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CNN NEWSROOM

Trump Tries to Rebound Ahead of Wisconsin Primary; Clinton, Sanders Clash Over Debate Date; Clinton Says Sanders Is Democrat-Come- Lately. Aired 9:00-9:30a ET

Aired April 4, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:00:03] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, guys. Yes, another baby on the way here. Very, very soon. What a beautiful --

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Should you be at work?

HARLOW: Yes. Yes. I should be at work.

CUOMO: Christopher. Crazy for a baby. Everybody said.

HARLOW: You think for a girl, Chris, should we call her Christopher?

PEREIRA: It's a girl, honey.

CUOMO: I know.

HARLOW: All right.

CUOMO: There is one on "Trapper John MD." The nurse. Who played the nurse on "Trapper John MD." Real name is Christopher.

HARLOW: Michaela is a nice way to go. Just what I think.

CUOMO: That's weird.

HARLOW: All right, guys. Have a good day. See you soon.

NEWSROOM begins right now.

Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow in today for Carol Costello. So glad you're with us. We begin with politics and Donald Trump trying to rebound as Ted Cruz shifts into high gear. Today the candidates are blanketing Wisconsin ahead of tomorrow's critical primary. The stakes couldn't be higher. 42 delegates up for grabs in the Badger State. The battle there is fierce. According to recent polls Trump is trailing Cruz by about 10 points.

Trump says, though, he is confident despite what many are pointing to as potentially his worst week last week. He is now calling on rival John Kasich to drop out of the race immediately and in what could be a move to appeal to women, his wife, Melania, who we have rarely seen on the trail, she will hit the campaign trail with her husband today in Milwaukee.

How will all of this play out with Wisconsin voters? Let's go straight to CNN national correspondent Jason Carroll. He's live in Lacrosse, Wisconsin. Trump is holding an event there later this morning.

Let's begin on this focus on Kasich. Interesting considering he really needs to take out Cruz in Wisconsin. What is the thinking here?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the thinking is that Kasich is the one taking votes away from him. At least that's what according to what Trump is saying. He is saying a lot of things when he is addressing audiences over the weekend, namely that he says look, I'm a man who's used to building buildings, not being asked questions about things like NATO and abortion. And he says that when he tackles those subjects he uses what he calls good commonsense.

He says he's had bad weeks before and he's bounced back. And Poppy, this time he says he is going to do the same thing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL (voice-over): GOP candidates making their final sprint to Wisconsin's primary tomorrow, barnstorming the battleground state. Trump admitting to having a rough week leading up to primary day after a slew of missteps in his campaign.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I took that answer and I didn't like it because I think a lot of people didn't understand it.

CARROLL: At a town hall Sunday the frontrunner still struggling to articulate his shifting stance on abortion after saying that if abortion were outlawed, women who get the procedure should be punished.

TRUMP: Women go through a lot. They go through a tremendous punishment of themselves. And I didn't like because I wasn't sure if people would understand it so I clarified it. But it was just a clarification and I think it was well accepted.

CARROLL: In a move to stem disapproval from women voters, Trump also saying he regrets re-tweeting a mean spirited photo of Ted Cruz's wife. But Cruz, who leads Trump in Wisconsin, says he is over it.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's gotten to the point where I could not care less about Donald Trump.

CARROLL: Fuelling the firestorm Trump still standing by his campaign manager facing battery charges for an alleged assault on a reporter.

The billionaire fighting to make last-minute gains on a state with an aggressive anti-Trump movement. Trump taking aim at rivals Cruz --

TRUMP: He's a cheater. He's a cheater. He's a dirty rotten cheat. Remember that. CARROLL: And John Kasich.

TRUMP: Everyone says he is such a nice guy. He's not a nice guy. He is a nasty guy, you want to know the truth.

CARROLL: Trump doubling down on calls for the Ohio governor to leave the race arguing that Kasich is taking his votes and has no chance of winning the nomination.

TRUMP: The problem is he is in the way of me. Not Cruz. He hurts me more than he hurts Cruz.

CARROLL: Another lingering issue, controversy over Trump's suggestion Japan and South Korea develop nuclear arms to protect themselves.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You don't go running around talking about using nuclear weapons. Period. End of story.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: And, Poppy, Trump telling supporters over the weekend that his daughter, Ivanka, has asked him to try and be more presidential. Trump telling the crowd, I will be more presidential once these others -- once these other two drop out of the race. He says at that point he will be so boring no one will want to pay attention to him -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Why do I doubt that boring and Trump could ever go in the same sentence, Jason? Before I let you go Melania is going to be where you are in Wisconsin today. She's hitting the trail. I'm wondering if you have any insight into sort of how much of a strategy play, that is from the camp in terms of sort of reinvigorating female support of Donald Trump which has been lagging?

[09:05:05] CARROLL: Well, yes, a couple of things. You know, Trump has said repeatedly that no one respects women more than he does. He says first he was going to do great with women voters and then later on in the weekend he admitted that some of his comments that he made might actually hurt him. So perhaps it's part of the strategy to have this female presence out there with him on -- you know, on the campaign.

It's going to be interesting to see, you know, if it makes a difference. If you look at some of the polling, I mean, one poll shows that among Republican voters, female voters, his disapproval rating is up at something like 39 percent.

HARLOW: Right.

CARROLL: We were talking to women in general, it's almost double that in the low 70s. 70 percent plus disapproval rating among women in general. So it's clear after what happened this past weekend that he's going to need some help in that department -- Poppy.

HARLOW: We'll see if she can bring it. Thank you, Jason. Good to have you. Have fun in Wisconsin. Again, the critical primary is there tomorrow. And here's why it is

so critical. Two main points. Victory gives the winner a major boost of momentum. This is really the first contest, the only major contest in a four-week span. Also a lot of experts are pointing to the Badger State and saying this is a state that could reshape the entire Republican race as we know it.

As for Cruz this is all about keeping Trump from getting to the 1237 delegates he needs to clinch the GOP nomination ahead of the convention. This as the "Washington Post" writes, quote, "A defeat for Trump would be an embarrassing setback especially because of the state's blue-collar makeup."

Let's talk about all of it with CNN political commentator and Trump supporter, Jeffrey Lord. We're also joined by Arthur Laffer, he is the founder of Laffer Associates and the former economic adviser to President Reagan. And also with us CNN political commentator Matt Lewis, a conservative writer and a senior contributor to the "Daily Caller."

Thank you, gentlemen, all for being with me. Jeffrey, I want to begin with you. When you look at Wisconsin, and I think especially when you look at northwestern Wisconsin when you've got the blue-collar workers there, when you've got the fact that the state has lost 35,000 manufacturing jobs since 2006, that is what Trump has been hammering on, you think this would be a home run for Trump. Can he take it tomorrow, though?

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Sure. Well, we'll see, Poppy. I mean I think he's probably going to do a little better than everybody says. But let me just call our attention back to Iowa where there was a lot of hype that he was going to win. A lot of people, myself included, he might win. He came in second and there were all these headlines about whoa, the end of Trump is here and all this kind of thing.

Immediately after Wisconsin we're going to be headed into a whole slew of primaries where Donald Trump is ahead in New York and Pennsylvania and others. So we will see what happens in Wisconsin but by no stretch of the imagination is it going to be determinative.

HARLOW: All right, so you're saying --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: Like Barry Bennett is saying that he can get -- actually Barry Bennett saying the 1450 delegates without taking a single delegate in Wisconsin. We'll see what happens.

Art, to you, big headlines over the weekend about what Donald Trump told the "Washington Post" in terms of the economy. He said the U.S. economy is headed towards a very massive recession. He said the U.S. is sitting on a financial bubble. He said that he would be able to eliminate the $19 trillion national debt in eight years in office. To do that he would have to cut the annual budget of $4 trillion in half. How realistic is this? ARTHUR LAFFER, FORMER ECONOMIC ADVISER, RONALD REAGAN: Well, that's

not true, Poppy. He would not have to do that. He could reduce that --

HARLOW: Then how did he get to that number?

LAFFER: By asset sales. I mean, you have all these properties, you have the post office, you have Camp Pendleton that's worth $65 billion. There are all sorts of asset sales.

HARLOW: Who is he going to sell it to? Who is he going to sell it to?

LAFFER: Southern California Beachfront Properties still going very nicely. You've got the oil reserves. You've got -- you've got gold in Fort Knox. You've got all of these assets. It could probably bring down the national debt.

HARLOW: I'm asking, who are you going to sell it to, to eliminate $19 trillion in national debt?

LAFFER: Well, you couldn't eliminate the whole $19 trillion with asset sales. But if you brought the budget back in, you got economic growth, you wouldn't reduce it to zero but you could make a huge hit. I mean, the tax amnesty program by itself, Poppy, if with a good tax plan, could probably bring in $800 billion. I mean, just pass tax --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: He wants to cut taxes.

LAFFER: You know, he wants to cut tax rates, Poppy. He does not want to cut taxes. He wants to cut tax rates to bring economic growth back in. He wants to bring jobs back into the United States by having a corporate tax of 15 percent versus the highest tax in the OECD. And he is completely right on that. And by the way, so is Ted Cruz completely right on that. Everyone else is missing this.

HARLOW: Matt Lewis, jump in here because Trump has also said he wants to impose a 35 percent tariff on any goods imported to the U.S. from China and from Mexico. CEOs, a number of them across the board including Meg Whitman, the CEO of HP, has come out and said that would drive this country into recession. Do his economic numbers add up?

MATT LEWIS, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, THE DAILY CALLER: Well, look, as a free trader I'm against the tariffs and I think, you know, the problem with Donald Trump is whether it's isolationism or trade policies he is really harkening back to a pre-World War II, pre-Great Depression era.

[09:10:08] So we've learned lessons along the way. One of the things we learned is that protectionism doesn't work. But, you know, we're doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past apparently. So I think when it comes to trade, if you want to pay, you know, $5,000 for an iPhone, you know, if the American consumer wants to pay a lot more and have a lot less purchasing power that's the way to do it. I would say the one thing I agree with Donald Trump on, however, is

interest rates. I think if you keep them artificially low for so long you could have bubbles. And I think he's right about that.

HARLOW: Jeffrey Lord, to you, when it comes to unemployment, another headline from this "Washington Post" article, 96-minute interview with Trump, is that he said unemployment is not at 5 percent. It's in the 20s. But if you just go to the Labor Department statistics and even if you count in all the people on the margins who are out of work but not looking for work so they are not included in the formal unemployment rate of 5 percent, last month it was less than 10 percent.

What -- I mean, I know you support him but telling the American people unemployment is something that it is not, how can you do that?

LORD: Well, Poppy, I don't think the American people need to be told. I think the American people are experiencing this. I think frankly this is one of the reasons why Donald Trump has such rocket fuel in his political tank here. As I may have mentioned yesterday, I know somebody personally who's been looking for a job for three years and only found one in the last couple of weeks. I mean, people are really suffering out there and they're really maxed out.

HARLOW: There's no question they're suffering, but the numbers are what the numbers are.

Art, can you jump in here as Reagan's former economic adviser?

LAFFER: Sure, I would love to jump in. Yes. If you look at employment we're worried about employment, not about unemployment, not about participation rates. If you go back to employment during Clinton's era, at the end of Clinton, employment as a share of population was about 64 percent, 64.5 percent. We are losing about 13 million jobs compared to where it was with Clinton. Now that is both W and Obama contributing to all of that.

But we have a terrible employment recovery. We are losing so much potential output in employment. And while Donald Trump's numbers may not be exactly right at 5 percent or 10 percent he is completely correct in the spirit of this as are all of the Republican candidates. This is a terrible, terrible recovery. The worst in U.S. history. So anyone who claims that this is a good economy just doesn't know the facts.

HARLOW: OK. So let's lay out some of the facts.

LAFFER: Sure.

HARLOW: And I do not disregard the pain for many, many Americans.

LAFFER: True.

HARLOW: Wage growth has been stagnant for far, far too long.

LAFFER: Long time. HARLOW: Many people can't get by. At the same time you do have

unemployment officially at 5 percent. You do have -- you do have gas at $2. You do have an 11 percent increase in home values over the last year. Final word to you, Matt Lewis.

LEWIS: Well, the last thing I would say, look, it's easy to blame trade policy and globalization. It's easy to blame immigration and demagogue immigrants. But the other thing that hardly ever gets talked about is automation. And the truth is that American businesses are becoming more efficient, they're able to produce more goods by paying fewer people to do it. This is robots, whatever it is, people who can -- you know, refill a Coke at McDonald's without paying somebody to do that. This is a big problem that doesn't get talked about because it's hard to demagogue.

HARLOW: I still don't like ordering my lunch off an iPad, I'll tell you that. I'd always rather order from a person. I mean it.

Jeffrey Lord, Matt Lewis, Art Laffer, thank you, gentlemen all very much.

LAFFER: Me, too.

HARLOW: And of course stay with us here on CNN all day tomorrow. We have complete coverage of the Wisconsin presidential primaries starting tomorrow morning.

Still to come here in the NEWSROOM, Democrats not just clashing on the issues, they are fighting about how they're going to clash on the issue. Seriously the debate over the debate next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Bernie Sanders makes his final push in Wisconsin today ahead of tomorrow's primary there. This as his debate dispute with frontrunner, Hillary Clinton, explodes. Both Democrats say they are ready to face off in New York and if you ask Ms. Clinton, the ball is in Sanders court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm confident there will be, but I'm not the one negotiating it. That is going on between our campaigns. I do know my campaign has been really trying to get a time that Senator Sanders campaign would agree with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: The Sanders camp says the dates proposed by Clinton's camp aren't exactly fair. A lot of back and forth here as you can see our Chris Frates is live for us this morning in Wisconsin where Sanders is campaigning today.

Good morning, Chris. What is the latest on the debate about the debates? CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy. I'll tell you this debate over the debates really dominated the campaign trail this weekend. It all started on Saturday when the Clinton campaign said that they proposed three different dates in April to debate Bernie Sanders in New York and Sanders rejected those offers.

The Sanders campaign came back and said hang on wait a minute here, those dates don't work. One of those proposed dates was today. Of course, today is the NCAA men's basketball finals. So the Sanders people saying people are going to want to watch basketball and not a presidential debate.

One of the other dates that was floated was April 14th and the Sanders folks saying they are planning a huge rally in Washington Square Park in New York City. That day to expected attendance of 20,000 people.

So thanks but we are little busy that day and they countered with a slate of their own dates. In fact, here is how Bernie Sanders talked about it just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have been talking I think to NBC and to CNN, and we are working on a number of dates. First, I'm very glad that the secretary has accepted the challenge to debate in New York. I think we can work out a date that works for her schedule and that works for my schedule.

Doing it during that NCAA finals or whatever makes no sense and doing it in the morning when people are going to -- not going to be watching it in large numbers makes no sense. But I'm confident we will work out a time that is good for both of our schedules and when large numbers of people will be watching.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:20:03]FRATES: So there you hear Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton pretty much on the same page saying that they are confident that there will be a New York debate. In fact, John Weaver, the campaign manager for Bernie Sanders saying that he thinks this will all get settled very soon.

And you have to look at why this is important, in New York, there is about 250 delegates up for grabs on April 19th, that's second only to California in the delegate cache. While Bernie Sanders looks like he will do well here in Wisconsin tomorrow, there is only 86 delegates up for grabs.

Remember, it's all proportional, there is no winner take all so Bernie Sanders needs to win about 75 percent of the remaining delegates to clinch the nomination. Hillary Clinton needs just 35.

So he is looking to do well here in Wisconsin, Poppy, and then wants to upset Hillary Clinton in her adopted home state. So when and where these debates take place is going to be very important -- Poppy. HARLOW: Keeps us all talking about it. Chris Frates, thank you so much.

Let's talk about this debate dilemma and push it aside a little bit because when you look at Hillary Clinton, she is taking another tactic in her fight against her rival, Bernie Sanders.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I am also a Democrat and have been a proud Democrat all my adult life and I think that's kind of important if we are selecting somebody to be the Democratic nominee of the Democratic Party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: How many times can you say a Democrat in 17 seconds, right? She just showed us. With me now to discuss, CNN political commentators, Donna Brazile and Errol Louis.

Errol, when you look at New York and the 12-point gap in the polling, but you also look at their ties. I mean, that unmistakable Brooklyn Bernie accent, the fact that her home is here, former senator, her campaign headquarters in Brooklyn, how does Bernie Sanders close the gap?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He is going to do what he I think has clearly laid out. I mean, the notion of sort of whip up some excitement, have some big rallies really push on some of the issues that his core supporters really respond to.

And really get them motivated, energized and out because he is going up against the Democratic establishment in New York as in many other places this means establish political clubs, elected officials who have a long history of turning out the vote, who have great voter lists who they activate every other year. So Bernie Sanders is going to have to run around that.

HARLOW: In 15 days.

LOUIS: In 15 days, tall order.

HARLOW: Donna, I'm wondering to you because we heard Hillary Clinton there talk about basically saying my opponent isn't a true Democrat. That on top of saying that his camp is lying over the weekend. He asked for an apology.

You wonder how far she can go. I will ask you the same question about Sanders. Without hurting the party as a whole and playing into exact attacks that in a general the Republicans will take against the Democratic nominee. Where is that line?

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first of all, we have a very contested convention, a contested conversation right now in the Democratic Party. We don't have a contested convention in large part because 44 percent of the delegates have not been allocated. New York is a big hall of delegates, over 240 delegates. When you look down the road to the Yankee primary on April 19th, another big hall of delegates on the way to California on June 7 and of course, end is D.C.

They are going to continue to have this robust conversation, the differences, the small difference that the candidates may have on big policy issues.

But I think overall the jockeying for the date will end soon. They will have a debate at some anointed hour in New York State to debate all of these issues.

I still believe at the end of the day, the Democratic Party is far stronger and better as a result of having this contested primary.

HARLOW: So you don't think that her making these points and saying he is not a Democrat, his camp is lying, et cetera, hurts the party at all in a general and tees up attacks for the Republicans?

BRAZILE: There is no question that at the end of the day when primary season is over with, we are going to have to bring the two sides together.

I'm a Democratic Party official so I want to work with both the Sanders camp and the Clinton camp to ensure that we have a strong united party to defeat whatever Republican come out of that chaotic convention in Cleveland.

At the end of the day, they will say things that will alienate some supporters on one side and maybe ignite passions on the other. We are going to have a united party at the end of the day.

HARLOW: Not even just the word of this election. Errol, to you same question. I mean, Sanders talks all the time about her ties to Wall Street. He went after her hard on fossil fuels, et cetera. I wonder if you think, you know, he is teeing this up in a way that it really hurts her if she is the nominee.

LOUIS: I'm sure the Republican strategists are going to have that and much more. I don't think they need any help from the socialist, Bernie Sanders to figure out how they want to attack Hillary Clinton. They have 20 plus years of practice at that.

[09:25:01]But I think, you know, Donna's point is right. We have within the Democratic Party you can call it big ten, but you have movement Democrats. They get into politics because of Black Lives Matter or Occupy Wall Street or climate change.

They have a certain kind of way of doing politics and the regular Democrats, the people who year after year register voters and tell people to come out to the polls even if they are not super excited about whoever is on the ticket.

But they understand that what the Democratic Party means is not letting it fall apart every other year and sort of fighting so that you have the basis on which to move a big initiative when it comes down the road whether that's, you know, because of elections themselves or trying to elect an important candidate.

So these groups don't normally get along all that well. As a New Yorker, I'm expecting there is going to be a little bit of a fight that I see going on here all the time.

BRAZILE: I love New York because not only is it difficult to get on the ballot, but to campaign in New York during my years this is the most exciting place to have a candidate and the campaign. I want to say one thing.

Errol mentioned movements, 48 years ago today, Dr. King was assassinated. When you think about the Democratic Party today, Dr. King fought to open doors for people of color to get involved in the political process.

And so I would hope that both campaigns understand how important it is to raise these issues, to have a healthy debate at the end of the day, and continue to mobilize people to get involved in the political process.

HARLOW: Donna Brazile, thank you so much. Errol Louis, thank you as well. Good to have you both.

Coming up next, to Wisconsin and if Wisconsin doesn't go for Trump tomorrow, are we looking at a whole new Republican race starting Wednesday? We'll discuss. Stay with us.

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