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CNN NEWSROOM

US Officials Claim North Korea May Be Ready to Test Mobile Missile Launcher; Australian TV Crew in Lebanese Jail, Charged with Kidnapping; Two Years Have Passed Since Boko Haram Abduction of 300 School Girls; Led Zeppelin Headed to California Court; Equal Pay Day. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired April 13, 2016 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[00:00:11] JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: This is "CNN NEWSROOM" live from Los Angeles; ahead this hour:

ISHA SESAY; CNN ANCHOR: As Kim Jong-Un ramps up his threat, new intelligence suggests North Korea could soon test a quick strike mobile missile that could reach the United States.

VAUSE: Donald Trump, his wife and children talked to CNN at the same time. The Republican Front-runner again accuses his own party of rigging the nomination.

SESAY: And stairway to lawsuit; another court battle for Led Zeppelin, this time over their most popular song.

VAUSE: Hello, everybody; great to have you with us for the next two hours. I'm John Vause.

SESAY: And I'm Isha Sesay; NEWSROOM L.A. starts right now.

Two U.S. officials tell CNN North Korea may be ready to test its first ever mobile ballistic missile which could potentially hit parts of the U.S.

VAUSE: But there's still a lot of questions about the type of missiles the North could fire and their range. CNN's Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr explains.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Kim Jong-Un could be planning an unprecedented military move. U.S. spy satellites have detected early signs that North Korea may, for the first time, be preparing to test a mobile ballistic missile capable of hitting portions of the U.S. The mobile missiles are mounted on huge vehicles like these shown in military parades. The launcher can move quickly, so an attack could come with little or no warning. Even a test launch would have huge international security implications.

BRUCE KLINGNER, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: I think that's going to lead to an epiphany for a lot of experts who have been dismissing the possibility that North Korea could have such a capability for several more years. START: If the Regime proceeds with the launch, the latest assessment

is its most likely to fire the Musudan missile, which the U.S. believes has the ability to potentially hit Guam and perhaps an Shemya Island in Alaska.

Two other missiles being watched are Kn-08 and the Kn-14 mobile ballistic missiles. They have a longer range and are potentially able to hit the Pacific Northwest of the U.S.

U.S. officials caution they cannot even be certain if the missiles would work as advertised. Just this week Kim was in attendance during an intercontinental missile engine test.

The mobile Kn-14 is especially mysterious. North Korea is believed to have displayed it at this military parade last year. The U.S. is not certain what improvements have been made to this newest weapon, but worry it may have increased precision; the concerns compounded by the belief of some in the U.S. intelligence community that North Korea has some type of miniaturized untested nuclear warhead device that could go on top of a missile.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the prudent decision on my part to assume that he has the capability to nuclearize - miniaturize a nuclear weapon and put it on an ICBM.

STARR: U.S. officials strongly emphasize they simply don't know what Kim's next move might be, either with missiles or some type of nuclear device.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: Well CNN's Paula Hancocks is covering the story for us from Seoul, South Korea and joins us now live. Paula, good to have you with us. When it comes to North Korea, timing is everything. Is there any clear line of thinking to explain why North Korea might do something like this at this point in time?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT, via satellite: Well, Isha, there's a very key event on the calendar for Kim Jong-Un, the leader, and that is next month, the Workers' Party Congress. This is a very important conference for the North Korean. It hasn't been held for over well over three decades; so this is something that most experts say he's been building up to throughout the year. We've had a nuclear test back in January. There's been that satellite launch in February and of course as Barbara was mentioning in that piece, the photos that he's shown saying he has miniaturized a nuclear warhead, all of these very big announcements and events for North Korea is something that Kim Jong-Un can go to this Congress with and say look what I have done. Look what I have been successful at.

So really that's the key date that we're looking forward to at this point and it is possible that he will want this kind of a launch to have under his belt as well, going to that conference; but, of course, we simply don't know whether or not this will, in fact, happen. Isha? SESAY: Yes, indeed. It's unclear what they will do if they will do [00:05:02] anything, but all that being said, has there been any reaction from South Korean officials?

HANCOCKS: Yes, we asked the Defense Ministry here about this and an official with that Ministry said to us that back in March, on March 15th, Kim Jong-Un had said that he wanted to test a nuclear warhead and also to test a ballistic rocket that would be capable of launching a nuclear warhead. They said our military has been closely monitoring the possibility of North Korea carrying out a fifth nuclear tests, various ballistic missile tests, including Musudan Kn-08, et cetera, those that you heard in that report. So effectively saying that they have to take the North Korean leader at his word. He said last month he wants to carry out these tests so they have to watch out and be prepared in case he does.

SESAY: all right; Paula Hancocks joining us there from Seoul, South Korea with the very latest. Paula, appreciate it; thank you.

VAUSE: A softer side of Trump was on display at a Town Hall hosted by CNN. The Republican Front-runner, Donald Trump, and his wife and four of his children took questions from the audience.

SESAY: Yes, the children spoke glowingly of their father. Trump responded in kind but the Front-runner still had some tough things to say about the Republican nomination process.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You don't think the RNC wants you to get the nomination?

DONALD TRUMP (R) REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I don't think so; I really don't. I mean, I --

COOPER: You think they're actively working against you?

TRUMP: I don't know. I mean, I don't see it. it's not like I have 15 miles of proof but certainly they should want to have a vote of the people of Colorado. The people of Color -- I've won. I've won so many of the votes. The voting has been phenomenal, that's why I've won so many more states than Ted Cruz and Kasich.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: John Phillips is a talk radio host for KABC here in Los Angeles. He's also a Trump supporter. John, it's been a while. Thanks for being with us.

All of us complaining about the nomination process that we're hearing, actually on both sides of politics, both the democrats and the republicans; I look at it like this: it's a bit like sausage making and Chicago politics. You just don't want to see how it's done and you can throw the nomination process in there because, for the first time, it's actually being exposed. People are seeing it; it's being stress tested and people don't like what they see. JOHN PHILLIPS, TALK RADIO HOST, KABC: I think it's like Tammany Hall because you look at what happened in the state of Colorado. Right after voting was done by the insiders, by the party elite, they put out on their official twitter feed, the Colorado Republican Party, "we did it, #neverTrump."

VAUSE: Okay, stupid thing to do, really.

PHILLIPS: Right, but the parties are in charge of the primary process, all the caucuses and primaries and conventions. If that happened in the general election, if the registrar of voters put out a tweet like that, there would literally be a federal investigation started the next day because it was so crooked. But when it happens in a primary, by a party, people throw their hands up and say oh, that's just the way it works.

SESAY: I'm hearing what you're saying, John, but it was no surprise or it shouldn't have been a surprise to Donald Trump that there were these strong forces against him so that he should have got the ground game together and gone in and been able to work around that and win in a place like Colorado. I mean, at the end of the day there seems to be this unwillingness to recognize that his ground game was lacking.

PHILLIPS: Well that's the only way Ted Cruz could win, because Ted Cruz is very popular where people don't live.

SESAY: It doesn't matter how you win, right?

PHILLIPS: Look at the states with no population and you look at the polls in New York. Donald Trump is polling north of 60-percent in recent polls there. John Kasich is finishing second, not Ted Cruz. The same thing is true in Maryland; the same thing is true in Pennsylvania. Donald Trump is finishing ahead in recent polls in the state of California. So Ted Cruz has to play dirty pool to win. That's what you saw in Colorado. That's what you're seeing in Louisiana.

SESAY: You know your opponent so you're supposed to know how to play the game.

PHILLIPS: Right, but if they cheat then it's different.

VAUSE: Let's move on to Ted Cruz.

SESAY: We could keep going on on that one.

VAUSE: Ted Cruz is making the most of, you know, I guess, this misstep or however you want to characterize what's happening on the Trump side of the campaign. He did a radio interview earlier today and he's now calling Donald Trump "Losin' Donald."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TED CRUZ (R-TX) REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald is a very sore loser. He doesn't handle losing well and he throws a fit. He is crying and screaming and yelling, and he insults people and he curses at people and he attacks people. Donald loves to call people a loser. Donald wakes up at night in cold sweats that people will call him Losin' Donald.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: I bet you have strong feelings about that.

PHILLIPS: Says the man who's finishing third in New York polls and finishing third in other polls.

VAUSE: And something like that won't turn around in New York, will it?

PHILLIPS: No, it's not. No, he's going to lose in all the remaining states that have any kind of population at all. So he's got to, I guess, take what's going to happen to him and turn it around on Trump. It's not going to work. If Donald was "Losin' Donald" then he's "Tammany Hall Ted."

[00:10:02] VAUSE: What I thought was interesting is that Ted Cruz was actually campaigning in California on Monday. California doesn't have a primary for like two months now. But is Ted -- is the path to a contested election through California for Ted Cruz?

PHILLIPS: Absolutely; California is the state that could put Donald Trump over the top, but it is going to be a road game for Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz is a social conservative. Ted Cruz is a man who appeared on stage with a pastor in Iowa who said that gays and lesbians should be put to death. He's going to give a speech in San Francisco trying to mine for votes? Good look with that.

[Laughter]

VAUSE: We all know it's all coming down to the delegates right now. It's all about especially those unpledged delegates. They're going to be the most popular people --

SESAY: How do you keep them in your corner?

VAUSE: Absolutely; so now there's a lot of controversy, a lot of discussion about exactly how far the campaigns can go, what they can do to woo these delegates. Tom Foreman reports on the ins and outs of wooing a delegate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If the Republicans get to a contested convention and if nobody wins on the first two ballots, virtually every delegate out here on the floor would become unbound, meaning he or she can vote as they please, and some believe that could create a yard sale for delegates. What do we mean?

Well, any given delegate showing up here would know what the rules are. The rules say they cannot accept any gifts from corporations or from foreign nationals or from federal contractors. Those are all no- noes; but the rules also say they can accept gifts from political pacts and from individuals.

So if a political pact says you know what? We are supporting one candidate and we'd like to give you first class travel here and a limousine ride to a lavish hotel, where we'll put you up and we'll give you fancy meals while you're here, not trying to buy your vote, just trying to show you how much candidate so and so appreciates you, that might be one form that this could take.

But what if you have an individual donor that supports one of the donors and says, and I'd like to throw in a gift bag? It's going to include some nice snacks, maybe a designer watch, perhaps you can have some new head phones or maybe a tablet computer, maybe tickets to a ball game or some show you'd like to see. Again, under the national rules all of that would be okay.

There may be local rules many the state that keep him from doing it and again, it's not direct buying or selling of a vote, because after all, some will say that what these people really want is access to the candidates, a chance to visit some. Even that might go better if you said come on, we'll discuss the issues over a round of golf at some exclusive club or maybe all the delegates should go away with this candidate to the Bahamas for the weekend to discuss all the issues and the politics around this.

The bottom line is the party says it doesn't really want to see this happen. The campaigns are all suggesting they don't want to see it happen, but the rules say it's okay. So some say there could be supporters out there who may yet want to push a free set of Kasich steak knives or maybe a Cruz cruise or maybe even a Trump helicopter tour to win over those last delegate votes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: Tom Foreman reporting there. John, it is a murky, murky business.

VAUSE: It's bribery.

PHILLIPS: Oh yeah; it's like Oscar goody bags, only filled with everything that (inaudible, laughter) has ever made.

SESAY: John Phillips, it's always a pleasure. You always sum it up so perfectly. Thank you so much. Do come back and see us.

VAUSE: We'll see you next hour.

PHILLIPS: Sounds good; thank you.

SESAY: Well, if you missed the CNN Town Hall of Donald Trump and his family, you can catch the replay here on CNN at 11:00 in the morning in London. Ted Cruz will be joined by his wife Heidi Wednesday in a CNN Town Hall at 9:00 p.m. Wednesday in New York. They'll talk to Anderson Cooper and take questions from the audience; and on Thursday, don't miss the Democratic Presidential Debate, as Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders face-off live from New York. That happens at 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time only on CNN.

VAUSE: We shall move on. Right now an Australian TV crew is sitting in a Lebanese jail. The journalists from the Nine Network's "60 Minutes" have been charged with kidnapping and assault.

SESAY: The reporter, photographer, sound tech and producer were following the story of Sally Faulkner. She's an Australian mother who flew to Beirut to recover her two-young children from her ex-husband. This footage shows the moment the two children were seized from their father. The Lebanese government calls it a kidnapping.

VAUSE: Authorities later took custody of the children and returned them to their father. In all nine people were arrested, and that includes the TV crew.

Peter Ford is an Australian media reporter who broke this story. He joins us now from Melbourne. Peter, good to speak with you again.

So these charges of kidnapping and a few others have actually been laid. What's the process now as all of this sort works its way slowly through the Lebanese legal system?

ROBERT FORD, REPORTER, AUSTRALIA, via satellite: Well, I'm not an expert in Lebanese law, but as I've been briefed, what has happened is that they have been revealed as the intention to charge these people with. So they've not formally been charged. What will happen is over the next few days, we don't know exactly how long, it could stretch into next week, all of those people [00:15:01] who are going to be charged will have the chance to go before the judge, who also doubles up as the prosecutor as well, and they will be questioned and they will have their chance to explain why they should not be charged with these particular charges that are in front of them. Now, it's possible then the judge may decide to downgrade the charges or drop some or even all of them. All of them would seem like an unlikely scenario.

VAUSE: Okay, that would obviously be the best case scenario for the Australians involved in this, as well as the Brits. What's the worst case scenario here?

FORD: Well, some of the time lines put on this are pretty grim. Some people are saying as much as 20 years. Others are being perhaps a little more cautious and saying three years. So we don't know is the honest answer. In the shorter term, of course, the people will have to be formally charged, then a trial date set. It will then have to be determined whether those people given the opportunity for bail and if they are given bail whether their passports have to be surrendered which, would mean they'd have to wait in Lebanon until the trial does take place. So still many unknowns, but at this very moment, as you say, those people are in jail waiting for the next stage.

VAUSE: You know, Peter, some of the reaction online there from some of the Australian - your websites, the media websites, it's been less than supportive of the "60 Minutes" crew, as well as the mother. Would you say that's reflective of most Australians? FORD: I think it's reflective more of people's thoughts about the media than anything. I mean, this was one of those knife-edge things that could have gone either way. Had it all gone to plan, had they got the vision of mom and the kids hugging and coming back to Australia, you know, the "60 Minutes" crew would have been applauded and there probably would have been awards for the story, but because it got botched, because people are now realizing the dangers associated with a story like this, question marks about the agency that was employed to execute this, yeah, people don't have a lot of sympathy.

At the same time, I don't think anybody seriously wants to see anybody spend many years in a prison in Beirut. I think that would be a pretty horrendous scenario, but it's true there isn't a lot of sympathy for the people involved.

VAUSE: Okay, Peter; thank you. Peter Ford there, live this hour from Melbourne; thank you.

SESAY: Time for a quick break. In West Africa Boko Haram is said to be using girls and women more and more as weapons in their attacks. You'll hear from soldiers who say fighting the terror group has become especially difficult.

VAUSE: And later this hour how women are often out-earned by men in the work place; back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [00:21:09] Hello, everyone. Authorities in Panama have raided the global headquarters of the law firm at the center of the "Panama Papers" investigation. They say prosecutors are looking for documents Mossack Fonseca might have to see if a crime was committed.

VAUSE: The firm is accused of creating shell companies and offshore accounts for some of the world's elite so they could dodge taxes. The company says it's cooperating with investigators and nothing illegal was done.

SESAY: Turning to Africa now, and Thursday marks two years since nearly 300 schoolgirls were kidnapped in Chibok, Nigeria by Boko Haram. Some later escaped but other girls faced a terrifying ordeal, being used as weapons by these terrorists.

VAUSE: Soldiers say Boko Haram changes tactics so often it's difficult to know who to trust. CNN's David McKenzie has the story from West Africa.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Crossing into Nigeria on foot with Cameroonian soldiers, headed to remote outposts overlooking the fight against ISIS affiliated Boko Haram, the world's deadliest terrorist group.

The soldiers say their forward operating positions on the mountain come under frequent attack. Boko Haram fighters are based in these villages in the valley, but the

trouble is that positions like this can be ineffective against an increasingly unconventional fight.

CHUNDE BLANDE, CAMEROON ARMY, via translator: Boko Haram changes its tactics all the time. One day they use a conventional attack, the next day an ambush, the following day suicide bombers.

MCKENZIE: So Boko Haram still slips past the soldiers into villages like this one, where they burnt out the pastor's house, destroyed the church, kidnapped scores of girls.

And further from the front, in cities like Murawa (ps), they use abducted girls to kill. Young women came into this market pretending to sell wares to these vendors. The explosion so extreme it blew off the roof. Ten people were killed.

A new report says that increasingly girls and young women are being used in these attacks.

The UNICEF numbers show that the attacks have increased tenfold, with Cameroon targeted the most. Now the market is often empty. Abdurrahman witnessed the last attack.

ABDURRAHMAN, VENDOR: Since that day, when I see a young lady or girl I don't know, I am afraid.

MCDENZIE: Even if they escape abduction young girls like Matawassa suffer. Both her parents were shot by Boko Haram.

MATAWASSA, STUDENT: When they attacked, we ran into the forest with people we did not know. I don't want to go back to my village. The war is there.

MCKENZIE: More than a million children like her have been displaced by this war. To protect their school on the edge of the red zone, vigilante teams patrol, setting up check points, armed with rudimentary weapons. They check every stranger to stop terror attacks, especially girls.

NGUELO MATAKON, VIGILANTE: We focus on the girls. Boko Haram has changed the way we perceive strangers. We don't want it to be this way, but we don't like (inaudible).

MCKENZIE: It's a society turned on its head. Girls should be protected. Here in the far North of Cameroon they are feared.

David McKenzie, CNN, (Inaudible) Cameroon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: And we'll take a short break here. When we come back did Led Zeppelin steal parts of one of its most popular songs? We'll have details on the "Stairway to Heaven" lawsuit that's now heading to a U.S. courtroom. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:28:29] VAUSE: You're watching "CNN NEWSROOM" live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause.

SESAY: And I'm Isha Sesay; the headlines this hour:

(HEADLINES)

[00:30:05] SESAY: Well, the rock band Led Zeppelin is heading to court on May 10th over one of its most famous songs, "Stairway to Heaven."

VAUSE: The question a jury will consider, did Robert Plant and Jimmy Page steal parts of it from a less famous band? Here's Paul Vercammen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, Isha, the lawyers for the surviving members of Led Zeppelin say this suit relies too much on hyperbole and hearsay and gossip, but the lawyer for Randy California, he's the guitarist, the singer/songwriter for the group "Spirit," he says just listen. The songs are just too much the same.

The lawyer for the estate of Randy California will not reveal how much money he is seeking, just that he wants Randy California to get credit, but in the music business if you get credit for song writing, that can be extremely lucrative.

Now this case is going to go deep into the weeds of song structure. In fact, the judge has said that yes, these songs do share what's called a "descending four chord chromatic progression," but he said there are way too many other similarities and that's why they're going to go forward with the trial in May. John, Isha?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: For more on this criminal defense attorney Darren Kavinoky joins us here now. So I guess, Darren, this now comes down to the argument where does inspiration stop and where does ripping off begin? It's going to a jury. This is complicated. I just want to play this for you. This is a breakdown of the difference between these two songs, which was on the internet by a musician called TJR.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TJR, MUSICIAN: Here's where they're different. They both have the same minor chord with a descending baseline that goes (guitar plays) but whereas Taurus goes, stays on E Minor (guitar plays) "Stairway to Heaven" goes (guitar plays) on the E Minor and then goes to D with an F Sharp in the bass and then goes to F Major 7th, goes from G to A minor like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: That guy goes on forever, but my point in all of this is that this is complicated, difficult stuff to understand. This is going before just your every day run of the mill jury. Shouldn't something like this go to a

panel of music experts?

DARREN KAVINOKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, there is a movement to have professional jurors decide cases and this is an argument that's gone on for a long time, that generally speaking when you put 12 people in a jury box you never know what you're going to get. Frankly, that's a compelling reason why cases will settle because settlement allows both sides to know exactly what they're going to get. Here, all bets are off.

VAUSE: You think they'll be trying to settle? If you were advising would you say settle before it gets to a jury?

KAVINOKY: Well it certainly would be a reasonable conversation to have. I mean, cases do settle any time prior to trial, during trial, and even after trial; but once you put the case in the hands of a jury, you really don't know what kind of result you can get.

SESAY: I think it's worth bringing out that Led Zeppelin has been sued before, -

KAVINOKY: Yes.

SESAY: -- on two other occasions for, let's say, making use of other people's -

KAVINOKY: Yes, for perhaps being more than inspiring.

SESAY: Talk to me about whether that will play into this in any way.

KAVINOKY: Well it's a very interesting legal issue. So here, whether or not they've done prior "bad acts" may not necessarily be relevant to their conduct in this particular case. So you can expect that if this trial is indeed going forward, there will be violent argument between both sides about whether the judge would let that in or whether it's what they say is more prejudicial than probative.

SESAY: But often in these cases, isn't it the case that you have to prove not just the similarity, but that the musical -- the material was heard in advance?

KAVINOKY: Right.

SESAY: And that brings in the question of access.

KAVINOKY: Right; that's exactly right. You've got to show that there was an opportunity and you have to show intent. And so here, this idea about [00:35:02] substantial similarity is ultimately what the jurors are going to have to decide.

VAUSE: Okay, so these jurors will be many the same federal courtroom in California, which made a decision last year in favor of the Estate of Marvin Gaye, in the case of Robin Thicke and "Blurred Lines". The jury said Robin Thicke and Pharrell was guilty of basically ripping off and awarded $7.4 million. So what could be looking at here in terms of a damages payout, if this goes to a jury and if they find Led Zeppelin guilty?

KAVINOKY: Well it's so fascinating because if you look at the length of time that this song, "Stairway to Heaven" has been around, it's so iconic, it's well woven into the fabric of American rock music, I think has garnered far more plays than "Blurred Lines" ever did. So using that as just a benchmark, I would think you would expect an even higher jury award; but ultimately, and, again, the wild card is whatever jurors are going to want to do with this really becomes up to them.

SESAY: So do you see, as you look at the situation regarding "Blurred Lines," and now we have this case involving Led Zeppelin, two high profile cases in two years, being heard by a jury, some asking whether this is effectively is going to open the floodgates for more of these cases?

KAVINOKY: And it's so interesting because in the "Blurred Lines" case, counsel for the defendants spoke about exactly that point, that this would open up the floodgates, although one of the things that I would push back a little bit about is that the music industry itself has changed to

where most of the revenue that's driven in the music industry actually is derived by business done on tour, rather than say sales of albums or music downloads and so it becomes questionable about where the actual loss is.

VAUSE: Okay; when we look at the history of these two groups, they do have a history. They've toured together. There's been stuff said in the past.

KAVINOKY: Yes.

VAUSE: What will be that relevance?

KAVINOKY: Well, what's interesting is that the actual author of the song in question appeared to have a very laissez faire attitude about this and is quoted in various reports as saying, basically, if they want to use it, they can have it. It's the Trustee for his Estate that is driving this matter forward. Just one more example of how lawyers can really suck the fun out of everything, but really, one of the things, reading between these two "Blurred Lines", one of the things at play here is whether or not it's revisionist history (inaudible); that is, in hindsight people are looking at this as an opportunity to make money where the original author really didn't mind so much. That could weigh heavily in favor of Led Zeppelin in front of those jurors. You never know what they will hang their hats on.

SESAY: You never know.

VAUSE: Darren Kavinoky, always good to have you in the study --

KAVINOKY: Good to be here.

VAUSE: -- (inaudible) all these legal issues. Thank you.

SESAY: Thank you, Darren. Don't just love attorneys?

VAUSE: Oh, they're great. We like our Darren.

SESAY: Yes, we do. All right; we're going to take a quick break now. Asking for a raise isn't easy. Coming up on CNN, why employers often pay women less than their male counterparts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:40:06] VAUSE: It was "Equal Pay Day" in the U.S. on Tuesday; that's the date which symbolizes how much extra a woman has to work to earn what men were paid last year. Sorry.

SESAY: That's right. On average women work more than three months to make the annual salary of men doing the same job. In the U.S. women are typically paid 79 cents on the dollar compared to men. It's worse for minorities. Hispanic women are paid 55-percent of what white men get. Over a lifetime the pay gap can cost them over $430,000. Outrageous.

VAUSE: Well, this is awkward; at the current rate women's pay won't catch up to men's salaries until 2059. The United States ranks 23rdfor pay disparity among 34 developed countries. It's a serious issue.

SESAY: Yes.

VAUSE: All right.

SESAY: So race, age and education all factor into the wage gap, but research also shows that men are much more likely to ask for a raise than women.

VAUSE: I'm awful at this. I'm terrible, but I guess I am the exception here because apparently men are much more successful at asking for more money. CNN's Claire Sebastian and Samuel Burke tested their negotiation skills.

SESAY: You didn't ask; you just get it anyway.

VAUSE: No I don't.

SESAY: Okay.

VAUSE: Here we are.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLAIRE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's that moment many of us dread.

SAMUEL BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And some of us look forward to. SEBASTIAN: The long walk to the boss's office to ask that crucial

question -

SEBASTIAN AND BURKE: Can I have a raise?

SEBASTIAN: Last year "Glamour Magazine" found 57-percent of women have never asked for a raise.

BURKE: Compared to just 46-percent of men.

SEBASTIAN: We wanted to find out why. So Samuel and I are submitting ourselves to an experiment.

BURKE: So we invited a top New York career coach to the CNN offices and she's going to pretend to be our boss as we do some mock salary discussions.

SEBASTIAN: And we're going to see who performs best.

ELIZABETH CRONISE MCLAUGHLIN, EXECUTIVE COACH: The reality is that men have been conditioned to negotiate because they were earners and because their value has been equated to the amount of money that they bring in, whereas we have not over the course of history.

BURKE: For the experiment we're using our real jobs, CNN journalists.

SEBASTIAN: And, of course, our real personalities.

BURKE: Everything else is based on general aspects of this industry.

SEBASTIAN: Hi.

MCLAUGHLIN: Hi.

SEBASTIAN: How are you?

MCLAUGHLIN: I'm good; how are you?

SEBASTIAN: Good.

BURKE: Hey, boss; good to see you.

MCLAUGHLIN: Good to see you. What can I do for you today?

BURKE: Well I've been going over some of the numbers with HR.

SEBASTIAN: Right from the start, the difference is stark.

MCLAUGHLIN: Scattered eye-contact and your body language was sort of hanging back a bit, and the wringing of the hands.

Sam came in very forcefully. He was face forward here; strong spine; very confident in way he projected his ask.

Generally, the raise we give for good performance is 3-percent.

BURKE: We both decided to ask for more than 3-percent, the average pay rise across average major U.S. employers this year.

SEBASTIAN: We didn't tell each other exactly how much more.

So I wanted to discuss whether we could look at perhaps a slightly higher than average increase this year, maybe around 6-percent.

BURKE: I really think that a 10-percent raise would be reflective of the type of work that I've been doing.

MCLAUGHLIN: it's an issue because most women in come in and negotiate at their bottom line. If you do not come at higher than what you want, there's nowhere to meet in the middle.

SEBASTIAN: So, first, you start high.

BURKE: Then you have to justify it.

It's the sponsorships that I've brought in for the company; the segments that I have been doing have been bringing in more money continuously than any of the other people in our group.

SEBASTIAN: I've been mentoring a lot of the younger member of the team. I'm helping them to kind of discover their own talent.

While I talked about what HR execs call soft skills -

BURKE: I went straight for the bottom line.

MCLAUGHLIN: This is a very standard expected gender differential in the way that men and women negotiate, but when it comes to money, money has to equal money. So what you're bringing in really needs to be the first justification.

BURKE: Did we reach the raise?

MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.

SEBASTIAN: Both of us?

MCLAUGHLIN: Both of you.

BURKE: Different amounts?

MCLAUGHLIN: Different amounts though because you did give me quite enough room. I could come back and say to him, fine, you're getting 6-percent. You asked for 10; I got you 6. You probably would have ended up with 5.

Claire Sebastian and Samuel Burke, CNN Money, New York.

BURKE: Congratulations on your raise.

SEBASTIAN: You too; well done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: Fascinating.

VAUSE: We just got ours. Sam's actually greedy; overly confident.

SESAY: Thank you for watching "CNN NEWSROOM" live from Los Angeles; I'm Isha Sesay.

VAUSE: I'm John Vause. "World Sport" is up next. Thanks for watching.

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