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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Clinton Library Releases Trump Records; New Video Shows Possible Hit And Run In NFL Player's Death; Several New Twists In Will Smith's Shooting Death; Kasich Lays Out "Two Paths" For America and Distances Himself From Trump and Cruz; Paul Ryan To Rule Out Nomination Bid, According To Aide. Aired 12:30-1p

Aired April 12, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Clinton's administration, certainly aware of Donald Trump, certainly looking at him as you consider this presidential run in 1999.

[12:30:08] That was the first time that he announced an exploratory committee ultimately deciding not to officially run for president until well, where we stand today.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: No birthday card in 1996. I'm betting they'll be no birthday in 2016 either.

Jeremy Diamond, fascinating to hear that. Thank you to much.

Interesting day today, just so happens today marks the one-year anniversary of when Hillary Clinton launched her campaign for president.

So we're going to bring Brian Fallon, the press secretary for Hillary for America. Brian, thanks so much for being with us. I got to ask you about the news that we're just learning out of Capitol Hill.

Paul Ryan sort to give a speech in three hours, where he intends to lay to rest, to rule out conclusively the possibility that he would be a candidate for president at the convention. Your reaction?

BRIAN FALLON, PRESS SECRETARY, HILLARY CLINTON FOR AMERICA: Well, I don't have much of a reaction. We'll see how definitive he is in his statements today. Although I would point out this is sort of the same way he campaigned for speaker of the house, making Shermanesque statements. So you can never tell.

I think that the biggest take away is, it just proves the level of dissatisfaction that exist within the Republican Party itself over the candidates that they have running. Clearly the Republican Party realizes that none of them are going to be in a good position to defeat Hillary Clinton in a general election. That's what we're focused on.

BERMAN: It's interesting though, you've have same reaction the Trump supporter did moments ago. You're not quite sure you believe Paul Ryan when says, he won't do it.

FALLON: We'll see.

BERMAN: Donald Trump on the stump last night. All of a sudden talking a lot about Hillary Clinton saying her life is one big lie, beautiful lie, he said that. He said, she's guilty on the issue of the e-mail controversy. Your reaction to Donald Trump?

FALLON: Look, you know, Donald Trump I think has been independent fact checkers that said that nobody spewed more falsehood out on the trail last year than Donald Trump.

We know that because Hillary Clinton has been so direct and aggressive about calling him out, condemning his insulting statements and challenging him on his many positions that will take us backward that Donald Trump's response that is going to be the sling personal insults. We're ready for that.

Hillary Clinton has fared against Republican attacks for many years now. Donald Trump is not going to silence her.

BERMAN: It's interesting you have an ad out now about Donald Trump. I'm curious about when or if you'll start talking about Ted Cruz.

FALLON: Well look, I think that in the general election, Hillary Clinton would be well suited against any of the people that the Republicans could put forward.

You know, Ted Cruz and Donald Trump are on the same page on many of the most important issues that would define the debate in a general election.

So right now, I know that Donald Trump is getting all the attention based on his delegate lead. But I don't think that Ted Cruz would put the Republicans in any better of the position in the general election.

BERMAN: Should we read anything in to the fact that you guys are running ads about Donald Trump that you think he's going to be the nominee as opposed to Ted Cruz, you don't talk on him as nearly as much?

FALLON: Well we have called him out too, when he has made outrageous statements as well. In the aftermath of the Brussels attack when he called for surveillance to take place in the Muslim neighborhoods here in the United States.

Hillary Clinton was very quick to condemn those comments. So she has really spoken out against any of the Republican candidates whenever they have made outrageous positions whether it's Ted Cruz or Donald Trump.

BERMAN: We seem to moved past, at least temporarily the issues of these two candidates, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders saying or not saying whether the other one is qualified to be president. Are you confident to that issue has passed?

FALLON: Well, I do think that the Sanders campaign has just found a more artful way to lodge the same accusation. Last week they were talking about her being unqualified. They got a good amount of blow back across the board for those statements. This week they're refining it a little bit and suggesting that she doesn't have the "Judgment" to be president.

It's essentially repackaging the same attack. I don't think it will ring through a Democratic voters. And I think that the reason why they're lurching in the style of these attacks is because here on the great stage of the New York primary, where you can't fake it. Where its prime time all the time, I think the scrutiny is not serving Senator Sanders well. He is not being able to answer many questions that are being put to him. This is a level of scrutiny, I don't think he has countered to date in this campaign.

And I think you saw what that the Daily news editorial board interview that he had last week that he just, he's unable to explain or put up the details on many of the signature proposals. This suggests that he is untested and it's exactly the reason why we think that New York Democrats will choose Hillary Clinton because with the stakes so high with the potential of either Ted Cruz or Donald Trump in the general election, we need somebody that is tested and has the toughness and the tenacity to take on the ...

BERMAN: Didn't you just do exactly what you accused the Sanders campaign of doing no longer saying he's not qualified, shifting to judgment. Hillary Clinton before won't answer whether Bernie Sanders is qualified.

Now, you shifted right here to say he can't handle the glare and he is untested. It's just more words for the same thing. You are saying Bernie Sanders is ...

FALLON: No. There's a difference here. We're not questioning his fundamental fitness to hold the office. And Hillary Clinton has said it. Of course he's qualified to be president. She has said he's qualified to be president. And then obviously he would make a far better president than any of the other Republicans running.

But if you're a Democratic primary voter here in New York you have to make a decision about who's best qualified. And we think that they will make the judgment that it's Hillary Clinton by a mile.

[12:35:01] BERMAN: The debate Thursday night right here on CNN. Both candidates can make the case directly to the voters.

Brian Fallon, great to see you, thank you so much.

Again, a reminder that is Thursday night the debate takes place in Brooklyn, 9:00 p.m. only on CNN.

We're get it back to politics in just a moment.

But first a new video released in the alleged murder of former NFL player Will Smith. What police are learning from this new video? That's right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: New video revealing more clues and raising more questions in the shooting death of Former NFL star Will Smith.

He was gunned down in New Orleans after his car was rear ended, one surveillance video taken before the shooting though show appears to show Smith's SUV behind the suspect's hummer.

[12:40:02] Police say minutes later, Cardell Hayes rear ended his Smith SUV and then shot Smith after an argument.

Martin Savidge brings us up to date.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Newly released video captured moments after the shooting death of former Saints defensive end Will Smith.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he shot?

SAVIDGE: Reveals the shock of eyewitnesses and the sounds of anguish from his wife.

You can hear Racquel Smith pleading for help.

RACQUEL SMITH, WILL SMITH'S WIFE: I need an ambulance. My leg has been shot.

SAVIDGE: In the video you will also see the suspect Cardell Hayes and the passenger in his car being handcuffed by police.

An eyewitness describes the deadly altercation with that for Hayes' rear ended Smith approaching the New Orleans intersection. The witness says the former NFL star claimed he also had a gun.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He starts freaking out on this guy, like I'm going to fight you, and then he's like, I guess this guy was like, get out, I have a gun. And he goes -- I've got one too. And he grabs his gun and then shoots him in the back. He's dead.

SAVIDGE: Hayes' defense attorney points to this tape as reason to believe that there may have been a second gun on the scene.

Bur police say they've only recovered one weapon and that's Hayes' handgun.

JOHN FULLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR CARDELL HAYES: I can tell you that my client was not the aggressor in terms of the behavior that happened after the accident.

SAVIDGE: John, since that aftermath video has come to light, there was new video that come to light, surveillance video because the attorney for Cardell Hayes has maintained that this began before the shooting that occurred here at this intersection. In fact he said it happened a couple of minutes before and a couple of blocks away at which Hayes maintains he was actually struck himself, his car by a silver Mercedes SUV. And that's what the surveillance video seems to show. It's a little bit earlier in the evening, there you see the orange hummer. And there you see that silver SUV come very, very close. It appears they might have touched and then you see the hummer pull to the side as to maybe inspect the damage. But instead the SUV goes roaring past.

That is why Hayes says he was pursuing the SUV and why they ended up here. It doesn't account for the gun fire but it seems to verify his story is to how this all began. John?

BERMAN: All right, Martin Savidge thank you so much.

I want to bring in our Legal Analyst Joey Jackson. Joey, we've been looking at the surveillance video. We also now know an eyewitness claims that he heard Smith say he had a gun.

Now police say they only recovered one gun. The shooter's here in this case. But if Hayes thought that Smith had a gun, how does that change the situation?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's very important and here's what we're looking at John, we're looking at whether not it was a justifiable homicide, OK.

Now, he's facing a second-degree murder charge. That's his life really that he get upon a conviction. But the argument is going to be threefold.

Number one, I perceived a threat. Number two, that threat was immediate and deadly. Number three, I used force that was proportionate to the threat that was posed to me.

I think the third prong of that becomes problematic because apparently there are six different shots. But it goes to the issue of state of mind. What was the state of mind of Hayes at the time he fired the shot, was it retaliatory, was it road rage, did he lose his cool? Was it malicious or intentional? Or was it that he really believed because this was think this uttering of I have a gun by Will Smith allegedly from some witness about because Will Smith has gun and now he rear ended me previously, he didn't stop when I pulled over, who's this guy? What's his state of mind? Is he a law-abiding citizen? Does he represent harm to me and do I need to protect myself?

And I think that's where this case is going to fall. I should also hasten to add that we're talking about a state where there's no duty to retreat. We talked many times John about the issue of stand your ground. You don't have a duty to retreat and move. So if you feel that you are in imminent danger you can thereby discharge your weapon.

BERMAN: And that's how we figures in to whether or not he had a gun, who was pursuing whom. But what about the number of shots because you brought that up, six shots fired by Hayes, not just at Will Smith but his wife Racquel was hit as well. How does that play?

JACKSON: I think it's problematic for the following reason. You have the ability a defend yourself. But the force you use has to be proportionate to the threat posed.

But here's how the argument will play out. On the one end you can argue that, that's excessive. You fired six times. There needs to be a justification John for each shot you fired. Why did you fire that shot.

On the other hand, in the even that it could be established that Will Smith was advancing towards him he has no ability to reassess, OK, I will shoot and reassess. I believe I'm danger so I'll shoot, shoot, shoot. And that's going to be that's the argument.

BERMAN: Big questions are asking right now.

Joey Jackson, thanks for bringing that for us. Appreciate it.

Up next, Governor Kasich gave a very, very big speech today. The campaign was hyping this for a lack of a better word. They were pointing us to it saying, it was crucial for them, laying out two possible paths for America, one based on anger and resentment and another one on hope.

[12:45:06] It's another question is there a possible path for John Kasich to the White House?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, just a short time ago without naming names exactly Governor John Kasich slammed both his Republican opponents in the race for the White House, in a speech in New York who was entitled two paths.

The governor called Donald Trump and Ted Cruz saying they have chosen one path. But he is choosing another, a better way.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KASICH, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Some will feed off of the fears and anger that is felt by some of us and exploit to feed their insatiable desires for fame or attention.

That could drive America down in to a ditch and not make us great again. Just as disturbing are the solutions they offer. We've heard proposals to create a religious test for immigration, to target neighborhoods for surveillance, to deport 11.5 million people, to impose draconian tariffs, which would crush trade and destroy American jobs.

[12:50:13] We have heard proposals to drop out of NATO, abandon Europe to Russia. Possibly use nuclear weapons in Europe and end our defense partnerships in Asia and tell our Middle East allies that they have to go at it alone.

We've been offered hollow promises to impose a value-added tax, balance budgets through simple, whimsical cuts in waste, fraud and abuse. There's no office that has the title of waste, fraud and abuse.

I've stood on the stage and watched with amazement as candidates wallowed in the mud viciously attacked one another, called each other liars, and disparaged each other's character.

Those who continuously push that type of behavior are not worthy of the office they are seeking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I'm joined now by Ron Christie. He was a special assistant to President George W. Bush. Now, supports Governor Kasich, actually worked for John Kasich when he's in the House of Representatives for years.

Ron, thanks so much for being with us.

RON CHRISTIE, KASICH SUPPORTER: Nice to see you.

BERMAN: The Kasich campaign they were applauding to the speech as a very important moment in this campaign, not just in New York but really, you know, from here on out. They are laying down a marker. What is it, exactly?

CHRISTIE: Well, the marker is this, they're saying why is Governor Kasich still in the race, why is he still running for president of the United States?

And I think he gave a very clear and concise manner and message of why he is. There are two paths for it John, you can either take the low road and he is consistently said, I will not take the low road to the highest office in the United States. That's point number one.

Point number two, he led a very positive agenda for the country. Why it is important for us to be a strength and strong ally to our neighbors abroad and demonstrate strength to those who may want to hurt us.

And so Governor Kasich laid out a very clear, a very concise path of why he's in the race, why it's important that voters have different choice than the other two gentlemen you mentioned and why he's still sticking on this.

BERMAN: The metaphors though they do write themselves, right. The question is, is there a path for John Kasich to the White House? There's a lot of new polling out today, one of the new polls (inaudible) Time Warner Cable News and Baruch College which has Donald Trump at 60 percent in New York.

John Kasich is in second. But all the way down at 17 percent. So, you know, John Kasich is getting more attention now than he has received in a long time.

You know, the whole speech played here on CNN last night in a town hall meeting here. If with all that attention, if even with this big speech of the campaign says it's significant and he was quite eloquent. If it doesn't make a dent here, is there anywhere it can make a dent?

CHRISTIE: Of course I think it is going to make a dent a here. What's different about the empire state is you have 27 congressional districts, if Governor Kasich wins over 50 percent of the votes in those congressional districts, he gets those three delegates. You can start adding up delegates around New York State. He has a viable path. If you look at Pennsylvania, if you look at some of the states like Connecticut where he's going to be very strong, where he can be very compelling to a lot of people who are saying, we don't want the rhetoric, we don't want the fighting. We want someone who's a demonstrative leader. We want John Kasich.

BERMAN: Now, while John Kasich was giving that speech, just as it ended, we got word that Paul Ryan is giving a speech later today in Washington at 3:00 p.m. at the Republican National Committee Headquarters where he is going to say conclusively that he will not be a candidate for president at the convention. He doesn't want it. He's not going to do it. His people say, he's going to lay it to rest conclusively if that's possible.

Do you think this helps John Kasich for a lot of parlor jots, you know, on Twitter, not saying, "Whoa, this might be good for Kasich. This means he might be the establishment alternative at the convention."

CHRISTIE: Look, I've known Paul Ryan for 25 years. He has consistently told me he does not want to be president. I think he's putting this to rest right now. Does it help Kasich? No, this doesn't help John Kasich.

John Kasich, is looking for votes, he's looking for delegates. He's not looking to see what other people are doing. He's trying to go his path, for his own way and talk to convincingly to the American people as to why he's the best choice.

BERMAN: John Kasich also said he doesn't want to be vice president, right. Donald Trump gave an interview to USA today which came out over night, where he actually listed Governor Kasich as one of the people he might consider to be vice president along with Scott Walker and Marco Rubio.

Kasich though says, no. But to be fair Ron, even in this game a long time. Everyone says no when they're asked, if they want to vice president.

CHRISTIE: John Kasich is a man who means what he says. And he says what he means.

He doesn't want to be vice president. He's running for president right now John. We have so much more runway to go. So much more delegates to collect, so many more constituents to talk to. He's not looking at number two. He's looking at number one.

BERMAN: But you've done national politics, does he look at Ohio, look, oh, he's the governor of Ohio, man, would he help on a ticket. You know, it would be attractive to a national ticket if he came to that. CHRISTIE: Look, I think that there are those who would look at Governor Kasich as a leader. When we need to win in November and we need to reclaim the White House from the Democrats. Can help in that endeavor, yes. He wants to do it as the nominee and as the candidate John, not as the number two.

[12:55:01] BERMAN: All right, we have about 30 seconds left Ron, I want to talk about New York, let's end right here.

Is there a number that he needs to hit here in New York in terms of delegates or percentage of the vote to remain viable?

CHRISTIE: No, I mean we're not looking at this. The campaign I should is not looking at this, we need to hit X percentage or Y percentage. It's the continual collection of delegates here in New York, Oregon Connecticut, Pennsylvania. All these remaining states such that when we get to the convention in Cleveland, John Kasich can make a compelling case on the floor is to why he ...

BERMAN: What if it is zero here?

CHRISTIE: Oh, it's not going to be zero.

BERMAN: There you laid it out right there. So walk up right there for Ron Christie. Thank you so much for doing this, I really appreciate it.

CHRISTIE: Thank you.

BERMAN: Tonight's CNN Town Hall, they continue with the Trump family. Donald Trump, his kid, his wife. That's 9:00 eastern.

And then tomorrow night, we're going to hear from Ted Cruz and Heidi Cruz.

Again there is breaking news out of Capitol Hill. House Speaker, Paul Ryan set to give a speech in just a few hours where we're told he'll rule out any possibility of running for president at the convention, accepting the nomination.

We'll discuss right after a quick break.

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