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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Police Find Loaded Gun In Football Player Will Smith's Car; Trump Claims RNC Doesn't Want Him To Win The Nomination; RNC Chief Says Campaigns Are Responsible For Understanding Rules; Judge Orders Two Years In Jail For Ethan Couch; Jury Selection This Week In Ross Harris Trial; Hillary Clinton Talks Civil Rights At National Action Network Convention. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired April 13, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:30:03] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: So do you think his attorney will then make the case that this was a justifiable homicide based on standard ground laws in Louisiana?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Without question. So firs, let's look at stand your ground to begin with, what it means in essence is you have no duty to retreat that you could stand your ground and there's no basis in the event you feel there's a reasonable perception in your mind that you're in danger. You can stand your ground and you can act. And with the development of this weapon it lends credence to the fact that A, there was some discussion about a weapon, as one witness said.

And remember the passenger was interviewed and the reports the passenger in Hayes' car was interviewed and there were reports that that weapon was even brandished. So all of these goes to one critical issue and that's what was my state of mind and what was my perception of a threat?

BROWN: So how could the fact that Hayes' belief turned out to be true that Smith did have a gun impact the jury in this case?

JACKSON: It's a major because what the jury is going to be asking are really three questions. Number one, was there a threat? Was there a threat at all?

Number two, was that threat immediate and deadly?

And number three, based upon that, were the actions of Hayes reasonable?

And so that's what a jury is going to question, is the finding of a nine millimeter weapon in that car and their reports that indeed Smith was talking about a gun and have a gun, it's a significant development which favors a defense of self-defense in the case.

BROWN: So then of course the prosecution will argue, "Look, Hayes pursued the car. He should have called 911."

JACKSON: Absolutely. Well, the prosecution certainly going to argue something major which is there were a multiple shots here. So did you exceed your justification for self defense when you fired multiple times? And thereby, did you lose the ability because, you know what, the force used always has to be proportionate to any threat posed. So they're going to argue that.

BROWN: All right, Joey Jackson, thank you so much for that legal analysis. We appreciate it.

And up next, are the GOP rules really stacked against Donald Trump or does he just need to play the game differently instead of complaining.

We'll get the inside scoop on the rules from a GOP insider, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:36:29] BROWN: Well the feud between Donald Trump, the Republican National Committee is growing. Trump says the odds are against him as he takes shots at what he calls the party's rigged delegate system.

But the Republican front-runner doubled down on his claims during CNN's town hall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know the rules very well. But I know it is stacked against me by the establishment. I fully understand it. We had people out there and they weren't heard. And then in fact today, when it was announced, the numbers were announced they put out something on Twitter saying, "Whoa, we stopped Trump. That was put out by the party in Colorado." The point is, it was stacked against us.

Now, we won our share.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So joining us now to get further insight is Steve Scheffler. He himself is a Republican delegate and current GOP committee member. Thank you so much for coming on Steve.

You've been a member on the committee for several years now. Just bottom line, did the RNC create any rules to thwart Trump's ability to secure the nomination?

STEVE SCHEFFLER, CURRENT REPUBLICAN COMMITTEE MEMBER: no, they didn't. of course the RNC has been working on rules for the last four years. But then have a convention rules committee which is separate from the RNC rules committee the whole meet, the week before and of course that committee can offer a change rules that they want to see going forth in to the convention, so that committee has the authority and as a guiding force for the national convention.

BROWN: And do you think that's going to happen? Do you think that when they meet a week or two before the actual convention, that they will come up with new rules that could hurt Donald Trump or any of the other candidates?

SCHEFFLER: Well, my view on this whole thing is that the rules should not be changed at this point in time.

Four years ago, I opposed the raising from the five state polarities, to the eight state majority. I thought that was not a good thing to do. But it is what we have. I wish we would going to changed it before now.

But now they were this close to the convention, we have to use the rules that these candidates knew going in to this race. And so changing it at this point in time looks like we're trying to give the two leading candidates a disadvantage and we certainly can't do that.

You know, it's a war within the Republican Party we can't afford. We have to be united coming out of this convention. So my view is we need to keep the rules as they are right now.

BROWN: Right, but as you point out historically the rules have been changed to get whatever results they were looking for.

So the question is what's stopping them? In this case, I want to go to what RNC Committee Member, Randy Evans said on MSNBC, he said if Donald Trump exceeds the 1,100 votes he will become the nominee even though he may not have that magic 1237 number. How would that be possible Steve?

SCHEFFLER: Well, first of all, you know, you have to have 1,237. That's just the bottom line. There is no wiggle room on that.

I don't know what he is inferring. Maybe he is inferring the fact that, you know, if Donald Trump has 1,100 and Ted Cruz's have that or two-thirds of that that he maybe thinks it's best that Donald Trump will be given that nomination on the second ballot.

But certainly the rules have not changing. You're not going to change this. You have to have 1,237 to secure the nomination. If you don't you're go to a second ballot.

BROWN: And so from what you can tell now, do you think this will be a contested convention?

SCHEFFLER: I really don't know. I guess we have to see how it pans out in the states, and going to through California on June 7th as you know this has been a very unpredictable race.

And so for me to guess if it is going to be contested or not, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. But my hope is we're all going to be united when this is all over.

BROWN: All right, Steve Scheffler thank you very much for sharing your perspective there.

[12:40:02] And up next on this Wednesday, if you're a potential juror in the Georgia hot car trial, death trial. Get this the lawyers want to know if you've ever watched this show, eaten at Chick-fil-A or what could online porn.

We'll see how all factors in to the trial just ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, so-called "Affluenza teen," Ethan Couch just appeared in adult court for a hearing today where a judge ordered him to remain in jail for about two more years.

Just moments ago, the judge ordered four consecutive terms of 180 days in jail. Attorney will reconvene in two weeks to argue for or against the ruling.

Couch became notorious after the got probation for a drunk driving cash -- crash rather in 2013 that killed four people. Prosecutors say his mother helped him flip out of the country to Mexico last year to avoid a probation hearing and potentially jail time.

Well, today is one of the most important days of the hot car baby death case out of Georgia. Remember this one? The first panel of potential jurors is being questioned in Justin Ross Harris' murder trial. He is accused of intentionally leaving his 22-month-old son Cooper to die in a car on June 18th, 2014 when temperatures were outside were in the 90s.

[12:45:10] But inside the vehicle right there, much hotter, 120 degrees. Near the baby's car seat according to a heat analysis study.

And now, before getting to the stage of jury selection, potential jurors had to answer questions like these on a questionnaire. Do you watch legal talk shows, examples included but not limited to Nancy Grace, Ashleigh Banfield, Dr. Drew, Anderson Cooper, et cetera? Have you, or has a friend or family member ever forgotten and left a child or animal in a car even if only briefly? And perhaps the most uncomfortable question of all, have you ever looked at a pornographic website?

CNN Legal Analyst and Criminal Defense Attorney, Philip Holloway joins me now from Atlanta. He practices law in Cobb County, Georgia and was a prosecutor assigned to the same judge in this case. Philip, thank you for coming on.

So these potential jurors they have filled up the questionnaire. Now the competency examination begins. But why are these particular questions in the questionnaire relevant in this case?

PHILIP HOLLOWAY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well good afternoon, Pamela.

The idea behind this questionnaire is basically to get all of the general questions asked of this nearly hundreds of jurors so that once they're brought into the courtroom and they are being questioned individually one by one outside of the presence of the rest of the juror, the reason that they -- it's important to get the general questions out of the way and so that this next process can go so much more quickly.

And I think it does streamline the case. But these particular questions, as you mention even the uncomfortable ones about having looked at internet pornography are relevant to this case because there's so much information in this case that has to deal with these uncomfortable topics.

That being said, I think that one of the most important questions asked on this questionnaire is on page 15, where they're basically asked, is there anybody who like really wants to be on the jury? Anybody who has a particular interest in being on this jury because what they're trying to do, wisely in my view, is to weed out so-called stealth jurors people who have an agenda, people who want to get on this jury and people who want to affect the outcome, whether they're seeking an acquittal, whether they're seeking hung jury or whether they're seeking a conviction.

So weeding out the stealth jurors is very, very important.

BROWN: Is that a common question in cases like this then?

HOLLOWAY: This is the first time I've ever seen it in a questionnaire. I've heard it asked before during Voir Dire or as we say in the south Voir Dire as they say in the North and other parts. I've seen it out, I've never seen all the questionnaire, right. But it is very important and it prevents things like mistrials and it prevents people who have an agenda when they try to get on the jury.

BROWN: So Ross Harris his divorce was just finalized last month. Will his ex-wife testify against him? Is she still standing by her ex? Do we have any idea?

HOLLOWAY: Pamela, she is expected to testify for the defense for sure. She may testify for the prosecution, as well. We know she's on their witness list. They've indicated that they may or may not call her.

I personally suspect that she will testify in both the states case and defense case because I believe that her testimony is going to be necessary to make some of the state's evidence kind of make sense for the time line and other things, perhaps the authentication of certain items of personal property that we'll collect it from her home, which is of course her ex-husband's home at the time.

BROWN: You have such a unique perspective because you actually worked with the judge in this case. What can you tell us about her?

HOLLOWAY: Well, Judge Adele is I think the most senior judge on the bench in Cobb County Superior Court. She has a lot of experience trying major cases, high-profile cases, and death penalty cases. I have prosecuted in front of her and defended cases in front of her. And what I can tell you is that she is the ultimately referee.

She is not the kind of who's going to interject herself into this case. She's going to let the lawyers to be lawyers. She's going to let them try their case. She will make the rulings as they come up, she will address objections as they come up. But she will get out of the way and let the lawyers do their work.

BROWN: All right, Philip Holloway, thank you so much.

[12:49:10] We'll be right back after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Hillary Clinton speaking live in New York right now. She's at the 25th anniversary convention for the Civil Rights Organization National Action Network.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: ... problem of economics inequality. They are also problems of racial inequality. And it is time we face up to the reality of systemic racism in all of its forms. And once we do, we are called to come together to break down all of the barriers that still hold African-Americans back from fully participating in our economy and our society, and together, to build ladders of opportunity and empowerment in their place.

As I have said many times, white Americans need to do a much better job of listening when African-Americans talk about the seen and unseen barriers you face every day. We need to recognize our privilege and practice humility, rather than assume our experiences are everyone else's experiences.

We need to try, as best we can to walk in your shoes, to imagine what it would be like to sit down our son or daughter and have the talk, or if people followed us around stores or locked their car doors when we walked past, this is a discipline that I have recognized and tried to practice in my own life ever since my methodist youth minister took our methodist youth fellowship group from our nearly all-white suburb to worship with black and Latino children in Chicago and to hear Dr. King speak.

[12:55:26] And then, in my first semester at law school, I met a woman named Marian Wright Edelman. Marian was actually here with me the last time I spoke at the National Action Network in 2007. Many of you know her story.

She was the first black woman admitted to the Mississippi bar. A lawyer for the NAACP legal defense fund in Jackson, a friend of Dr. King's and Robert Kennedy's before they were assassinated, all together, a remarkable leader.

Until I met Marian, I wasn't clear how to channel my faith and commitment to social justice, to make both a living and a difference in the world. I went to work for her at the Children's Defense Fund. She sent me to her home state of South Carolina to investigate the problem of black teenagers being incarcerated in adult jails.

And when I look back at everything else I've done, whether it was going under cover in Alabama as a young woman to help expose segregated academies and strip them of their tax exemptions or running a legal clinic at the University of Arkansas to represent prison inmates and poor families, it was part of the same mission, to fight injustice and even the odds for those who have the odds stacked against them in life and in our society. That was true when as first lady I worked with both Republicans and Democrats in congress to create the Children's Health Insurance Program that covers 8 million children. It was true when, as a senator from New York, I worked with parents and doctors and community leaders to take on the epidemic of children's asthma in Harlem and the Bronx. It was true when I worked with the organization 100 black men to create the Eagle Academy, a public school here in New York City whose mission is serving young black and Latino men or when I joined partners in New York, the Congressional Delegation by Charlie Rangel and Greg Meeks to bring jobs and investment to underserved neighborhoods and work with leaders, including my great friend, the late Stephanie Tubbs Jones to protect voting rights.

It was true when I went to David Denkins annual conference last April at Columbia University and Dave, got first policy speech of my presidential campaign about reforming our criminal justice system and ending the era of mass incarceration.

So what I have tried to do, what I intend to keep doing, with your help, is to refuse to accept as normal the fact that black men today are far more likely to be stopped and searched by police, charge with crime and sentenced to longer prison terms than white men convicted of the same offenses.

And we have seen the toll that takes on families, torn apart by set of incarceration in children growing up in homes shattered by prison and poverty. I don't claim to have all of the answers. But I do know how important it is that we address these issues and I applaud the National Action Network for being the champion of this cause and helping to build momentum for reform.

As your senator, I fought against racial profiling and the disparity in sentencing between crack and powder cocaine. As your president, I'll work with you to lead a national effort for end-to-end reform in our criminal justice system. And I will appoint an attorney general who will continue the courageous work of Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch to New Yorkers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Hillary Clinton speaking there at the National Action Network.

And you won't want to miss, Clinton and Sanders in the Democratic debate tomorrow night in Brooklyn that's 9:00 p.m. eastern only on CNN.

And tonight it's Ted Cruz and his wife Heidi on the stage at the third Republican town hall tonight at 9:00.

Well, thank you so much for watching Legal View. I'm Pamela Brown filling in for Ashleigh Banfield.

[13:00:00] Jim Sciutto is in for Wolf. And that show starts now.