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Trump and Ryan; Paul Ryan Interview; Cadets Photo Sparks Inquiry. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 9, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:26] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go on this Monday afternoon. Great to be with you. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN.

And as the only Republican candidate still standing, Donald Trump is poised to win tomorrow's primaries, both in Nebraska and West Virginia. His real head to head challenge is actually this week, this Thursday. That is when the presumed Republican nominee is due to meet with House Speaker Paul Ryan. Speaker Ryan rocked the political world when he said he's just not ready to support Donald Trump for president. He broke that news with Jake Tapper just a couple days ago. But Mr. Trump's strongest supporters are apparently ready to play hard ball. Former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin says she will work to unseat Speaker Ryan in Wisconsin. Here's what she told Jake Tapper on "State of the Union."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: His political career is over, but for a miracle, because he has so disrespected the will of the people. And, yes, as the leader of the GOP, the convention, certainly, he is to remain neutral. And for him to already come out and say who he will not support was not a wise decision of his.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Ryan told a Milwaukee paper that he would step down as chairman of the Republican National Convention if Trump asked. By the way, we're talking to one of the reporter who talked to him in mere minutes to see what some of the headlines from that meeting. Trump hasn't actually made the request. Let's be clear. And today he also distanced himself from Palin's threat. But, Donald Trump did remind Republican leaders of what his unprecedented nomination really means.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): I mean I've received more votes than any person ever to run in the Republican primary. So, I have people that I'm representing. They're unbelievable people. They're loyal. They're smart. They're sharp. They're tired of being abused. They're tired of not having increases in their wages for a period of 18 years. So I represent a very important group of people and a powerful group of people. These people have to be treated with respect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me bring in CNN political director David Chalian in Washington.

Nice to see you, sir.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Good to see you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We will get to some of your notes - we'll get to some of your notes ahead of this Trump-Ryan meeting on Thursday. But, you know, to what Mr. Trump just said, his point that he makes over and over about how he has gotten, you know, millions of votes from Americans. They should be treated well. And I know we hear Paul Ryan talk about, you know, the party is not unified. But what about Trump's point, why not have the establishment Republicans come to him?

CHALIAN: Well, listen, some of them are, right? I mean we've seen Bob Dole, others who have been resistant to get on board the Trump train throughout the nomination process who are starting to come around to him. But, listen, this is not about who's holding their line and who - the party, if it wants to win the White House back after the Obama years, is going to have to find a way to come together or they're going to put themselves in a really tough chance of winning the White House. Donald Trump knows that. Paul Ryan knows that.

And, listen, Donald Trump is right that he has those voters, but he also knows, otherwise he wouldn't be meeting with Paul Ryan, that he does need to bring some more of the Republican base on board with him. This was a bruising nomination season. We saw this party really stretching itself at the seams and potentially coming apart several times throughout this process. We talked about it all season long.

BALDWIN: Right.

CHALIAN: So it should be no surprise that it can't just sort of flip a switch and sing Kumbaya.

BALDWIN: Right.

CHALIAN: It is going to take some time and both sides need a unified party.

BALDWIN: OK. So pre-Kumbaya moment, let's hone in on, you know, this meeting between Speaker Ryan and Donald Trump this Thursday. And we asked you to come up with sort of three specific areas where these two men really don't see eye to eye, beginning with Trump's plan on taxing the wealthy. So recently he clarified. He is not putting more taxes on the wealthy, but the wealthy will get more taxes than others under his plan. Walk me through that.

CHALIAN: Right. So immediately he caused some concern in conservative circles when it sounded like he was walking away from his notion that he was going to raise taxes on the wealthy. He has been working in the last 24 hours on Twitter, on "New Day" this morning to try to clarify that and saying no, no, no, guys, I'm just - I'm just saying, I'm starting from a really aggressive negotiating position and indeed if I have to cut their taxes by a little less than I was planning, then they're going to pay a little more. But he said again, just moments ago on Twitter, that the wealthiest Americans are also going to pay less in taxes.

Well, guess what, as he's trying to clean this up with the Republicans, Brooke, the Clinton campaign was out with a conference call immediately with two top advisers to Hillary Clinton to sort of slam Donald Trump -

[14:05:06] BALDWIN: Yes.

CHALIAN: As saying that he is doing more for millionaires and billionaires than any presidential candidate in history. So just as he's trying to clean up and make sure the Republicans stay unified, he's taking it from the left on Hillary Clinton.

BALDWIN: What -

CHALIAN: Another - yes, sorry, go ahead.

BALDWIN: Minimum wage? Sorry, I'm just moving on to minimum wage.

CHALIAN: Yes. Yes, exactly. So, Donald Trump has been in a couple different places on minimum wage, whether or not he believes there should be a state issue and not something for the federal government to deal with or indeed maybe he's open to raising the federal minimum wage. Paul Ryan has been clear in the past that he does not want to see an increase in the federal minimum wage, so that is another economic area where they - where they do not get along.

BALDWIN: And, finally, and this is something that we know Paul Ryan spoke about that is, you know, against his core personal beliefs, this ban on Muslims.

CHALIAN: Right, which Donald Trump has asserted that proposal's going nowhere. He expects to put it in place in his first 100 days in office if he's elected. So I don't see a way for them to sort of come to terms on this particular policy prescription. But, to me, when Paul Ryan spoke about this, Brooke, many months ago, after Donald Trump proposed it, he also broadened out his comments about tone overall and I have a feeling that is going to be a part of the conversation as well on Thursday. When you talk to folks on Capitol Hill, they want to make sure that Paul Ryan and Donald Trump have a common understanding, sort of the tone and tenor of this campaign going forward beyond just the policy prescriptions.

BALDWIN: What do you mean, just quickly, do you think that Paul Ryan will have suggestions for Donald Trump as far as how he should move forward tone-wise?

CHALIAN: I think they're just going to probably, as Paul Ryan said today to a local newspaper in Wisconsin, get to know each other a little better, find out where they're coming from. I'm not suggesting Paul Ryan will have suggestions for him, but I think he wants a better understanding of where he's coming from so that when the rhetoric does get a little heated, at least there's a relationship already and they can get on the phone with each other.

BALDWIN: Interesting. All eyes on Thursday. Mr. Chalian, thank you so much.

CHALIAN: Sure, thank you.

BALDWIN: We will be talking, of course, I'm sure through the week.

Meantime, minutes after Donald Trump heard on CNN that Paul Ryan was not supporting his candidacy, this is from a couple of days ago, Trump called this man. He picked up the phone and called Republican National Committee Chair Reince Priebus and now we know Priebus will be at Trump's meeting just three days from now with the House speaker.

So let me bring in CNN global economic analyst Rana Foroohar, who is also assistant managing editor at "Time," Boris Epshteyn, Republican strategist who is supporting Mr. Trump, and Kevin Sheridan is back with us today, former senior advisor to Mitt Romney's 2012 presidential campaign and former RNC spokesman.

So welcome to all of you.

BORIS EPSHTEYN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST WHO SUPPORTS TRUMP: Thank you.

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMICS ANALYST: Thanks.

BALDWIN: And, Boris, let me just turn to you. Now that we know - all right, we kind of had an idea Friday that it would be Ryan and Trump. But now we know Reince Priebus will be part of this big meeting on Thursday. How do you think his presence might alter the dynamic of this meeting?

EPSHTEYN: I think it's a positive. Reince is someone who was hesitant to get on board with Trump but stayed neutral throughout the nomination process. He ran the debates. You saw him speaking before each debate and saying, we have a lot of great candidates. Let's be respectful, have good discussions. Then, once it became clear that Donald Trump is the presumptive nominee, Reince was out there tweeting within minutes, I think, once Ted Cruz dropped out, saying, let's coalesce behind Donald Trump. So it's unquestionably a positive that Reince Priebus, the chair of the RNC, will be at the meeting between Paul Ryan, who's very respectful, and Donald Trump, who's looking forward to the meeting.

BALDWIN: Kevin Sheridan, to you, also as someone who worked as chief coms for Paul Ryan when he was, you know, on the Mitt Romney ticket just a couple of years ago, you're the perfect person to ask as well. You know, is there a possibility that come Thursday, and who knows what these gentlemen will all discuss, that Paul Ryan walks away thinking, there's no way I can support this man for president?

KEVIN SHERIDAN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, ROMNEY FOR PRESIDENT: I don't think I'm ready to speculate exactly on how that's going to - how the outcome of that meeting is going to be determined. But I think they should both go into it with good intentions. You know, I think it - it would be nice to hear Donald Trump say that he - he does want conservative support. He does want the help of the House, you know, caucus and the speaker of the House.

And I think if, you know, if Paul Ryan goes in with an understanding that, obviously Donald Trump has, you know, he has 10 million votes and he's got an important constituency, but the policies might not ever align perfectly, that there could be some common ground to - to reach. And we'll see how, you know, that meeting goes. We'll see, you know, reports back from it. Reince Priebus being in it, I think he's - you know, he's close with Paul Ryan as well and - and - and he's played a pretty neutral part so far, a pretty good job at the RNC and I think Donald Trump is - respects him. So I think that, you know, it could - it could potentially be a good meeting.

BALDWIN: OK, potentially be a good meeting. I'll let you go with that just for today.

Rana, turning to you. Let me move on to what Trump said today about debt.

FOROOHAR: Yes.

BALDWIN: This was on "New Day." Roll the clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): If we can buy back government debt at a discount, in other words, if interest rates go up and we can buy bonds back at a discount, if we are liquid enough as a country, we should do that. In other words, we can buy back debt at a discount. People said I want to go and buy debt and default on debt and - I mean these people are crazy. This is the United States government. First of all, you never have to default because you print the money. I hate to tell you. OK. So there's never a default.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:10:14] BALDWIN: OK, now I know what you're going to say, but you know that there are people in this country that say, that makes total sense. We print the money. Why not?

FOROOHAR: Yes, that's -

BALDWIN: Explain why not.

FOROOHAR: OK. Well, here's why not. The U.S. government runs a federal deficit. We have to keep issuing debt just to pay down our debt. So if you have any kind of worries about the U.S. government defaulting, borrowing costs go up. And we actually have a historical precedent of how much this can end up costing taxpayers.

So back in 1979, because of a brief bookkeeping problem, if you can believe it, the software had a glitch, we actually ended up dealing a debt payment of $120 million for a little while. That cost U.S. taxpayers $12 billion. BALDWIN: Oh!

FOROOHAR: Over time because our borrowing costs went up. That's what we're talking about here. We're talking about being like Zimbabwe, you know, printing money. That's a crazy idea.

EPSHTEYN: Hold on.

BALDWIN: I'm watching your face looking at her.

EPSHTEYN: (INAUDIBLE) -

FOROOHAR: I know he's going to disagree.

EPSHTEYN: The printing money was a side comment, right?

FOROOHAR: Uh-huh.

EPSHTEYN: He said, we're not going to default because that's what we could do. The main point he's making actually does make a lot of sense.

BALDWIN: What's the main point?

EPSHTEYN: And it's saying that we're not going to default, but if gen the opportunity, we're going to buy back the debt and have longer term, lower yield debt. That's something that both - both of us know from business is just good practice. I mean if you could do it. If you can lower the rate you're paying on debt, why wouldn't you do so? If you could do it -

FOROOHAR: This is -

EPSHTEYN: If you want to do it on your house, you can do it on your house? Why can't we do it as a country?

FOROOHAR: I got to - I got to respectfully disagree because the corporate bond market - junk bond logic is not the same as what happens in the sovereign debt markets. OK, the U.S. is the - the federal - is the currency of last resort. It is a reserve currency. Any kind of shakiness about U.S. ability to pay back its debt, any kind of worry about that can cause all kinds of ripple effects.

EPSHTEYN: But this isn't -

FOROOHAR: It's - it is - it is impossible to say that you can apply this logic that you might apply - apply to a junk bond deal to dealing with the federal government instead.

EPSHTEYN: And I will respectfully disagree in turn, which makes for a good discussion. So, from our perspective, from the Trump perspective, if you, as a country, are saying, we have the opportunity to lower the rates, not saying we can't pay, you can pay but you take advantage of a good opportunity, just like you would in a business deal or a foreign relations deal, anything. BALDWIN: Right, right, no, and you say in a business deal. And, Kevin,

I want to just bring you into the conversation where, you know, even though you're in Washington, you're a third of this whole thing. And what I'm wondering is, you know, unlike so many others who have sat in the Oval Office, you know, this is a man who's coming at it with boardroom experience. Everything is negotiable. He's, you know, you - one would say flip flopping, one could say he's flexible. How do you see this?

SHERIDAN: Well, he's given himself an out card on virtually any policy. He could say that, well, that was just a negotiating position that I was starting out with. So in that regard -

BALDWIN: Do you buy that?

SHERIDAN: Well, it's not for me to buy. It's for - we'll see - we'll see if he can get away with that over time. It does put him in a very unique position, though, because -

EPSHTEYN: (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: He's being very -

EPSHTEYN: Kevin is - Kevin -

BALDWIN: He's a smart man. I know Kevin.

EPSHTEYN: Kevin's walking a thin line here. And I'm really enjoying this from my perspective.

FOROOHAR: Kevin. Come on, Kevin, what do you really think?

EPSHTEYN: Kevin, this is great. I love it. No, no, completely seriously.

BALDWIN: Continue, Kevin. We're with you.

SHERIDAN: Look - yes, I - he's - he's in a unique position. He's - he occupies a space that no other modern-day politician does. And he's able to kind of get away with more things and - than most. So - and this is just another one of them.

BALDWIN: OK. Kevin, well done. Well done.

EPSHTEYN: (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: We'll talk to you all later on this week. Kevin, Boris and Rana, thank you so much.

EPSHTEYN: Thanks so much.

FOROOHAR: Thank you.

BALDWIN: It's just important to explain where he is and his positions. This is the man who could be president. Coming up next, just in, Paul Ryan responding to Trump, saying he might remove the speaker of the House from the convention. The man who has the gavel. We'll talk to the man who just interviewed the speaker at the center of this civil war.

Also ahead, Trump says Hillary Clinton enabled, that was the word, enabled Bill Clinton's infidelity. But there is tape that shows Trump had a very different opinion not too long ago. We will pull that for you.

Also, it is a picture that has everyone talking. Have you seen this? West Point cadets have gone through a tremendous four years there, in New York, raising their fists. What were they trying to say? I can tell you they're being investigated, if that's even the right word. Did they break the rules? We'll speak live with one captain of the U.S. Air Force. One of few African-American women to have graduated there who knows this women. Her perspective, coming up.

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[14:18:15] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.

House Speaker Paul Ryan breaking his silence on Donald Trump, speaking today to a newspaper in his home state of Wisconsin. Speaker Ryan now says if Trump asks him to step down as co-chair of the Republican Convention this July in Cleveland, that he will respect the wishes of the presumptive nominee. Speaker Ryan is also telling the paper that a third party run would be a disaster for the Republican Party.

So let's just talk to one of three people in the room here. Christian Schneider, a columnist with "The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel," one of those who just interviewed Speaker Ryan today.

Christian, excited to talk to you. Welcome.

CHRISTIAN SCHNEIDER, JUST INTERVIEWED PAUL RYAN: Hey, thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: All right, so the headline, we just mentioned it, what exactly did Speaker Ryan say about, you know, we know he's meeting with Mr. Trump this Thursday and what Mr. Trump has said about whether or not he wants him as the, you know, co-chair of this convention, you know, with - the guy with the gavel. What did he say about that?

SCHNEIDER: Yes, we asked him very specifically whether he - whether he would step down as chairman of the - of the convention if Donald Trump asked him to and he said, you know, Donald Trump is the - is our nominee and it's his convention, so I'll do whatever he asks of me, which is, I think, kind of newsworthy.

A lot of people, of course, now on Twitter thinking that's almost an invitation for Donald Trump to disinvite him from taking part in it. So, yes, that was - that was pretty newsworthy.

BALDWIN: It's not kind of newsworthy, it's very newsworthy. I'm just curious - I'm curious, since you were sitting and looking at him face to face, his tone when he answered that.

SCHNEIDER: You know he - he seems to be in good spirits. He was here over the weekend spending time with his family, with his wife for Mother's Day, so I think he's - he's very relaxed. He was upset he didn't get to watch "Game of Thrones," but he has it DVR'd. So he - no, he seems to be in good spirits. He's not - he's not depressed and he was - he was laughing and joking along. So I think he's - he's doing just fine.

[14:20:14] BALDWIN: OK, well, I'm glad to hear he's not totally caught up on "Game of Thrones," but let's just stay - let's stay on point here because I've got - I've got more questions for you that are maybe a little bit more germane to where we are politically. So also we know that Ryan is very close with Mitt Romney for obvious reasons and so Mitt Romney -

SCHNEIDER: Yes.

BALDWIN: That's a name that's been floated as a potential, you know, third party candidate. What exactly did he say about the thoughts of a - of a third party candidacy?

SCHNEIDER: Well, I started to ask the question, you know, you know, Mitt Romney's been in the - in the news lately and before I could even answer he - or finish the question, he said, you know, I think a third party candidacy would just be a disaster for the party. He wouldn't - he wouldn't support any third party candidate. And I said, well, you know, you remember at the very beginning of all of this when we all thought that Mitt Romney might actually run along with the, you know, 17 other people that ran, Paul Ryan said he would have endorsed him. So I said, you know, even if Paul - if Mitt Romney is the - the candidate? And he said, you know, not even if Mitt Romney is the candidate.

BALDWIN: Before I let you go, he did give Donald Trump credit, for what exactly?

SCHNEIDER: He gave him credit for - for winning the, you know, the nomination. He said it's been a tough slog. He's been through a lot. And he also said that Donald Trump would have a better Supreme Court nominee than Merrick Garland. So there was that olive branch as well.

BALDWIN: Christian Schneider, columnist, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Great get.

SCHNEIDER: Yes, thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Coming up next, the graduation photo that is prompting an investigation now at West Point. A group of female cadets posing with fists in the air. The photo generating all kinds of backlash. Why some say it goes too far. What do you think? You be the judge here. We'll have a discussion.

Also, the fight for women voters is heating up. Moments from now, Hillary Clinton is taking her pitch to Virginia. Will she respond to Donald Trump's latest attacks saying she enabled her husband's infidelity? Stay tuned.

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[14:26:44] BALDWIN: Sixteen seniors at West Point Academy, all young, black, female cadets, ready to celebrate their upcoming graduation, but now they're under scrutiny for posing in a group photo that has sparked a social media firestorm. Let me show you the photo in case you haven't seen it. Here these ladies are participating in a West Point tradition for seniors to take a photo in front of this historic campus building. But if you look closely here, what you see is the ladies posing with their clinched fists raised in the air. Critics are quick to point out that they're evoking the Black Lives Moment movement, that they're in violation of military rules for political activity, but supporters say, hold on, that is not at all what's happening. Women are just standing united.

With me now, Captain Trier Bryant, a former combat vet in the Air Force, a 2006 graduate of the United States Air Force Academy. She's now the head of university recruiting at Twitter. And when she learned of the controversy she tweeted more like #blackgirlmagictomeladiesstaystrong.

Captain Bryant, you also recently met some of these ladies. So we'll get to all of these threads. But, first of all, thank you so much for your service and thanks for joining me.

CAPT. TRIER BRYANT, 2006 GRADUATE, U.S. AIR FORCE ACADEMY: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So this -

BRYANT: Happy to be here.

BALDWIN: This is personal for you on a multitude of levels beginning with the fact that, you know, even with you at Air Force, what, there were - you were one of eight young, black women in that class, six of whom who graduated. Do you know what it feels like to be underrepresented as an institution like this?

BRYANT: Absolutely, Brooke. You know, when I started at the Air Force Academy in 2002, there were eight black females in our class that started basic training and only six of us actually made it to graduation in 2006, to walk across that stage. And so when I first saw the photo, I was not only proud, but I actually looked at the photo and said, wow, what an accomplishment that in the photo it's 16 of the 18 black females in this year's graduating class at West Point to make it through and to have that type of success.

BALDWIN: Did you even - did you even notice the fists at first? Or was it more just the sheer number of women, black women graduating?

BRYANT: So, I will say that to an unfamiliar eye, not familiar with the, you know, the academy, the culture, one could, you know, associate that with aligning with a cause or a political movement. But let's remember, Brooke, that we are talking about the top 1 percent of students that go to the service academies and these women have been through four years of leadership training, academic training, both physical and mental training. So they know what they're doing. And they know the rules and the regulations.

I don't think that this was any type of political view or movement. But I do understand the academy taking a look at, you know, the photo and maybe having a conversation. Could it perhaps have been a poor lapse in judgment? Perhaps. But enough to prevent these women from graduating on May 21st? I don't think so.

BALDWIN: What do you think, if that is even a question after they have endured the rigors of West Point for four years, what do you think they must be feeling knowing that even that the slimmest of chances that they can't walk?

[14:29:55] BRYANT: You know, not only - you know I can't imagine what they're feeling, but their families. Remember, also, this isn't just about them going through this for four years, but also their families. The families and friends that have made arrangements and have been supporting them for the four years, to know that this is in limbo.