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Peter King Talks Presidential Race; Is Wisconsin a Must-Win for Cruz; Debbie Wasserman Schultz Talks Democratic Race. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired April 5, 2016 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: A lot of revenue for the media markets in New York, whether down or upstate. I'm sure it will help the economy with the campaign commercials you will be hearing the next two weeks.

Listen to the Secretary of State John Kerry talking about the reaction he is getting from overseas to the U.S. election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm confident in the American people will choose wisely. I feel as if this current craziness, which is embarrassing our country abroad -- I cannot tell you, every meeting I have everywhere, people say, what is happening in the United States?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: President Obama said something similar a few minutes ago, if you were watching CNN.

You meet with a lot of foreign leaders. Are they telling you the same thing, they think it is crazy what is going on in the United States? I think they are referring to the Republican contest.

REP. PETER KING, (R), NEW YORK: Obviously, there's talk. In all fairness, President Obama was running in 2008, he was, to me, very much hurting the image of the U.S. As far as accusing President Bush of carrying out torture, killing innocent people. This whole U.S. -- U.S., in effect, impeding our policies brought on these attacks. Senator was bringing down the reputation of the United States in 2008. May not have caused foreign leaders to be concerned because anti- American or begrudging attitude toward the U.S. And President Obama adds to that and I thought it was damaging to the country.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Excuse me for interrupting. I remember covering the 2008 campaign when he went to Europe, he was very warmly received. They liked what he was saying, right?

KING: Right, they liked him because he was downing the United States. He was degrading his own country. That made foreign leaders feel good. It is not a question of winning the approval of foreign leaders. Having said that, I do agree that candidates have to watch what they

say and can't with just be saying, turning our backs on different countries and I guess they are talking about Donald Trump in particular. You have to watch what you say. This does have a consequence. So for instance, he was talking about nuclear weapons with South Korea and Japan. That can have consequences. Remarks made about certain countries, about NATO, for instance, that can have an adverse impact on the U.S. as far as causing uncertainty. I would say the last several years, President Obama's policies have caused controversy, the way he was going to take action with a red line in Syria and he didn't. That caused damage to American credibility.

BLITZER: The president is about to get a recommendation, we're told from the joint chiefs that more troops should be deployed, Special Operations forces, from ISIS, whether in Iraq or Syria. Are you with him if he signs off on that recommendation?

KING: I would support the Joint Chief's recommendation, but if the president is going to imply it, he has to do it. He can't say he's going to and then give a time line to get out. The way he did with the surge in Afghanistan. Back in the end of 2009, when he put a time limit on it, that showed the enemy we were not that serious and sort of going to do it one hand behind our back and causes our allies not to take us as seriously. They feel the president can't wait to get in and out again. If he is going to do it he has to make a full commitment and not apologize for it or talk about us getting out. I want our troops out as quickly as possible but you don't tell the enemy when you are going to get out. Don't give the enemy the indication you are getting out. We want our allies to give us their support. They need to know we will be in to do what has to done and we're not going to cut and run.

BLITZER: Peter King, Congressman from Long Island.

Congressman, thank you for joining us.

KING: Thank you, Wolf. See you in New York.

BLITZER: I will be there. A week from Thursday. Got the Democratic presidential debate in Brooklyn. I don't know if you get to Brooklyn but it's a lovely borough of New York.

KING: I went to high school and college in Brooklyn.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Peter King, thank you very much.

President Obama has addressed the scandal surrounding the so-called Panama Papers. He made the comments during a statement about the importance of basic tax enforcement. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have had another reminder in this big dump of data coming out of Panama that tax avoidance is a big global problem. It's not unique to other countries because, frankly, there are folks here in America who are taking advantage of the same stuff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:35:00] BLITZER: The scandal has not claimed the first political casualties. The prime minister of Iceland has resigned. Coming one day after he walked out of an interview when questions were asked about the scandal. He is one of the 100 politicians named in the papers leaked, which revealed his ties to an off-shore bank.

Still ahead, Wisconsin's primary could be game changer. Why is the Republican front runner stumping there but the Democratic front runner is not? We will discuss that and more with our panel.

And a record voter turnout. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:39:48] BLITZER: Decision day in Wisconsin. Returning to live pictures from a polling place in Brookfield, Wisconsin. The outcome could reshape the party's nomination races. 86 delegates at stake for the Democrats and 42 for Republicans.

Joining us, our political strategist, Angela Rye, a former executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus. Also with us, Alex Castellanos, the founder of newrepublic.com, chairman of Purple Strategies; and Jeff Lord, a CNN political commentator, former Reagan White House political director, and a strong Donald Trump supporter.

As if we don't know that.

(LAUGHTER)

So, is Wisconsin, Jeffrey, a must-win right now for Cruz?

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I would say it is for Ted Cruz.

BLITZER: If he doesn't win Wisconsin, what happens?

LORD: I think that's the beginning of the end here.

BLITZER: Why?

LORD: Because I think Donald Trump has enough momentum that if he does win Wisconsin and I would say not only does Ted Cruz have to win it but the expectation, he was ten points ahead, if he comes in five, four, three points ahead that's still a problem.

BLITZER: Trump keeps saying all morning, and last night, he kept saying get ready for a surprise. He thinks he will do great in Wisconsin.

You have finger is on the tea leaves over there, Alex. What do you think? ALEX CASTELLANOS, FOUNDER NEWREPUBLIC.COM & CHAIRMAN, PURPLE

STRATEGIES: I don't know about the tea leaves but he is bounced back if an awfully bad week last week. Nevertheless, his average in every primary is 35 percent. He is stuck at a third of the vote. So the question is does Kasich grow enough to take enough votes from Cruz that Cruz comes down level? I don't think so. I think Cruz is going to win this evening, but not enough to change the dynamic of the race. He's not going to come out of this with a big bump. Cruz is the escort you hire to go to your high school class reunion when you can't get a date. That's the only reason the Republicans are turning to him right now.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: You heard Congressman King say he is not going to tell us who he will vote for except that he can't vote for Ted Cruz.

CASTELLANOS: There's a lot of that going around. One of the things we may learn after all of these primaries and caucuses is that voters have expressed their will. They don't want any of these candidates to get 1237 votes.

BLITZER: The notion I have heard lately from some of the supporters of Donald Trump that going ahead to New York, Pennsylvania, some of the other states, New Jersey, they are more worried about what Kasich could do in drawing away votes from Trump than Cruz. That's why they want Kasich to drop out.

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. I think that's right. One of the most interesting things is the notion that, you know, if Kasich drops out then all of the votes will go to either one of those candidates. If Kasich drops out there's no representative of what we would call the establishment of the Republican Party. Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, to me, are very similar. We are talking about the same guy. Ted Cruz wanted policeman to control neighborhoods. They are not that dissimilar when it comes to policy positions.

BLITZER: Listen to Donald Trump speaking about why he believes, despite the mistakes he made the past week on women-related issues, he still thinks he will do well with women voters. Listen to this.

I guess we don't have that sound byte but I will read it to you. It says this -- I will try to do his -- no.

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: Don't do it. Don't do it.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: "We just had a big meeting. Many women at the meeting. They like me the best because I'm best with the border, military and security. And I said I'm going to be better with women's health issues. Much better than Hillary or anyone else. I think we are going to do fantastically well with women."

The polls don't show that, do they?

LORD: At the moment, they do not. But the thing I would caution is, we saw this with the evangelicals. Everyone said Ted Cruz would sweep the evangelicals. Donald got a good share. And the reason is they didn't vote as evangelicals, but as Americans concerned about their education, housing, the economy, that sort of thing. I have to believe there are a lot of women that have the same approach. They are concerned about the economy, terrorism, concerned about whether they have a job or not, and he appeals on those.

BLITZER: Do you agree?

CASTELLANOS: Yes, but they are scared of him. Donald Trump has these predator instincts. He eats whatever is in front of him. He can be so reckless. And even when you agree with him, you are scared, oh, my god, even Ann Coulter said it is like bailing your 16-year-old out of prison. You never know what he's going to do.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

CASTELLANOS: But he did something about that. He said he had to do the Heidi Cruz thing over again he wouldn't do that.

BLITZER: Very quickly, on the Democratic side, Angela, how do you see Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton playing out tonight in Wisconsin?

RYE: Well, Bernie Sanders is clearly ahead. I think the reality of this electorate is it is a little younger. 18 percent people of color in 2012. 11 percent in 2008 and in the general. I think that just like every other Democratic primary will be decisive. It will be interesting. One flag I would offer is we expect this time, because of the stricter I.D. requirements there maybe up to 300,000 voters disenfranchised in this election.

(CROSSTALK)

[13:45:34] BLITZER: Just in Wisconsin.

RYE: Just in Wisconsin.

BLITZER: Because they have to show photo I.D. and stuff like that.

RYE: We don't know how that will play out.

BLITZER: Guys, stand by. We are never going to go away from this exciting story.

(LAUGHTER)

It's an exciting story.

Coming up, much more on the Hillary Clinton versus Bernie Sanders. They are locked in a tight race in Wisconsin, as we just heard from Angela. Sanders comes out on top -- he has won the last six of the seven contests -- his party predicts the party may be headed to an open convention as well. Democratic National Committee chair, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, is in Miami. She is joining us live after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:50:12] BLITZER: Live pictures coming in. They're voting in Wisconsin. You see them as they do.

The Democratic race, by the way, between Hillary Clinton and Senator Bernie Sanders, by all accounts in the polls, very, very close right now. The candidates have agreed though on one thing: they've agreed on another debate.

Let's talk about that and a whole lot more. Debbie Wasserman Schultz is joining us. She's the chair of the Democratic National Committee; she's a Congresswoman from Florida as well. She's joining us from Miami.

Congresswoman, thanks very much for joining us.

That debate, by the way, is going to be week from Thursday, April 14, in Brooklyn. It will air here on CNN. It will also air on New York 1. I'll be moderating; it's going to be a very exciting, important debate.

Let's talk about the possibility -- we've spoken about the possibility of a Republican contested convention, an open convention, but what about the possibility that there could be an open convention among the Democrats in Philadelphia in July? Listen to Bernie Sanders' campaign manager, what he said earlier today on CNN's "NEW DAY".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF WEAVER, BERNIE SANDERS' CAMPAIGN MANAGER: If you look at the math, if you want to talk about math, the truth is that it is very, very, very unlikely that either candidate, either Secretary Clinton or Senator Sanders, will go into the convention with a majority needed of pledged delegates in order to win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I want to get your reaction to that. What's the scenario that neither candidate will get 2,383 delegates needed to clinch the nomination?

SCHULTZ: Well, I don't have a direct reaction to that, because each campaign is saying whatever they feel like they need to say to motivate their supporters and that fits with whatever their strategy is.

But our expectation at the Democratic National Committee is that our nominee will go to the convention, before the end of the primary nominating contests, with the majority of the pledge delegates that are available during the normal primary and caucus contests.

BLITZER: Will that pledged delegate count reach that magic number of 2,383?

SCHULTZ: That's our expectation, Wolf, is that before the end of the primaries and caucuses, all the way through to the beginning to mid- June, by that time, I expect that one of our two candidates will have a majority of the available pledged delegates and that there will not be a contested convention.

BLITZER: And so you won't really need the super delegates -- what, there's about 600 or 700 super delegates. You won't need them to weigh in, is that what I'm hearing?

SCHULTZ: There's 719 unpledged delegates and they have up until the actual convention to make a decision on who they are going to vote for. And they have never made a difference in deciding who our nominee is and I don't expect them to now.

BLITZER: I know that Republicans --

SCHULTZ: I think that the nominee will ultimately be selected by pledged delegates that were selected by voters.

BLITZER: I know the Republicans, a week before the convention, their convention in Cleveland, they meet, their rules committee, they come up with whatever rules they want. Is it the same thing on the Democratic side?

SCHULTZ: No, our rule -- our delegate selection process and the rules established for our convention really are pretty much in place. Our rules committee for the convention does meet, but they only meet if there is an issue that arises during the process, so -- and the credentials committee as well. The rules committee meets, but we -- we have basically everything already set and we run things the way they've been run for many, many years.

Now we've had -- just to make sure that everyone understands, on the so-called super delegates, the unpledged delegates, we actually in 2008 had -- and before that -- had over 1,000 unpledged delegates. And after the '08 election you'll remember that Jim Clyburn, my colleague in Congress, led the change commission, which ultimately, under my tenure, pared down the number of unpledged delegates to only 15 percent of the total. So now it's even less likely that it was before they could actually make a difference in the outcome.

BLITZER: You like having those super delegates as part of the Democratic presidential nominating process?

SCHULTZ: You know, it's not a matter of like or dislike; they are part of a process. But our nominee has always been selected by the pledged delegates who were selected by voters in primaries and caucuses and that's my expectation going into this convention.

BLITZER: Quickly, because we don't have a whole lot --

SCHULTZ: Now, on the other hand, the Republican --

(CROSSTALK) BLITZER: Go ahead.

SCHULTZ: Well, Wolf, just on the other hand, what the expectation the week before we meet in Philadelphia is that, in Cleveland, the Republicans are going to be in utter chaos. And, you know, every morning on you network I hear another -- heard Tommy Thompson this morning, you know, talking about how ultimately the convention on the Republican size would select John Kasich. You know, they're selecting whether Paul Ryan, you know, the Speaker of the House, could be brought in as a last-minute savior.

I mean, I think it's going to be possible that the Republican Party isn't the Republican Party that we know by the time they get to the end of this presidential election because they are in such civil war with one another. And they've got -- with good reason. With, you know, the bed they've made, that -- they are lying in the bed they've made. They've got Donald Trump, who is questioning whether people should invest in the stock market, has no concept of what the impact of nuclear proliferation would be, you know, has three different positions on a woman's right to make her own reproductive choices on abortion in a single day, in a matter of hours. To say nothing of Ted Cruz and John Kasich, who all are really in the same place on the most extreme end of the Republican Party, which is the furthest thing from where Americans are. And ultimately our party's nominee, when they are elected at our convention in July, will be the 45th President of the United States.

[13:56:03] BLITZER: Debbie Wasserman Schultz is the chair of the DNC. She's a Congresswoman from Florida.

Thanks very much, Congresswoman, for joining us.

SCHULTZ: Thank you, Wolf. Thanks so much.

BLITZER: That's it for me. Thank you very much for watching.

The news continues right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)