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Stopping Trump; ISIS Leader Killed?; Presidential Contests. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired March 8, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:01]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: First to the polling places to get a feel of what's happening there.

Let's go to CNN's Polo Sandoval in Jackson, Mississippi. Jean Casarez is in Warren, Michigan.

Jean, to you first, the state with the most delegates at stake there for both parties, so important. Set the scene for me.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And so important because of the momentum that it may give to the rest of the Midwest. The Michigan primary, we're in the heart of the Midwest, and it is the first of several Midwestern states.

It is busy here. Look behind me. There are a lot of people. It's just been steady all day, and so many different types of people, i mean, really a diversification here. I just spoke to the first voter that I found that voted for Ted Cruz. And I asked why Ted Cruz and she said because he's religious.

Her son in New York had told her he is the religious candidate and so she voted for him. And I think one of the things that makes this area unique is this is an open primary. You can be registered Democrat, but you can vote for a Republican. You can be registered Republican and vote for a Democrat, which we actually have seen here today.

But when you step up to get your ballot, you have got to ask what ballot you want, either a Republican ballot or a Democratic ballot. They're not on the same sheet of paper. And you go into the polling booth behind me and you make your marks.

Now, here's what's interesting. I spoke to a lifelong Republican this morning, lifelong Republican. And he said he was voting for Bernie Sanders. He said it was the first time that he had ever switched parties, but he was going to do it. We have also talked with people from the auto industry that are for Donald Trump, but they say, we want jobs back and it's critical to us. We can't go through what we have gone through before and we believe he's the man that will do it.

Hillary Clinton voters in the same breath, they say it's Bill Clinton. Bill will be with her and this country's prospered under Bill Clinton and they believe that can happen again. Bernie Sanders supporters say he's the one that is truly for the people. BALDWIN: OK. Jean, thank you.

Polo, what's it like in Jackson, Mississippi?

SANDOVAL: Yes, we're seeing a very similar situation here, Brooke.

We have Democrats that are voting Republicans and Republicans that are voting Democrat. I spoke to one woman traditionally votes Democrat, but in her word, she wanted to use her vote to able to derail this Trump train. She wants -- she essentially came over to the Republican table today, picked up her ballot and ended up casting her ballot for John Kasich.

In her words, he was the most presidential on the debate stage just a couple of days ago during one of the most recent GOP debates. That's what we're seeing here. We're seeing a steady turnout. It comes in waves, really, Brooke. Right now, I just checked in with some of the staff here. They're saying already 425 GOP ballots have been cast and 341 on the Democrats side.

And these numbers obviously something they want to see go even higher. Just last year -- rather, during the last election, 380,176 ballots cast here in Hinds County. The official here that I spoke to saying if they're able to get to that number, they're going to have to see a larger turnout.

But really what's interesting, we have seen people of all ages, a lot of older folks as well, many people who participated in several presidential elections. One woman that I told you about a little while ago, Brooke, she's 90 years old. She has never missed another presidential election. She said this was not going to be the first one.

Lastly, I should mention, yes, of course, folks here seem to agree that Michigan is the grand prize, but they don't feel forgotten. Obviously in the headlines today alone, you can see that most of the presidential candidates were listed on there, and then, of course, Donald Trump taking what is the front page here. You see Donald Trump was just here just yesterday, speaking to voters here, hoping that he can continue with that momentum.

But, of course, Ted Cruz, who happens to have the endorsement of Mississippi's governor also on the ballot as well. So, we're going to have to see exactly what turns out and what happens once these ballots start getting counted after 7:00 later tonight, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Polo, thank you so much, Polo Sandoval and Jean Casarez.

And now today Ted Cruz responded to a fresh attack from Donald Trump, who said Senator Cruz -- quote -- "comes in Bible high and in the end that he lies" -- end quote. Here you go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Typically, when he goes down to attacking people's faith, it's a sign that Donald is really, really worried.

I understand. The last Election Day, Super Saturday, was a very bad day for Donald. He came in proudly expecting to sweep all four contents. Instead, he got clobbered.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So does more Trump so-called clobbering lie ahead?

Let's bring in our panel here, chief political correspondent Dana Bash, Ana Marie Cox, senior political correspondent for MTV News, and Todd Spangler, who is the Washington correspondent for "The Detroit Free Press."

So, Todd, let me actually just begin with you. I want to hammer home why Michigan is so totally important in terms of delegate count, in terms of who on the Republican side folks could be turning out and voting for, and I'm kind of wondering if the possibility is that there we could see a Marco Rubio fourth place in Michigan, which would be the headline certainly come tomorrow?

[15:05:04]

TODD SPANGLER, "THE DETROIT FREE PRESS": Yes, I think there's certainly a good possibility the way the polls seem to be going right now that Senator Rubio could end up in fourth place here and not even hit the 15 percent threshold that would allow him to get any delegates.

BALDWIN: That's a possibility, Dana Bash. Then, of course, it's the whole, how will Donald Trump do? It seemed for a while he had incredible momentum. Seemed a tad vulnerable over the weekend. Two and -- two wins, Ted Cruz taking the other two, margin of victory not as significant. Do you think he's losing ground or do you think people are coalescing behind Ted Cruz?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We will see what happens tonight. I have been on the phone with people even from opposing campaigns and super PACs, people who do not like Donald Trump, but even many of them think that he will probably do well, likely win in Michigan tonight, and same goes with Mississippi.

We will see if that happens. And in fact some I was talking to a source who is pushing an anti-Trump super PAC who is concerned that that kind of process storyline, the idea that if he does well tonight and gathers more delegates and, you know, adds that up, that that will hurt the efforts of all of these anti-Trump forces, which are really trying to get him on substance and on issues and trying to push things that make voters think twice about whether or not he's the one to vote for.

BALDWIN: Ana Marie, what about John Kasich? Let's not count him out. You know, he's someone that not a lot of people talk as much about. But let's talk about John Kasich.

He's been dubbed the adult in the room. He's put in some time certainly in nearby Michigan. How might this play out for him?

ANA MARIE COX, MTV NEWS: Well, if he can pull off even a second place in Michigan, I think he deserves his place at the table. As long as he stays standing, as long as he continues on through Ohio and hopefully wins his home state, you know, he will be an alternative to Trump.

The longer he stays in, the better he looks. Let's face it, he's not a dynamic personality. He's not someone who comes across with a lot of charisma or a lot of big ideas. But, you know, compared to Donald Trump, he does seem like a non-psychopath. You know, he doesn't seem like someone who is going to embarrass the country.

BALDWIN: Ouch.

COX: So I think that he is definitely getting some people who are having to take a second look at their gut instinct to go for Trump. I think Trump does appeal to a wide range of people, not just racists.

And I think there are some people who like that he as an outsider, who like what he has to say. But I think, as you see these debates kind of devolve into name-calling and vulgarity, anyone who can hold their head up high and walk out on that stage without having embarrassed themselves is going to get a few people looking at them, a second chance. So I think that Kasich definitely has a shot here.

BALDWIN: OK. There's a real possibility, Dana Bash, that none of these candidates could reach that magic number of 1,237, and you have a brokered convention. There's this whole movement now, draft Paul Ryan, the U.S. speaker of the House.

Let's just back up. How would that even work, bringing in, you know, outside names like that in Cleveland?

BASH: Well, he's actually going to be as his role -- because his role as speaker of the House allows him to be the chair of the convention, last time around, John Boehner, he was House speaker, so he was the chair of the convention.

So, he, you know, usually the past however many election cycles, Brooke, it's been ceremonial. You gavel in, you gavel out and you're done. But if there's an actual contested convention, he will be the person presiding or that, so it might be, you know, a bit awkward.

But stranger things have happened, if somebody puts his name in the hat. How would it happen? Well, if there is a contested convention, the first round of ballots is the people who come as delegates to, you know, the convention because they're supporting candidate X, Y and Z, they kind they have to stick with that.

But then after the first ballot, they're all free to vote for whomever they want. So that's how things can really get interesting and dramatic after that. And then there's ballots after that. I mean, there have been times...

(CROSSTALK) BALDWIN: It could go rounds and rounds and rounds.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Exactly, like 35 ballots. It could happen. It hasn't happened in a very long time, certainly not in our in our generation and in our lifetime, but -- or at least our conscious lifetime. But it certainly could.

BALDWIN: We will save that conversation for when we get to Cleveland because I have a feeling that's going to come back.

Todd, back to you. With regard to Michigan on the Dems' side, Bernie Sanders, is this do or die for him?

SPANGLER: It's certainly a very important state. There's a lot of delegates in Michigan to be apportioned to the Democrats.

He needs turnout. He needs turnout in big college centers, in Ann Arbor, in East Lansing. Whether that's going to be there or not, it's really hard to say. I think that Secretary Clinton has a lot of institutional support here in Michigan, particularly in African- American areas in Flint and Detroit. She's going to be tough to beat.

[15:10:07]

BALDWIN: Hillary Clinton, Ana Marie, she has said essentially the sooner I became the nominee, the sooner I can start hitting back on the Republican Party.

I mean, is she essentially saying, you know, Bernie Sanders, hint, hint, drop out, so I can truly take on Trump? Because, by the way, Bernie Sanders is, like, I got money, I'm staying in, this is part of a movement. I mean, what do you think of what she said?

COX: Well, I don't think it's too subtle. I'm not sure if it's a hint.

But she has every right to say that. And Bernie Sanders has every right to stay in. I have to say, you know, again, sort of the longer the contest goes on, on the Republican side, the more dignified the Democrats look.

I personally -- I look at what's happening on the Democratic side and it's such a comparatively low drama. I don't think there's going to be a big rift to heal between the Sanders camp -- well maybe the camps specifically. The campaigns themselves might have some rifts to heal.

But I think voters are not going to have a huge problem like switching sides once a nominee is determined. And I think, again, the relative sort of decorum happening on that side is sending a message to voters, even if they are not actually able to campaign on the general election messages, if Hillary Clinton's not the actual nominee, the message coming from the Democratic side is that, you know, we know how to conduct ourselves in public and we know how to decide our nominees. Remember, we thought there was skullduggery happening on the

Democratic side when they didn't have as many debates and whatnot. Compared to what's happening on side with this conversation of a brokered convention, the Democrats actually look like they're having, you know, a democratic process.

BALDWIN: You're not the first to point that out on this show, Ana Marie Cox. Thank you so much. Please come back. And Dana Bash, thank you. I will see you in Miami, of course, ahead of our big Republican debate this week. Todd Spangler, thank you so much as well.

As I mentioned, listen, this is a massive week for us at CNN with regard to politics. We will have complete live coverage today as the results roll in from these different state contests. Then, tomorrow night, 9:00 Eastern, CNN will be simulcasting the Democratic presidential debate. That is hosted by Univision and "The Washington Post." You can watch it right here.

And Thursday, please tune in. It will be a huge night. It's the CNN Republican presidential debate live from Miami, five days ahead of the critical primary in the state of Florida.

Coming up next, though, let's talk Michael Bloomberg, says, no, I am not going to run for president. But you know what, that's not the headline. The headline is why he's not running. We will talk to someone from his inner circle on why he made the decision.

Plus, word of a secret meeting among some of America's business giants and powerful lawmakers. The topic, Donald Trump, of course. Find out why.

And breaking news, a top ISIS leader believed to have been killed by an American airstrike. Hear who the target was and where. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:51]

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

It is not so much that billionaire former Mayor of New York City Michael Bloomberg decided not to run for president. It's the why. For months now, the former mayor has flirted with a third-party candidacy and now admits, you know what, he can't actually pull it off.

But Bloomberg also fears he could have tipped the race to one of the two Republicans, saying -- quote -- "As the race stands now, with Republicans in charge of both houses, there is a good chance that my candidacy could lead to the election of Donald Trump or Senator Ted Cruz. That is not a risk I can take in good conscience."

Hear with me, Marc La Vorgna. He's the former press secretary and communications director for Mayor Bloomberg, and now one of Bloomberg's closest advisers, tasked with researching the possibility of his billion-dollar self-funded campaign.

Marc, welcome.

MARC LA VORGNA, FORMER BLOOMBERG PRESS SECRETARY: Thanks.

BALDWIN: How close did it get?

LA VORGNA: When it appeared Senator Sanders had a very good chance at the nomination, we were getting very close.

In a race of senator Sanders, Donald Trump, Mike Bloomberg, we felt very confident that Mike could win that race and win it clean by clearing 270 electoral votes. He would have been the strongest candidate. We did some really detailed polling, much more extensive than anybody else has ever done.

Once it became clear that Senator Clinton was probably going to be the Democratic nominee, it became clear that due to our political structure, the system basically dictates we have a duopoly, that you're not going to get a third choice, and the reason being that even if you have a really strong candidate, and Mike Bloomberg would have been the strongest independent candidate probably in the history of this country, or maybe dating back to Teddy Roosevelt...

BALDWIN: OK, you're a little biased.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

LA VORGNA: Yes. No would was going to get up over 270 electoral votes. No one gets over 270, you end up with the election kicked over to the House of Representatives, deprives the people of the right to pick a president.

The House chooses the president, and in this case, the House is controlled by Republicans, and very often -- might have been Donald Trump. And that was a risk he just did not want to take.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Other than the fact, though, that it looks like Hillary Clinton will be the nominee, to me, what jumped out at me in reading this from Bloomberg was he just -- by jumping in, he would fear, to your point, that it could be a Trump or a Cruz presidency. Was that ultimately what it was?

LA VORGNA: That was the decider.

BALDWIN: That was it?

LA VORGNA: Yes, that was it.

Look, he didn't have any plan whatsoever coming off his mayoralty to run for president. That wasn't the case. He was going back into private life. He was running his company. He was going back to being one of the world's greatest philanthropists.

But he watched a race that had extremely divisive, demagogic rhetoric on the right and a race on the left that was tipping towards the far end of the -- the left end of the spectrum.

And that created, A, a rationale to run, that he does not believe the country should be governed by the extremes, B, a path to run. We put a lot of, a lot of work into this. And it was actually like a really fascinating look at what the process is. Just even getting on the ballot is really incredible.

BALDWIN: Cannot imagine.

LA VORGNA: The state parties set up extraordinary barriers to entry that really dictate only somebody with a lot of resources can actually even get on the ballot as a third-party candidate.

[15:20:00]

And unless the two parties nominate candidates that are very much on the extreme ends, there's not enough room for an independent to get through. That was almost the case. With Senator Clinton, that is not the case. He did not want to run the risk of a deadlocked election being decided by the House and possibly putting Donald Trump in the White House.

BALDWIN: On Donald Trump, here you look at these two men, Bloomberg and Trump, both very successful businessmen, New York City. Obviously, they know one another. At any point during Bloomberg marinating on a run did he ever pick up the phone and call Mr. Trump?

LA VORGNA: No, they never spoke.

They know each other in passing. I wouldn't -- you know, no acrimony between them ever in their lives. And really we did a little bit of business with him when he was mayor. They worked on a golf course, rehabilitation of a golf course. And the Trump folks did a wonderful job on it, but not much of a relationship there, but no acrimony.

It just -- he saw the campaign he was running and he was, frankly, disgusted by it, and that sort of triggered a look into this. And the more and more we looked at it, the more and more real it became that, wait minute, he can win this. But with Senator Clinton's rise, it just does not leave the possibility open.

BALDWIN: This is so fascinating. Take me behind the scenes of, you know, you talk about looking into, you know, polling and state election rules, et cetera. How many people were involved in this sort of core nucleus that was the would he, should he run?

LA VORGNA: Yes.

There's numerous pockets of what you're looking at. Number one is to get yourself on the ballot, which is an extraordinary, arduous process. You need somewhere in the range of 900,000 signatures formally to get on. But you need way more than that actually, because who controls secretary of state's office, county election offices that -- and view the signatures, it's whoever's in control of that executive branch of government, right. So you're going to get challenged, you're going to get sued the second you file petition signatures.

We estimated he probably needed somewhere in the range of 1.2 million signatures in various states. And the rules are different in each state. It's extremely complicated. So, you need a petitioning process to go through to be able to build out that number of signatures.

You need a legal team to go through that. Now, there are serious constitutional questions, right, about if the election doesn't -- if no one clears 270, what happens? It's never really been tested in very firm way. It's never been stress-tested.

BALDWIN: Who were his advisers? Who were the people on the Bat Phone for Mike Bloomberg when he really needed the advice?

LA VORGNA: Sure. Kevin Sheeky, who's been a longtime consigliere of his.

BALDWIN: Higher-profile people that folks would know?

LA VORGNA: Well, that's his team. He's had the same team of folks for a very long time. And in the end, you know, Mike Bloomberg makes decisions based on data.

BALDWIN: But didn't he talk to the vice president?

LA VORGNA: I don't know if he actually did or not. I saw that report. I wasn't part of that...

(CROSSTALK)

LA VORGNA: ... obviously.

BALDWIN: OK. OK.

LA VORGNA: But this a guy who makes decisions based on data. And he gets good people around him to bring him the best data. And it's in God we trust. Everybody else bring data. That's what we saw. And we saw real rationale based on the numbers.

Pardon me, a real path based on the numbers, a rationale based on the rhetoric of the campaign. But that pathway closed, to the point that he could have finished in a three-way race with Secretary Clinton, Donald Trump, and Mike Bloomberg.

He could have absolutely finished as the top vote-getter in that race. He would have won a number of states. He would not, we do not believe, would have gone to over 270. Secretary Clinton would have finished with the most electoral votes probably in that circumstance, but she wouldn't have gotten 270 either. We would have ended in the House and that would have been a disaster. BALDWIN: The front-row seat to all of this. Marc, thank you so much.

I really appreciate it.

LA VORGNA: Thanks.

BALDWIN: Marc La Vorgna, former press secretary, communications director for Mayor Michael Bloomberg. Thank you.

LA VORGNA: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next here, anti-Trump ads blanketing the airwaves in Florida. And right now, Hillary Clintons's super PAC is gearing up to use his comments about women against him. We will debate whether the attacks can actually make an impact.

Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:18]

BALDWIN: Just about bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And right now, Hillary Clinton allies, they are plotting, they are assembling an arsenal that they hope will bring down the man poised to become the Republican nominee, an attack ad using Donald Trump's own words against him about women. And it wouldn't be the first time we have seen Trump's words come back to haunt him, case in point, this ad from a conservative super PAC entitled "Best Words."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What the hell are we doing? You are not going to raise that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) price.

I have the best words. And you can tell them, go (EXPLETIVE DELETED) themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, Marcy Stech, communications director at Emily's List, which supports pro-choice Democratic women running for office. And Scottie Nell Hughes is with us as well, a Trump supporter, chief political correspondent with USA Radio Networks, and a columnist for WesternJournalism.com.

Ladies, welcome.

And, Marcy, to you first with Emily's List.

Explain -- take me behind closed doors in the strategy. What are you ladies plotting here?

MARCY STECH, EMILY'S LIST: Sure. Sure. Well, it seems to me that the best way of running against Donald Trump is to use Donald Trump's words themselves. And on themselves, they are completely powerful. There's no shortage of misogynistic, sexist, offensive, hateful things that Trump has said against women, towards women, in describing women.

And so, you know, the reality is that what -- he's the Republican front-runner and we have to take him very seriously. So, for us, we want to make sure that we are spending time looking through this and making sure that he owns those words.

And it's not just Trump who owns those words. It's the Republican Party and everyone with an R next to their name on the ballot.

BALDWIN: So, Scottie, as the Trump supporter, as a woman -- and you do know some of what Mr. Trump has said -- how would you defend him?