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West Virginia and Nebraska Vote; Rubio Talks About Trump During Middle East Speech; Cruz Not Ruling Out Returning To The Race; Trump Trails Clinton Among Swing State Women; Rubio Criticizes Media On Covering Issues; Perry On Trump Debt Idea; London Mayor Hits Back At Trump Over Muslim Ban. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired May 10, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 8:00 p.m. in Damascus, Syria, 1:30 a.m. Wednesday in Pyongyang, North Korea. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

It's primary day here in the United States in West Virginia and Nebraska. Voters there are getting their chance to make a choice in the U.S. presidential election. Republicans in those two states only have one active candidate, that would be Donald Trump.

But two of his former primary opponents are back in the spotlight today. Senator Marco Rubio, he's speaking right now about the situation in the Middle East. We're monitoring that.

Also, senator Ted Cruz. He's returning to his job back at the United States Senate today. We're monitoring that as well.

A reminder, Trump still needs to capture the 1,237 delegates to secure the Republican nomination. Democrats are only battling for delegates in West Virginia today. It may be a very close race between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders there.

Clinton is holding an event in Lexington, Kentucky, by the way, right now. Kentuckians vote in their primary a week from today. Senator Sanders is preparing to take the stage in Stockton, California right now. The California primary is June 7th.

But there are 29 delegates at stake today for the Democrats in West Virginia. Here's how they stand right now. Hillary Clinton has a 301-pledged delegate lead.

Now, let's take a closer look at how Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump match up in some key swing states. The new Quinnipiac University polls show Clinton holding just a one-point lead in Florida and Pennsylvania over Trump, while Trump beats Hillary Clinton in Ohio by four points. The polls also show, by the way, that Bernie Sanders, he beats Donald Trump in all three states.

Here with us right now is Sam Clovis. He's the Trump national campaign co-chairman, I should say. Sam, thanks very much for coming in.

SAM CLOVIS, CO-CHAIRMAN, TRUMP NATIONAL CAMPAIGN: Thanks for having me, Wolf.

BLITZER: Are you expecting any fireworks from Marco Rubio today? So far, he has a -- he's been talking --

CLOVIS: No.

BLITZER: -- about the situation in the Middle East.

CLOVIS: Yes.

BLITZER: Do you expect the formal endorsement of Donald Trump or anything along those lines?

CLOVIS: I think that'll come. But I thought that -- we were listening to Marco together here and I think he was very articulate. He did talk about the -- Mr. Trump's concerns that he's raised about the Middle East. And he said those were legitimate concerns and they need to be discussed.

And I think what really is interesting here is a very calm discussion that Marco was having at the Hudson Institute. It was really interesting to get some of his insights and talking about the fact that there is no culture over there in the Middle East for a particular type of government that we would be recognizing or we would be comfortable with.

And I think that that really speaks to the whole issue of a generational issue. We certainly have the sectarian aspects of this as well. And I think that he's probably on point on that.

BLITZER: Ted Cruz, he's back at work --

CLOVIS: Right.

BLITZER: -- in the U.S. Senate. He says he's holding onto his delegates that he's accumulated so far, not releasing them going into the convention. He did a radio interview earlier today. Listen to this --

CLOVIS: Sure.

BLITZER: -- portion of the interview.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): If there is a path to victory, we launched this campaign intending to win. The reason we suspended the race last week --

GLENN BECK, HOST, "THE GLENN BECK PROGRAM": Yes.

CRUZ: -- is with Indiana's loss, I didn't see a viable path to victory. If that changes, -- BECK: Right.

CRUZ: -- we will certainly respond accordingly.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BLITZER: That was pretty interesting in the interview with Glenn Beck in which he is not necessarily ruling out jumping back into that race if there's an opportunity. Although, he later said that was unlikely.

CLOVIS: I think it is unlikely and because the math is against him. I think that this really still comes down to the fact that we'll capture the 1,237 committed delegates going into the convention, 1,237 puts us over the top. We win the nomination and the rest of it becomes moot.

BLITZER: You think there's a chance he could still decide between now and the convention to throw his hat back into the ring, Ted Cruz?

CLOVIS: I don't think so. I think it's highly unlikely. And I think that if Ted has a future in the Republican politics in this country, I think he'll want to preserve that. And by suspending his campaign and then trying to jump back in before the convention, I think damages his brand.

BLITZER: Look at the new Quinnipiac University poll. Donald Trump, and basically in a dead heat within the margin in error, in all three of these --

CLOVIS: Right.

BLITZER: -- critical battleground states. But there's still a big percentage of undecided voters in all three of that states. Is that a source of concern to you?

CLOVIS: No, not a concern. Actually, I think it's actually a favorable indicator to us. Because I think one of the things we'd have to look at is with undecided voters, typically with these kinds of candidates, we're going to see some crystallization of support as we go forward.

As, you know, you and I were talking off air, we still have two conventions to go, six months until the campaign, three presidential debates. And we'll start to see those undecided numbers dwindle.

BLITZER: Here are some bad numbers for Donald Trump in all three states, women voters. In Pennsylvania, Hillary Clinton is up 51-32. In Florida, she's up 48-35. In Ohio, she's up 43-36.

[13:05:08] He's got to do a lot more work to convince women voters out there, not just Republican women voters or independent, potentially Democratic women voters, that he's good for women in America.

CLOVIS: Well, I think this is a (INAUDIBLE.) I'm glad you asked the question because one of the factors that goes into this is making sure that you have a message to give people a reason to vote for you. And that message is very strong. If you take a look at the internals, Wolf, in those polls, you'll see that the economy is the number one factor. And Donald Trump has a resounding lead in all aspects of the economy.

I think when people, particularly women who are strong in America, strong in the households, they start to see that the security of their lives, the security of their families, the security of their livelihoods and their futures are going to be better guaranteed, better secured by Donald Trump than those numbers will show.

BLITZER: Are you surprised that Bernie Sanders actually does better than Hillary Clinton --

CLOVIS: No.

BLITZER: -- in these head to head-to-head match-ups against Donald Trump in these three battleground states?

CLOVIS: No, and we don't know that much about the sampling. But I'm not surprised. I mean, I -- we've seen so many things in the polls and, you know, it's interesting. I think the numbers are close. We're inside the margin of error on all of these. And I think that we'll have to just wait and see how things fall out.

BLITZER: But you (INAUDIBLE.) You assume it'll be Hillary Clinton, right?

CLOVIS: Well, I assume it'll be Hillary, yes. But we have a long way to go and we'll have to see what happens with the e-mail issues and with the FBI. And Bernie's not done. I think that Bernie may have a good showing today, too, in West Virginia.

BLITZER: Sam Clovis, thanks very much for joining us.

CLOVIS: Wolf, it's always great to be with you.

BLITZER: Sam Clovis joining us from the Trump campaign.

Not everyone is down on Donald Trump's ideas for dealing with the nation's debt. The former Texas governor, Rick Perry, says it's time to consider new approaches.

Perry ran against Trump for the Republican presidential nomination but is now supporting him. Here's what he said on CNN's "NEW DAY" about the debt proposal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK PERRY (R), FORMER TEXAS GOVERNOR: -- having a conversation about a lot of different alternatives out there about how you deal with the debt. And so, you know, having a conversation and then moving it through Washington and getting that to be reality are two different things. So, throwing out a lot of different ideas, I mean, chuck it at the wall and let's see what sticks. I don't have a problem with that. So, I think what people hear, very often, from Donald Trump is that, number one, Washington has fouled this up beyond recognition. I mean, they have really messed our economy up. Let's bring somebody in who does have a record as a business individual.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, let's get some analysis. I want to bring in Mark Preston and Ryan Lizza. Mark Preston is our CNN Executive Editor. Ryan Lizza is a CNN Political Commentator and Washington correspondent for the "New Yorker" magazine.

I want to play a little clip, Rubio speaking about the Middle East. Now, this is the first major address at a think tank here in Washington. But for Marco Rubio at a think tank here in Washington. But early, he said this. Let me just play this little clip talking about the campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a lot easier to say, for example, you know, let's not -- why do we give -- why do we give all this money to NATO and these other people that we're protecting do not? And it's easier to say that than to explain what would happen if you didn't.

And so, that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. I just think it takes time. And, quite frankly, to be fair, today's press that covers this process is not interested in covering any of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A little swipe at the news media which is -- it seems a lot of candidates are saying that nowadays that the news media not necessarily doing a good job.

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I was talking to a senior official from the Cruz campaign, just having a conversation yesterday about what's their explanation for why Cruz couldn't actually win in the end? And he -- his number one reason was Donald Trump's ability to completely dominate the conversation.

And he was very generous. He wasn't criticizing us in the press. But implicit in that is we pay too much attention to Trump. And that, when he's getting 50 percent to 60 percent of the coverage in the primaries, that the other candidates never had a choice.

Now, I think we would say, hey, the invitation for some of those candidates was always open to come on our air and our magazines and Trump was willing to do it and they weren't. But I think Rubio does have a point that Trump's ability to dominate the conversation is significant and Hillary Clinton is going to have to get used to that.

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Right. Yes, but -- you know, and to that point, they were offered day in and day out to come on to talk about their message, to talk about what their vision is for America. In many ways, they chose not to take on Donald Trump. Ted Cruz went after Donald Trump too late. He could have come on and decided to take him on and he chose not to. And this is where he is right now.

LIZZA: And I think Rubio was saying, you know, why don't you cover what I wanted you to cover? For better or worse, the news media covers the campaign as it presents itself to us.

PRESTON: As it unfolds, absolutely.

LIZZA: As it unfolds.

BLITZER: And we did get into substantive policy issues, domestic policy, foreign policy issues, agreements, disagreements, where the candidates stand. And you're right, we invited all the candidates to come on frequently and Donald Trump always used to say yes. Still says yes very often.

[13:10:12] PRESTON: Right.

BLITZER: The other candidates were much reluctant to do so for whatever reason. You worked with all those campaigns, Mark. You can testify to that.

PRESTON: Right, and it wasn't just debates. It was our day-to-day coverage. It was also the town halls. We came out with town halls that gave them extended time to talk about whatever policy issues were important and were pushing through the campaign. Listen, what you have now are candidates who are looking in the rearview mirror and saying, what happened? Why am I not the nominee? And, you know, in many ways, they have to blame somebody. It's easy to blame us.

BLITZER: What do you think of Trump seemingly back and forth on various sensitive issues? One day suggesting something, the next day, moving away from that, whether it is the debt, the minimum wage, whether it's taxes. He's -- increasingly, in the last few days -- he needs to clarify his stance.

LIZZA: Yes. So, my view is a little different on all three. On debt, I think he just made a mistake because it's such a sensitive issue to economists, anyone who --

BLITZER: When he said the U.S. could simply print more money and as a result, doesn't have to worry about a default?

LIZZA: Yes, he just seems to not take seriously the idea of default. And, basically, the U.S. treasuries, the entire world economy is dependent on them. When you can't invest in anything else, you invest in that.

BLITZER: And there would be massive inflation if that were to happen.

PRESTON: Yes.

LIZZA: So, I think he tried to clean it up. I don't think he quite accomplished that. I think on taxes and the minimum wage, he's doing what a lot of smart Republican strategists have been saying for a long time now. If you want to attract, if you want a new middle class economic agenda as a Republican candidate, you've got to do something on wages and maybe look at the minimum wage and increasing it.

And don't be so wedded to upper income tax cuts. The problem is he doesn't have the conservative base locked down. So, to move to the middle or to the left on those two crucial issues, very hard for him because, already, conservatives don't trust him.

BLITZER: Yes, he -- on the minimum wage, he made it clear to me last week, he's made it clear since then, he doesn't think people can live on $7.27 an hour. That's not a livable minimum wage. But now, he's going one step further saying he's open to increasing the minimum wage but let the states do it because there are different, you know, costs of livings, in New York let's say versus some of the smaller states.

PRESTON: It very much fits into his populist message. So, he's a conservative populist. Bernie Sanders is a liberal populist. A lot of people think that their two flavors of populism taste the same and they don't. But they do have overlapping issues. The minimum wage increase would be one of them.

LIZZA: And there are Democratic strategists who will tell you -- I think Dan Pfeifer has said something like this recently. If -- you know, the way to beat a Democrat for the White House is to have more of an economically populist agenda as a Republican. So, I think his instincts are right, in terms of strategy to find those spots. But if you don't have a united party, you can't do it.

BLITZER: Look at how close it is, this Quinnipiac University poll that all of us have been looking at this morning. Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, in terms of the battle for the electoral college, those are three key states. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, in Florida, she beats him by one point, 43-42 percent. In Ohio, he beats her, 43- 39 percent. In Pennsylvania, 43-42 percent. Within the margin of error in all three of these, basically. But it's -- and there's still a lot of undecideds. But that's a lot closer than a lot of people anticipated in these three states.

PRESTON: Well, and we certainly didn't think that he would be the person who would be the nominee, at this stage in the game, if the nominee at all. But one thing though, we talk about populism. Populism plays well in those three states who have been hard hit by the economy. Florida, devastated. The housing market in Florida, it got devastated.

LIZZA: Yes.

PRESTON: He talks about bringing jobs, manufacturing jobs back to Ohio. He says the same thing in Pennsylvania. That's going to play well. The problem for Donald Trump, though, is sometimes he goes a little too far and he says things that could be off putting to some folks. But if he's able to stay on message, talk about bringing jobs back, maybe raising the minimum wage in a way that the business community can accept, then he's going to be formidable.

BLITZER: Here at the Clinton campaign, you've got to be worried about those numbers.

LIZZA: Look, these polls, this piece of evidence that the argument that the Trump campaign makes that they could win the industrial Midwest is real. Now, we've got to wait and I have to look at polling trends (INAUDIBLE.)

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Between now and the election.

LIZZA: But every single national poll with a -- you know, with a few exceptions, he -- she has been clobbering him. This is the first red light on the dashboard of the Hillary Clinton campaign.

BLITZER: But all three of us know, national polls are very important but polls in these battleground states, when you're working to try to get 270 electoral college votes, they're much more important.

LIZZA: Absolutely. I think we're going to be hearing about these Quinnipiac polls with Donald Trump frequently.

PRESTON: Yes. (INAUDIBLE.)

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: (INAUDIBLE) back it up or not.

All right, guys, thanks very much.

LIZZA: Thanks, Wolf.

PRESTON: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Senator Rubio, by the way, will be sitting down with our own Jake Tapper later this afternoon. This will be his first national interview since leaving the 2016 race for the White House. The interview, 4:00 p.m. Eastern on "THE LEAD" right here on CNN.

Coming up, London's first Muslim mayor rejecting a travel offer from Donald Trump. We have details.

Plus, voters are heading to the polls in West Virginia. Hillary Clinton won the state by a landslide back in 2008. Tonight, Bernie Sanders may be able to pull off an upset. Looking at live pictures coming in from West Virginia right now. What has changed, if anything? We'll discuss. Stay with us.

[13:15:05]

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[13:15:00] BLITZER: Pictures coming in from West Virginia right now. What has changed, if anything? We'll discuss. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: It's primary day in West Virginia and Nebraska. Donald Trump now the lone candidate for the Republicans, while Hillary Clinton is still battling Bernie Sanders. But Clinton now has a more clear battle line drawn with Trump over the economy. Trump saying this week he has an agenda of tax cuts on top of his plan to eliminate the U.S. debt.

Joining us now is Gene Sperling. He's a Clinton economic advisor. He's also a former economic advisor to both president's Obama and Clinton.

Thanks very much, Gene, for joining us.

So, what's wrong with reducing taxes, which is what Trump says he wants to do, as opposed to raising taxes, because I think Hillary Clinton's position is in certain key areas for the wealthy she wants to increase taxes.

GENE SPERLING, HILLARY CLINTON ECONOMIC ADVISER: Well, Donald Trump has a plan, no doubt. It is by far the most risky, reckless, and unfair tax proposal we've probably ever seen. And, Wolf, I'll just give you a couple of facts. The Independent Tax Policy Center estimates, and this is hard to get your arms around, your mind around, that his plan would increase the debt by $45 trillion -- not billion, trillion, over 20 years. And he would give more in his tax cuts to the top 1,000ths of Americans. Americans making over $5 million. They would not only get a tax cut of -- of $1.8 million, he would give more to the top one-tenth of one percent than to the bottom 60 percent of all Americans put together.

[13:20:29] That is just extraordinary. And he would have the very top hedge fund managers, the top lawyers, the top real estate dealmakers like himself paying a rate of only 15 percent. They would be paying lower taxes under his plan than middle class people pay today, than many middle class people would pay under his plan.

And so, you know, nobody needs to write about that he's changing positions or flip-flopping. He is sometimes misleading and deceptive, but his plan has stayed steadfast in being an incredibly regressive plan that benefits the most well off millionaires in our country at the expense of middle class and hard working families who are looking for a more fair economy, more shared prosperity.

BLITZER: His plan would reduce the tax rates for virtually everyone going down from 39 percent to 25 percent. Middle class tax rates would go down. Business tax rates would go down. He says that would stimulate the economy. There would be job growth. The economy would -- would boom. More revenue would wind up coming into the government. That's his argument.

And take a look at this because this is the new Quinnipiac University poll. They asked the question, who's better at handling the economy in three key battleground states. In Florida, Trump is better, 54 percent, Hillary Clinton, 40 percent. In Ohio, 52 percent for Trump, 40 percent for Hillary Clinton. In Pennsylvania, 51 percent say Trump is better at handling the economy than Hillary Clinton. She's down at 42 percent. If it's the economy, stupid, as you guys suggested back in '92 when Bill Clinton was running for president, she's got a problem in those three states.

SPERLING: You know, Wolf, you know, with all respect, you're making a big deal out of one poll that's out today. And I'll tell you what we'll be -- we'll be talking about this campaign. You'll have Barack Obama and Bill Clinton out there reminding people that under Democrat administration, you've had the strongest job growth, you've had -- you've had deficits going down, not up. And I think the more people understand Donald Trump's plans, the recklessness you've seen on him flirting with default just this weekend, his cluelessness as to why that could lead to a global meltdown. But then when they see the contrast, Hillary Clinton today in Kentucky talking about child care, kitchen table economic issues that affect whether working families can get ahead, whether women have a chance to both -- have more chances to increase their participation in the workforce, versus Donald Trump, who's out there talking about a tax plan that would lower tax rates for billionaires from 39.6 percent to 15 percent, the most dramatic and progressive (ph) tax plan.

BLITZER: Twenty-five -- 25 percent, 25 percent.

SPERLING: No, no, Wolf, Wolf, let's make this clear, if you get business income, our partnership income, which most of the well-off American people in our country do --

BLITZER: But we're talking about basic income. Basic income, it goes down for --

SPERLING: It is 15 --

BLITZER: Basic incomes comes down from 39 to 25.

SPERLING: Fifteen -- no, Wolf. No, Wolf. No, Wolf. For people who make the most money, corporate lawyers, hedge funds, they get partnership and escort income. And, Wolf, that would go to 15 percent. So if you want to accurately report what he is offering to the most well off Americans, like himself, it is lowering the tax rate all the way to 15 percent. It is the most --

BLITZER: So, bottom line, why is he doing better according to this Quinnipiac University poll than Hillary Clinton is on the economy?

SPERLING: You know, Wolf, I'm a -- I'm kind of a policy guy, not a pollster, but I saw a poll that had her even in Georgia and up around the country 10 or 12 percent. And I think that as people come to understand her plan, they're going to realize, she is the one who is championing middle class family every day, child care, talking about lowering college costs, paid family leave, a jobs plan that focuses on infrastructure, manufacturing, modernizing and renovating energy efficiency in our country, versus Donald Trump, who has -- who blusters around and shifts position. But when you look at the black and white, on the page of his proposals, they are offering $3 trillion to people who make over $1 million.

Just one last fact, Wolf. The amount of money that Donald Trump gives in his tax plan to people who make over a million dollars would be enough to make Medicare and Social Security solvent for the next 75 years. That's quite a value choice that he is making in terms of the most well off, the most fortunate, the most well connected, versus the middle class, who's been struggling, even in a stronger economy has been struggling for years and years to see the type of shared prosperity and wage gains since the year 2000 that they deserve and need.

[13:25:19] BLITZER: Gene Sperling is an economic advisor to Hillary Clinton, former economic advisor to both presidents Clinton and Obama.

Gene, thanks for coming in.

SPERLING: Thank you very much, Wolf. Appreciate it.

BLITZER: Thank you.

Coming up, Bernie Sanders holding a rally right now in California, all while voters in West Virginia could give him a potential boost tonight. So why isn't he there? We're going to talk to his campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, when we come back. There he is. Jeff Weaver is standing by live.

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