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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Paris Attack Suspect Arrested. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 8, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Stu, Doug, Scottie, thank so much, guys, for being with us. Appreciate it.

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BERMAN: "Legal View" starts now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

We're going to begin with this breaking news of the new arrest in Belgium in connection with that Brussels attack. That information coming from the Belgian prosecutor's office. Belgian media have even further reporting. They're saying that this man, Paris attack suspect Mohamed Abrini is one of the men arrested in Belgium today. That said, a counterterror official tells CNN it's simply too soon to know for sure whether in fact that is the case or not.

CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank is with me now, along with CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson, who is live with us from London. CNN chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto and CNN intelligence and security analyst Bob Baer, also with me now, former CIA operative.

I want to get right down to what we know and the significance of it. Paul Cruickshank, I'm going to begin with you. You have been working your sources most of the morning. Do they feel confident that this Belgian broadcaster may actually have the right information, that they have caught one of the most important people in the Paris attacks?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: I just spoke to a senior Belgian counterterrorism official. They tell me they are hopeful that one of the men they arrested earlier today is Mohamed Abrini, but they cannot say that yet with certainty. Why can't they say that with certainty? Because when you go in and make one of these arrests, somebody's name is not written on their forehead in terms of who you've got, who you've brought into custody. They need to verify it through fingerprint analysis, through DNA, though other methods. If we know something about this terror cell, the terror cell behind the Paris and Brussels attacks, they've been using fake identities.

BANFIELD: Aliases.

CRUICKSHANK: They've been using aliases, disguises.

BANFIELD: Multiple aliases.

CRUICKSHANK: And so they need to be absolutely sure they've got the right guy before they're going to make a public announcement. They are certainly hopeful that they do have him in custody.

BANFIELD: This is him. These are the - these are the pictures when Mohamed Abrini was photographed with Salah Abdeslam, who has been captured. And this was, what, just a matter of days before the Paris attacks. Those close circuit television images were captured at a gas station not far away from where the actual attacks happened.

CRUICKSHANK: That's right, Ashleigh. So in the 48 hours before the Paris attacks, Salah Abdeslam, who has now been captured, and Mohamed Abrini were in a car together going back and forth between Brussels and Paris. They are suspected to have transported the Paris attack cell from various safe houses in Brussels, also other parts of Belgium, to Paris in the 48 hours before the attack.

Abrini then disappears and he's been one of the most wanted men in Europe since. Very much somebody working as part of this terror cell that carried out the attacks in Paris. The very same terror cell also then carried out those attacks in Brussels.

BANFIELD: Brussels. So that's where I want to bring in Nic Robertson. You just heard Paul Cruickshank talking about how Europe is on red alert for this man. How much is there some wisdom, Nic Robertson, that Abrini may, in fact, have an integral role in what happened in Brussels?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The fact that it's part of the same cell, the fact that he knew Salah Abdeslam, the fact that they were both on the loose in the intervening period between the Paris and Brussels attacks speaks to that possibility. Had they tried to avoid each other because they both knew that they were being searched for? Had they both just slipped in and were hiding in the same place with the same network, almost, you know, yards from their childhood doors. They'd been friends since childhood. They trusted each other. So there's every potential that he was.

But what if it is Abrini - and we have to say if it is Abrini because we don't know at this time. Belgian authorities haven't confirmed that to us, as Paul says, because there's a lot more checking they need to do - but you can imagine this would be huge for both Belgian and French investigators. Why? Because on the one hand, they already have Salah Abdeslam. On the other hand, they get one of his co- conspirators. So now whatever questions they ask Salah Abdeslam about what happened in Paris, what was behind the scenes there, how big was the network, who you connected with, all those details, the same for Brussels, they have someone else they can check that information off against, Abrini. They can do the same with Abrini. They have two sources of information here and that puts the authorities in a much stronger position than having just one person who might be lying or dissembling or telling partial truths.

[12:05:04] BANFIELD: Bob Baer, is it coincidence that just within 24 hours or so of a mass release of surveillance video tracking the man in the tan jacket with the big hat who was spotted in the Brussels airport just moments before the bombs went off, actually rolling a cart beside the two suicide bombers. It is coincidence that we now have several arrests in Belgium and that video has gone all over the world, most specifically all throughout Belgium for people to look at with an appeal saying, if any of this looks familiar to you, if the man walking in that video looks familiar, if his gait looks familiar, if you've seen the jacket that he threw away along the route, help us help you to find these people.

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Oh, definitely, Ashleigh. Well, first of all, he had gone to ground, probably a safe house that they were unaware of. He wasn't using his own identity or on e-mail or on cell phones. So the police did absolutely the right thing by taking all the pictures they had and put them out in public and just hoping for good luck. And that's probably what happened if this is Abrini.

But what's extraordinary for me is the fact that he was involved - clearly involved in the 13 November attack in Paris. One of the most wanted men in Europe. Still, if in fact he was involved in the airport attack, he then carried out a second attack. I find that very disturbing that he felt confident enough to get out, put the two bombers in the airport and supervise these guys, if, in fact, that was him.

BANFIELD: The timing issue I need to add to that question, and that is, we are weeks since the Belgium attacks. Why are we just now seeing this video? Time is of the essence with these people. They are elusive. They can cross borders so easily in Europe. God, they could cross a border into the United States. Why would it take weeks for them to put that video out saying, have you seen this man?

BAER: I think it's a mistake. They should have put it out right away. I mean, you know, I think the Belgians are just not very good at this. They have a dysfunctional police force. They've - all these people have been operating almost in the open in Brussels when they've carried out attacks. From the museum attack to the Paris attacks in Vevia (ph) and so forth, and yet they seem to operate with impunity. I don't think they could get away with this if they were based in Paris or Berlin or someplace else. It's just the Belgian police have had some problems.

BANFIELD: And, Jim Sciutto, to that point, there's been some reporting this week, and my suspicion is that much of it has come from U.S. sources, that the tools that are available to counterterror forces in Europe have not been exploited properly, have not been used properly and, in fact, have been ignored. This is a simple tool. This is - this is crime fighting 101 to find a missing child to put out video like this. Does this now prove those sources correct in that they're just not using the tools properly to try to find these people in a timely manner?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: This is the way it's been described to me by multiple U.S. intelligence and counter terror officials, and that is that European intelligence agencies, and not just the Belgians, frankly, have a pre-9/11 mentality in terms of the way they share information. There are many more restrictions. They're not sharing, not even between countries, solely between countries, but even within - between agencies within countries. And you remember this, Ashleigh, pre-9/11, these were one of the criticisms of the 9/11 Commission, that you had competitive relationships, to some degree, between the FBI, CIA, all things that were addressed after 9/11. But this is not a leap that - at least in the view of U.S. intelligence officials, that European agencies have made to the degree that they need to. And when you see the nexus between Belgium and France, not only on the Paris attacks, but also likely on the Brussels attacks, that that is key. That's a key weakness.

The other thing I would say is that - that they have not done the necessary testing to get 100 percent confirmation that this is Mohamed Abrini. Listen, they know his face very well.

BANFIELD: Ys.

SCIUTTO: I would say if they have him in custody now, or someone else, they'll know very quickly with confidence if it is Abrini or not.

BANFIELD: My suspicion is that we are minutes away from finding out that this is in fact him or not. It's not something that the Belgians have any interest in keeping quiet that we know of yet. But, you know what, we don't know everything. And here's something else we don't know. The four of you, I'm going to ask you to ponder this over the break. I need the answer to it. While Americans listen to this news about arrests made in Belgian, and arrests made in France and terror in Belgium and terror in France, should they be concerned about those cells and their ability to move, not only freely about the countries over there, but freely into this country here? That story's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:13:42] BANFIELD: Welcome back to our breaking news.

I want to show you some video as I tell you that the Belgian authorities have made some very significant arrests in connection with the terror attacks that have plagued Europe in the last several months. The video of the man in the tan jacket that you are seeing on your screen right now has been washed across the press all over Europe in the last 24 hours. That's because the Belgian authorities released it.

These are just the moment after the Brussels airport explosion and subway explosions claimed 31 lives, injured about 270 others. Finally, weeks after, the surveillance video of the path this man took after the bombings have been released. This is the man who was spotted at the airport rolling his luggage cart beside the two suicide bombers. The man in the tan jacket with the big hat. The mystery man they've been tracking, desperately tracking, but for some reason have not asked us to help track him. There he is on the right.

You probably got sick of seeing that picture over and over. A still, fuzzy, grainy picture. That's all we had to go on from the Belgian police. Thank you very much for the picture, but little did we know there was so much video, as well. Closed-circuit video of a path he took that went on and on after he left the airport.

Well, a day ago it was released and is it coincidental there have been several arrests today. There was a plea that went out to people who may have seen this man anywhere along that path to help the police to find him.

[12:15:13] I'm joined now again by my panel, CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank, CNN chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto, and CNN intelligence and security analyst Bob Baer.

Before we went to break, I asked the specific question about the significance of the way these terrorists move about the countries of Europe. But the bigger question for a lot of people watching in America, do they have the same kinds of freedoms? Is it as easy for them to break out of the big cell there to make maybe a big cell here?

Bob Baer, what are the challenges we're facing here with regard to this?

BAER: The challenges are daunting, Ashleigh. The fact is that the visa waiver program, you're in Europe, you make a reservation to the United States. You get into a tour group. ICE, the FBI, you know, have maybe 24 hours to check out a name. And if they're not in a database, any one of these suicide bombers could show up in New York. And the fact is, the Europeans do not share all their databases with the United States. If they have somebody who's a suspect, maybe a convert to Islam or a convert to the Islamic State, they won't just simply send that suspicion forward. It's just a - it's a hunch.

So, yes, it would be very easy to transport a cell to the United States, acquire weapons locally, TATP, peroxide acetone bombs, and do the same thing. Has it happened? No. Will it happen? I have no idea. But it's - logistically it's easy.

BANFIELD: It's daunting to think we're relying on the same authorities who, up until the airport explosion and the subway explosion in Brussels, thought that the killer pair of brothers involved were just a couple of, you know, mafioso (ph) types, you know, petty criminal types that weren't connected at all to terror. That certainly wouldn't show up on our radar if it's not showing up on theirs.

Jim Sciutto, to you. The connection that needs to be mined between those responsible in Paris and those responsible in Brussels, tell me why that is of such grave importance, not only to the Europeans but to the Americans?

SCIUTTO: Because it shows the ability of these groups to operate beyond their borders, right? We already know that they have great freedom to move from the battlefields in Syria, the training grounds, frankly, for jihadis in Syria into Europe. We saw that with the majority of the Paris attackers a ties in the Brussels attacks as well. Abrini himself traveled to Turkey and it's believed possibly to Syria, too. So, one, the freedom of movement from the battlefields to Europe. And then once they're in Europe, back and forth between European countries. And we've seen that with the many ties we now know between the Brussels attacks and the Paris attacks, including today the fact that if this is Abrini, of course a key player in the Paris attacks, arrested at the same time as someone who had contact with the man who blew himself up on the subway in the Brussels attack. So that is key.

The larger point I would make about the U.S., and there is great concern about how these cells move, possibly move attackers and suicide bombers, et cetera, into the U.S., is, the U.S. does not have the number of jihadis that Europe does. It doesn't have the proximity to the battlefields in Syria and Iraq that Europe does. It also doesn't have the shangin (ph) borders, this sort of strange term, but, in effect, visa free travel throughout those European countries. So - so the scale of the problem is different there, but as Bob noted, visa free travel, visa waiver program from Europe to the U.S. does make it very plausible for those attackers to come here. And then beyond that, Ashleigh, and you and I have talked about this before, you don't even have to cross the ocean, right, because ISIS has shown its ability to radicalize people here in the U.S. who -

BANFIELD: Online.

SCIUTTO: May never have been to Europe, or may never have been to Syria. And those lone wolves are certainly of great concern to U.S. authorities.

BANFIELD: So to that particular point, Paul Cruickshank, the idea that the president put forth not too long ago that adds to Jim Sciutto's list of why maybe the cells are proliferating more, are more deadly, dangerous, hateful in Europe than here. He said we don't ghettoize the Muslim community in the United States the way perhaps the Europeans do. There are all sorts of programs available, integration here, schooling that's not, you know, separated and that there are options. There's a social safety network for a lot of Muslims here. My concern is that these kinds of people who are willing to blow themselves up, do they really respond to that kind of thing? If they do make it through the visa waiver program and they do make it to the United States, are they the kinds of people who can actually be softened to the delightful nature that is Americana?

CRUICKSHANK: Look, if ISIS decides to send a terror cell to the United States, and they definitely have that ambition, they will be here for one reason, to try to launch an attack.

BANFIELD: Because Mohamed Atta and his crew certainly didn't give a damn about American lifestyle.

[12:20:01] CRUICKSHANK: The difference between now and the period before 9/11 is that the U.S. is much more vigilant when it comes to border security, with people coming in. It's much more difficult to infiltrate terrorists into the United States than into Europe because they can essentially just drive into Europe. They - or pose as refugees or come through porous borders. Much more difficult to get all the way into the United States. And there's also the crucial point that in the United States they just do not have these logistical support structures in place that they have in places like Belgium and France right now.

These individuals who carried out the Paris and Brussels attacks, they grew up in these neighborhoods. They know these cities. They know how to operate there, how to organize a terror plotting from there (ph). More difficult for them to do that in a country that they do not know, the United States. And so the one good thing the United States has got going for it, as you say, is the fact that the United States Muslim community, very well integrated, very low levels of radicalization. But there is concern that a small minority are hearing that ISIS clarion call.

BANFIELD: Sure.

CRUICKSHANK: Some trying to go and join them there and some - and we've seen cases over the last year or so wanting to launch attacks in the name of ISIS.

BANFIELD: Right, San Bernardino.

CRUICKSHANK: One of those attacks in San Bernardino, that's right.

BANFIELD: There you go. It only take a's one or two or a husband and wife with a child that can still perpetrate this kind of thing.

To the three of you, thank you for the insight. I said it could be minutes until we find out some confirmation as to whether it is Mohamed Abrini who they've arrested, one of the most sought after people in the terror attacks in Europe. We're going to continue to monitor that story and bring that to you. Confirmation or not, you will find out right here. Thank you to the three of you, Jim Sciutto, Bob Baer and Paul Cruickshank, appreciate it.

And coming up next, the race for the White House. The Democrats have really changed their tone today. It's really kind of surprising when you see what a difference a day can make. Donald Trump has changed his plans, too. He says he'll go big and stay home. What does that mean? Stay right here for all that. And the tug-of-war over those pesky, pesky delegates.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:26:37] BANFIELD: Breaking news I want to bring you right now, and this time we're going to San Antonio, Texas, for it. I want to take you specifically to the Lackland Air Force Base, a sprawling military training facility there. Something happened that we did not expect to happen today, and that's why you're seeing all of those flashing lights. Pentagon officials telling CNN that an airman shot his squadron commander. And authorities at the base say that both of those people are now dead. A few minutes ago, the installation commander spoke with reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BRIG. GEN. ROBERT LABRUTTA, INSTALLATION COMMANDER, JOINT BASE SAN ANTONIO: This morning we received one of those calls that you never want to receive. We did have a situation here at Lackland Medina Annex, where we felt as though there might be an active shooter situation. That was confirmed, unfortunately, for all of us.

I will tell you that I will confirm - I saw it on news broadcasts - that we do have two victims. Both of those victims have been determined to be deceased. We will not go into the specifics regarding those victims. As you all can very well understand, our hearts and prayers go out to the families that are going to be affected by this tragedy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It is never good when the brigadier general has to come out to address the press in this way.

Lackland, by the way, was on lockdown for quite a while after the shooting took place. The authorities there specifically saying that they do not believe that this is a terrorism-related shooting. Let me repeat that, at this point they don't believe there's terror involved. But we're going to bring you more details just as soon as we get them.

And I also want to bring you some other breaking news out of Texas. This time in Austin. There is a suspect now in custody who they say they believe is connected to the death of this young woman, Haruka Weiser. This is the young woman you may have heard the news broadcast about, the University of Texas freshman who sadly was found dead this week. Dead on the university campus. Police say the suspect is a homeless 17-year-old and that he now is in the process of being charged with her murder. And firefighters said that they found signs that someone was trying to burn some of the victim's belongings and that someone called the police. Haruka Weiser was just 18 years old.

I want to turn you now to the race for the White House. The presidential candidates are in a New York state of mind. And rightly so because the biggest delegate jackpot of the month and really one of the biggest of the entire year, it's up for grabs in just 11 days, folks. All of this as Hillary Clinton and her Democratic rival, Bernie Sanders, are pretty much cooling all that rhetoric that you'd been seeing blazing up your airways. The last couple of days, I think we can all agree, have been pretty tense. Forget that talk over who is and who isn't qualified to be president. Things are a little different today. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, that will be up to the voters of New York and the other states that will be passing judgment in the weeks ahead. I think it's kind of a silly statement, but he's free to say whatever he chooses.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he qualified to be president?

CLINTON: Well, here's what I believe. I believe that voters will be looking at both of us, but I will take Bernie Sanders over Donald Trump or Ted Cruz anytime.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I've known Hillary Clinton for 25 years. I respect Hillary Clinton. We were colleagues in the Senate. And on her worst day, she will be a - she would be an infinitely better president than either of the Republican candidates.

[12:30:10] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's qualified?

SANDERS: She - of course.

(END VIDEO CLIP)