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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Democratic Party Unrest; Trump Meets Kissinger. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired May 18, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:14] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

You are looking at some live pictures right now from New York City. Any minute now, in fact, inside a building in that shot is the guy on the left, apparently. A meeting of the minds is expected. Donald Trump sitting down with another GOP establishment figure, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. The face-to-face is just the latest attempt by Trump to ease the tensions in the party that many thought would be dealing with an all-out civil war at this point. But oh how quickly things change in politics.

Suddenly, it is the Democrats who are seemingly on the verge of said civil war. And if you need any proof, last night's primaries. Hillary Clinton squeaking by in Kentucky, gaining a much-need win ahead of the California primary. But in the meantime, Bernie Sanders pulled ahead in Oregon, continuing his West Coast winning streak. Along with his victory in Oregon, Democratic fears, though, of a Sanders rebellion. And they are still echoing from a noisy, noisy weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The future of the country is at stake. That when you boo me (INAUDIBLE), you're booing (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Wow. So that is Nevada's Democratic Convention spiraling into total chaos. Sanders supporters hurling insults at officials like Senator Barbara Boxer. The California senator addressing the convention mess last hour with CNN's Kate Bolduan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BARBARA BOXER (D), CALIFORNIA: I did fear for my safety and I, fortunately, had a lot of security around me. And I did call Bernie a couple of times and he did phone me back last night. And he was - he was very distressed about it. And it was a very warm conversation. And I told him - he expressed shock that his people would do it. I did tell him, the vast majority of those Bernie supporters were sitting in their chairs. They were fine. But there was this group of 50 to 100 people. They were not young people. They were older people. And that he ought to check out to see who these people are. And he said he would.

I expect Bernie to get ahold of this whole situation. That's what I expect from a leader. And Bernie has shown that he's a leader in this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Another person who faced the wrath of the crowd is the head of the Nevada Democrats. Her name is Barbara Lange. And she is still feeling the fallout from that convention because she has been facing vile messages almost every second on social media. She has also had death threats hurled against her and against her family. Lange tells CNN's Carol Costello - and I should say Roberta Lange - telling CNN's Carol Costello that the Sanders campaign has not come out strongly enough to condemn these actions. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTA LANGE, CHAIRWOMAN, NEVADA DEMOCRATIC PARTY: I think he should acknowledge that there were death threats to me, that there were death threats to my husband, that there were death threats to my five-year- old grandson, that they called my work and tried to ruin - you know, this is - like I said, this is my volunteer job being chair. I have a full-time job where single mothers and people trying to pay off their school loans work and it hurt our business. People were calling our business so much that they had to unplug the phone. I think they owe an apology to me and then I can give it to my - the owner of the business. I mean I think those kinds of apologies need to happen and I think they need to recognize that this is not laughable. These are threats to people's lives that are very serious.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So what is the end result from all of this angst and acrimony, a schism between the Sanders camp and the Democratic establishment? Both sides pointing fingers over who is at fault for the current state of affairs.

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REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, CHAIRWOMAN, DNC: When I heard what happened at the Nevada State Democratic Convention this weekend, I was deeply disturbed. You know, regardless of any campaign or candidate's frustration over process, there should never be a but when it comes to condemning violence and intimidation. Violence and intimidation are never accessible under any circumstances and what happened at that convention was unacceptable.

JEFF WEAVER, BERNIE SANDERS CAMPAIGN MANAGER: After a conversation with Senator Reid, he put out a statement after the convention happened. He categorically condemns any kind of threats that went on, absolutely unacceptable. You know, Debbie Wasserman Schultz - we could have a long conversation just about Debbie Wasserman Schultz and how she's been throwing shade on the Sanders' campaign since the very beginning, whether it was the debate schedule that were very few and far between and scheduled on weekends when no one was going to be watching, whether it was the - when they shut off the Sanders access to his own data and we had to sue them in federal court to get it back, or whether it was these joint fundraising agreements with the Hillary Clinton campaign which are taking money away from state parties and sending it to the DNC. And, look, it's not - I've got to say, it's not the DNC. You know, by and large, people at the DNC have been very good to us. Debbie Wasserman Schultz really is the exception.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:05:41] BANFIELD: I want to talk about all of this. Communications director for the DNC is Luis Miranda. He's with us live. CNN political commentator and Bernie Sanders supporter Sally Kohn is with me as well. And Hillary Clinton supporter and Miami Beach Mayor Philip Levine is with us.

Thanks to all three of you.

LUIS MIRANDA, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Sally, I'm going to begin with you because I know that you've been an avid Bernie Sanders supporter since the beginning. But we've now got a grandmother who is worried about her five-year-old grandchild. We've got a woman who says her marriage might be on the brink because of Bernie Sanders' supporters. We have a U.S. senator who just said on live, national television that she feared for her life at a Democratic convention. Where is this going, Sally?

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, OK, first, let me - let me just say one thing. I think it's important to say, which is, I know we in the media often love sort of drama and false equivalencies. In no way shape or form is this akin to what's happening in the Republican Party. There you have leading figures -

BANFIELD: Answer the question. I don't want to talk about the Republicans. I want to -

KOHN: OK, no, I was going to say -

BANFIELD: No, I'm going to the Republicans in about 10 minutes. But I need 10 full minutes to get down on this mess.

KOHN: All right, but I want to say Democrats were -

BANFIELD: It is ugly. It is foul.

KOHN: OK. Well, wait. All I -

BANFIELD: Someone who is fearing for her life.

KOHN: Yes.

BANFIELD: Where is this going?

KOHN: Wait, wait, I'm not defending any of this. All I'm saying is, first of all, that the Democrats remain unified in winning and in our agenda to win in the fall, number one. And I don't want to draw that equivalency. But, number two, look, you're exactly right, Ashleigh, as a - as a Sanders supporter, I have to be honest, it was the sort of bad behavior of the so-called Bernie bros who - and I think Senator Boxer is right when she said it's not a majority, but it is a vocal minority of Sanders supporters. And I witnessed it personally. We've seen it now here in a - in a really ugly form. And - and it's - it's disquieting and awful and horrible and should be unacceptable in any campaign and I would like to see Senator Sanders and his campaign - I would have liked to have seen them doing more to fight back against this from this sort of ugliness and vitriol from the very beginning and I'd certainly like to see them come out more strongly right now. I'm very disturbed by it.

BANFIELD: So, Luis, how far does the DNC go in demanding something more vocal, more vociferous from Bernie Sanders' campaign, and the candidate himself, to decry the disgusting behavior that we just saw play out. And we are continue to see it. I'm telling you right now, that woman in Nevada, every two seconds, says she's getting some kind of foul kind of text message or social message. And this - I don't think - I don't think you're biased to say that that's horrible.

MIRANDA: Well, I completely agree with you and I agree with Sally. Look, this is not the vast majority of Bernie Sanders' supporters. And we certainly recognize that. But I also want to dispute what you said, Ashleigh, this isn't about two sides. You know, we're neutral. The Democratic National Committee is neutral in this race. We've done our best to be fair to both sides, to both campaigns. We're proud of the campaigns that they have run that have been substantive. But when incidents like this do occur, it is incumbent upon us and upon the chair to make it very clear that that type of behavior is unacceptable. And regardless of where it happens, all of our candidates have to - have to make that - that case.

BANFIELD: Luis, did you - has the DNC contacted - look, I get that you're neutral. I get it. I've heard that over and over again as everybody from the DNC is asked about this disgusting melee. But what I want to know is, has the DNC put out overtures to contact Bernie Sanders? Because I think Debbie Wasserman Schultz said she had not. I what to know what the DNC is doing to quell the fire and perhaps demanding that Bernie Sanders really apologize for what's going on and order, demand those people not to do this kind of thing in his name.

MIRANDA: Yes, well she said that the outreach has happened at the staff level. And, on top of that, she's issued, obviously, a strong statement and she's made it clear to both campaigns that we need to make sure that the tone of this primary is focused -

BANFIELD: What does staff level mean?

MIRANDA: It mean now - the chair has not reached out, but we have - we regularly engage with both campaigns, so we're in touch with them on a daily basis. Obviously, I think that both campaigns recognize that there's a much bigger issue here, which is that we have a general election where we have Trump running a campaign that is dangerous and divisive and we need to put the focus on that. And any time that there's some incident like this, it's damaging and it certainly takes attention away from where we should be focused, where I agree with Sally as well, which is on the dangerous and divisive campaign that Donald Trump is running.

So we're certainly focused on running a good primary. We think it's been very strong to date. We think it's great that our candidates have competed and gotten voters out in so many states and that that bodes well for us for the general election -

[12:10:13] BANFIELD: Mayor Levine.

MIRANDA: But we're not going to put up with - with - with any type of violence or threats -

BANFIELD: Yes, that's the language -

MIRANDA: Because it doesn't have a place in our process.

BANFIELD: That's the language I think everybody was hoping for maybe at the top of this statement that was put out by Bernie Sanders yesterday.

Mayor Levine, as a Clinton supporter, you can't be licking your chops at this because, two reasons, number one, there are accusations that the DNC has been rigging things for your - for your candidate and that is uncomfortable to the wider majority. And not only that, Hillary Clinton needs those people. She needs Bernie Sanders' supporters if she were to become the nominee, which is not a foregone conclusion, but she would need them. And this kind of stuff just proves that that may not happen.

PHILIP LEVINE, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: Ashleigh, you know, first of all, what I'm not going to do is I'm not going to tell you the Republican Party is suffering from the Stockholm syndrome right now, so they're completely captive by Donald Trump. So you're not going to hear anything from them as far as what's happening on their side.

But, first of all, I think it's important that say, Sanders people are motivated, they're excited. There is no room for the violence, the threats, but there is a lot of passion there. Senator Sanders has done an amazing job bringing this passion level up and we want to make sure we bottle it and bring it to the DNC in a positive way.

But taking aim at Debbie Wasserman Schultz is like killing the messenger who's trying to be objective, trying to be unbiassed, trying to bring this thing to a close and that's the wrong thing for the Sanders folks to be doing.

Now, as far as the convention is concerned, we're going to see a unity. We're going to see us all come together. There's going to be no room for these roughians (ph) that want to make threats to people. But we love the energy. The energy is going to come with the Sanders campaign. We are going to be unified. Remember something, Secretary Clinton, in 2008, she was still campaigning through June against President Obama. It's OK, but there's no room for this type of violence, these types of threats. But the energy from Sanders is something that we all love, we all want to bottle. We're going to see that in Philadelphia.

BANFIELD: All right, stick around, all three of you, if you will, Sally Kohn, Luis Miranda and Philip Levine.

The math is stacked against Bernie Sanders if you look at the actual facts and the numbers and the results, but he says you'd better not count him out. In fact, Bernie Sanders seems to be stepping up the fight. Will the upcoming California primary, California, all the way to California, will that end up deepening this divide in the Democratic Party or will it finalize results? We're going to talk about that next.

Also, you can watch LEGAL VIEW online at any time. Cnn.com/go. So, go.

Back in a moment.

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[12:16:36] BANFIELD: The California primary is June 7th. So we've got a little time. And Bernie Sanders says he's taking it. He's taking that time and staying in the race, telling his supporters that he is in until the last ballot is cast. There are 475 delegates that are at stake for the Democrats in that state. So, that's what you call a big kahuna. Sanders says that he's going to win them and based on his pervious strong showings in western states, like Oregon yesterday, said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It will be a steep climb, I recognize that, but we have the possibility of going to Philadelphia with a majority of the pledge delegates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Now the most recent poll by Fox News last month shows that Hillary Clinton is ahead of Bernie Sanders by just two points. And just as it's played out in previous states, more younger voters prefer Bernie, more women favor Hillary. Think it through, though, who goes to the polls on voting day?

My panel is back with me, CNN political commentator Sally Kohn, a Bernie Sanders supporter, CNN commentator Bakari Sellers joins me now, a Hillary Clinton supporter, and Luis Miranda is back with us, communications director for the Democratic National Committee.

Sally, I think this is the most often repeated question of the last sort of week or so. Going all the way to California when even if you were to dump all super delegates out of the math, Bernie still isn't winning and many say can't. What makes him think mathematically that he can go all the way to Philadelphia with more pledged delegates?

KOHN: Well, I mean, just because the odds are stacked against him is different than saying she's already won the threshold and it's over. And let's be fair, I mean, she hasn't won the threshold. It is not over. And states continue to - and Bernie continues to win a few states. They're neck and neck in Kentucky. You know, it's sort of - I think it's pretty unfair to the Democratic process and to the name of the Democratic Party to say at this point, well, she looks ahead, so let's just call it. That's not how this works. And this is good for the party. This is good for America. This is good for voters. And, ultimately, it's helping us clarify who we are as a party, what we believe in and will make whoever the nominee is stronger in the fall.

BANFIELD: So, Luis, just thinking about some of these Democratic leaders who hold a lot of sway when they make public comments and answer public questions like the one Dianne Feinstein of California, Senator Dianne Feinstein said when she was asked if she thinks that Bernie Sanders should drop out of the race. She said, I do. I do think so. She did conceded after the voting concludes on June 7th, which is a little different than saying now, which is what others have said. But isn't there irreparable damage done to the party and your options, your chances for November, the longer these primary battles wage and the more scenes we see like we saw in Nevada?

MIRANDA: Not necessarily. At least not - I mean I think what we saw in Nevada shouldn't be replicated anywhere. But in terms of having a primary that goes the distance, that's OK. That's what we saw in 2008. We saw that Senator Clinton, at the time, stayed all the way until the last contest and then, you know, she was the one nominating Barack Obama on the floor of the convention.

So the reality is, is that, for us, it's been good to see an extended primary where the candidates do have a chance to touch voters in a lot of different states, where they do have a chance to campaign, to engage with people. And so we're seeing this as a party-building exercise. We have a unified database which gives us a huge analytical and data edge over Republicans. And as our campaigns reach out to voters and engage them, all of that intel, all of that information is feeding back into the information that we're going to have heading into the general election.

[14:20:20] So, for us, there isn't a problem with that. We're also able to chew gum and walk at the same time. So we're actually already standing up coordinated campaigns with the state. That's why joint victory funds like the one we have are so important because we need to start investing in the general election and building that apparatus, even while we wait for the primaries to conclude. So we feel confident that we're going to have the operation, the infrastructure in place coming out of the primaries, going into the convention, and that we'll be united and that the focus really will return to Donald Trump and the problems that he poses for our economy, for security, and, frankly, for the (INAUDIBLE) country.

BANFIELD: In the meantime, you get these big headlines. You get these big headlines. One from Politico just recently. And the big headline is, "more Sanders staffers exit the campaign." And they're not just any Sanders staffers. As I just fly through it, it's like California. I mean, you know, the operation is Director Paul Bettencourt and constituency outreach director Masha Mendieta. I hope I didn't butcher those names. They were let go last week. These are California. These are leaders in the campaign for Bernie Sanders in California. So is he saying one thing and doing another, Bakari, by saying, I'm going to go all the distance but I've got to let go of my staff there?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN COMMENTATOR: Well, no, I think Bernie Sanders has every intention of staying in the race as long as possible, and I think he should. I think any Clinton supporter who asks him to get out of the race now is being somewhat hypocritical because we all know Hillary Clinton stayed in the race until June 8, 2008, against Barack Obama. She actually won seven out of the last ten primaries in that race and it didn't affect the president much going into November. So I fully anticipate Senator Sanders staying in the race until not June 7th but June 14th, when the District of Columbia gets to cast the last ballots.

But Senator Sanders does have a choice to make right now. He can't afford to be silent any longer when we talk about things in Nevada. He has to be unequivocal. There are no buts the system is rigged. We can't have that. The question has to be, where does his movement go now? I think he has an awesome opportunity to be a leader, not only in the party but in this country. But he has to own that responsibility. And I like - Sally said in the - I stand, like Sally said, in the last statement - in the last segment, hoping that he'll stand up and say, we are not this. We are better than them because bringing this party together is largely incumbent upon him.

BANFIELD: All three of you, I really appreciate the time. And I appreciate your expertise and I think the conversation will continue. Luis Miranda, Bakari Sellers, and Sally Kohn, thanks to all three of you.

MIRANDA: Thank you, Ashleigh.

SELLERS: Thank you.

KOHN: Thanks, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Coming up next, talk about old guard Republican establishment. It doesn't get any more establishment than this guy. Henry Kissinger. He might just be the oldest of the established, in fact. So, what advice could this granddaddy offer today in a face-to- face meeting with the brash anti-establishment, soon to be nominee? That's next.

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[12:27:29] BANFIELD: With another landslide and at least 18 more delegates to add to his credit, Donald Trump is aiming to pick up some foreign policy credentials today with the most famous foreign secretary of state, who's not also running for president. And that would be Mr. Henry - Dr. Henry Kissinger, foreign policy guru to a lot of presidents. Nixon and Ford among them. Currently nine days shy of his 93rd birthday.

He and Donald Trump are due to meet sometime this afternoon here at the offices of Kissinger Associates in New York. And that is just about all I can tell you because there's no other information coming out about it. The news crews are right there. That's a live picture you're looking at. They're waiting on the sidewalk to walk - to see the walk-in, at least.

We do know this week alone, the Republican presidential nominee to be has predicted, quote, "not a very good relationship" with Britain if he's elected president, and then also declared that he would have, quote, "no problem" speaking personally with North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un. Here's what Trump said about that to Reuters.

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DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): I would speak to him. I would have no problem speaking to him. At the same time, I would put a lot of pressure on China because economically we have tremendous power over China. China can solve that problem with one meeting or one phone call.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: The landslide I mentioned came in yesterday's Oregon primary where Trump carried two-thirds of the Republican vote. Keep in mind, Oregon votes may mail. And when the ballots went out, Ted Cruz and John Kasich were still in the race, so people would, you know, vote for whomever is on the ballot, presumably. He collects at least 18 of Oregon's 28 Republican delegates, putting him, by our estimation, 62 delegates shy now of that magic winning number up in the right-hand corner of your screen, 1,237.

Welcome to my panel. Tana Goertz is a senior advisor to the Trump campaign, and former contestant on the Trump reality show "The Apprentice," if she looks familiar to you, Ben Howe is a conservative writer, contributing editor to redstate.com and vehement Donald Trump critic, and Ryan Lizza is a CNN political commentator and Washington correspondent for "The New York Times."

So, Tana, I'm going to begin with you, if I may.

TANA GOERTZ, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISOR: Sure.

[12:29:49] BANFIELD: Wow, you don't get any more establishment than Henry Kissinger. So that was a surprise when we knew that meeting was coming. But Kissinger has been critical of Donald Trump. He's opposed the Muslim ban. He has said he would be more comfy with another nominee. He said glowing things about Hillary Clinton. So I guess the question is, what do you suppose is going to come out of this meeting, things that you can put in headlines, or things that you can't?