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New Details Emerge In The Prince Death Investigation; Trump Now Presumptive GOP Presidential Nominee. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 4, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:03]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Meantime, Donald Trump sat down with Wolf Blitzer today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: As we're speaking, I know you're very happy that Ted Cruz has dropped out. CNN has confirmed John Kasich, the Ohio governor, he is dropping out as well.

You're the only one left right now.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That's good.

That's good. You're just telling me for the first time about John. And that's good. I think John is doing the right thing.

BLITZER: Ohio is an important state. No Republican has ever been elected president of the United States without winning Ohio.

TRUMP: Well, I think John will be very -- I have had a good relationship with John.

BLITZER: He's got a lot of government experience in the Congress, as a governor.

TRUMP: I think John will be very helpful with Ohio, even as governor.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: He says he doesn't want to be vice president.

TRUMP: Well, that could be. He said that.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Would he be someone you would be interested in vetting?

TRUMP: I would be interested in vetting John. I like John. I have a good relationship with John. I have got gotten along with him well.

But John would -- whether he's vice president or not, I think he will be very, very helpful with Ohio. BLITZER: Do you think the general election campaign has already

started, you vs. Hillary Clinton, that, for all practical purposes, Bernie Sanders is out?

TRUMP: Well, I think what has happened, there's been a little flip. And I'm even surprised by it. I thought that I would be going longer and she would be going shorter. She can't put it away. That's like a football team that can't put the ball over the line. I put it away.

She can't put it away. So, I thought that I would be out there and she'd be campaigning against me. I didn't realize. So, yes, I will be campaigning against her while she's campaigning...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: So, the general election campaign, from your perspective, starts today?

TRUMP: Essentially, it started, I mean, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me bring them back in, CNN political director David Chalian and CNN political correspondent Dana Bash.

And just traffic-wise, we're going to turn around some sound from Hillary Clinton and Anderson Cooper momentarily.

But let's just begin with Mr. Trump there sitting there with Wolf.

Here, according to Donald Trump, this is day one of the general election campaign for him.

David Chalian, what do you think the Trump campaign today is doing? What's priority number one, two and three?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, they are writing down their to-do list. And I think we actually have heard about all three priorities, or at least immediate priorities, from Donald Trump today.

One, we're starting to hear him talk a little bit about the vice presidential process. That is something that they now are going to begin, start ramping up that process of coming up with a list and the vetting process and how they want to proceed.

Two, Donald Trump talked this morning about money and how this effort is going to be funded, because, remember, he's prided himself on not raising money. He's of course accepted donations on his Web site, which did quite well for him, but the lion's share of the money funding his primary campaign was from his own pocket.

So, now he's saying that he's going to raise money for the Republican Party, considering down-ballot tickets and all of that, so they have got to work out that structure. And, three, he is going to work on party unity. He's now got to bring the party together. He is the last man standing, and he has been the dominant force inside

the Republican Party throughout the entire last year, and now the ability and what he's able to do to take all the portions of the party who have been resistant to him and open up doors, avenues of talking, avenues of cooperation, is going to be an immediate mission for him, so that when they hit that convention in Cleveland, they are a unified party, healed from this rough-and-tumble nomination season.

BALDWIN: On that note, and, Dana, before I ask you that question, if we have the photo, I'm sure you have seen the cover of "The New York Daily News" today with the elephant in the casket.

Here you have it, Dana Bash. With that image front and center, how does Donald Trump unify the party? Does he move more to the middle, like we heard Paul Manafort say to the RNC a couple of weeks ago? What do you think?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I don't think that it is -- it is the traditional move-to-the-middle situation for somebody like Donald Trump.

It's lower the rhetoric and change the rhetoric. I mean, what I'm hearing from my Republican friends and sources and people who I talk to, you know, all the time who are still resistant to Donald Trump -- and I wanted to emphasize not all of them are. Many of them are saying, we're going to, you know, stick with the Republican nominee, even -- even though it is Donald Trump.

But those who are still resistant aren't resistant in the way that I expected, which is some of the arguments we heard from the earlier opponents of Donald Trump, which is, he's not a real conservative. He used to be pro-choice. He used to be for universal health care. He's really a New York liberal, the kinds of things that we even heard from Ted Cruz yesterday.

It's more about the fact that he says things that they think are just crazy. They think that he's saying things, whether it's about "The National Enquirer" story just yesterday about Ted Cruz's father, allegedly, you know -- I don't even -- allegedly is probably giving it too much credence.

[15:05:03]

CHALIAN: Not even allegedly.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Not even allegedly. Exactly.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: Making up a story, it seems, that Ted Cruz's father was somehow involved in JFK's assassination and giving that story legs, whether it's that or the KKK.

I mean, those are the kinds of things that Republicans who I have been talking to who are still in the never Trump category are in that category for. Those are the reasons, and not so much about the policy, which actually, again, sort of surprises me.

BALDWIN: And that is precisely -- you just teed me up -- thank you very much -- to the sound bite. We have it between Anderson and Hillary Clinton.

You know, part of the interview, he brings up that point, that Donald Trump just yesterday referenced "The National Enquirer" story. You know, are you, Secretary Clinton, ready for whatever he may throw at you as far as attacks? Let's take a look at what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Are you ready for Donald Trump?

He's already got an unflattering nickname for you. He's unlike any other candidate probably certainly you have ever run against, anybody has seen in a long time.

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, you know, Anderson, I have seen the presidency up close from two different perspectives.

And I think I know what it takes, and I don't think we can take a risk on a loose cannon like Donald Trump running our country. You know, Donald Trump has said it's OK for other countries to get nuclear weapons. I think that's just downright dangerous. He has said wages are too high. I think we need to have a raise for the American people, raise the minimum wage, get wages back going up.

I think when he says women should be punished for having abortions, that is just beyond anything that I can imagine, I think most women can imagine.

COOPER: He did walk that back.

CLINTON: Well, he's a loose cannon.

I mean, he's somebody who has said so many things. And I'm sure he will be scrambling and his advisers will be scrambling, but he's already said all of these things. He says climate change is a Chinese hoax.

And I think it's real. And we have got to pull the world together to deal with it. So, you can go down a long list, some of which he's tried to bob and weave a little bit. But I think it's a risk. I think he is a loose cannon, and loose cannons tend to misfire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And on the loose cannon, though, Anderson also asked, would you be prepared if Donald Trump were to bring up, you know, issues from your marriage? And she essentially answered, well, if he wants to go back to the playbook of the '90s, been there, done that, oh, please, and she laughed it off.

But, Dana, to your point that Donald Trump has appealed to so many hearts of so many Americans, do you think, this go-round, it might resonate?

BASH: You know, maybe, but I think only in the sense that it feeds a narrative, a broader narrative that he's trying to continue about Hillary Clinton.

That is same old, same old, the same people, the same positions, the same policies that haven't worked. And if you add the -- sprinkle in the Clinton drama, which he's trying to do, that just gives it a little bit more flavor, from his perspective.

I really think that it's the -- it's the -- the business-as-usual narrative that's been so successful for him is going to continue.

CHALIAN: And, Brooke...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Go ahead, David.

CHALIAN: There were four loose cannons that she mentioned.

BALDWIN: Four. I counted them.

CHALIAN: That's clearly -- yes, that's clearly...

BALDWIN: The new line.

CHALIAN: ... what she came to say.

This is the indication that the Clinton campaign has seen all primary season long Donald Trump successfully define his opponents. And this is them putting him on notice that, day one, they are going to try to give as good as they get and try to start defining every single day Donald Trump.

That's going to be tricky because he's had such a good, successful season of defining himself and his own brand. But that's their mission.

BALDWIN: Dana and David, thank you both very much.

Let's get the Donald Trump supporter perspective. Let me bring in Jeff DeWit. He is also Arizona State treasurer.

Jeff DeWit, welcome back. How are you, sir?

JEFF DEWIT, ARIZONA STATE TREASURER: Great, Brooke. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

BALDWIN: Let's begin just with the four references to Donald Trump being a loose cannon from Secretary Clinton just now with Anderson. How would team Trump respond to that? DEWIT: Well, Hillary Clinton is -- you know, she epitomizes the

Washington establishment.

And what she's doing, honestly, is playing right into our hands, because she's pointing out the fact that Donald Trump is not a practiced politician. He is a businessman. I think she's trying to somehow frame the argument that you want a practiced politician, and that anybody who is not an establishment figure is a loose cannon of sorts.

But she doesn't understand where America is at, and Donald Trump absolutely has his finger on the pulse of America. It's why he was so successful in the primary. America wants a business leader, an outsider to take our country back.

And the more that she says that, the more she's playing right into our narrative, which is that he is an outsider.

BALDWIN: So, I hear you, Jeff, but let me just also point to -- this is new for everyone -- and this is really the first time it's significant, these poll numbers, new general election matchup poll.

[15:10:01]

You can see that, overall, Hillary Clinton is at 54 percent. Trump is at 41 percent. And the only category where Trump really does quite well -- and we heard him -- you know, this message resonating last night as he was speaking on the economy.

But, for everything else, you know, he's losing. How does he turn that around ahead of November?

DEWIT: Well, the top three issues in America are jobs, the economy and immigration. Donald Trump beats Hillary on all of those.

And, you know, there has been a very concerted effort in the Republican primary to tear down Mr. Trump. And that has obviously hurt his favorability to some degree. But now, as we bring unity -- and David and Dana had very good points. And David talked about job number one right now for us is to get unity on our side.

And we're going to have a huge advantage now going into the fall. I have said many times that the first party to get past this primary and to have a nominee is going to have a big advantage. It's so great that it's our side.

And bringing that unity now, getting everyone on board and everyone behind us is going to change those numbers drastically very quickly, as we have seen in previous presidential years. So, it's way too early to take that temperature.

BALDWIN: But, on unity, on unity -- and you're absolutely right. You have got to, you know, folks behind you.

But you have all these now establishment Republicans who are coming forward and saying, essentially, no way, Jose, am I voting for Donald Trump, in the wake of seeing the news last night with Ted Cruz, you know, the hashtag #ImWithHer.

There was a "Washington Post" opinion writer, George Will, who says: "It's conservatives' task to help Trump lose 50 states and save as many senators and representatives from the anti-Trump movement."

How do you bring those Republicans -- you talk about unity -- how do you bring them back to your side?

DEWIT: Well, he's completely wrong in that, because the way to protect the senator races and our congressional races is to help promote Donald Trump.

We need to have unity on the ticket. And, quite frankly, with the millions of Americans who are coming off the couch to vote for Donald Trump, you know, employing them now to help in those races and get their votes on the down-ballot races in every state is what's going to help the Republican Party.

And so all these people are doing by saying that is they're going to -- if anyone would, any Republican would vote for Hillary Clinton, then they are not a Republican. They are a Democrat, and they should just re-register.

But Donald Trump is bringing millions of people that we have never seen before. He is going to be one of the greatest things that has happened to the Republican Party. He already has in the registrations we have seen. So...

BALDWIN: One of the greatest things to have happened.

Let me ask you. He just told Wolf Blitzer that he's really a counterpuncher. He won't punch until someone else punches first. We're leaving the waters of the primary season and really entering the big race. Do you think he will attack first?

DEWIT: If you watched that Hillary Clinton interview, I think that's already been decided. She has attacked, and she has attacked very, very decisively on Donald Trump.

So, you know, look, it's politics, right? It's what they do, and it's -- you know, part of politics is this character assassination. She is playing out of the old political playbook in trying to tear down absolutely who he is. And she's not realizing that the American public wants that. They want Donald Trump. They want someone from outside the establishment.

BALDWIN: How -- I'm just curious. How was she attacking? She was saying she wants to continue doing what she's doing, stay on substance. Where was the attack?

DEWIT: Well, the four times that she called him a loose cannon, when she said he's a big risk, when she mischaracterized things he said about demeaning women and degrading.

And, you know, she uses all these politically tested words to try to drive a point. And then she says, but, you know, I don't want to say those things. So, those are attacks. We just have to be honest about it. She's already on the attack and she's very worried.

And, quite frankly, taking her off of message right now on Bernie Sanders may hurt her in her own primary. This is a huge advantage for team Trump right now that she has to go off message. And we're not sure if she's going to be the nominee.

There are a lot of people out there that say Bernie Sanders still has had a shot in that race. And the more that she does go off message and talk about Donald Trump, which we're all for, that is going to hurt her in the primary. And I think right now, they look very, very poised to have a contested convention on the Democrat side.

BALDWIN: We will see. We will see. I know you will continue supporting Donald Trump. We will continue that conversation. Always important to hear your perspective.

Jeff DeWit, thank you so much.

DEWIT: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Want to make sure you know what's ahead on CNN in the next couple of hours. You can watch the entire Wolf Blitzer interview with Donald Trump. That's at 5:00 Eastern in the "THE SITUATION ROOM."

And, tonight, watch the entire Hillary Clinton interview with Anderson Cooper, 8:00 Eastern on "A.C. 360," huge night here on CNN. Do not miss a beat.

You have just now heard the perspective from the Trump camp. Coming up next, we will hear from the Democratic side and from Republicans who are not exactly ready to get behind this presumptive nominee, to get behind Donald Trump. Hear why.

Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:19:10]

BALDWIN: You know, you thought, through this, presidential elections were unpredictable? This has, I feel like, anything in history beat.

The focus now turning to November, a general election matchup between presumably Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, looking more and more certain, but neither candidate should take anything for granted.

With me now, Molly Ball, political writer for "The Atlantic," CNN political commentator Matt Lewis, who is also a senior contributor to "The Daily Caller," and CNN political commentator and former special adviser to President Obama Van Jones is back with us.

So, great to have all of you OK.

First, Van, just your take on, you know, what we're hearing from Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump today on CNN. Is this -- are we getting this foreshadowing to the next six months? VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This is it.

I mean, you just saw the past hour this is going to be the war to settle the score. They are coming out from the very beginning. One of the things you notice, the first thing that Trump's spokesperson says is establishment.

[15:20:07]

They think that that's the word they want to brand her with. If they win that, then they win. She's trying out, what can I brand him with? She says loose cannon. I don't think they are there yet.

I would encourage them to try, you know, bully. That might be a better way, because then everything she does to him, well, there are you, you're being a bully. You're being a bully. We don't want bullies. Americans have been bullied by ISIS, by the corporations.

She's got to find some way to tag him before she gets tagged. But you have already -- you're now seeing two heavyweight boxers circling each other, already throwing the first jabs.

BALDWIN: Molly, what did you think?

MOLLY BALL, "THE ATLANTIC": Well, you know, I think what we see from Hillary, I agree that her response has been rather mild, but I think she may be trying to stay a little bit above the fray at this point, because she's trying to make a case about Trump's temperament.

And what we have seen is, Hillary is running a very conventional campaign, and Trump is an unconventional candidate. And what he's good at is setting people off-balance. He gets under their skin. He insults them in ways they are not accustomed to. They overreact, and then they look just as off-kilter as he does.

So, I think Hillary is trying to make the point that she is the candidate of the even keel, the non-risky candidate. And the question for the American electorate is, does the rise of Trump mean that they actually want to take a risk?

BALDWIN: Matt, what do you think?

(LAUGHTER)

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, look, I think if it's -- if the race is about demographics, then Hillary Clinton, you have to bet on her.

With women, Hispanics, anybody who is not a working-class white guy you would have to assume the race -- you bet on Hillary. But if you're talking about the message, I think Van is exactly right. I think Donald Trump has the messaging advantage.

Hillary Clinton is an establishment politician. And Donald Trump is the sort of revolutionary outsider insurgent candidate. And I don't think that works exclusively in Republican primaries. I think there really is a hunger out there in America right now to change things.

We're not -- people aren't happy with the way things are going. And so, you know, this is going to be a much more interesting race than I think some of the -- what -- I don't know what the polling is, that she's up by like 15 points. I don't think that's going to last.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Much more interesting. It's already been pretty interesting already.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Van.

JONES: Listen, I think everything we just went through is just the trailer for the trilogy.

BALDWIN: Yes.

JONES: This is going to be a major, epic thing.

And I think, for instance, Donald Trump has been able to make what anybody else would call being erratic, being unstable, being dangerously unstable, he calls it unpredictable.

BALDWIN: Yes.

JONES: So, he -- he's able to brand himself as unpredictable to mask his weaknesses.

(CROSSTALK)

LEWIS: I'm sorry.

JONES: Go ahead.

LEWIS: Hillary thinks this is 1964 all again, that Donald Trump's Barry Goldwater, and he's going to get destroyed because he's going to look erratic, like the guy who is going to, you know, lob a bomb into the...

JONES: Finger on the trigger.

LEWIS: Into the Kremlin.

But you know what? The American public has changed. This isn't a 1964 American public. They are buying reality TV shows. And that's Trump is selling.

BALDWIN: Molly, you wrote a piece today called "The Day the Republican Party Died."

I'm sure you have seen the cover of "The New York Daily News." This is the Republican elephant in the coffin. You say the Republican Party will never be the same. Do you think that's the case? Do you think it's time for change? What say you?

BALL: Yes, I mean, I think, no matter what happens in this election, there's -- there's a reckoning that's just beginning for the Republican Party.

The people in the party, some of them very high up in the party, a lot of people I know who are professional Republicans, who have devoted their lives to the party, who are now changing their registration, who are not going to vote, and who feel like they are politically homeless, and these are people who are passionate about ideas.

So, I don't think that's a split that gets repaired easily. I don't think you can just say party unity, party unity until it becomes true. I think there's a serious split here between a base of voters that the sort of elites and the establishment didn't understand, and a party structure, a conservative intelligentsia that now has no place to go with their ideas.

So, yes, there's a serious split for the Republican Party. I don't think we know how that's going to play out.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: You know, Donald Trump said today to Wolf Blitzer that this is day one really for him looking into the general election. We saw him coming in on that escalator announcing his candidacy.

Quick, quick sound bite here of folks who said, no way.

Roll it.

(LAUGHTER)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE PATAKI (R), FORMER NEW YORK GOVERNOR: Donald Trump is not going to be the Republican nominee, period.

CARLY FIORINA, FORMER HEWLETT-PACKARD CEO: What I am firmly convinced of is that Donald Trump will not be our nominee.

JEB BUSH (R), FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: He's not going to be the nominee. He's not a serious candidate. He's an entertainer.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: I don't care if I have to get in my pickup truck and drive around the country, like I did when I ran for the Senate. Donald Trump will never be the nominee of the party of Lincoln and Reagan.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's not going to be the nominee. He's going to -- we're going to the convention. I'm going to be the nominee.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is not going to be the nominee. We're going to beat him for this nomination.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Matt, how much crow is going around today for everyone to eat?

[15:25:04]

LEWIS: A lot.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

LEWIS: And I think more embarrassing mash-up would be commentators, not politicians, because politicians have an incentive to get that one wrong.

But, you know, everybody -- nobody saw this coming. But it is -- it is very dangerous for the conservative movement. I mean, the party of Reagan that I grew up with, where we cared up about a strong national defense, free markets, that's out.

And we're actually reverting back to a pre-Reagan-era Republican Party that was more protectionist, more isolationist, and vastly different.

BALDWIN: We sat over dinner, Van Jones, you and me last fall. I will say you saw this coming. You saw this coming.

JONES: And I will tell you why.

BALDWIN: Quickly, yes.

JONES: I will tell you why.

I grew up in rural West Tennessee, a good red state kid, public schools and church every Sunday. And I'm going to tell you, there's pain out there. And both -- the elites in both parties have been insulated from that pain. People are sitting on a white-hot stove.

LEWIS: Yes.

JONES: They want something to change. They want it now.

If Hillary Clinton can find a way to tap into that, she will be fine. If she doesn't, get the sandbags ready. A wave is coming.

BALDWIN: Van Jones, Matt Lewis, Molly Ball, thank you all so much.

BALL: Thank you.

LEWIS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next: stunning new details about the hours leading up to Prince's death -- the singer's closest associates reportedly seeking help to deal with the music icon's painkiller addiction, but it didn't come soon enough.

We will take you live to his Paisley Park compound coming up.

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