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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Kasich to Suspend Campaign. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired May 4, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:24] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking new

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

We're going to begin with this breaking news. Sources say that John Kasich is dropping out of the presidential race. John Kasich, the last against Donald Trump, calling it quits.

Phil Mattingly joining me live on the phone now. He's covering the Kasich campaign today.

Your sources telling you this is it, he's calling it quits.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): That's right, Ashleigh. And, look, this is a shift over the last 12 hours after John Kasich very clear last night, even in the wake of Ted Cruz's decision to drop out, that he was going to stay in the race if for no other reason than to offer some alternative to Donald Trump, now deciding to drop out of the race. And to tell you how kind of recent this decision was, John Kasich was actually scheduled to have a press availability at Dulles Airport on his way down to Virginia for a series of fundraisers today. Those were all scheduled. The plane never left the airport in Columbus. John Kasich has decided to drop out of the race. He is not coming to Virginia. I'm actually racing to the airport right now to head up to Columbus where John Kasich will make a speech at 5:00 p.m.

And, Ashleigh, this is - will bring an end to a campaign that a lot of people have been questioning why it was still going on. He was trailing Donald Trump by more than 900 delegates. He was lagging in fundraising. He was essentially, after Ted Cruz dropped out, fourth in a two-man race. But for Kasich, this was an experience that he acknowledged throughout his campaign really had changed him as a person and changed him as a politician. And I think even up until probably this morning, there were moments where he wanted to stay in. He felt like he provided the challenge to Donald Trump, a candidate that he has stated publicly he's uncomfortable with. He doesn't believe represents the real views of the Republican Party.

I think reality just started to set in, Ashleigh, and there's no shortage of reasons why to drop out, but one of the primary ones was probably money. He has not had a lot of money. Over the last couple of weeks, his campaign's really been operating on a shoe string budget. That was starting to catch up with them. Obviously he had a bunch of fundraisers scheduled over the next couple of days. But in the end, looked at the math, looked at the map, and recognized that Donald Trump is going to be the Republican nominee. And with that known, John Kasich is now going to step aside, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Phil, stand by for a moment, if you will. A source telling our Sara Murray that Kasich was actually at that airport in Columbus about to fly to Washington for fundraisers when he had a change of heart this morning, briefed by his senior advisors, back and forth. They discussed this decision.

I'm joined now by Sara Murray on the set.

I suppose when you looked at last night's coverage and saw every analyst on all the networks saying, the man is running fourth in a two-man race. It is an inevitable decision that would have had to be made. There was no mathematical way. I'm not sure he had that kind of ground work, that built up delegates for any kind of second vote. What were we all waiting for? What was he waiting for?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, right. I mean, and I don't think he was necessarily even doing it at this point because of the math or because of the delegates. He said, you know, at one point he thought about dropping out after these, you know, mid-Atlantic states voted and he kind of got creamed in those contests and he talked to his wife and she said, you should give people a choice. Their whole point of staying in the race was to offer this alternate narrative.

And, you know, when I was talking to sources they were saying, he was actually at the airport. He was going to go to D.C. He was going to set off on this sprint of fundraisers and try to stay in the race for longer and get his message across. And they just realized that it was not possible to do it. He realized it was - it was not feasible to stay in the race at this point. He briefed his senior aides and ultimately that airplane never took off from the airport. They decided to stay in Columbus. And today he'll make that announcement to drop out.

I think the other thing we have to remember when it comes to Kasich is, the convention is going to be in his home state of Ohio, where he is still the sitting governor. And, Ashleigh, that's a little awkward. John Kasich is going to have to -

BANFIELD: Yes. A little? A little?

MURRAY: A little. It's very awkward.

BANFIELD: Guess what else is awkward, the question he's going to get from every single person who crosses his path, so does that mean you're going to throw your support and your endorsement behind Donald Trump?

MURRAY: Right.

BANFIELD: What's the expectation? MURRAY: And are you going to go to the convention? And can you even

skip the convention if you are the sitting Republican governor and it's in your home state? And I think it will be interesting to see how he navigates all of that in his statement tonight.

BANFIELD: Got a couple of months for the wounds to heal, but the backing, again, because such a big story that's developing today at rapid paces. Who's going to back Trump? There's still a ton of haters. The never Trump folks have changed it to never ever.

MURRAY: Well, and for John Kasich I think this was also a personal evolution in Trump. You know, he sort of started out and was careful not to be very critical of Donald Trump. And one of the tipping points was really when we saw all of that violence break out when Donald Trump was holding the rally that he cancelled in Chicago. You know, aides told me John Kasich was watching this play out and he was sad and he was fearful for what direction our country was going in. And I think that's something that kind of lingered in the back of his head as he watched Trump escalating his rhetoric, as he watched this violence escalate. And that was another part of the reason that he stayed into the race. And like you said, it takes a while to heal these wounds and we'll see if that is ultimately what happens for the Republican Party.

[12:05:17] BANFIELD: All right, Sara Murray, great work, along with Phil Mattingly, getting your sources to confirm that so quickly. We appreciate it.

Our Jake Tapper, chief Washington correspondent and host of "The Lead" joins me live now from D.C.

When the RNC puts out a statement saying that it's time for unity, it's time for people to coalesce behind Trump, when you're still in the race, that's also got to be something weighing heavy on his heart when John Kasich made this decision.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Sure, but I think what weighed heavier was the fact that he needed 240 percent of the remaining delegates in order to become the nominee, and that's just mathematically impossible. Plus, with Ted Cruz bowing out, realizing that Donald Trump was going to be able to get the 1,237 delegates, the majority likely before the convention, the writing was on the wall. There - it wasn't going to be a contested convention. And there really was no reason, and no imperative for him to stay in the race. There was nothing awaiting him at the end of this train line. Donald Trump will be the Republican presidential nominee, and this is because the voters wanted him.

BANFIELD: And I think, Jake, you know, this big news aside, there was even bigger news just before this happened, and that was that a billionaire with no connection to politics effectively just took over the Republican Party, all the while criticizing it, calling the process rigged. I mean, you can't understate the success of Donald Trump. All the while Hillary Clinton still hasn't, you know, sewn up her nomination. Who'd have thunk he'd have done it before she did? TAPPER: It's even more shocking than that, Ashleigh, because he isn't

a billionaire with had no connection to politics. He's a billionaire who had given hundreds of thousands of dollars to both Republicans and Democrats, including to Hillary Clinton, just in 2008. So it's all the more stunning that this is somebody, not only who had never held elected office, but somebody who had helped Democrats recapture the House and Senate in 2006 with his financial and campaign contributions. That's what's truly the most stunning thing about this is that he was able to convince a plurality of the Republican Party, the voters, that he had their best interests at heart, even though he had been somebody helping to fund Democrats.

BANFIELD: So the interesting dynamic that seems to be starting, it was germinating earlier and it's getting a lot of traction, it's getting ink and it's getting headlines, is the Republicans who say, no, I don't need this unity message from the RNC, from anybody else. It just doesn't matter. They called themselves never Trump before. They're calling themselves never ever Trump now. And just to underscore that, John McCain, Senator John McCain's former aide, Mark Salter, tweeted out, I'm with her. That's the hashtag for Hillary Clinton.

And just back in February he wrote in Real Clear Politics, "if you can see him," meaning Trump, "plainly and you love our country, you must vote against him, even if that means electing Hillary Clinton." Do we expect to hear more of those echoes?

TAPPER: Mark is a - is a great man and a patriot. I know Mark Salter. But I think it's far more significant what his former boss, John McCain said, which is that he will support the Republican nominee. And John McCain is someone whose - not only his politics has been attacked by Donald Trump, but his war heroism. Donald Trump, of course, infamously or infamously saying that he - he likes people who weren't captured. John McCain serving five and a half years in a Vietnamese POW camp. So if John McCain can say, I am going to support the Republican nominee, then I think it's pretty clear that a lot of Republicans are, in fact, going to follow his lead and not Mark Salter, his former chief of staff's lead.

BANFIELD: OK.

TAPPER: I think that most Republicans will coalesce around Donald Trump and the message of never Hillary, I believe, will be more compelling to most Republicans than more so than never Trump.

BANFIELD: And what you just said is exactly what I thought until I heard all of these comments I'm about to play for you and our audience. Have a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you support him as the nominee if he's the nominee?

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't know.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Donald Trump is the most unelectable Republican I've seen in my lifetime.

MITT ROMNEY (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The American people deserve a better choice than that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That I have rejected a lot of what Mr. Trump has said and I think everyone should for that matter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said it before, I'll say it again, this is not someone that I support. For me, it's personal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And given what we know about Donald Trump, I can't vote for that guy either.

RUBIO: The fact that you're even asking me that question, I still, at this moment, continue to intend to support the Republican nominee, but it's getting harder every day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:10:09] BANFIELD: Getting harder every day. And there have been many days since that moment, Jake. And Brian Fallon, with Hillary Clinton's camp, sent out a message saying, "I do think," and he said it, but it means Hillary's campaign, "could have appeal with Republicans too." Do you think those people who you just saw in the establishment of the Republican Party might actually change their minds as we go towards the general election?

TAPPER: I'm well aware of those clips. Some of those clips were on my show. So I don't discount the fact that there are a lot of Republicans who do not want to support Donald Trump. And I would, if I had to guess, I could go through the line there and tell you which ones I think will ultimately stay true to what they said in those clips and which ones will say, I'm going to support the Republican nominee.

Ben Sasse, the senator from Nebraska, I believe he will not support Donald Trump. But Marco Rubio, I don't know. Marco Rubio is not a fan of Donald Trump, but he has made comments in the last few weeks suggesting that he thinks Hillary Clinton is the worst of those - the worst of those - of that choice. And I think a lot of Republicans are going to say that.

I'm not - I'm not belittling the fact that there is a negative feeling about Donald Trump among Republicans on Capitol Hill and among many other Republicans, but I just do think that ultimately the party, on Capitol Hill and the party in general, in terms of the voters of the Republican Parties, will largely come around and support Donald Trump. I just - I have covered many, many bitterly contested conventions and - I mean elections and campaigns. I remember after Hillary Clinton lost to Barack Obama, 40 percent or something of her supporters said they would never support Barack Obama. There was a whole movement about how they would never, never come around to Barack Obama. They even had an acronym, P.U.M.A., Party Unity My something. At the end of the day, the passions subside and people come around,

partisans - partisans, I'm talking about, come around. Will all of them? No, absolutely not. But I do think largely the Republican Party will come around Donald Trump and I think that you're going to see - look, absolutely, you're going to see Republicans come out in favor of Hillary Clinton or senators like Lindsey Graham kind of just beg off the question.

BANFIELD: Yes.

TAPPER: But, I think generally, the majority will fall in line because that's what partisans do at the end of the day, Democrats or Republicans, they fall in line.

BANFIELD: All right, Jake Tapper, thank you for that. And don't miss "The Lead" with Jake Tapper, weekdays, 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time. It should be a barn burner today as well.

We're going to hear straight ahead from Donald Trump a day after the big win. He's going to be live today on "The Situation Room" with Wolf Blitzer. That starts at 5:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN.

And coming up at 2:00 p.m. Eastern, Hillary Clinton will be live on CNN with Anderson Cooper. So much fallout. So much change in the race. So these interviews, absolutely critical, coming up next.

Now that it's game on between Trump and Clinton, effectively, how are they going to change their playbooks to try to take each other down? And will it become a whole new battle between outsider versus establishment? And what about the ugly side of politics? Have we seen the ugliest yet?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:17:21] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BANFIELD: And our breaking news is the second Republican casualty in just, well, say overnight, actually. Sources telling CNN that John Kasich has decided to suspend his long shot campaign for president. It was just last night that Ted Cruz did the same thing, folding his tent after that bruising defeat in Indiana at the hands of Donald Trump.

John Kasich is due to face reporters 5:00 p.m. Eastern Time in Columbus, his home state of Ohio. You're going to see it live right here on CNN.

And in the meantime, welcome to the first day of the rest of the campaign for president. Whew. I think I can safely say, buckle up. Republicans are poised to nominate the first non-politician since Eisenhower to carry a major party's banner in a general election. Dems will likely nominate the epitome of the political insider. Que my political think tank, Marc Lamont Hill is a professor at Morehouse College, host of BET News, and CNN political commentator, Margaret Hoover, a CNN political commentator and GOP strategist, and Peter Beinart is a CNN political commentator and contributor to "The Atlantic." OK, Marc Lamont Hill, I'm going to start with you.

There is, I mean I think it's fair to say, this is officially going to be a Clinton/Trump -

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, because we were all on the edge of our seats waiting for John Kasich to bow out.

BANFIELD: On the edge.

HILL: The big Kasich/Trump convention battle we were all poised for. No, but this is a formality, obviously. Kasich wanted to give Trump - to give Cruz his moment last night. He gets his moment today to bow out, to thank his supporters and to really close ranks around this Donald Trump guy.

BANFIELD: You think he's going to close ranks around Donald - you think John Kasich is going to throw his support behind Donald Trump?

HILL: I don't think he's going to offer full-throated support. What he will do is say, we need to unify as a party. We need to move forward. We need to beat Hillary.

What you're hearing people say is, we need to beat Hillary, not, we need to support Trump.

BANFIELD: OK.

HILL: It's a distinction, but it's an important one.

BANFIELD: So the unity issue has come up already and we're only at halfway through Wednesday.

Margaret Hoover, this was what Donald Trump, now the presumptive nominee, I think we can fairly say, the only guy who's left, said about how important party unity is. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): The party will come together. I don't think it's imperative that the entire party come together. I don't want everybody. I don't even want certain people that were extraordinarily nasty. Let them go their own way. Let them wait eight years or let them wait 16 years or whatever because I think we're going to have a great success against probably Hillary because the system is totally rigged against Bernie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, that was what he had to say on MSNBC. I don't know if he's going to say something different, because he's bound to come out any time now with a tweet or something now that effectively John Kasich has dropped out.

[12:20:05] I wish you could have seen Margaret listening to that. Her head was in her hands. The guy leading the party doesn't think unity matters.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. I mean he thinks it matters, except for he doesn't want everybody, because the people who were mean to him, he doesn't need. No, I mean, let's be very clear, Donald Trump, in order to win, needs to get every single vote that Mitt Romney got, plus. He needs to go plus on Hispanics. He needs to go plus on millennials. He needs to go plus on other minorities, on single women. By the way, he's got to win Republican women too, who 30 percent say they won't vote for Donald Trump. He is now behind Hillary Clinton in Arizona, North Carolina, Missouri and Utah. If you don't win those states, done, it's over.

Nationally, he's behind 10 points. He better have party unity if he wants to have a prayer of winning. And that means he has to reach out to people not just like me, but across the political spectrum. And he - not - he has not done that. He hasn't even taken the queue. I mean he's said, we just heard -

BANFIELD: Yes.

HOOVER: I don't want everyone.

BANFIELD: And he may not want say the Ted Cruzs, et cetera, but there are a lot of people who fall in line behind those individuals he may not like. Let - when you said he may not have a hope. I want to show you those numbers. You said 10 points. It's more than 10 points. It's 13 points that separate Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. This is the latest CNN/ORC poll on your choice for president America. Among registered voters, 54 are saying it's a Hillary president. Only 41 percent saying it's a Donald Trump president.

Peter Beinart, we've seen numbers like this before and they change mightily. We are months and months away from November and we see how Donald Trump attacks and how successful his attacks are no matter how filthy or vile or even true sometimes they are.

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, they've been successful in the Republican Party, but once you leave the Republican Party, the political environment is very different. Let's remember, he's been operating in an essentially all white political environment, right? There are very, very few African-Americans, Latinos who vote in Republican primaries. It is also - it's also an older electorate than the country as a whole.

When - as Margaret said, once you go on electorate where you have to win some significant percentage of Latinos and younger voters and single women, Donald Trump - remember, the Republican brand was weak - was bad with those people before Donald Trump. Now it's epically bad. I mean there are no words for the Republican brand and Donald Trump's brand among these key demographic groups. So, yes, you can never predict the future, but never have we been able to predict a general election with more certainty than - than -

BANFIELD: Those are the numbers you're talking about. Look at that, 81-14 among non-whites. There you go. BEINART: Than today. Right. You - this electorate will be more non- white than it was four years ago, especially because Donald Trump will bring out epic turnout among groups of people who do not want someone who they consider a racist to be their president.

HOOVER: Well -

BANFIELD: I have - I have to fit in a break. I have to fit in -

HOOVER: (INAUDIBLE). But this is what Democrats hope, though. I mean Hillary Clinton has to depend on that animosity towards Donald Trump in order to drive up the numbers of minorities that Barack Obama got because she doesn't elicit that kind of enthusiasm from them now.

HILL: Exactly.

BANFIELD: Yet.

HILL: Yet.

BEINART: Right. But Donald Trump doesn't (INAUDIBLE) the enthusiasm for some elements of his base that he needs -

BANFIELD: So I have to fit in a break. I'm going to get you guys in after the break, but you can think about this one, because a choice for vice president can do much to assuage all that you are talking about. Who might that person be, not only for Donald Trump, but for Hillary Clinton. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:44] BANFIELD: Breaking news to bring you. Sources telling CNN that John Kasich, who was the last man standing against Donald Trump in the Republican race for the nomination, has decided it's over. He has decided to suspend that long shot campaign for president somewhat unexpected this morning, that's for sure. He was actually on his way to fundraisers at the airport when this happened. We're going to hear from him live about this at 5:00 p.m. Eastern Time. And there's this from Gloria Borger, who says that close friends of John Kasich told them this morning, quote, "my heart is not in this."

Perhaps it's because all the questions are about these two people now. Effectively it was such a longshot for John Kasich. I want to explain for you why what you're seeing on your screen is a big deal. CNN/ORC polled voters and asked, who would better handle these issues? And among the registered voters, the left column of yellow is Clinton and the right column is Trump. That top issue is the economy and it's a top issue for a reason. Nine out of ten voters say it's number one for them. The economy is number one in their mind. And they go for Trump. He beats Hillary Clinton 50 to 45. But every one of those issues below economy, terrorism, immigration, income gap, health care, foreign policy, education, climate change, that is all a Hillary win. Her column wins out. So if it comes to the issues, folks, things are looking good for the two presumptive frontrunners of their party.

I want to bring back my political experts, Marc Lamont Hill, Margaret Hoover and Peter Beinart.

Marc Lamont Hill, I'll start with you. That's a big old deal, having a big old list in your favor.

HILL: Absolutely. But the list can shrink. The gaps can shrink over time. Some things aren't going anywhere. I find it very difficult to believe that people will change radically their position on Donald Trump with regard to say foreign policy, particularly Middle East policy. I think they're going to assume that the former secretary of state is stronger on that.

But Trump is doing fairly well on the economy. He's actually beating Hillary. And I think that will continue. It could even grow.

Also, certain issues matter differently at different times. You remember in -

BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE).

HILL: In 2008, foreign policy was all people cared about, who was going to protect us from terror. Then we have an economic collapse and you have John McCain who essentially said, the economy's not my thing.

BANFIELD: Right.

HILL: And it mattered a lot more.

BANFIELD: But it also matters that a guy like Donald Trump, who is not known, Margaret, to go out on the campaign trail and talk deeply and thickly on issues -

HILL: That's an understatement.

[12:30:04] BANFIELD: Is going to have to at some point tackle these issues. Do you think he's going to do it?

HOOVER: Yes. I don't think he's going to have to necessarily talk about issues. I mean he hasn't - he got through an entire Republican primary without really talking about any issues. I mean