cairo for those who have gone missing at this stage in that plane, but interestingly, some family members actually not attending those prayers because they are trying to hold out hope that perhaps their loved ones may still be alive.

It is so difficult to lose someone who you care about, to lose a family member, to be a child who has lost their parent or vice versa, that coping with that loss, often one of the initial coping mechanisms is to try to perhaps deny what has taken place and cling to the hope that maybe, just maybe, your loved one is alive.

There's also been a lot of frustration with the lack of flow of information. People want answers. They want that critical question, why did this happen to us? Why did this happen to someone who we care about, who we love? To be among the first that are answered so that they can begin that difficult process of coping with all of these losses. But, again, at this stage we do have very little answers as to exactly why it is that Flight 804 went down.

BERMAN: Just unspeakable pain and obviously our thoughts go out to those families there waiting for more answers.

Arwa Damon in Cairo, thanks so much.

With me now to talk about all this, contributing editor for "Flying Magazine" and 777 captain Les Abend. We're also joined by CNN aviation analyst Miles O'Brien.

Guys, there is a black box, a flight data recorder sitting in front of you. We will get to that in a minute. But, Miles, I want to start with the news that we got in just a few minutes ago. Identifying more pieces of the debris now being located in the Mediterranean. Two seats, a suitcase or suitcases, and human remains.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Yes. It's grim, isn't it? It's worth for a moment pausing to remember the human toll here. The stuff that they're finding is the stuff you would expect to find initially. Things that float. And that's useful primarily to help them identify where the wreckage at the bottom of the sea might be. Locating it, knowing how long it's been since it's been in the water, and knowing the currents, you can literally backtrack to the point where the plane might be, and it begins that location of looking for the black boxes under the sea which will ping for at least 30 days.

So that's crucial. There's also some pieces that could rise to the surface which in and of themselves which will have evidence that could help investigators. How did they fail?

[10:10:08] BERMAN: By definition, if you're finding suitcases, if you're finding -- seats and seat cushions that were inside the plane, that tells you that there was some kind of breakup.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

BERMAN: Either in the air or upon impact, correct?

O'BRIEN: Yes. I mean, I don't think many people who know much about aviation would think that this would have remained intact. I think people imagine the Airbus A-320 that landed on the Hudson River with Sully at the controls, but that was -- yes, a deliberate ditching. We're not talking about that.

BERMAN: Obviously not at this point.

Les Abend, OK, we do have this flight data recorder in front of you right now. We know there are two black boxes that they will be searching for and they can by the way trace back when they look at this debris. It gives them a better sense of how to hone in on one specific area, although it doesn't make the search easy by any means. The cockpit voice recorder records all sounds and communications inside the cockpit. Anyone talking inside there. The flight data recorder records what, Les?

LES ABEND: Well, the cockpit voice recorder also records all the transmissions between air traffic control. So they'll, by theory, get two hours of those transmissions and two hours of what you said, all the conversations within the -- in the cockpit. This, the digital flight data recorder, records all sorts of parameters of the airplane. Thousands of them, as a matter of fact, from engine parameters right down to what the ailerons are doing at a particular time, G-loads on the airplane, very specific things that accident investigators will use to say, hey, did we have an explosion? Did we have a structural issue that originated from somewhere in the airplane or did something else occur?

So all those things, those parameters are through the black box. An Airbus is a very sophisticated airplane so it's got a lot of those --

BERMAN: And of course matching the cockpit voice recorder to the data recorder if and when they find both, were they able to find out even more? What the pilots are saying as, you know, what is happening to the plane is going on.

ABEND: There's a program and the NTSB uses that program to coordinate this information with the cockpit voice recorder so you have the transcripts and then also you have what was happening with the airplane in specific terms.

BERMAN: And, you know, and Miles, in this case since it does record two hours of conversations between what's going on, the people in the cockpit and the ground, and this will have everything of value if it is found there. I mean, and there are a limited number of possibilities for why this plane went down, Miles, yes?

O'BRIEN: Yes. I mean, you know, I think Les may quibble with this one, but you know, airplanes don't fall out of the clear blue sky, and so the idea that there was a loss of control event that caused this I think is very low on the list, and I'll let Les quibble with that if he'd like to. So that puts us into the category, the umbrella would be a deliberate act.

And you know, was it a bomb that was placed on there? We've been talking a lot about that this morning. Or was this aircraft, and the evidence still supports this, was it commandeered either by passengers or a member of the crew, and what we saw was in the non-response from air traffic control and then subsequent to that perhaps some signs of struggle in the cockpit. All of that kind of information, cockpit voice recorder will be very crucial in this one but both will help.

BERMAN: The reasons that some suggest that perhaps there was no hostile takeover or struggle in the cockpit is there were three security officers on board that flight that we know of who could have perhaps, you know, gotten themselves in the way of an attempt in the cockpit, correct?

ABEND: And that's exactly what I was going to talk out. I don't see that how -- you know, unless these people were sympathizers with whatever movement, whatever terrorist movement -- BERMAN: Getting way out in front of the evidence right now.

ABEND: Yes. But at the end of the day, you know, there was indications that maybe they were just dead heading home as we do as crew members, but if they were on the airplane, they're going to participate in defending that cockpit and so will the passengers in this day and age.

BERMAN: Miles?

O'BRIEN: Well, you know, I'd love to hear what Les says about this. You know, one of the big vulnerabilities in all these aircraft is on a long flight in particular when the flight crew and the flight deck has to use the restroom. That is outside the security perimeter beyond the secured door, and I know if you've been on a plane, you have seen it. The flight attendant will roll the cart out in front to try to offer an obstacle but you know, that's really a determined person could certainly get beyond that. This is something that should be addressed. It's an Achilles' heel of security. The pilots should be able to relieve themselves without causing a security breach potentially.

BERMAN: Les, a known vulnerability?

ABEND: Absolutely. I mean, and we've developed a complacency with it at times. You know, we've been trained in what to do with that cockpit door. At the end of the day what we're there to do if we do have to, you know, go and relieve ourselves is to make sure that door is not open for a great period of time and some of that, you know, is being in a way compensated by the fact that we're getting a little lax with that. I think crews are getting back into that motion again.

[10:15:04] But, you know, at the end of the day bringing that cart out is sometimes I have mixed feelings about it. It's an announcement, you know, that the crew is about to come out, and, you know, at the end of the day if somebody really knows what they're doing, they're going to get past that cart quickly.

BERMAN: These are just questions that are being asked at this point in the absence of evidence. A lot of questions about what happened to EgyptAir Flight 804. There are now some pieces of evidence being retrieved, literally pieces of evidence. We understand two seats, a suitcase or suitcases, and now human remains from the Mediterranean about 180 miles north of Alexandria. That information just coming in from Greek officials.

Les Abend, Miles O'Brien, thanks so much.

We continue to follow the latest on the investigation into what maybe caused EgyptAir Flight 804 to crash. There are fears that terrorism is involved.

I'm going to speak to a congressman on the Intelligence Committee. We're going to find out what he is hearing. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [10:20:05] BERMAN: The Egyptian military as well as Greek officials now say that debris has been found from Flight 804, and an oil slick from the plane may also have been spotted by the European Space Agency in the Mediterranean.

So much of the focus now on the cause of the crash and whether U.S. travelers should be worried. Is there a connection to terrorism?

To help us answer that question, Georgia Congressman Lynn Westmoreland joins us right now. He is in Atlanta. A member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

Congressman, thank you so much for being with us. I want to ask right off the top. Have you been briefed on this incident?

REP. LYNN WESTMORELAND (R), GEORGIA: Well, the only thing we can really comment on is the open source information that is out there, but we have been receiving some information periodically about it.

BERMAN: Sources have been telling CNN over the last 24 hours that the initial suspicion, the initial theory, the initial belief among U.S. officials is that terrorism was likely involved. This is based mostly on the circumstances, not hard evidence at this point but is that the sense you're getting as well?

WESTMORELAND: Well, you know, from a commonsense standpoint, you know, if something is going wrong with your car, whether it's the brakes or, you know, transmission or whatever, you have a little bit of warning. We had no communications from the pilots about anything, so it does made me think that there was a catastrophic event, that nothing, you know, was heard from the pilots. But the thing that concerns us the most is this is a radical Islamic terror groups and whether it's Daesh or al Qaeda or whoever it is, they have become pretty good at trade craft as far as infiltrating organizations and companies.

And so, you know, Europeans especially, they don't know how many people have gone to Syria or Iraq to join these groups and then come back home. Now the Europeans I'm sure have surveillance or at least suspicions of some of those, but the ones that they don't know that have come back is what concerns me and the fact that they are getting so good at infiltrating, establishing a good tradecraft and we have to be on our toes when it comes to that.

I think we do a fairly good job, a fairly good job of -- with our TSA, but what we've got to worry about because we have hundreds if not thousands of flights coming from Europe in here, and that seems to be kind of the MO of what's happened with some of these planes that are disappearing and crashing, especially over water because being over water, it does erase a lot of the fingerprints that could be on there because, you know, when we get one on the ground such as the one that crashed in the Sinai in Egypt, we were able to reconstruct that.

BERMAN: Congressman --

WESTMORELAND: Yes. BERMAN: Have you seen any evidence at this point? You raise the

speculation that maybe Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris, there had been some level of infiltration there. Is there any evidence you're aware of that that's the case?

WESTMORELAND: No -- no, sir. There's not any evidence of that, but I'm sure they're -- I'm sure they're running every person to ground that had anything to do with that airplane and probably the previous two or three legs of what that trip had.

BERMAN: Congressman, are you concerned that there are vulnerabilities or the same vulnerabilities you're talking about in Europe at U.S. airports?

WESTMORELAND: Well, I do think that since we -- since a lot of the airlines have gone to contracting their -- you know, whether it's their bag service, the food service, the cleaning of the plane, some of those things that I just hope that our airlines are making clearer that when security checks are done on these people, that they're carried out properly, and as you know, the last check we had, we had some criminals that were working at some of these facilities. Even the TSA. So I think we have to do a little bit better on the background checks of these people that actually have contact with the planes that we're getting on and flying every day. We owe that to the flying public and to the crew members.

BERMAN: No question about that.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Vigilance is required all across the board here.

Congressman Lynn Westmoreland, thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate it, sir.

WESTMORELAND: Thank you, sir.

BERMAN: U.S. forces are helping in the search for debris from the crashed EgyptAir flight. Just today two more U.S. Navy planes took off to assist in the search. This is in addition to yesterday's flight.

Right now I'm joined on the phone by Lieutenant Commander Brian Blaschke. He was the pilot of yesterday's flight.

[10:25:06] Commander, thanks so much for being with us. These P-3 Orion flights, tell us -- you know, tell us about your mission, what you saw and what you did.

LT. COMM. BRIAN BLASCHKE, U.S. NAVY: Hi, good morning. Well, yesterday we left Naval Air Station Sigonella and in close coordination with the Hellenic Armed Forces. We conducted today a search in international waters looking for indications or anything that could help pinpoint the location of this missing aircraft.

BERMAN: And while you were there, while you were flying, did you see anything from your flight?

BLASCHKE: We did not. We turned up no results during our mission yesterday.

BERMAN: And we're just getting word over the last few minutes from Greek officials via, you know, the Egyptians who are also heavily involved in this search now that they have spotted, you know, two seats, human remains, as well as a suitcase or suitcases. This area that we're told is about 180 miles north of Alexandria. Is that the rough area where you were searching as well?

BLASCHKE: We were operating in the central Mediterranean and the general vicinity of that area.

BERMAN: how difficult is it, these missions? How difficult is it to see or to spot things on the sea's surface?

BLASCHKE: The difficulty is very dependent mission to mission. There are so many numerous factor such as the sea conditions, the atmospheric conditions, and of course the altitude that you're searching at. Our aircraft allows us to go down very low which help optimizes our ability to search. And last night we had fairly good visibility on station and fairly low sea. So you know, visual search is our primary means for something like this.

BERMAN: Now that debris has been spotted and we believe definitively identified, how much easier will that make the search? Will you be able to put greater focus on future missions, you know, later today and tomorrow?

BLASCHKE: Well, I would have to defer to kind of the mission planning experts that provide search and rescue mission planning services. However, anytime you're able to narrow down a search area, that improves your probability of detection.

BERMAN: How much coordination, direct coordination, are you having now with other nations? Again, you know, Egypt involved, Greece involved, you're taking off from Italy, you know, France heavily involved.

BLASCHKE: I would have to refer you back to the U.S. Sixth Fleet public affairs to talk about those topics.

BERMAN: How long was your mission? How long were you in the air flying over the Mediterranean last night?

BLASCHKE: We flew just under 10 hours last night of which we spent just about six hours actually searching the ocean.

BERMAN: Wow. That's a 10-hour mission, six hours on the ocean. Again, your mission last night did not turn up anything but there is now word that debris has been spotted, including two seats, some suitcases, and some human remains as well.

Lieutenant Commander Brian Blaschke, thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate your time and appreciate your work, sir. BLASCHKE: My pleasure.

BERMAN: All right. Still to come for us, families of those on board, they face now a very difficult reality. We're going to take a closer look at the lives lost.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)