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Egypt Air investigation leaning toward terrorism. Authorities seek black boxes; Trump meets with top lawmakers. Aired 10:30-11a

Aired May 19, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:30:20]

JIM BITTERMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: -- because it was -- the departure -- point of departure was the French airport, and there are 15 French on board. For those reasons, the (French) accident investigators will almost certainly get involved, but they have not gotten a call yet. They're still waiting for the Egyptian authorities to say when and where they should send their team of investigators, likely to be Egypt, one would think. Carol?

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN HOST: All right, Jim Bitterman reporting live from Paris, thank you. We'll break this all down with our experts, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We are following breaking news this morning. The U.S. now joining in the investigation of that missing Egypt Air flight 804. Sources tell us that the U.S. Intelligence Committee is in contact with its French and Egyptian counterparts. Sharing flight manifests and terror watch lists. This coming as the Navy says it's sending a surveillance plane, the P-3 Orion, to help assist in the hunt. That plane already in the region, stationed at the NATO airbase in Sicily. So let's talk about this investigation with Justin Green, an aviation attorney and former military pilot. And CNN's Safety Analyst, David Soucie. Welcome to both of you.

Justin, we were talking in the break how curious it was that Egyptian officials now suddenly believe that it's more likely a terror incident than anything mechanical. Why would they jump to that conclusion? Which is -- I guess it's not a hardcore conclusion by the way they phrased that -- but why would they bring up terrorism without telling us why they think that?

[10:35:45]

JUSTIN GREEN, AVIATION ATTORNEY: Well I think that's a very good question. If they have -- we don't know everything that they know. And presumably they know more than we know. So there may be some fact that they haven't told us yet that supports that conclusion. But also you have to understand that this is an Egyptian national airline. That Egypt has, essentially, an interest in it not being their fault. If it's terrorism, if a bomb got on at Charles de Gaulle Airport, then technically it's not -- you know, the world won't be looking at Egypt like they did after the metro jet disaster, and like we did after Egypt Air 990. So I think you have to kind of, consider the interest of Egypt, it being not something that comes on their shore. And we, in the United States, kind of take for granted that we have a very professional -- and independent, importantly independent -- investigative agency, the National Transportation Safety Board. That isn't the case in every country.

COSTELLO: So David, is it clear in your mind that this is quite possibly terrorism-related?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN AVIATION SAFETY ANALYST: You know, Carol, I was just consulting with some of my associates about that very thing. Because typically the first thing I go for is whether it was mechanical and what kind of functional things happened. Because I have so much faith in the safety system itself. But in this case -- and in the security system -- but in this case, I pretty much ruled out those things. There's nothing in the information we have now -- and as Justin pointed out, presumably they have much more information than we do on their side of the investigation. But it really, pointing that direction in my mind, just simply for the lack of any other type of explanation at this point.

COSTELLO: So you're both pilots, and one of the reasons that they may think this is terrorism, Justin, is the plane took this sharp turn to the left and then a sharp turn to the right, and then it did a complete 360. So as a pilot, what does that tell you?

GREEN: (It says) that the airplane was out of control. The pilots, at that point, were not controlling the airplane. And whether they controlled it to that -- to the point it -- of it going out of control, is something that we'll find out when we get the black boxes.

COSTELLO: All right, I have representative Peter King on the phone. Of course, he's part of the Homeland Security Committee, in the House of Representatives. So welcome, sir, and thanks for joining me this morning.

CONGRESSMAN PETER KING, HOMELAND SECURITY (via telephone): Oh, you're very welcome, thank you.

COSTELLO: What are your thoughts on this?

KING: Again, the indicators are that it's leaning toward terrorism. (It's always they just freak out or jump to conclusions) but if I had to say right now, I would say the indicators are that it is terrorism. And it's essential that we find out exactly -- if it is terrorism -- how it was carried out. Was it (an) insider at the Paris airport, was it somebody who got an explosive onboard?

Again, these are very, very serious issues. (They're) in Egypt, they're dealing with (a) situation in France, right now the French intelligence are very concerned about some sort of spectacular attack coming up. So this is -- again, it's a (baited four we live in) and if it is ISIS, it's -- they have suffered battlefield defeats and they are trying to achieve these spectacular successes to reaffirm that they are number one in the Islamic terrorist world. COSTELLO: We've been questioning airport security at the

international airports, specifically de Gaulle Airport in France. And of course, you know, those planes also come into the United States. How much concern do you have about security, proper security, at international airports?

KING: Yes, I -- it's not -- I've had concern about security at a (romance books and the) insider threats, I mean, there's almost a million employees who have access to the -- (in fact they're) behind the scenes at the airports. Some of the vendors, or airline employees, airport employees, government employees. And in France, the problem would be much more significant -- and at other international airports. Especially in a country like France, where there's more of a hostile Muslim population.

Again, it's -- I'm not putting this on the entire Muslim population, but there are -- as we saw from Charlie Hebdo, as we saw from the attacks in France last November -- there's much more hostility in France. And I know that French intelligence and French security has been worried about the employees there. They try to crack down, they try to tighten up their security measures. But they're still concerned that you have Islamist sympathizers working at the airport.

COSTELLO: And of course, we've been having problems with the TSA here in the United States with not enough agents at security checkpoints and long lines. And when something like this happens, does this heighten your concern?

KING: Yes, well I am (as I said) I'm more concerned about an insider threat at U.S. airports. As far as the lines at the airport, that is more a matter of delay and it's inexcusable. It's not as much as a security issue as I think the insider threats are. However, if you do recall last year, when their -- the Inspector General for the Department of Homeland Security (didn't achieve) the TSA, they found that a lot of dangerous materials were getting through. That has been improved somewhat -- and obviously it's one of the reasons why we have the longer lines now.

Because the screeners are being much more selective -- much more concerned, if you will. And they're stopping more people for the pat downs. But again, we always have to be concerned about explosives on planes. U.S. I would be more concerned about the insider threat than I am about people going through security, you know passengers. But still, that is a threat and it can't be minimized.

COSTELLO: So you're concerned about it -- the possibility of an inside job. But are you satisfied with the background checks that are being conducted on airport and airline employees right now?

KING: It's improved. Several years ago it was very deficient here in the United States. It's been -- it's improved, it's a lot better than it was. It's still not perfect. I've still got some concerns, but not the same (as that) I have several years ago. But again, when you're talking about an enormous -- a million employees, and there's no guarantee that they're all going to be safe. And so I am concerned, but not at all like I was several years ago. The Inspector General that (was brought) several years ago, in his nomination he showed the real deficiencies with our insider threat security. Obviously that's been minimized, but it's still there.

COSTELLO: All right, Congressman Peter King, thanks for joining me this morning, I appreciate it. We'll have more from our expert panel next.

[10:42:25]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:46:25]

COSTELLO: Egypt, France, Greece, and the United States now searching for Egypt flight 804. It went down in the Mediterranean Sea just about 13 and a half hours ago after taking off from the Charles de Gaulle Airport in France. Just as it passed into Egyptian airspace, the plane disappeared from radar. And it's believed the plane did indeed crash. Joining me now to talk more about this is Justin Green, an aviation attorney and former military pilot, and CNN Safety Analyst, David Soucie. Welcome back, to both of you. So David, we were talking about those strange turns that this plane took. The sharp turn to the left, the sharp turn to the right, and then the plane went in a complete circle. What does that tell you as a pilot?

SOUCIE: There's a couple of different things it tells me. And -- but one of them doesn't make much sense. Earlier we were talking about the possibility of a power-on stall or leading to a flat spin. And in a flat spin, one of the reactions you can do is to kick the rudders left and right to become some momentum to allow the aircraft to flip off of its course and get some airspeed over the wings. So that would've thought this, however, what caused that flat spin, typically is weather or some kind of rapid increase in the altitude of the aircraft, that the engines can't keep up with. So I've ruled those out.

At this point it just looks as though the aircraft or the pilots were not able to overcome. Now these are high time pilots, so they are very well trained into reacting to any kind of circumstance. So clearly, whatever happened on that aircraft was beyond ability of those pilots to control it. And beyond the capability of the automation in the airplane to control it. Both of which would be catastrophic and very dramatic.

COSTELLO: And of course, Justin, the plane dropped altitude fairly fast. It went from 37,000 feet to I believe, all the way down to 10,000 feet, and then it crashed.

GREEN: Right.

COSTELLO: What does that tell you, as a pilot?

GREEN: Well I think you have to look in the history of what's happened to other airplanes. Whether it's because of a bomb like TW -- I'm sorry, like Pan Am Lockerbie, or mechanical failure like TW800, Air France 447, American Airlines 587 which happened right here in New York, and was an airbus aircraft. All of those, you had a structural failure for one reason or another. And to me it seems like something like that must have happened.

COSTELLO: Goodness. So the search is going on right now, David. Once they find debris that they're sure belonged to that plane, will they, will they be able to immediately determine if a bomb was to blame?

SOUCIE: Very often they can because the debris that they would find is -- was breaking up. If it wasn't from the impact, if the aircraft has any kind of in-flight explosion, then they're going to find pieces spread across miles and miles of ocean. If the aircraft lost control somehow and was able to land intact or impact intact, then that debris will be all in one location.

So depending on what pieces they find, if there is an explosion of a significant size, which this would have to be, then there is going to be much -- a lot of debris, a lot of explosive residue on those parts. Even the ocean won't wash that off. So there will be some evidence of that right away when they get those pieces, if they're from the explosion area.

COSTELLO: All right, Justin Green, David Soucie, thanks to both of you. I'll have much more after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:54:10]

COSTELLO: The U.S. Navy is now helping search for that missing Egypt Air flight. This is a possible new clue surfaces, according to Greek officials, two floating objects have been spotted near where that plane went down. It's unclear whether those objects are debris, but here's what we do know. 66 people were onboard the Cairo bound flight. Egypt now says it's more likely terror is responsible for the plane's disappearance, than a technical issue.

Authorities say the plane swerved and then plunged during its final moments. Of course we'll continue to monitor this and bring you new details as soon as we have them in to CNN. And we will continue to follow the developments on that missing plane. But we turn now to a growing divide in the Democratic Party. On one side, the so-called "Establishment." Top leaders who want Bernie Sanders to reign in supporters after a chaotic state convention in Nevada. And on the other side, a candidate who insists that "The Establishment" has rigged the process and is vowing to fight on until the very end. CNN's Joe Johns has more on this. Hi Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Carol. The Vice President of the United States, Joe Biden, apparently not ready to join in on the (end) fighting and criticism of Bernie Sanders. In fact, he is keeping with the complimentary tone regarding the campaign, despite the fact that he has said he feels confident Hillary Clinton will be the Democratic nominee for President. Biden also pointing out that at this point in the 2008 race, Hillary Clinton was also still in the race against then Senator, Barack Obama. Keeping with the kind of message that we have seen coming out of the

White House briefing room over the last 24 hours. Here is some of what Biden had to say to reporters while traveling in Ohio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, UNITED STATES VICE PRESIDENT: Bernie Sanders is a good guy. Bernie Sanders is -- I think we should (do love him). I think, let Bernie run in a race. I'm confident that Bernie will be supportive if Hillary wins, which the numbers indicate will happen. And so I'm not, I'm not worried. There's no fundamental split or anything in the Democratic Party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Biden says that when the primaries are over, he expects Democrats to come together, much as they did eight years ago, despite the chaos and anger we saw at that Nevada State Democratic Party convention over the weekend. But he did say that if a similar situation happens again, Sanders will need to step up and be more assertive in dealing with it. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: Well I think what Bernie's going to have to do if that happens again, he's going to have to be more aggressive in speaking out about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: The latest sign that Sanders is planning on hanging in there in this campaign, all the way through California Primary, is that he now says he's accepted an invitation to debate Hillary Clinton on FOX News before voters go to the polls on June 7th. Carol?

COSTELLO: All right, Joe Johns reporting live for us. Thanks so much. Also this afternoon, Hillary Clinton will join Chris Cuomo live. We'll join him one-on-one to talk about Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, and the state of the presidential race. That's coming up today, 1:00 p.m. Eastern, on CNN.

And as the divide grows among Democrats, Donald Trump is continuing his charm offensive with Republicans on Capitol Hill. Trump dispatching Paul Manafort, his top advisor, to Washington. The two will chat with key lawmakers this morning. That meeting comes as Trump weighs in on the missing Egypt Air flight. Our Senior Political Reporter, Manu Raju is following Trump. Good morning.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Good morning, Carol. Now this is all part of an effort by Donald Trump to bring his Party to his side. Of course we saw that he met with Henry Kissinger, (ruling) leader of the Foreign Policy establishment in the Republican Party. And that comes after his meeting with Paul Ryan last week, a very important meeting as well. And phone calls also to folks like Lindsey Graham who I actually just spoke with this morning. And said that, you know, Donald Trump, maybe he could win this race if he believes, if Hillary Clinton were to implode.

And there's a heartening among Republicans because of this new FOX News poll that actually had Donald Trump in the lead by three points. Within the margin of error. Really, it's a (ship), we'll see if that trend continues down the line. But clearly a belief amongst some that he could win. I should add that one of the things that's giving some Republicans, giving -- having them embrace Donald Trump a little bit more forcefully is the divide on the Democratic side. I talked with Democratic Senator Barbara Mikulski last night. The longest serving Democratic woman in Congress -- who told me that Bernie Sanders should drop out of the race. Or she said that the primary should end, ends in June.

A suggestion that perhaps this Party should try to unite before July. And if there's a division, clearly that could help Donald Trump. But the question remains about his foreign policy knowledge, as well. He made that comment about Kim Jong-un earlier this week that raised a lot of eyebrows. And you mentioned that tweet that he put out this morning about that missing airliner. Let me read it to you. He said, "looks like yet another terrorist attack. Airplane departed from Paris. When will we get tough, smart, and vigilant. A great hate and sickness."

Donald Trump trying to project some might on the foreign policy side. Let's see if he brings his folks over on that. But clearly an effort by Donald Trump to bring his Party behind him as Democrats are dividing, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Manu Raju reporting live from Washington this morning. Thanks so much. Of course we'll continue to follow new developments on that Egypt Air plane. Authorities do think it was terrorism related, more so than any technical error. That comes out directly from Egyptian officials. And of course, Egypt, United States, France and Greece all searching for anything from that missing plane, in the Mediterranean Sea. We'll keep you posted all day long.

Thanks for joining me today, I'm Carol Costello. AT THIS HOUR with Berman and Bolduan starts now.

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