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What GOP Candidates Have to Prove in Debate; Will Primary Wins Temper Trump's Attacks; Cruz Needs Win in Texas; Former Mexican President Lashes Out at Trump over Wall. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired February 25, 2016 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:30:00] SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: John, you're absolutely right. This is where everyone will declare victory. The stakes for these guys on stage tonight could not be higher. This is the last debate before Super Tuesday. This is where they'll try to stop Donald Trump's momentum or at least slow it. If you're Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz, not only are, you trying to kill each other off. They've both been very honest about the fact they're trying to take on Trump one on one, but they need the other guy to get out of the race in order to get after it.

Marco Rubio sort of foreshadowed last night some of the attacks we might see from him, saying essentially this is a guy who is not prepared to be commander-in-chief and this is not a guy who is going to defend Israel.

As for Ted Cruz, he's got Trump to deal with, Rubio to deal with, and he's got his own problems. He has to put to bed this narrative that he has a campaign that is running dirty tricks. I'm told by his advisers he is going to push back forcibly on the narrative tonight -- John?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Sara Murray for us inside the spin room.

Wonder what the spin will be after the debate tonight. Who will leave smiling, who not so much.

We did just get one piece of news from the debate stage itself. Donald Trump will not be doing the last-minute walkthrough. That is one of his aides, an adviser to Donald Trump. An advisor to Donald Trump. I can't tell who that is. But we are told his adviser, to Donald Trump, going around, checking things out for the billionaire businessman. He'll no doubt relate the lay of the land so Donald Trump feels comfortable when he takes that stage tonight at 8:30 p.m. eastern time.

Here to talk to me about what we can expect tonight, chief Washington correspondent, Jake Tapper, anchor of "The Lead," host of "State of the Union," winner of one CNN "Quiz Show."

(LAUGHTER)

Jake Tapper, thanks so much --

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That was Kofi Kofland (ph). You don't know him?

BERMAN: I do not.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Tonight, want to know what each one of these guys has to prove on this stage. Start with Donald Trump.

TAPPER: Donald Trump I think can start thinking about the general election. I think he can start positioning himself for that, which is not to say he needs to start running left or toward the center, but I think in temperament it might be advised for him to start reassuring the Republican base donors, et cetera, that he really can be president. He certainly can be a formidable political candidate. Can he actually be president? I think that's something that he could think -- not that he takes anybody's advice, especially mine, but that's something he could think about.

Rubio and Cruz, they need to not only lay a glove on him, on Trump, they need to throw a punch. That's Marco Rubio for sure. They need to throw that -- he needs to make -- first of all, Amanda Carpenter, former Cruz aide, has been making this argument for days now. You almost see no adaptation by Cruz or Rubio to what the Republican electorate is. You've seen, on the Democratic side, both Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton have modified how they talk about things to try to appeal to Democratic voters where they are. You don't see that from Rubio and Cruz. You see then doing what they have been doing for six months, for nine months, and particularly trying to pick up on the fact that many, many Republican, as we've seen them go to the polls in the fourth states that have voted, are angry, do not like the establishment, do not like the Republican establishment, want an outsider, want somebody who's going to change things and shake things up. A lot of these voters, as much as people want to dismiss them, a lot of these Cruz voters -- I'm sorry, Trump voters, a lot of these Trump voters have a lot of economic anxiety and want somebody to talk about jobs in this country. And you don't hear that from the other guys.

BERMAN: One of the great unknowns of Marco Rubio of what it will look like when he takes on Donald Trump. We know what it looks like when he went head to head with Christie. That did not end well. We don't know what Trump will throw at him and we don't know how Marco Rubio will respond.

TAPPER: Yes, we have yet to hear anybody wage an effective campaign against Trump. And it's not my job to say here are the three ways you can do it. But it seems to me you need to go after the things that are the strength. You need to be able to go at the idea that he is a fighter and will fight for American jobs and will fight with anyone, whether it's ISIS or Mexico or China that doesn't have the best interest of the United States at hand and at heart. And if you can't defeat him on those terms, then you're not going to defeat him.

BERMAN: I want to ask you about one bit of Washington business. We just got word from Josh Earnest, in the White House, that President Obama will meet with Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, on the issue of the Supreme Court next week. I don't think much will come from the meeting, but the fact of the meeting, that's a change.

TAPPER: Is that the victory? That the White House --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: It's a change.

[14:35:] TAPPER: -- that the Senate majority leader will meet with the president and all is well with the world? The bottom line is the Republicans control the Senate. And any time any Republican, whether Chuck Grassley or Senator Murkowski or anybody else, of maybe we'll have hearings and maybe a nominee should be given a hearing, immediately that person gets whacked and --

BERMAN: Right.

TAPPER: And reverses course and automatically starts saying no, no, no, no hearing, no hearing, no hearing. You saw with the Brian Sandoval incident, name leaked by Senate Democrats. As I understand, he was not a serious candidate for Obama. And yet, even a Republican governor, even a Republican governor, with the majority, the Republicans wouldn't even entertain a courtesy meeting with the Republican governor if he were nominated to the Supreme Court.

BERMAN: Can Vanno Val (ph) take his name out of the running?

TAPPER: Yeah, that's like you taking your name out of the running for 2020 presidential race. Nobody wants you to run.

BERMAN: Nobody wants me to run. And I'm not 35, so that's a problem, too.

Jake Tapper, great to have you with us.

TAPPER: You're like 43, at least.

BERMAN: Coming up, Donald Trump has promised to build a wall along the Mexican border and make Mexico pay for it, but moments ago, a former president of Mexico responded, I think he used a dirty word. You do not want to use it.

Also coming up, Donald Trump has already proven that he can handle himself on the debate stage, sometimes, not every time. This time around, though, he goes in with three straight wins at his back. Will that change his strategy? An award-winning debate coach joins us live. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:41:21] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight's debate is uncharted territory for the five remaining Republican candidates for president and for Donald Trump, it is not just the polls showing him in the lead. Now it's not just a hypothetical, tonight is about the votes that he has. Three could be consecutive wins. And the confidence that he very well could be the party's nominee. Does this at all, should it shift to strategy on stage tonight? What should he do?

Let's talk about it with a man who knows this stuff inside and out, Todd Graham, the debate director for Southern University at Carbondale.

I should note, sir, the national debate coach of the year for two years. So thank you for being here.

TODD GRAHAM, DEBATE DIRECTOR, SOUTHERN ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY, CARBONDALE: You're very welcome. Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: Let's look at this clip from Trump's performance in the last debate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH, (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: And you can't do that with Assad in power.

(CROSSTALK)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: We're supporting troops and we don't even know who they are.

(CROSSTALK)

BUSH: This is ridiculous --

(CROSSTALK)

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED MODERATOR: -- OK, Mr. Trump, all right --

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: We have no idea who they are.

UNIDENTIFIED MODERATOR: Gentlemen, think we're going to leave that there.

I have questions --

(CROSSTALK)

BUSH: This is the guy who goes his foreign policy from the shows.

(CROSSTALK)

(CHEERING)

BUSH: This is a guy who thinks Hillary Clinton was a great negotiator in Iran. We're living in dangerous times.

(CROSSTALK)

BUSH: This is a man who insults his way to the nomination.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Give me a break.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Let me take a quick break from this, because we want to bring you up some live pictures. John Kasich, now on stage, making the rounds as we look at this. As John Berman was saying this earlier, as he's with our Sam Fise (ph), Washington bureau chief. They want to get a feel for it. They want to get comfortable.

Right, Todd? This is very important when you go on stage, to be comfortable, make sure the lights aren't blinding you, get a sense for your bearings before the big show tonight. And for Kasich, it's so important to do well tonight.

GRAHAM: It's absolutely right. I always have my debate teams get to the auditorium first. We try to get set up. We try to get comfortable with where we are, with where the cameras, in this case, the judges, the audience. It's critical.

HARLOW: It is critical. He's seeing -- they're telling him things like where his family will be seated, et cetera, where he is on the stage in terms of the podiums. So John Kasich taking a tour of the stage. As we heard from John Berman earlier, doesn't look like Donald Trump is going to do that ahead of time.

All right, let's move on, because, Todd, I wanted your response to Trump and Bush going at each other in the last debate. You wrote an op-ed. You called it childish. But look at the numbers. After that, he won three straights in a row.

GRAHAM: He was going to win three states in a row regardless. That doesn't make his debating any better. Listen, I've actually said that Trump has had two good debates. In both of those debates, he sort of limited his name calling. He limited his interrupting. But in the last debate, in the very last debate we had, he was back at it again. He wouldn't let anyone speak without interrupting them. For a debate, it was a little unseemly. He was going to win anyway. For tonight, it's a little bit risky, because of who's in the audience.

HARLOW: Why do you say that?

GRAHAM: Well, because tonight the audience is the University of Houston. There's about 800 seats. It's an opera house. It's got very good, you know, sort communication from the speaker to the audience and then back. The audience has been very lively lately. Tonight, there will be more Latino voters and Hispanic voters because that's going to be a central theme of the debate and that's why I say it's a little bit risky for Trump. Because while Trump is running on a campaign of what I would call almost anti-immigrant and it's working for him, he will either have to do one of two things. Either he will try to placate the audience tonight, which doesn't sound like Donald Trump, so I don't think he'll pander to them, or perhaps he'll attack the audience if they boo him. He's done that in the past with some success.

[14:45:12] HARLOW: Let's talk about what else is critical tonight. We heard our Jake Tapper just say Cruz and Rubio have to throw a punch tonight. We know Cruz's camp came out this week. They said, look, he's hit a boiling point when it comes to Trump. Walk me through an effect attack against Trump would look like from Cruz what it will look like from Rubio.

GRAHAM: An effective attack from either one of them almost requires Trump to not interrupt and there's no better way to put it, because you have to have your speaking time if you need to go after Donald Trump, if you need to go after his positions or his lack of positions. But so far in every debate when they try to attack Trump, he simply interrupts them and the moderators let them get away with it. I think an effective attack would require Trump to be silent for a while. And the other thing is for Trump to get out in front of being called a liar. There's no doubt in my mind that Trump will call Cruz a liar again in tonight's debate. Given he fired his communications director for misleading the public, I think Cruz needs to get out in front of that debate and say, listen, there have been some mistakes in my campaign, but that doesn't mean we're running a dishonest campaign. I think he needs to get out in front to be a more effective debater.

HARLOW: Todd Graham, thank you. We appreciate your time, your expertise on this, as we look at John Kasich there, with our Sam Fise (ph), getting a tour of the stage, an explanation of what is ahead tonight, only right here, at 8:30 p.m. eastern, moderated by our very own Wolf Blitzer.

Coming up next, not mincing his words, the former president of Mexico responding to Donald Trump's promise to build a wall along the border and make Mexico pay for it. What he said is provocative. It is quite candid. You'll hear it right here, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:51:07] BERMAN: John Berman, here at the University of Houston in Houston, Texas, the sight of CNN's presidential debate, a Republican debate that takes place in just a few hours.

How important is this debate? Well, all the students you see behind me -- hi, guys --

(CHEERING)

They are excused from classes this afternoon so they can be here and be part of this event. That is a true story.

The stakes here in Texas, very, very high. A new poll out today shows Ted Cruz with a clear lead in this state. This is his home state. It votes next Tuesday. It is part of Super Tuesday. You can see the numbers right there, a 15-point lead. Cruz desperately needs this to be so. There was almost no path to victory for him that does not include Texas. He's asking Texans for their vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R), TEXAS & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The time for the clowns and the acrobats and the dancing bears has passed.

(CHEERING)

CRUZ: Now is the time for Texans to stand together.

Texas has 155 delegates.

(CHEERING)

CRUZ: It is the crown jewel of Super Tuesday.

(CHEERING)

CRUZ: Texas has alone almost 15 percent of the delegates you need to be the Republican nominee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I think I sensed a little bit of Texas twang there from Cruz for the first time in a long time.

Joining us now, two experts in Texas politics, Elizabeth Simas and Richard Murray. They are political science professors here at the University of Houston. Dick is also the co-director of another statewide poll that shows Ted Cruz with a 15-point lead over Trump.

Dick, let's start with the polling in Texas. Talk about the nature of the Cruz lead. How strong is it? And where might he be vulnerable?

RICHARD MURRAY, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, UNIVERSITY OF HOUSTON: His supporters were not quite as committed to their candidate as Trump who finished second here in Texas. It's not a lock solid lead, 35 points. Trump's 20. But 20 percent of the voters were undecided. With several candidates in the race in Texas and other states, there's a lot of movement.

HARLOW: Evangelical support Cruz has here appears stronger than the last couple of states, Nevada and South Carolina?

MURRAY: Yes. He lost the evangelicals in South Carolina. That was devastating. In our poll, he's winning them in Texas, not by a huge margin, but he's tolerably ahead.

BERMAN: Elizabeth, Texas has a political situation and a political scene here that in some ways, you know, is different than the rest of the country. In Texas, the immigration issue is part of everyday life. There's a long border with Mexico. A lot of shared relationships and values and a lot of interest with people across the border.

So today, I want to play some sound from you. The former president of Mexico, Vicente Fox, was on Fusion with Jorge Ramos, and he lashed out at Donald Trump about the wall and the fact he wants Mexico to pay for it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICENTE FOX, FORMER MEXICAN PRESIDENT: I declare, I'm not going to pay for that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) wall. He should pay for it. He's got the money.

JORGE RAMOS, FUSION REPORTER: Are you afraid he's going to be the next president of the United States?

FOX: Not at all.

RAMOS: What would that mean for Mexico?

FOX: Not at all. Democracy cannot take us to crazy people that doesn't know what's going on in the world today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Not only is he not going to pay for that wall, he's not going to pay for that "blanking" wall.

(LAUGHTER)

That's the former president of the nation of Mexico right there.

How does the immigration issue here play do you think for voters?

ELIZABETH SIMAS, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, UNIVERSITY OF HOUSTON: Oh, I think it's hugely important. You have to remember Texas is one of those proportional states so the areas closest to the border are going to matter and Trump is not going to be able to come in and win a huge chunk of delegates without winning at least some of the support along the areas where those issues are really the most important.

BERMAN: Dick, you see some of the views moderating on immigration?

MURRAY: Yeah. In north Texas, areas remote from Mexico, voters are more conservative. Trump's anti-immigrant appeal, it's much stronger there than along the border where people go back and forth all the time. Many people have business and family relations. It's a more moderate part of our state.

[14:55:20] BERMAN: Do you have a sense of the political machine Ted Cruz has? He's a freshman Senator. It's not like he has 30 years of service to fall back on, running election after election. He does have the support of a fairly popular governor.

SIMAS: I think what Ted Cruz has been able to do good getting his name out there is pretty remarkable. Like you said, for a freshman Senator, he's definitely a topic of national conversation, and he's proved that he's somebody who can make himself one of those names that's talked about in the Republican Party. BERMAN: All right, Elizabeth Simas, Richard Murray, thank you for

being with us. Really appreciate your time. Great to have you here.

Straight ahead, rumors swirling that some of the biggest supporters for Ted Cruz, some allies, some who have endorsed, they're getting impatient, getting squishy, getting wobbly. But the head of a prominent conservative group calls these claims baseless. Says there's no chance he would jump ship. Tony Perkins joins us live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)