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CNN NEWSROOM

Feisty Sanders Snaps at Clinton's Interruptions; Sanders, Clinton Demand Michigan Governor to Resign; GOP Prepares to Battle for Florida; Interview with Hugh Hewitt. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired March 7, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:00:01] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I know. He's funny, too. He could have his own comedy show.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS: He is. That's right.

COSTELLO: Coy Wire, thanks so much.

WIRE: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, face-off in Flint.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Excuse me, I'm talking.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you're going to talk, tell the whole story, Senator Sanders.

COSTELLO: Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton launched new attacks at the CNN's Democratic debate.

CLINTON: OK. Go.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN DEBATE MODERATOR: Secretary Clinton --

SANDERS: Wait a minute. Can I finish? You'll have your turn.

COSTELLO: And Super Tuesday take two. Ted Cruz on a roll. And Marco Rubio playing catch up.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I need your help. I need to win here. And I need your votes to do that. I don't just need your vote. I need you to go out and find other people to vote for me.

COSTELLO: Plus remembering Nancy Reagan.

NANCY REAGAN, FORMER FIRST LADY: I can't imagine a marriage being any other way but the way that Ronnie's and mine was.

COSTELLO: A love story that can never die. Let's talk. Live at the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

The race for the White House time is short. Tempers even shorter. Democrats, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders get testy in a CNN debate in Michigan, ahead of Tuesday's primary. Sanders gaining ground, Clinton anxious to kill off his challenge. They stuck to the issues but make no mistake both came ready to rumble.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: If you are talking about the Wall Street bailout where some of your friends destroyed this economy --

CLINTON: You know --

SANDERS: Excuse me. I'm talking.

COOPER: Let him sprung.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: If you're going to talk, tell the whole story, Senator Sanders.

SANDERS: Well, let me tell my story. You tell yours.

CLINTON: I will. OK. Go.

COOPER: Secretary Clinton --

SANDERS: Wait a minute. Can I finish? You'll have your turn. Essentially your position is there should not be any guns in America, period.

CLINTON: That is -- now that is like the NRA position.

SANDERS: Now I am -- can I --

CLINTON: No.

SANDERS: Can I finish please? All right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So there you have the story of how the night went. So let's hear more from Joe Johns. He joins us live from Dearborn, Michigan.

Hi, Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. I guess you can say that Bernie Sanders came off in places as a little bit angry in this debate. He certainly interrupted Hillary Clinton quite a lot, and it's funny about anger in a debate. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. For example, when Donald Trump has done it many times in the past, it seems to have worked for him. So the question is how that persona of Bernie Sanders works with the public. In fact, Sanders talked a little bit about Trump in the debate last night. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Well, let me start by saying that the last time I checked as of last night, Donald Trump had received 3.6 million votes, which is a good number. And there's only one candidate in either party who has more votes than him, and that's me.

SANDERS: I would love to run against Donald Trump. And I'll tell you why. For a start, what almost, not all, but almost every poll has shown is that Sanders versus Trump does a lot better than Clinton versus Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: But I think when you look back on that debate, there are a number of imperfect moments that Bernie Sanders had including one where he was talking about race, economics, and the ghetto. Some have suggested he misspoke. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: When you're white, you don't know what it's like to be living in a ghetto. You don't know what it's like to be poor. You don't know what it's like to be hassled when you walk down the street or you get dragged out of a car.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: So, you know, what that brings up, Carol, quite frankly, is the notion of poverty in white communities and all of us who have traveled this country know that in pockets, you think of Appalachia and many other places where there is poverty in white communities. So some imperfect words there for Bernie Sanders that could come back to haunt him, especially because the African-American vote is so important including in places like Detroit which votes on Tuesday -- Carol.

COSTELLO: I know. And that comment, it made it sound like all African-American people are poor, which is certainly not true either.

Joe Johns reporting live from Dearborn, Michigan. Thank you.

Later in the hour I'll be talking to the Flint mayor, Janet Weaver. Did the Democratic presidential candidates say what she wanted to hear? I'll ask her.

Flint, Michigan, finds itself, though, smacked in the middle of presidential politics with Hillary Clinton taking credit for the location of the debate which would be Flint. Both candidates now pushing hard to oust the Republican governor, Rick Snyder, over Flint's water crisis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN FALLON, CLINTON PRESS SECRETARY: If the governor stepped down tomorrow, would that make a difference in the everyday lives of people who are drinking contaminated water, who can't take showers, who can't brush their teeth?

Senator Sanders put out a very nice press release calling for Governor Snyder to step down. Clinton is not going around defending Governor Snyder. She thinks he's falling down on the job. But she's caring about is what can make a difference for people so at the same time Senator Bernie Sanders was blasting off press releases a couple of months ago, she was actually deploying staff her to Flint to say what can I do?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. That interview with Brian Fallon who's a Clinton supporter took place minutes before the debate, but during the debate -- and I should introduce my panelist. I'll do that right now since you're both on screen.

"Daily Beast" editor-in-chief and CNN's political analyst John Avlon is with me and Emily Tisch Sussman is the campaign director for the Center for American Progress Action Fund. She also supports Hillary Clinton.

So welcome to both of you. OK, so, Emily, going back to the Brian Fallon, right.

EMILY TISCH SUSSMAN, CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS ACTION FUND: Thank you.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Going back to the Brian Fallon interview which took place moments before the debate. He made no mention of Hillary Clinton wanting to oust the Michigan governor -- Michigan Governor Snyder, but during the debate, Hillary Clinton said, yes, he should resign. Governor Snyder should resign. So what happened in between Brian Fallon's interview and the debate itself?

SUSSMAN: What they actually discussed, I'm not privy to, but I do think it raises a really important point here. That what is happening in Flint is the same thing that's happening in Cleveland, in cities across the country, where we have a real failure of government. And the Republicans have been trying to spin it and they did during their own debate of saying this is a failure of all governments as opposed to a failure of bad government. And that's what's happening with Rick Snyder here.

Look, outside from what everyone is going in and talking about, I'm glad they're bringing attention to the issue. But the real fact of what's happening on the ground right now is that nonprofits, government agencies, that generally go in to help a crisis don't actually trust him and they don't trust his administration because they actually caused this problem. So we need all of the pieces. We need him to step down. We need better oversight, we need better infrastructure.

These are all pieces that we desperately need and it does seem like Clinton brought it up very early. Sanders saying he got into the community. That's great. And I think we'll hear from the mayor later on in the show to say, you know, what she's been feeling on the ground.

COSTELLO: Well, you know, one thing Hillary Clinton say about the EPA, John, and you know, the EPA was partially to blame for this crisis in Flint, right? So when asked if anyone from the EPA would be fired, and of course it's a federal kind of thing, and it's Democratic, she sort of waffled on that. And I thought that was a mistake.

AVLON: Yes. I mean, if there's blame around to go around in government's role in creating this crisis, it's got to go around appropriately. And it was a cascading failure of government bureaucracy. While the buck stops at the governor, and 69 percent of Michigan residents think that he has handled this badly. I do think simply trying to elevate the politics of it in casting blame doesn't necessarily solve the problem.

This is a great case to be made for proper funding of government, for issues of environmental and structural racism as well as not dealing just with basic problems when you start cutting costs and dealing with small government. But focusing on solutions rather than scoring political points I think is incumbent upon folks. Democrats can -- gave a lot of heat to Senator Mike Lee for holding up some of the Flint aid, that's appropriate. But simply trying to pass the buck to Rick Snyder to score a win, it seems to doesn't actually solve the underlying problem which is bigger than Rick Snyder.

COSTELLO: It is, Emily. I know you're going to say Hillary Clinton had the better answer than, you know, her first 100 days in office she would take care of all the lead pipes throughout the country. Right? Which seems an impossibility because she said she'd do that in five years.

SUSSMAN: Look, I think you're absolutely right that this is a big -- this is a problem of infrastructure and political solutions aren't just going to call for it. I think holding up the funding, the fact that the Senate is doing it, that Senator Mike Lee will be doing that, I think, is really horrible to the people of Flint. But we need to be talking about this. It is about correct use of government and it's not just about the governor. Yes, the governor and his administration failed here, but it is actually about -- when we talk about, do you want to just get in there and slash, slash, slash?

That's where the Republican Party has been going over the last couple of years. The idea that smaller government is always better. And if you can cut costs, cut costs. That's what they were doing going in without really thinking about what it would do to the residents. And so that's a place where I think, you know, it is -- there are individual actors in which we should be placing blame, and that is the governor, that is his administration, that is Senator Mike Lee for holding it up, but we need to question the entire -- the big piece of it, like where the Republican Party is going on this, and that I think was something that did actually -- has been a contrast this past week between the Republican and Democratic debates.

COSTELLO: You know what's the saddest moment of the debate, John? Was when an audience member, a Flint resident stood up and faced both candidates and said, tell me, how do I trust my government? Our water is poisoned. I can't brush my teeth. I can't bathe my children in it. Tell me, how do I -- how I gain trust in the government again?

[10:10:13] AVLON: Look, that is a poignant moment that I think reflects a general crisis of confidence we have in our institutions and our elected officials over the past decades but it's really brought to light on this. And it does reinforce that the essential role of government is to secure a stable structure within which people can live their lives to the best of their ability, and having lead and sewage in water violates that trust in a fundamental way, and hopefully we'll take it beyond partisan politics towards a serious debate about actually investing in infrastructure again. Something that used to be a bipartisan priority and has lately become politicized to the point of pointlessness. That's one constructive response to this crisis because this should be a crisis in confidence in our government effectively working.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there.

John Avlon, Emily Tisch Sussman, thanks to both of you for joining me this morning.

On the Republican side, pressure is mounting for Marco Rubio. The Florida senator earning just two wins so far in his bid to be the Republican nominee. Now Donald Trump and Ted Cruz want him to drop out, both men planning to fight hard for Florida which heads to the polls next week. Will it be Rubio's last stand?

CNN's Jason Carroll has more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Florida is a must-win state for Marco Rubio. He has no path forward if he cannot win here. His campaign does believe he can win her despite polls showing Trump leading.

It's going to be interesting to see when Marco Rubio had his rally in Tampa a little later on here today whether or not he continues to attack Trump, especially on the controversial issue regarding Trump's stance on torture.

As you know, Trump initially said he would abide by U.S. laws regarding torture, then flip-flopped on his position saying that he would try to expand U.S. laws. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, you have to play the game the way they are playing the game. You are not going to win if we're soft and they're -- they have no rules. Now I want to stay within the laws. I want to do all of that but I think we have to increase the laws because the laws are not working.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: A number of Republican security experts called Trump's stance, quote, "inexcusable." Trump not deterred by that. He's moving forward saying he does not believe that will hurt his position. He'll be campaigning today in both North Carolina and Mississippi.

Again, Trump saying this is a two-way race. As for the second person in that two-way race, Ted Cruz, he will be campaigning here in Florida tomorrow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: All right. That was Jason Carroll in Miami, Florida. Thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, more on the fight for Florida. Will attacks against Donald Trump give Marco Rubio the edge? Or will the Florida senator soon be forced out?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:16:53] COSTELLO: Ted Cruz and Donald Trump have a simple message for Marco Rubio. Time to call it quits. Rubio posting just his second win this weekend in the Puerto Rican primaries. Now his rivals and even some supporters say the path forward is narrowing. But Donald Trump has something to worry about, too. The attacks on Trump appeared to be chipping away at his inevitability. Perhaps the most effective, comparisons to Adolph Hitler.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The media has been saying some pretty negative things about Donald Trump. But what are real Americans saying?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy is a winner.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's authentic.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So when people ask why you support Donald Trump, you just tell them --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's going to take our economy from here to here. I like that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's not some cautious politician. He says what I'm thinking.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A message from Racists for Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. "Saturday Night Live" was not alone. Glenn Beck said this on ABC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLENN BECK, FOUNDER, THEBLAZE: We all look at Adolph Hitler in 1940. We should look at Adolph Hitler in 1929. He was kind of a funny, kind of character that said the things that people were thinking. Where Donald Trump takes it, I have absolutely no idea. But Donald Trump is a dangerous man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. Glenn Beck also compared Donald Trump to Adolph Hitler. Louis C.K. writes on his Web site, quote, "Please stop it with voting for Trump." C.K. went on to writer, "It was funny for a little while, but the guy is Hitler. And by that I mean that we are being Germany in the 30s."

So let's talk about that with Hugh Hewitt, host of the "Hugh Hewitt Show." Good morning, Hugh.

HUGH HEWITT, HOST, "HUGH HEWITT SHOW": Good morning, Carol. And greetings from Miami where the biggest debate in primary history is probably going to happen on Thursday night. I'm looking forward to being a part of it.

COSTELLO: I'm looking -- I'm going to be there in person, so I'll be right on your tail, trying to get some comments from you, Hugh. Let's talk about this Hitler comparison. Are these comparisons hurting Donald Trump?

HEWITT: Well, they are, but they're absurd. And I think it's important for every Republican to reject over-the-top rhetoric.

Look, we have a four-way race for the nomination. And these are not unusual in the United States. In 1940, the Republicans went six ballot, the guy who was third on the first ballot went to Willkie, ended up winning the nomination. The guy was number one on the first ballot, Robert Taft, ended up with 11 votes and finished third.

Open conventions and multi-person races are not unusual. And I don't think it helps anyone to go over the top. Now Donald Trump had a terrible two weeks. He lost two debates. He got into that mess with Jake Tapper in which he didn't denounce the KKK or David Duke. He had an extraordinary sequence of losses on Saturday or very narrow wins, right, where he's supposed to have blowouts. So Ted Cruz has a lot of momentum and Marco Rubio has a lot of momentum and Mitt Romney came into the race with the side winder and hammer that hit on the Trump support. But it's not 1929. It's an open primary. It's a lot of fun actually.

[10:20:03] COSTELLO: Well, here's the thing, though. Here's the thing, though, Hugh.

HEWITT: But I do think --

COSTELLO: Here's the thing. Like social media, you know, and it does matter because people watch social media. They read social media. And social media went crazy when Donald Trump made his supporters raise their right hands and pledge to vote for him. And I think you're seeing it right now. They called this Hitler-esque.

HEWITT: Well, I think that --

(CROSSTALK)

HEWITT: That's not Hitler-esque. I do think it's unfortunate in that Donald Trump needs better theatrics when he does things like that. But hey, look, I thought I saw Bernie Sanders in the crowd at Lady Edith's Redding in the last episode of "Downton" last night. There are funny things that happen all the time in social media world, but I am not going to let -- this is a very serious conversation about the future of the country.

Rubio, Cruz and Trump all have very serious message and they all have very passionate, devoted followers. And I'm Switzerland in this. My radio show is open to them all. I hope I talk to them all this week. But I think Florida and Ohio will determine whether we go to an open convention. And if either of them goes to either Kasich in Ohio or Rubio or Cruz in Florida, we are definitely going to have an open or contested convention.

Not any brokered convention, there aren't brokers left. And Donald Trump will have a big say in who the nominee is even if he isn't going to be the nominee. And so we have to wait and see, and I'm one of those pundits who believes let's let the people decide and play out. Marco has got quite a campaign underway. I've already seen it down in Florida. This is his home turf. He has got an extraordinary base of support all across the state. He's in the legislature for 10 years.

Ted Cruz opened 10 offices in Florida this weekend. Donald Trump has great properties and is kind of a Floridian, and John Kasich is doing very well in Ohio. And one poll shows him ahead in Michigan tomorrow. So this is an all hands on deck political battle that is good for the Republican Party. I mean, it's very, very good for conservatism. I'm happy to be a part of it.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: Interesting, Hugh. Always interesting. Thanks for stopping by. Always a pleasure.

It's a big political week on CNN.

HEWITT: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: You're welcome.

It's a big political week on CNN. Tomorrow we have complete coverage of Super Tuesday, part two. Wednesday the Democrats debate in Miami. Thursday it's the Republicans on stage for another debate in Miami. And you can see it all right here on CNN.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the political world pauses to remember Nancy Reagan. How she redefined the role of first lady.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REAGAN: I want you to stay just like you are. You're our hope and you're our promise for the future, and we're depending on you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:27:11] COSTELLO: Checking some top stories at 27 minutes past. Oil prices continue to rally as the Dow remains flat this morning. The barrel of crude above $36 right now. It's up above 40 percent from lows last month. Fundamentals haven't changed much. The world still has too much oil, but U.S. energy firms did cut back on oil rigs. They're now at their lowest level since December of 2009.

Idaho police are looking for a man they say shot a pastor in the parking lot of his church. 30-year-old Kyle Andrew Odom may be driving a 2004 silver Honda Accord and is considered armed and dangerous. He's the suspect here. The shooting comes a day after Pastor Tim Remington gave the invocation at a Ted Cruz rally. The police say there's no sign the shooting was politically motivated. Remington is now in stable condition in a hospital.

ISIS is claiming responsibility for a suicide attack in Iraq that killed 35 people and injured more than 100. Iraqi police officials say it happened Sunday at a busy security checkpoint in the city of Hillah, that's south of Baghdad. They say the suicide attacker was driving a truck laden with explosives.

And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. Any minute now we are expecting the White House to lower the flag to half staff in honor of Nancy Reagan.

Of course, Reagan's life and legacy being remembered today. Mrs. Reagan was more than just the wife of a president. She was a mother, a breast cancer survivor, an anti-drug advocate and an actress. She died at home in Los Angeles on Sunday of congestive heart failure. She was 94 years old.

And behind all of her accomplishments was a classic American love story, one that began in Hollywood and would last for decades.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REAGAN: Right away, right away, uh-huh. It was a blind date, as you know. It was a blind date, and I knew right away. It took him a little bit longer. I can't imagine marriage being any other way but the way that Ronnie's

and mine was. And I guess that's unusual. Everything just fell into place with Ronnie and me. We completed each other. When you balance it all out, I've had a pretty fabulous life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. You see the -- there it is. The flag at half staff now over the White House, of course, to honor Nancy Reagan.

CNN's Stephanie Elam live at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in California. Hi, Stephanie.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. Yes, when you talk about the love that Nancy and Ronald Reagan shared, it was something that was viewed as special and rare that many Americans, no matter their political affiliation, admired about the two. In fact their son Ron Reagan was on the "Today" show talking about their relationship.