Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

Jeb Bush Meeting with GOP Candidates, Except Trump; How Sanders Pull Off Upset in Michigan; Sanders, Trump Appeal to Same Types of Voters. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired March 9, 2016 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:30:00] AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's why they have to get it down to the two-man race in order to have any chance of stopping him.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The one thing that plays in Cruz's favor, he did win Maine.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And he did well this weekend.

MCENANY: And he did well this weekend.

BALDWIN: Sure.

MCENANY: He basically tied John Kasich in Michigan. He is somewhat broadening. I struggle to see where he broadens to win New York, California, Connecticut.

CARPENTER: Here's the thing that boggles me as a former Cruz staffer. Everyone said he had to win the southern evangelical states. He is not winning those and is competitive.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: The whole stop Trump movement, has it had enough time so far to marinade have those attacks really sunk in. When the donors got together on that big call they were looking ahead to Florida, Ohio, the March 15th states. So I think that, you know, everybody today is saying well they did nothing -- those attacks did nothing to Trump.

(CROSSTALK)

RESTON: Yeah. We'll see next week. I think sometimes it takes a little bit of time to these attacks to set in. Perhaps it will mean nothing to Donald Trump because, in the world of Donald Trump, the rules don't apply.

BALDWIN: OK, Maeve, Kayleigh and Amanda, thank you all here in Miami.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: A reminder, a big night for the Democrats tonight. 9:00 eastern, here on CNN, we will be simulcasting the presidential debate hosted by Univision. And then tomorrow night, the CNN Republican presidential debate here in Miami. We've been talking about the gigantic winner-take-all primary contest here in Florida in just days. Meantime, staying on politics, how did Bernie Sanders pull off the

upset he did in Michigan? And how did Hillary Clinton lose in a place where she was so totally favored to win? Talk about polls not being accurate. We'll talk to both campaigns together, next.

Also ahead, breaking news in the war against ISIS. We are getting word that the ISIS terrorist captured by the United States is talking, is giving up secrets, and is talking specifically about chemical weapons.

You are watching CNN special live coverage from the University of Miami here in Florida. Quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:36:40] BALDWIN: We're back here live in Miami, Florida. You know, it may be the race no one saw coming. The race in the state of Michigan, long thought to be all sewn up for Hillary Clinton, ends up going to Bernie Sanders in a late night upset. So close. Sanders took 49.8 percent of that vote, Clinton took 48.3. That's how close. Just more than 18,000 voters were all that separated the two of them. They each took to the microphones after the race was officially called.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I), VERMONT & DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We started this campaign, as many will remember, 10 months ago. We were 60 or 70 points down in the polls. And yet we have -- what we have seen is in poll after poll, after state, what we have done is created the kind of momentum that we need to win.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I want to be the president, not for those who are already successful. They don't need me. I want to be the president for the struggling and the striving, for people who have a dream --

(CHEERING)

CLINTON: -- and who are looking for a way to achieve that dream.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: It is certainly, as we were talking with David Chalian, a psychological boost for Bernie Sanders, and likely a fund-raising boost as well just ahead of tonight's Democratic debate here in Miami.

Joining me, Jennifer Granholm, former Michigan governor and Hillary Clinton supporter; and Chuck Rocha, Bernie Sanders supporter and president of Solidarity Strategies.

Nice to see both of you.

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, (D), FORMER MICHIGAN GOVERNOR: Nice to see you, too, Brooke.

CHUCK ROCHA, PRESIDENT SOLIDARITY STRATEGIES: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Michigan, let's rip the Band-aid off. What did Hillary Clinton do wrong?

GRANHOLM: First of all, anybody who believed those polls were obviously mistaken. We knew it internally that it was closer than we think. This state is a state as Bernie Sanders has said that was a must-win to him. Hats off to him that he did win. They did really well. They spent $500,000 more than the Clinton people did on the air. And they worked it. They won. I think that in the end, amplifying for her the message about job creation in America and a global economy, and her economic plan to create those jobs, build the products that are stamped "made in Michigan," "made in America," and export them while not supporting trade agreements that facility off- shoring, by being tough about that, both sides of that is a message that will continue to go to be amplified, and I'm sure she will continue to amplify it.

BALDWIN: We'll come back to that.

GRANHOLM: Yeah.

BALDWIN: It's important. Looks like Bernie Sanders is tapping into that frustration -

GRANHOLM: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: -- almost in a similar way as Donald Trump is, but to a different group of votes.

To you sir, what did Bernie Sanders do right?

ROCHA: It is the grassroots momentum. I've been running campaigns for over 20 years and I have never seen all these different groups come together. It's young people. They actually showed up to work. The young Black Lives Matter or the dream in the Latino community. You see them coming together and seeing them being at the tip of the spirit. Not just talking about it on line but actually showing up. I think that's the biggest difference that I have seen throughout my political career.

BALDWIN: Talking about the economy, I've been to the rallies and talked to the young folks as well. And it seems Bernie Sanders really is, and Hillary Clinton has been on point talking about everything she has done, that she will do, but it's the emotional frustration, it's that feeling that Bernie Sanders seems to really be tapping into, the note about the auto bailout, which Hillary Clinton brought up, which seems to perhaps have help him in Michigan, it shows how important debates are.

[14:30:16] GRANHOLM: That piece was a frustrating piece to watch happen, because Bernie Sanders did make a vote in December, which went nowhere to support the auto bailout. But that vote did not fly. When it came -- push came to shove in January to release the money, to be able to do the actual bailout, he voted no because he didn't like the fact that it was attached to the TARP, to the Wall Street money. BALDWIN: That's the point she was trying to make.

GRANHOLM: That's the point she was trying to make. But leadership is about doing things when times are hard. It is a one thing to cast an easier vote. It was a hard vote, no doubt about it. But the question is, are you more against Wall Street or in favor of creating jobs in the manufacturing industry, in the auto industry, and that's what the point was of that, and I still think it is a valid point.

ROCHA: I think that's why you saw the UAW president come out and talk about this being an important issue to people in Michigan and important to me, who went to work in a factory. I went to work in a factory when I was 19. My job and my father's job sits in China. We made tires. It's a personal thing to people of color, like me. That was the way we were supposed to strive to get out. To watch these two stalwarts -- I think Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders both have good records to stand on. It's unfortunate that we get stuck on the nitpicking the little pieces, because I think, at the end of the day, there are going to be so much better than any Republican ever dreamed about being. But it's an issue that played big in Michigan. We'll see how it plays in Ohio.

GRANHOLM: The kicker is that she represented Buffalo, New York, a place that had been hard hit by the loss of manufacturing jobs. She has looked in eyes of people who have lost their jobs. It is a deep thing. And the question is, we are not going to be afraid of trade. We're just ticked off about unfair trade. You have got to have trade. We are only 5 percent of the world's population. We've got 95 -- but we want the products made in the U.S., stamped "made in Michigan," and be able to export. That's what we want.

BALDWIN: Wow, I'll feeling it here.

(CROSSTALK)

GRANHOLM: That's the strategy to create jobs in America.

ROCHA: When they walked through my plant and handed out the pink slips, they didn't stop to ask you if they were Democrat or Republican. I think that's some of the angst you see on the Donald Trump side, keeping the jobs here. It cuts across all party lines. It's the passion of the party.

GRANHOLM: But for Bernie, with all due respect, he doesn't have a strategy, an economic development strategy as part of his platform, other than on infrastructure and stopping bad trade. What is the strategy for luring and creating jobs? I think that's where she beats him.

BALDWIN: We'll watch the debate tonight. There is a lot of substance.

Thank you both very much.

GRANHOLM: Yeah. You bet, thank you.

ROCHA: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Governor Granholm, thank you.

Coming up next, they are angry. They are worried. As we were just talking about, the economy, loss of jobs, money, college debt. Folks, a lot of them, are supporting Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. How the two very different candidates are actually appealing to very similar concerns.

Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:47:28] BALDWIN: As all kinds of very smart people are trying to figure out exactly what is behind the rise of Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. As Americans are going out to vote, the picture is becoming clearer. At the center of their successes is this, the economy, the anger, the unhappiness, the frustration that so many people have about government, about unemployment, about their financial situations, college debt. And Trump and Sanders have made that the centerpiece of their campaigns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION (voice-over): She's not going to bring back all of the employment that's gone, all the factories that have closed. I've seen those factories. It's disgusting to look at what we've done with our trade deals. These guys that talking about free trade, they are a bunch of dopes.

SANDERS: I am very glad, Anderson, that Secretary Clinton has discovered religion on this issue.

(LAUGHTER)

But it's a little bit too late. Secretary Clinton supported virtually every one of these disastrous trade agreements written by corporate America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me show you a fascinating comparison here. Among Michigan Democrats who just voted, 30 percent believe trade with other nations creates jobs. 58 percent believe it takes away U.S. jobs. 8 percent believe it has absolutely no affect whatsoever.

This is what is fascinating. The numbers among Republicans in Michigan are virtually identical.

Joining me, "Washington Post" reporter, Ed O'Keefe; and Molly Ball, local writer for "The Atlantic."

Welcome to both of you.

Ed O'Keefe, you first. On one look, Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump could not be you know,

more different but they are truly tapping into this unhappiness, this frustration, and this anger in Americans who are worried about their economic situations.

ED O'KEEFE, REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yeah, it is pretty incredible although I would argue look they are both from the city of New York and have that in common at least. So I think they have a similar sales --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: There you go.

O'KEEFE: We saw this early on in Iowa -- yeah. You saw it early on in Iowa and New Hampshire. Remember there was a lot of talk that voters might go for one or the other. There was a small segment of people who were saying that. Clearly, it seems to have maybe happened again in Michigan. It was a close contest. It shows you they have a similar message that is appealing to both sides of the aisle.

The economy has rebounded. Jobs have been created but the recovery hasn't been as strong as many people would like especially in the industrial Midwest were voters were voting on Tuesday.

BALDWIN: I think that's part of it. When you look at some of the sheer numbers, gas prices, stock market, unemployment rates are extraordinarily low.

But it's middle America. It's the fly over states, Molly. And these are the folks that either look to the successful billionaire businessman who thinks all right this guy must know how to fix the economy, or they are looking at this man who is saying you know what, the system is rigged and I'm going to help you out.

[14:50:24] MOLLY BALL, LOCAL WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: I think the trade issue you mentioned is really interesting and really important because specifically when you look at the states and the Rust Belt states like Michigan, states like Ohio and pennsylvania and Illinois that are coming up on the primary calendar, this is place where the angst over those lost fiscal trees jobs is very deeply felt. And to the extent there is any bipartisan consensus in Washington it's in favor of free trade deals. You have President Obama passing the TPP with Republican votes. The Republicans and Democrats, all the working class voters feel like they are being ganged up on by both parties. Then you have Trump and Sanders both riding this message to a lot of success.

I met a Donald Trump voter in Georgia who said he was supporting Trump because he thought immigrants were taking jobs and we needed to keep out the Muslims. But the other candidate he would vote for was Bernie Sanders because he doesn't think people should struggle to have to work 40 hours a week. There is a lot of cross over in voters who are blue collar and not particularly political. A lot of them may consider themselves Independent.

BALDWIN: I have met voters who said the same thing. You are thinking, wow, if not a Trump, then a Bernie Sanders.

But, Ed, looking ahead to the potential head to head between, let's say, if he gets a nomination, Donald Trump, and if she gets it, Hillary Clinton. In terms of Donald Trump and truly being able to tap in to and galvanize folks, whether it's unhappiness, anger, whatever you want to call it, will Hillary Clinton be able to meet him on that? Has she shown you she has been able to do that with her supporters, thus far?

O'KEEFE: It remains a big challenge, Brooke, for sure. And I think Molly hit it on the head there. The industrial states of Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, as well, are probably going to be in play if Trump continues to make this "I'm mad as hell and not going to take it anymore" argument to the voters. There are people in those states, especially white Democrats, that would find cause to listen to Trump, and Clinton would be hard pressed to match that. Not to mention she suffered with an enthusiasm gap when it comes to Democrats. Bernie Sanders supporters more into his campaign than perhaps Clinton ones. If Trump keeps up the anger and interest, it could be a real problem for her. Republicans existence might put a few more states in play, which is why you see so many Republicans suggest in a battle between Trump and Cruz Trump has more crossover appeal so maybe we should hold our nose and support him.

BALDWIN: Molly, speaking of Trump, can I ask you about red meat? I don't mean the proverbial red meat among politicians. You know where I'm going. Fillets, rib eyes, Donald Trump, wine. What was that last night?

BALL: It was absolutely bonkers. And it was impossible to look away from. And I saw some people being indignant that the networks didn't cut away for Hillary's speech, but look when Hillary is giving the same speech she has Trump is doing a QVC infomercial to a bunch of defunct brands, and talking, and taking questions from reporters, which is another thing you don't see Hillary doing very much, I think it's obvious why Trump is so compelling, just as a spectacle, and why we sort of can't look away from him. I mean, that was just incredible.

BALDWIN: Trump winery, got a bump in Virginia.

Molly Ball, it was odd, but you are right. You couldn't pull away.

And, Ed O'Keefe, thank you so much as well.

Coming up next, we have more on our breaking news. As we are now reporting, we are learning that Jeb Bush plans to meet with Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and Governor Kasich, but not Donald Trump, ahead of the Republican debate here in Miami. Stay with me. More on that. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:58:20] BALDWIN: We're back here in beautiful Miami, Florida. I'm Brooke Baldwin. And you are watching CNN. We have news just in to CNN that is extremely significant. Jeb Bush,

as in the man who wanted to be president but who dropped out after South Carolina, as in the former governor here in the great state of Florida, Jeb Bush, is set to meet with Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, and John Kasich here in Miami ahead of tomorrow night's debate. What he is not doing is meeting with Donald Trump? That's number one. No words yet on what they'll be discussing. The backdrop is, of course, the continuation of Donald Trump's domination, defying the Republican establishment yet again. The front-runner sweeping three out of the four Republican contests on this week's Super Tuesday and snagging another 72 delegates, with 57 going to Ted Cruz, who did win Idaho yesterday. 17 for John Kasich, who didn't win anything, but came in at a close third in Michigan. Marco Rubio coming in last with an epic loss, picking up exactly zero delegates.

Trump may be riding high right now. That is not to say that his rivals are letting up. This morning, Cruz showed off his newest big supporter, former Republican candidate, Carly Fiorina.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA, (R), FORMER CEO, HEWLETT-PACKARD & FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are two sides of the same coin.

(CHEERING)

FIORINA: They are not going to reform the system. They are the system.

(CHEERING)

FIORINA: The establishment says Ted Cruz is too conservative, too much of a fighter, he won't get along. I say you go with Ted.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Welcome Patricia Mazzei, political writer for "The Miami Herald." David Catanese, senior politics writer for "U.S. News & World Report." Matt Lewis is with us as well, senior contributor to "The Daily Caller."