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CNN NEWSROOM

Clinton and Sanders Rally Up Supporters Ahead of New York Debate; GOP Delegate Battle Intensifies; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired April 14, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[101:00:01] ANDY SCHOLES: And all along best record ever, 73-9. Of course President Obama, a big Chicago Bulls fan, he tweeted, "Congrats to the Warriors, great group of guys on and off the court. If somebody had to break the Bulls record, I'm glad it's them."

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: That's awesome. Andy Scholes, thanks for sharing.

SCHOLES: What a night.

COSTELLO: We appreciate it. Yes, you're not kidding.

The next hour of NEWSROOM starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are a lot of people here tonight.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am so proud at what's happening here in the Bronx, but it can be even better if we work together.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The bosses and the establishment took all of the power away from the voters, so the voters never got to vote.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald and his team, they're acting like union boss thugs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm live in Brooklyn where the big CNN Democratic debate will take place later tonight. We are approaching the 11th hour of the primary season, and just 11 hours away from the big showdown here.

Now Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders will take to this stage and grapple in their last debate before Tuesday's all-important primary in New York. Both campaigns sharpening their attacks and firing up their supporters. Sanders electrifies a reported record crowd in Washington Square Park. Clinton throws her own bombs in the Bronx. The one-time New York senator looking to stop Bernie Sanders' recent surge of momentum. And on the Republicans side, things get even nastier. Donald Trump

ratchets up his attacks on his own party. Ted Cruz accuses Trump staffers of being thugs and John Kasich takes it all in hoping for a dual implosion.

Let's start, though, with the Democrats. And the one word Bernie is counting on in the New York primary? That would be turnout.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: We do well when the voter turnout is high. So if there is a large voter turnout, if a lot of working class people who traditionally might not vote get involved in this campaign, if young people who maybe have never voted before get involved in this campaign and come out and vote, yes, I think we can win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN's Joe Johns is at the site of tonight's debate. He joins us now live. Hi, Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. That's certainly one of Bernie Sanders' continuing themes. This is the stage for tonight's debate. And I think we can say the stage is literally and figuratively set for Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton to come here in the battle of Brooklyn. Hillary Clinton has been leading in the polls just for weeks and weeks, but her campaign just today trying to establish that they don't think they will win by double digits even though the polls are indicating that just now.

Hillary Clinton, for her part, has been talking about the melting pot of voters here in New York City. Something like two out of every 10 voters was born in another country. She was focusing on that as well, talking about the Republican frontrunner, Donald Trump, and the way he addresses immigrant issues. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Unlike Donald Trump, we're not saying some people don't belong. We're not saying some people are not wanted. This is a burro of immigrants in a city of immigrants in a state of immigrants in a nation of immigrants, and I am proud of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Also a continuing focus on the minority vote, especially here in New York City. Bernie Sanders appearing with the National Action Network that was started by Reverend Al Sharpton. Hillary Clinton appeared there yesterday -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And Joe, I just want to go back to the expectations of the New York primary. This is coming from Hillary Clinton's camp that they don't think Hillary Clinton will win the state of New York by double digits. Is that what you said?

JOHNS: Right. Yes. There are concerns that there is such an expectation now that Hillary Clinton will, in fact, win the primary by double digits. The concern of course is that turnout could be suppressed simply because people think Hillary Clinton is going to win and that they don't need to go and vote. So the Hillary Clinton campaign is pushing really hard on the idea that they're not taking for granted the idea they're going to win by double digits and certainly encouraging the people who support Hillary Clinton to get out there and vote.

COSTELLO: All right. Joe Johns reporting live for us this morning. Thank you.

Bernie Sanders, let's center on him for just a bit. As you know, he's the oldest presidential candidate yet he has the youngest base of supporters by far.

[10:05:06] Here is a measure of that. The music and arts festival Coachella which draws nearly 200,000 people to the California desert is honoring Sanders with a block party, and it's being dubbed Berniecella. If you ever wonder why so many people feel the Bern, at 74 Sanders speaks their language. Here he is on Comedy Central.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: We believe in the value of hard work. We believe in the value of equality. We believe in the value of a society where the American dream works for all, not just the 1 percent. Those are New York values. And the truth is, New York values are American values. There is no difference.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Yes. He dropped the mike. Let's break all of this down with my panel this morning. I'm joined by Bronx borough president and a Hillary Clinton supporter, Ruben Diaz Junior, Nomiki Konst, Sanders supporter and Democratic strategist, and Peter Beinart is a CNN political commentator and contributor for the "Atlantic."

Welcome to all of you.

RUBEN DIAZ, BRONX BOROUGH PRESIDENT: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here in this beautiful setting, right?

DIAZ: Pleasure to be here. Isn't it?

NOMIKI KONST, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Gorgeous.

COSTELLO: So gorgeous, I know.

Peter, I want to start with you and what Joe Johns just reported that Hillary Clinton's camp is kind of downplaying expectations as relating to the New York primary results. Why do you think they're doing that?

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They're concerned, perhaps, about her supporters not coming out to vote. I don't think it really matters frankly. I think if she beats Bernie Sanders even by smaller than 10 percent, given the way proportional -- the distribution goes, he can't pick up delegates. It will be portrayed in the media as a victory. Bernie Sanders is behind in this race. He's the one who needs breakthroughs, not Hillary Clinton. He needs an outright win here if he's going to change the dynamic of the race.

COSTELLO: And Ruben, when you look at the huge crowds that Bernie Sanders was able to assemble yesterday in Washington Square Park, 27,000, he actually exceeded the number that Barack Obama attracted when he was running for president the first time around. That's impressive. Doesn't that mean that Bernie Sanders does have momentum and maybe the Hillary Clinton camp is downplaying expectations because she's seeing that?

DIAZ: Not unlikely. I think it was impressive, the crowd that was there last night, but the reality is what we saw in the Bronx yesterday, for instance, 1500 people, precinct captains, district leaders, elected officials --

COSTELLO: But you said 1500 people against 27,000?

DIAZ: Yes, but those -- 100 percent of our crowd are quadruple prime voters and people who are going to bringing folks out. And that's happening to other cities. This is a lesson in campaign efficiency. That's what happened in the Bronx. It was impressive and it's good to see that young people are motivated but you'll see on Tuesday how we're going to pull out the vote for Hillary.

COSTELLO: And I think that Reuben may have a point because there were a lot of people. And I don't want to downplay it because that's an amazing number of people to attract, but it was right by NYU. Many of those people probably can't even vote in the state of New York.

KONST: I was there. It was a multicultural, multi-age -- I mean, listen, that's a hub. West Fourth is the subway stop. Everybody comes into West Fourth. That is a hub in New York. But I have to, you know, combat that point, Ruben, I'm sorry. That reeks of machine politics to me. And what Bernie Sanders is doing by attracting these voters, these disaffected voters, these new voters, these independents, you know, the concern here is that the New York primary is so close -- I know you're talking about this earlier.

It is so close with so many different deadlines. Registering to vote with the party in October. That was well before the rhythms of the campaign started, before the debates started. And that hurts the Democratic Party. And who sets those policy? This is a Democratic controlled state.

COSTELLO: Yes, but Bernie Sanders --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: He's been in politics for 30 years.

KONST: But he can't control state.

COSTELLO: I know. But he knows it. (CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: And I know you're maligning, what, machine party politics, is that what you said? But doesn't he have to master that, too, to win?

KONST: No, because the difference is that we are a different party. We are losing Democrats, independents, we are not registering Democrats that are young, and the problem is the heart of it is this machine style politics that exists in states like in New York.

DIAZ: Can I jump in for a minute here?

KONST: You're great, though.

DIAZ: When you talk about Democrats and Democratic values, it's about looking at problems and coming up with solutions. And that's what we've done in the Bronx and that's what we're doing throughout the city of New York. The people that you saw in last night are folks that see that the Bronx has come back in a big way. That New York has come back in a big way, and that we've had a friend in Hillary Clinton. And when you look at Bernie Sanders --

KONST: How?

DIAZ: By having her help us with federal funding for housing. By having her help us with funding for transportation. She's been with us on health care. And she's --

KONST: She's passed three bills in the Senate. This is something people that don't talk about.

DIAZ: No, no, but when you look --

KONST: Her record in the Senate is abysmal. Three bills, two to rename facilities.

COSTELLO: What about Bernie Sanders?

DIAZ: Look, Bernie Sanders -- what about Bernie Sanders?

KONST: The amendment case.

DIAZ: Bernie Sanders abandoned New York state.

(CROSSTALK)

DIAZ: You know, he moved out --

KONST: Abandoned New York state?

COSTELLO: OK, Peter. You're the neutral voice. You're the neutral voice.

BEINART: I think -- look, Bernie Sanders does better among independents. So he does better in states where more independents can vote.

[10:10:01] He also happens to do better in caucuses where many, many fewer people vote. So it's not always the case that more voters help Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders does better in states that are caucuses, states that are overwhelmingly white and states where independents can vote.

I happen to agree that it would be better if New York made it easier, the Democrats made it easier for more people to vote. But the basic problem that Bernie Sanders faces is this, if you can't be competitive with the African-American and Latino vote nationally, you can't win a Democratic nomination.

COSTELLO: But it is (INAUDIBLE).

BEINART: Yes, but in terms of their overall numbers. Unless he can get beyond 20 percent, 30 percent, and start getting closer to 40 percent, 50 percent, he's not going to be a serious challenge.

KONST: So those voter laws block people when they're under 50. He's winning with people of color across demographics under 50. The voter laws are designed for those older voters who've been living those districts, who've been registered for many years, the new voters, anybody who grew up in the new millennium. You know, they're moving around. I mean, people that were hurt by the economy are moving homes, left and right.

I mean, I lived in a new apartment last year. My friends have lived in apartments last year. That hurts the Democrats. And when the Democrats control the legislature in New York and they set those laws and they depend on turnout and then they look at the party and wonder why --

(CROSSTALK)

DIAZ: Bronx County is the largest Democratic county in the state of New York. And when you say Democrats, how are having Democratic values -- again, we've created jobs, we cut unemployment by 50 percent. We've built housing, we've done it all in a sustainable way. All of the things that Bernie talks about we've been able to actually implemented in the Bronx, in the state of New York with the help of Hillary Clinton. So that's the reason why you're going to see that all of us are coming out and supporting a friend that's been there for us. And it's going to be a great victory on Tuesday night.

COSTELLO: So one word that will describe the debate tonight from each of you, what is it, Ruben?

DIAZ: I hope it's substantive, but I also -- you know, understand that ultimately we all got to come together and beat the Republicans in November.

COSTELLO: OK. One word --

KONST: A bunch of New Yorkers.

COSTELLO: Exactly. Peter?

BEINART: Look, compared to the Republican debate, it's actually very civil and very substantive.

COSTELLO: We'll see.

BEINART: Maybe a little bar, though.

COSTELLO: Could be kind of spicy. Yes, maybe a little bar. Ruben Diaz, Nomiki Konst and Peter Beinart, thanks to all of you. I appreciate it.

The showdown between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton is just a few hours away. Actually more than a few but it's tonight. Their first face-to-face debate in more than five weeks 9:00 p.m. Eastern. Moderated by Wolf Blitzer. Only on CNN.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump isn't just angry over the GOP delegate system. He's now calling for action, and urging his supporters to protest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:16:47] COSTELLO: Good morning. And welcome back. I'm Carol Costello. The Republican delegate fight heats up. New details surfacing about threats against delegates in places like Indiana and Colorado. Now Senator Ted Cruz is pointing the finger at Donald Trump, slamming the campaign for using intimidation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: They're acting like union boss thugs in Colorado. I spoke yesterday to the chairman of the Republican Party in Colorado. Trump supporters put out his home address, put out his phone numbers. He got thousands of phone calls, he got death threats. Trump supporters were telling their supporters go to his house and bring their guns.

Look, violence doesn't belong in democracy, and the Trump campaign encourages it over and over again. In Indiana police are reporting threats of violence against delegates from the Trump campaign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But Mr. Trump says the delegates system is stacked against him and he's simply firing up his supporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The bosses and the establishment and the people that shouldn't have this power took all of the power away from the voters. So the voters never got to vote. And the voters didn't know that except when I got up and complained. It's a rigged system, folks. The Republican system is a rigged system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. Let's get more on this from Phil Mattingly. He joins us live now.

Good morning, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. One candidate accused of lying, another candidate accused of threatening violence, an entire national party accused of cheating. Welcome to the Republican primary on any day that basically ends in why, Carol.

But look, here's what's actually happening here. As the delegate fight intensifies and there's no question we've hit peak right now, at least up to this point in the fight to try and reach that 1237 number, Donald Trump and Ted Cruz are fighting it out both in public and within their organizations behind the scenes. Ted Cruz last night criticizing the direction Donald Trump's team has taken this battle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: It's not funny when Roger Stone who organized and put together Trump's political campaign is telling delegates in Cleveland, we're going to make public your hotel room so people can come and threaten and intimidate you if you dare vote against Donald Trump. That is -- you know what that is behaving like? That's behaving like Democrats in 1968 in Chicago. And we're not Democrats. We're not interested in behaving like union thugs and Donald Trump needs to learn that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now, Carol, the Trump campaign is rejecting the idea that they're helping to foment violence. But last night Donald Trump taking to Twitter to urge action, pointing out to his Colorado supporters, quote, "Big protest march in Colorado on Friday afternoon. Don't let the bosses take your vote." And then following that up with another tweet saying, "The rule did change in Colorado shortly after I entered the race in June because the polls and their bosses knew I would win the voters."

Now, of course, Carol, we've been talking about this all week. The Colorado vote where Ted Cruz swept the delegates last weekend. There was no preference vote in that state. The caucus had been removed. Now there's no indication from state officials that they made that change because Donald Trump was entering the race. What I heard or what I've been told by state officials is they wanted to be more relevant come convention time. Well, they are certainly relevant now in this fight for delegates.

[10:20:03] Donald Trump continuing to target the result there, and part of the reason, Carol, as we've talked about over and over again, Donald Trump needs to reach that 1237 number of delegates before Cleveland. There is a number of indications that Ted Cruz is set up to be in a really good position on a second or third ballot there. What Donald Trump is doing right now is trying to rile up his base. The map looks good for him in the weeks ahead, time to get those folks excited and try and get him to that magic delegate number -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Phil Mattingly reporting live for us this morning. Thank you. So let's talk more about this with CNN political commentator and Trump

supporter, Jeffrey Lord. I'm also joined by founder and president of Tea Party Nation, Judson Phillips. He is a surrogate for Ted Cruz.

Welcome to both of you.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning. So before I start this, I want to play for our viewers what the Colorado GOP chair had to say. His name is Steve House. He's the one that said he's received death threats. Now it's important to note we don't know if those death threats are coming from Trump supporters. But here's what the state chair -- the Colorado state chair told KRDO about one of those threats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE HOUSE, COLORADO GOP CHAIRMAN: And he said, I need you to do me a favor. And I said well, that depends on what it is. And he said get your gun, put it in your mouth, pull the trigger. I'll call you back in two minutes. If you can't do that, I'm going to send somebody over to the house to help you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Wow. Delegates in Indiana say they've also received threats. Of course you heard Senator Cruz, he blames Mr. Trump. So, Jeffrey, I'll pose that question for you.

LORD: Sure.

COSTELLO: Where are these threats coming from?

LORD: First of all, let's just be clear here. There's no place for violence in the American political system, period, and under any circumstances. Let me underscore that. We live in an age where crazy people, stupid people do things thinking they're helping their candidate. This does not help Donald Trump. He surely wants no part of this. I'm certain of this.

COSTELLO: So you think some of those threats are coming from Trump supporters then?

LORD: They may come from people who think they're supporting Donald Trump but certainly there's no organizing it. But let me address one specific thing that Senator Cruz said. He talked about Roger Stone. Roger Stone was talking, not about violence which he has made emphatically clear to me. He was talking about nonviolently going to people's rooms and having discussions.

I can tell you I attended the 1986 -- 1976 Reagan-Ford convention in Kansas City. They were doing that then to delegates. They went to the delegates, they got their hotel room and they went to say, can't we talk about this? That's the deal.

COSTELLO: It's such a charged climate right now. It's so different today than what it was back then.

LORD: I -- you know, sure, I agree, but you can't -- I mean, just because these people are elected doesn't mean they shouldn't be talking to people. I mean, they should be talking -- they have constituents. They have whether their fellow Republicans from another state, whether they're Trump supporters, Cruz supporters, or anything else, they should be talking to people. But emphatically, I mean. violence is, you know, out of the question.

COSTELLO: Judson, I would suspect you have another view.

JUDSON PHILLIPS, TED CRUZ SUPPORTER: I've got a completely different view. This is threat. This is third world violence. This is the kind of stuff you get from the mafia. This is not what happens in America. But this has been the hallmark of the Trump campaign all along. It was Donald Trump who said, quote, "I'd like to punch that guy," and then told somebody else yes, punch him and I'll pay your legal bills.

How many times have we seen violence at Trump rallies? Trump supporters punching people, hitting people. And now Roger Stone who's saying yes, we're going to visit you in your hotel rooms? What does a logical, rational person think of that? You have the Colorado -- the head of the Colorado GOP getting death threats. Delegates in Indiana getting death threats.

This is -- you know, a fish rocks from the top and this is coming straight from the top of the Trump campaign.

COSTELLO: So is it time, Jeffrey, that Mr. Trump came out and said, look, I love your support, but stop these threats? So stop this violent talk because it ain't helping me? Shouldn't your candidate say that?

LORD: Sure. He's said this kind of thing repeatedly over time. They run a recording or have somebody come into the stage at these Trump rallies and say this. I do want to make one other --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Yes, but --

LORD: I want to --

COSTELLO: But it would be more effective coming out of Mr. Trump's mouth.

LORD: Well, he has -- he has said it. He has said it. I mean, this is like the Klu Klux Klan thing. Did you say it yesterday? Or did you say it today, or did you say it five minutes ago? Of course. Of course he believes there should be no violence. The point -- one of the points that I think needs to be addressed here, and I've said this before, violence is a thing of the American left. This is -- in my childhood, they were taking over universities, threatening professors. I mean, whether it's race riots --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: I know, and I hear you.

LORD: I know.

COSTELLO: But we're talking specifically about these death threats going to the Colorado state chair.

LORD: Right. And there's no --

COSTELLO: Does that have anything to do with the liberal left?

LORD: If you can find for me some memo from Donald Trump that says go beat people up, go shoot people, go commit acts of violence, you're not going to find it because that's not what Donald Trump believes.

COSTELLO: OK. Judson, last word.

PHILLIPS: You don't need to find a memo. He said it on stage. I'd like to go punch that guy. I'll pay your legal bills.

[10:25:05] You know, if -- you know, Jeffrey said this is a hallmark of the American left. And he's right because Donald Trump is a liberal. He comes from the left. That's why we're seeing this kind of stuff in this campaign.

Hey listen, you're talking about a guy who announced to the world, I am a liberal Democrat. He's from the left.

LORD: So did Ronald Reagan.

COSTELLO: OK.

PHILLIPS: Yes, but Ronald Reagan was a patriot.

COSTELLO: Thanks to you both.

PHILLIPS: He loved America who changed. Donald Trump hasn't.

COSTELLO: OK. We got to go. Thanks so much to both of you.

PHILLIPS: Carol, thank you very much.

COSTELLO: Jeffrey Lord, Judson Phillips, you're welcome. Thank you so much.

LORD: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, will Bill Clinton's run-in with a Black Lives Matter protester come up on that debate stage tonight? I think so. Why it's so relevant here in New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)