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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Scalia Funeral Arrangements; Trump Takes Hits; Sanders Hits South Carolina. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired February 16, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:30] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, that is all for us today. "LEGAL VIEW" starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Jim Sciutto, in again today for Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

And we begin today with breaking news at this hour. A source close to the family of Antonin Scalia says that the late Supreme Court justice will lie in repose at the court on Friday this week with a funeral taking place on Saturday. This first reported by our colleague Jamie Gingel (ph).

I'm joined now by my colleague, Evan Perez. He's with me here in Washington. I'm also joined by CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. He's in New York.

Evan, if I could begin with you. What further details do we know about where the funeral may take place and how things proceed from here?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, we know that there's still a lot of planning taking place right now, Jim. We don't know exactly which church. We know his son is a priest in northern Virginia, and we know he attended church here in D.C.

SCIUTTO: And he's a catholic.

PEREZ: And he's a catholic, obviously. But we don't know whether perhaps they might use the National Cathedral, which, obviously, would be -- would be something that -- for -- for a supreme -- a sitting Supreme Court justice would befit his position.

SCIUTTO: Former presidents and others, senators, have -- have had their funerals there.

PEREZ: Right. Exactly. Exactly. And it is something that is possible because you can have catholic ceremonies or catholic mass at the National Cathedral. So that is a possibility. We don't know whether that is something the family is going to -- is going to ask for.

SCIUTTO: OK.

Jeffrey Toobin, just in terms of history, when is the last time, if ever, that a Supreme Court justice laid -- laid in state at the Supreme Court and what does that event look like?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, it's -- it's -- I have a very vivid memory of when Chief Justice Rehnquist, who also died in office, lay in repose in the great hall of the Supreme Court. I happened to be there at the moment that Justice Scalia walked by and paid his respects. And Justice Scalia, who was an emotional man, an operatic man, he had tears pouring down his cheeks. You know, he had been -- he had replaced Chief Justice Rehnquist, when Chief Justice Rehnquist was elevated from associate justice to chief justice. You know, they were very close allies for many years. And it is one of the great rooms of Washington, D.C., the great hall of the Supreme Court. It's very somber. You're surrounded by busts of all the former chief justices. And a constant stream of people paying their respects goes by. And it's just a very moving place. And it very much speaks to the court. And there are photographs, I hope we have, of -- they have draped Justice Scalia's chair --

SCIUTTO: That's right.

TOOBIN: In the courtroom -- there it is, in black. The front of the doorway to the Supreme Court chamber, there it is, also draped in black. You know, the Supreme Court is an institution that respects its ceremonies. And the court always starts on time. The court hands out its opinions on time. And the reverence with which a Supreme Court justice is given final respects is also part of the traditions in the Supreme Court.

SCIUTTO: It's an enormous honor. I mean you picture those moments, whether at the Supreme Court for Rehnquist or on Capitol Hill, lying in state there. This reserved for really some of the greatest figures in American history.

I want to ask you, Evan, you know, as this happens, you have, of course, honoring the man.

PEREZ: Right.

SCIUTTO: But you have his vacancy still going on.

PEREZ: Right.

SCIUTTO: And political battle shaping up. But as that plays out, what happens to the cases that are before the court? Several important cases, in fact.

PEREZ: Right. Even the cases that, for instance, we know he's already voted on, those don't become official until there is a seating of the -- of the -- of the court and they read their opinions. So what this means is that we don't know what those votes are, but it really has potential impacts on some very big cases, including ones dealing with immigration, they're dealing with president's executive powers, dealing with Obamacare and contraception. So --

SCIUTTO: And union powers as well.

PEREZ: And union powers. There are some tremendous cases. Everybody's following it very closely because if these end up being 4-4, then the lower court ruling stands, and so that really could flip the decision based on what has happened with the passing of Justice Scalia.

SCIUTTO: Evan Perez, Jeffrey Toobin, just again repeating the breaking news, we're learning just now of the arrangements for the late Supreme Court justice, Antonin Scalia, that he will lie in repose, an enormous honor, at the Supreme Court this Friday, followed by a funeral on Saturday, first reported by our colleague Jamie Gingel.

[12:05:11] Thanks to Evan and Jeffrey Toobin.

Please stay with us, because we're going to move now to politics. Civility, a distant memory, if it was ever a memory at all as the GOP race intensifies in South Carolina. Instead, voters are now witnessing an increasingly vitriolic battle with the most bitter personal attacks fair game. Candidates are sharpening their rhetoric with just four days left until voters head to the polls in South Carolina. Donald Trump and Marco Rubio are calling Ted Cruz a liar, while the Texas senator is dismissing their claims.

Meanwhile, Jeb Bush's campaign is taking aim at Trump. Bush is pleading with voters reject the, quote, "politics of division" splitting his party, while also standing by the legacy of his brother, former President George W. Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I never thought in a Republican debate we would be talking about impeaching a Republican two-term president who was extraordinarily popular for good reason amongst Republicans. I thought that was a little weird. I thought it was a little strange that a front running candidate would attack the president of the United States, who did keep us safe, while he was building a reality TV show. I'm sure it was a fantastic one. I've never seen it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, Jeb's big brother is entering the fray himself. President Bush in the palmetto state taking aim at Trump. Though he did not mention the frontrunner by name, bush 43 left no doubt who he was talking about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Jeb's a man of humble, deep and genuine faith. Faith that reveals itself through good works, not loud words.

These are tough times. And I understand that Americans are angry and frustrated. But we do not need someone in the Oval Office who mirrors and inflames our anger and frustration.

There seems to be a lot of name calling going on, but I want to remind you what our good dad told me one time, labels are for soup cans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, Trump is responding to President George W. Bush. The frontrunner doubling down on his attack saying the president did not keep the country safe during 9/11.

Meanwhile, Trump told me yesterday on "The Lead" that this divisive back and forth could hurt his own party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: As the rhetoric between you and Mr. Cruz and others reaches this sort of vitriolic pitch, I wonder if you're concerned at all that that will hurt you or whoever the Republican candidate is in the general election in the fall?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): It probably will to a certain extent, but I think we'll get over it. Whoever it is. I think you get over it and you go and you have to fight Hillary probably or whoever it might be. Maybe it's Bernie. I can't believe how poorly Hillary's doing. But probably it's going to be Hillary, because she's being protected by the Democrats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, let's get more on the campaign trail from CNN's Athena Jones. She is following the Bush campaign, and CNN's senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta gathering the latest on Mr. Trump.

So, Jim, if I could start with you. Trump says that this vitriolic pitch in this race will probably hurt the party come November, including himself if he turns out to be the nominee. But, at the same time, are you seeing any signs of him backing down from the kind of rhetoric?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, no, not at all, Jim. And I -- we'll have to see how Donald Trump handles himself at this rally that's coming up here this afternoon in North Augusta, South Carolina. I thought it was interesting to listen to Donald Trump at that press conference just outside of Charleston yesterday. Even though he was continuing his attacks on Jeb Bush, almost stylistically he was -- he was ratcheting things down a notch. He was explaining why he was going after George W. Bush, saying that, well, Jeb Bush brought up the -- the -- this claim that his brother kept the country safe during, you know, his time in office for eight years, and Donald Trump felt like he was compelled to say, no, that's just not true. The September 11th attacks happened on George W. Bush's watch.

And it was interesting to hear Donald Trump sort of methodically explain at the beginning of that press conference when I asked him, well, do you have -- is there bad blood between you and the Bush family and he said, no, there's no bad blood. But, you know, the way Donald Trump has pivoted away from the Bush family for just a few moments to go after Ted Cruz, and even Marco Rubio last night during an event in Greenville, Donald Trump went after Marco Rubio and said he was sweating so much during that GOP debate on Saturday, it looked like Marco Rubio had stepped out of a swimming pool. And then earlier this morning on "Good Morning America," Donald Trump was saying about Ted Cruz, calling him a liar and a -- over and over again and saying that he was essentially on the verge of filing a lawsuit, saying that his lawyers are looking into this. He's taking it very seriously.

So Donald Trump, you know, there is no shortage of targets for Donald Trump here in South Carolina. And it is adding to this overall atmosphere that you were asking Donald Trump about yesterday, is -- is this such a blood bath that the party can't recover? But, Jim, we've seen campaign after campaign in these last presidential cycles, whether it was between George W. Bush and John McCain, or between Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich, you know, the party does tend to heal itself and move on to the general election, although this is an unprecedented presidential cycle. So we'll have to see.

[12:10:30] SCIUTTO: Well, Athena, so Jeb, he's been part of this fray, more so than he had been earlier in the campaign. What more is he saying this morning as this battle heats up?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, he's made some references to Donald Trump, saying that he'll be not an agitator in chief, but a commander in chief. That's a line we hear from him quite a bit. He also ridiculed the idea of a big, beautiful border wall to deal with illegal immigration from the southern border. And he said that it's not a good idea to talk about, for instance, outsourcing the problems with North Korea and its nuclear ambitions to China. So he made some references to Trump, but not quite in the same way we've heard either in earlier events or even on the stage last night.

We've seen Jeb Bush in many events talk about how he's the only one going after Trump on the debate stage. He didn't do that so much today. And I should mention, he did also bring up one of his other top rivals, Marco Rubio. The senator who is his former protege. He said, you know, Rubio argues that he has foreign national security experience because of his committee assignments. I have experience being the commander in chief of the National Guard. I think you should pay attention to my experience. So toned down a bit when it comes to Donald Trump today.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Athena Jones, Jim Acosta, thanks for joining us from the trail.

Let's dial -- dive in further into the GOP primary race in South Carolina. Here now to discuss, CNN commentator S.E. Cupp, along with Matt Schlapp. He's the chairman of the American Conservative Union. He's also a former political director for President George W. Bush.

Matt, first on that topic with W. now on the trail for Jeb. Do you think this move to bring him out will give Jeb a bump in South Carolina?

MATT SCHLAPP, CHAIRMAN, AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE UNION: Yes, I really do. I mean he was getting all the negatives of having the Bush family name and all the negatives associated with people who might be upset with his brother's presidency. It's about time he figured out a way to get some of the positives with his mother on the trail in New Hampshire and his brother on the trail for him last night in South Carolina.

I think, look, on the issue that Donald Trump is hitting Jeb Bush on, it's national security, it's 9/11, these are areas where George W. Bush gets very high marks, not just from Republicans, but from all Americans. So it's kind of a strange attack to me. There are things you could attack President Bush on. This is not the area where you should, and certainly not in South Carolina. This is all a win for Jeb Bush.

SCIUTTO: S.E., I wonder if you agree on that? South Carolina, of course, has a lot of military bases there. There are a lot of military families. Do you think that that's a dangerous line of attack from Donald Trump?

S.E. CUPP, CNN COMMENTATOR: Well, yes. I mean, no one but Cold Pink wants to re-litigate, you know, George Bush's role in 9/11. And actually after the debate, you saw Code Pink come out and endorse Donald Trump's language on the war. It was a very strange line of attack for Trump. Probably works with his, you know, small group of supporters, but not at large.

The thing that no one talks about when it comes to the Bushs in South Carolina, I mean Matt's absolutely right, they're very popular in South Carolina. It's a military state. It's, you know, popular to defend a hawkish point of view. But what no one really remembers is that all Jeb needs is a confidence boost. And if all he gets from bringing W. out and seeing his mom on the campaign trail is a bit of a confidence boost, this is a win for Jeb Bush. The one or two-point upswing in a state poll that's probably within the margin of error might be the least consequential benefit of getting the family back together again.

SCIUTTO: Well, eventually, though, he's got to turn that confidence into numbers, I imagine.

CUPP: Absolutely.

SCIUTTO: But, Matt, the other big story line we've been talking about, the growing feud, Rubio versus Trump versus Cruz, everyone calling everyone a liar. Let's just have a look at one of those exchanges here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Two of the candidates in this race, Donald Trump and Marco Rubio, both have the very same pattern. Whenever anyone points out their record, they simply start screaming, liar, liar, liar. It's a very odd dynamic. You're right, it brings name-calling as not a positive thing in politics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: So, Matt, you heard Donald Trump say to us yesterday that this could hurt the GOP nominee in a general election. Do you agree with that, I suppose? And if so, do you think that's going to stop anybody? SCHLAPP: You know, we all worry about it because, in the end, we have

to figure out a way to come together and unify, and this is some pretty tough talk. But, remember, Bob Dole told George Bush he was lying about his record. We remember all of these past charges that take place in these campaigns. It always gets heated. People always get called liars. Names get called. And in the end, these candidates will come together.

[12:15:09] What I really worry about more is, do all these Trump supporters and Ted Cruz supporters and Marco Rubio supporters and Jeb Bush supporters, will they all come together? When people take on Trump so aggressively, they need to remember, they're taking on his supporters as well. And it's imperative for Republicans to stitch this coalition together if we're to beat Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders.

SCIUTTO: S.E., that is a problem because in effect you're calling the candidate a liar --

CUPP: Yes.

SCIUTTO: But to some degree you're calling his supporters liars, too, right, because they tend to buy that line of argument, right?

CUPP: Yes. Look, that's always -- that's always tough. I think the mistake that the party made in 2012 was completely dismissing everyone else's supporters but Mitt Romney's. And the party sort of thought, well, we don't need them. And actually we did. And so Matt's right, we need -- we need Trump's supporters to attach to someone else if he is not the eventual nominee, and the same is true of everyone else.

The problem I have is, I don't think Donald Trump is particularly concerned about the future of the Republican Party. I think he's concerned about his own future. He's talked about running as an independent. I think he's got very little allegiance to the health of the Republican Party in the future. That's what I'm concerned about. And so this race, I think, has been damaging for the health of the party in the future and it will be up to a lot of us to sort of cobble it back together when this is all done.

SCIUTTO: S.E. Cupp, Matt Schlapp, thanks for breaking it down for us.

All six of the Republican candidates are going to be a part of two town halls this week right here on CNN. They will take questions from voters in South Carolina tomorrow night and Thursday, both at 8:00 eastern, only here on CNN.

And up next, today it's not just Republicans fighting hard for South Carolina, the Democrats may sound a bit more civil at the moment, but it is a battle nonetheless, with Bernie Sanders pulling out the stops to pull off an upset. We'll talk to an insider about his strategy right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:52] SCIUTTO: Just four days from the Nevada Democratic caucuses and a week and a half from the South Carolina Democratic primary, Bernie Sanders is in Columbia, South Carolina, today, hoping to prove that after his big win in New Hampshire he can win anywhere. Sanders attended a faith leaders breakfast this morning where he predicted the results in South Carolina could surprise people, and he continued his push as the anti-establishment candidate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Without vision, the people will perish. Now, I don't claim to be a biblical scholar, but I know how important that is. Throughout history, people have shown incredible courage and saying, we're not going to accept the status quo. I know everybody says we can't bring about change, right? But we're not going to accept it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Right now, Sanders is holding a town hall in South Carolina. He'll be joined there later by Erika Garner (ph). She's at the daughter of Eric Garner, who died after being put in a police choke hold in New York. These are live pictures of that Sanders town hall.

Well, South Carolina State representative Cezar McKnight joins me now from Columbia. He supports Bernie Sanders.

Cezar, I understand you were at the faith leaders breakfast this morning. What was the candidate's message today?

REP. CEZAR MCKNIGHT (D), SOUTH CAROLINA STATE HOUSE: Good afternoon.

Yes, I was at the faith breakfast. And his message has been the one that he's been articulating since the beginning of the campaign, that the system in the United States is broken, there's too much campaign finance money with the Citizen's United decision, and that the economic disparity between the poor and the rich is growing at an astronomical rate and that something must be done. That was his message today.

SCIUTTO: So let me ask you a question. There's a lot of talk about whether Bernie Sanders can break through what's been referred to as Hillary Clinton's firewall, strong support among African-Americans. And South Carolina being the first test of this because it has a big African-American population. I wonder if you believe the message you just described, that he delivered at the breakfast, is one that can break through -- oh, sorry, are you hearing me, Representative McKnight? Can you hear me?

Sorry, I think we're having some audio problems with the South Carolina representative. We're going to continue that interview right after this break. And we're going to be asking him as well as an influential South Carolina state lawmaker whose backing Hillary Clinton, get their thoughts on who has the best chance coming in this upcoming vote. Actually, before we go to break, looks like we fixed that audio problem.

Representative McKnight, can you hear me now?

MCKNIGHT: Yes, I can.

SCIUTTO: Fantastic. Great to have you back. So I'm just going to repeat the question I was asking before we lost you there. The conventional wisdom is that Hillary Clinton has such strong support among African-Americans in South Carolina, this firewall as it's sometimes is referred to. I wonder if the message you described that Bernie Sanders was delivering this morning at the faith breakfast is one that can break through and peel away some of that support from Hillary Clinton?

MCKNIGHT: It's clear that the message is breaking through and peeling away some support from Secretary Clinton. If you look at the numbers that we have now. When Bernie Sanders first announced he was running for president, in South Carolina he had support of around 7 percent. Now we see that support growing. So it's clear that the message that he's talking -- the message that he's giving to the communities is one that's resonating with African-Americans. They know wholeheartedly that the great recession has hurt -- impacted them greater than any other community, and they know and can tell that he's honest and sincere when he says that he has a way to fix it and bring economic prosperity back to our community.

SCIUTTO: Before the Democratic Party primary in your state, Sanders, of course has the caucuses in Nevada, he needs to win Nevada. Is his appeal among younger, working class Americans strong as well? Do you see that message appealing to them as well?

MCKNIGHT: I'm sorry, could you repeat that? I lost you.

SCIUTTO: No problem. Can you hear me now?

[12:25:03] Representative McKnight, maybe he'll --

MCKNIGHT: (INAUDIBLE).

SCIUTTO: It appears we're having the same audio problems we had before. We're going to do our best to fix those. That was Cezar McKnight. He's a supporter of Bernie Sanders in South Carolina.

Coming up next, I'm going to talk an influential South Carolina state lawmaker whose backing Hillary Clinton and get his thoughts on how to beat back this Sanders revolution.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:29:51] SCIUTTO: Hillary Clinton is in Harlem, New York, today meeting with civil rights leaders there. And at 3:00 this afternoon, she'll deliver a major speech on racism. The speech comes as Clinton hopes to show she has the overwhelming support from minority communities. What Clinton supporters call her firewall. Support that her campaign says will give her the edge over Bernie Sanders in the next two state battles ahead.