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Trump Campaign Event; Trump Attacks Cruz. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired February 15, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:02]

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I mean, Cruz, as I said, he's the single worst liar I have ever seen.

If people believe the lies, then, you know, we won't make America great again, because nobody else is going to be able to do it but me. Believe me, I know my competition. They're all bought and paid for by the special interests.

They're not going to negotiate with the lumber companies, the drug companies, the oil and gas companies, the -- any of them. They're not going to make good trade deals, because trade deals are made by the lobbyists and the special interests.

Me, I'm going to have the greatest trade deals ever made. We're going to become rich again, and we're going to become great again. But I know my opponents. So, the thing that I would say, if I had a doubt, is when a guy is allowed to lie like Ted Cruz, where you can just say -- take an issue, boom, just make it the opposite, boom, make it the opposite, with no fact at all, and then I will get an apology.

On Sunday, I will get a phone call. Listen, I just want to say, I didn't realize -- OK -- like Carson did. Ben Carson got a call two hours after the election. He got a call. Frankly, in Iowa, they should have overturned the election based on what Cruz did, honestly, because he was so dishonest.

Between the voter violation and that, they should actually overturn it. If they had a strong leader in Iowa in terms of the Republican Party -- Jeff is a good guy, but perhaps he's not strong -- I don't know -- but what Cruz did is a fraud. What they should do is overturn that election.

OK, one more question. Go ahead. How about you in the back?

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

TRUMP: OK. No, he wouldn't be on my short list. No, he would not be.

OK, good luck, everybody. Thank you.

Yes?

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) TRUMP: The RNC is in default. OK?

The RNC -- just you so understand, the RNC is in default. Yes, I understand. When somebody is in default, that means the other side can do what they have to do, OK? The RNC is in default. The RNC gave all the tickets to special interests that represented Cruz and Rubio.

They had all the tickets. They walked on stage and the place went crazy. It was sort of interesting. One guy has got very low in the polls, the other one is pretty low in the polls. I'm very high. There was nobody in the room. I had my wife and kids, OK?

Because I don't have donors. I don't have donors and I don't have special interests. I don't have any of that. But I think the RNC did a very poor job. Now, we have warned them twice, because this happened twice before, so we have warned them, and they don't listen. I think the RNC is controlled.

The bottom line is the RNC is controlled by the establishment, and the RNC is controlled by the special interests and the donors, and that's too bad, because that's not good for the race. And that's why the Republican Party for president has lost so much for so long.

Thank you all very much. I appreciate it. Thank you.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: OK. Wow. Donald Trump news conference. How long did that thing last? Fifty minutes, 45 minutes there?

He talked about the RNC. He doubled down on what he had said about President Bush, the personal attacks with Jeb Bush, talked Mexico, talked Keystone pipeline, talked Guantanamo Bay. But the headline from that news conference, he is on a warpath, it seemed, to take Ted Cruz down.

Let me bring in my panel, and then I'm going to read a little bit of this Donald Trump sort of letter. And then Ted Cruz , by the way, is responding as well.

I have CNN national political commentator Maeve Reston, CNN political commentator Van Jones, who served in the Obama administration, CNN political commentator John Avlon, who is also editor in chief of Daily Beast, CNN political contributor and Republican strategist Margaret Hoover and Lou Gargiulo from the Trump campaign.

Whew. Here we go. Welcome to all of you.

And let me first just read this. This is the headline, by the way. This is from team Trump. "Trump responds to the lies of Senator Cruz." He called Cruz just now a basket case, unstable, questioning his faith again, his Christianity, and said he had never met a person who lies more than Ted Cruz.

Let me read graphs. This is a lengthy letter, graphs from Donald Trump. "Ted Cruz is a totally unstable individual. He is the single biggest liar I have ever come across in politics or otherwise and I have seen some of the best of them. His statements are totally untrue and completely outrageous. It's hard to believe a person who proclaims to be a Christian could be so dishonest and lie so much."

He goes through in this letter about what Cruz is saying on Trump being pro-choice and Obamacare and Second Amendment rights and voter fraud violation of Dr. Carson he says in Iowa. It culminates with this graph, if I may.

"One of the ways I can fight back is to bring a lawsuit against him relative to the fact that he was born in Canada and therefore cannot be president. If he doesn't take down his false ads and retract his lies, I will do so immediately. In addition, the RNC should intervene, and if they don't, they are in default of their pledge to me."

Where do we begin?

[15:05:03]

Maeve Reston, to you first. Wow? This is all about taking down Ted Cruz.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wow. It is.

We thought it was going to get really dirty in South Carolina and apparently that's what's happening here. But, as we saw today, Trump going very hard after Cruz, but also Cruz today going very hard after Trump. It's important to remember the context of this brawl between the two of them, first of all, that Ted Cruz has put out a very tough ad in South Carolina questioning Trump, whether Trump is a true conservative, essentially using Justice Scalia's death to say to conservatives once again, do you trust this guy? He's spoken in support of abortion in the past. He says he's changed his mind, but can you trust him?

And so Cruz is trying to go back after Trump on all of those attacks. What we know obviously from both these men is that they are seeing the impact of these attacks on their polling numbers. Ted Cruz clearly going very hard against this idea that he's a liar. That was a tough debate for him the other night.

So it's kind of a battle to the finish here with so many different brawls going on in all these different corners. It's almost hard to keep track of.

BALDWIN: Mind spinning with these different storylines.

And, Lou Gargiulo, let me just make sure I go to you as the Trump supporter here. Looking down at the Ted Cruz Twitter page, 11 minutes ago, Ted Cruz responding to all this, tweeting: "You cannot simply scream liar when someone points out your actual positions."

He's keeping his feet firmly down as far as what he has said about Mr. Trump. What do you think?

LOU GARGIULO, TRUMP CAMPAIGN CO-CHAIRMAN, ROCKINGHAM COUNTY, NEW HAMPSHIRE: I think it's indisputable that Ted Cruz is a liar. If one only looks at what he did to Ben Carson in Iowa and some of the

horrific things he said about Mr. Trump in the past few weeks, he doesn't demonstrate the kind of integrity I think we want in a presidential candidate.

With that said, I think Mr. Trump going after him is appropriate and he should continue to, because one has to flush out the real Ted Cruz. And the real Ted Cruz, as Mr. Trump said just a few minutes ago, is a liar, is disingenuous and is not fit to be president of the United States.

BALDWIN: Turning to the two of you now. We have been reading through the statement and sort of listening to Mr. Trump there. And he is essentially saying to Ted Cruz, if you don't retract your lies, I will sue you based upon your eligibility to become president of the United States. Reaction, please?

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I mean, this is not the first time. Donald Trump loves playing the birther card. Right? Four years ago...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Bringing it back.

(CROSSTALK)

AVLON: ... on the same issue. Look, it is fascinating to see Donald Trump get in a spat with Ted Cruz calling him a liar because, you know, this is a guy who's been truth-challenged in a lot of his free- form sort of political jabs himself.

But there's deep bad blood obviously between these two folks. It is flowing over. Remember, these guys had a detente not that long ago, but now they're going at each other hard in a state known for dirty politics. If he files that suit and escalates to that level, that is really -- this is just a simple threat. This is the threat of legal violence and a deep distraction.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: You know what? I totally disagree that it's a deep distraction, because, actually, there's already been a lawsuit filed.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: He mentioned two.

HOOVER: There's at least one that I have read about in "The New York Times" and "New York Post" today or in "The New York Daily News." This is a guy named Newton Schwartz in the Southern District of Texas who is a Democrat who has filed a case.

Look, somebody is going to have to file a case. The Supreme Court is going to have to finally weigh in, because it truly hasn't been actually settled by the Supreme Court.

(CROSSTALK)

AVLON: There's a totally -- difference between Newton Schwartz and Donald Trump.

HOOVER: Yes, absolutely true, precisely, precisely.

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: A lawsuit's going to have to be filed. It takes it to a new level that the candidate then decides to file it against the other one.

What I have been saying for a week now is that bloodbath we have been talking about in South Carolina was going to happen.

(CROSSTALK)

AVLON: This is the blood bath

HOOVER: Nothing to do with the mainstream candidate.

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: When you look at the GOP primary electorate in South Carolina, they're 65 percent evangelical, and Ted Cruz has a solid 28 percent of them who are the college-educated evangelicals. There are 37 percent non-college-educated evangelicals.

And that is who Donald Trump is going after strongly. They vote more on economic themes than sort of values voters, moralistic themes. And that's why Trump was up there talking about trade, talking about building walls, talking about these economic themes that really are resonating with disaffected Republican voters now.

AVLON: And the system being rigged, him calling out donors by name and basically saying that the Republican Party is rigged by big money, that's bombshell stuff.

BALDWIN: Should intervene. The RNC should intervene. If they don't, they're default of their pledge to me.

Van Jones, I want to hear your voice, the Dem here amongst all of these folks taking this in. This is presidential politics. We're days before this all-important South Carolina primary and this bloodbath.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, well, three things struck me about this.

Number one, the threat that he might actually -- he's going to break out of this pledge -- he said he would not run against the Republican Party as an independent. He just put that back into play.

[15:10:03]

BALDWIN: He just opened that door, didn't he? (CROSSTALK)

JONES: That's a major, major change that just happened.

I think people have to take that very, very seriously. The other thing is, he's doing something very unusual. I'm a Southerner. I'm from Tennessee. He has doubled down now on this Jeb Bush thing. He's not doing it in the way you would expect.

The way you would expect him to do it is say, listen, Bill Clinton let the terrorists in. George W. Bush didn't keep us safe. And then Obama screwed it up. All the politicians are bad. I'm going to be non-politician to fix it.

You would expect him to make a sandwich with a Clinton, W., and then Obama. He's not doing that. He's leaving Clinton out. He's leaving Obama out. He's going directly after W. That is bizarre. I'm going to tell you, as a Southerner, if this does not blow up on his face, nothing can stop this guy, because it should stop him.

But the third thing he did that was very interesting, he talked about the black community and he tried to drive a wedge between Latino dreamers and African-Americans. This is a very sinister move, and you may see him start doing this over and over again. Somebody raised the dreamers, the young Latinos that everyone loves.

He puts them down. He says they're not Americans. I care about Americans. He pivots directly to blacks. This guy is going to start trying to sow dissension not just in the Republican ranks, but within America itself. He's going to trying to split the Obama coalition. This guy is very, very dangerous and bad news for America.

BALDWIN: Dangerous bad news, sinister.

Lou Gargiulo, I just have to get you to respond to that.

GARGIULO: Mr. Trump is speaking the truth.

I mean, the black community has been disenfranchised by the Democrats for a very long time. And when you start considering people who have come here illegally and putting them ahead of the black community, I think we certainly do have a concern.

And we should rise up and take care of those people who are citizens of the United States first. And if there is money and resources left over, then more than help -- happy to help others. But right now, we should lend those resources to the people who need the most.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Van. Go ahead.

JONES: One of the great things about President Obama is that there was -- this sort of thing you just heard, which I think is very disturbing, was very prevalent. I live in California now, that Latinos, the Mexicans vs. the blacks, all this sort of stuff and people fighting at the bottom over crumbs.

And Obama's leadership said, listen, let's stop that. Let's try to be one country. And people say Obama's so divisive. Guess what? You don't see African-Americans and Latinos fighting anymore. The idea that a Donald Trump would jump in and try to restart that old fight, I think is very, very disgusting.

AVLON: Yes, and Donald's whole game is divide and conquer and it's done under the banner of bring us together.

But what Van just pointed out is happening. And I don't think anyone going to believe that Donald Trump's primary motivation for running for president is to take care of the African-American community.

BALDWIN: Let me just jump in. Let me jump in for a second. Hang on. Hang on.

I want to bring another voice in to all of this from South Carolina, from Charleston. I have Jim Dyke, a top Jeb Bush adviser there and former communications adviser to President George W. Bush.

In addition to attack after attack after attack of Senator Cruz here, you know, you heard him again on Jeb Bush. You heard him again on Bush 43, who we know we're hours away from finally for the first time in years really seeing him out on the trail. And understanding why he's going, he being Donald Trump, is going after the former president. What do you make of that?

JIM DYKE, JEB BUSH ADVISER: When Donald Trump feels threatened, he attacks. And that's clearly what he's done again today and he did in the debate.

These are serious times. They require serious people and serious solutions. And Donald Trump is just a total absence on all those fronts. You can't insult women and disparage war heroes. You can't insult your way to the presidency.

So it's another day of Trumpisms and Trump campaigning, but it's not going to do anything to bring America together. It's not going to do anything to solve the problems we have in Washington, D.C., fixing broken systems. Jeb Bush plans to do all that.

I think there's a real contrast you're going to see between Jeb Bush in South Carolina and Donald Trump and the other candidates, the man who's ready to be commander in chief. I mean, you know, Trump seems to have become the Republican Michael Moore, and I'm not sure that's going to play well in South Carolina, where we have a significant military population. We have got a significant veterans population.

People are really looking closely to see who can sit behind the desk in the Oval Office and fix the problems that face us. And the reason Jeb Bush is such a credible candidate is because he has done it in Florida.

[15:15:05] That's why his record's important. That's why experience is

important. You can make a lot of promises, but you have got to be able to achieve things. And he's got not only the plans to fix these problems and really break apart these industrial age institutions in Washington, D.C.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But back on President Bush, when we see him tonight, does he directly address these attacks being thrown out over and over from Mr. Trump?

DYKE: Well, if memory serves me from my time, the president likes to deliver his own remarks, so I think you're just going to have to wait and see on that front.

BALDWIN: But from your time and knowledge of the president, would this be something -- I have talked to a lot of people today. I did three hours of TV this morning and everyone I talked to said he would not, and I'm quoting him, lower himself to address Donald Trump. Would you agree?

DYKE: Well, President Bush has great respect for the presidency. It's an institution that he values. And what I think you will see tonight is him as someone who's been commander in chief, as someone who's kept our country safe.

I think you will hear him say that he who understands what's necessary views his brother Jeb as the best person to sit in the chair behind the desk in the Oval Office to keep America safe, to reform our Veterans Administration, to rebuild our military, to put forward an actual plan.

I know you don't hear a lot of plans when it comes to a Donald Trump press conference, but plans to defeat ISIS. He's the most experienced foreign policy candidate. And I think you will see a validation of that. It's also an opportunity for Jeb to talk tonight more about his record and about his plans.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But we heard him, Jim, when we were watching Saturday night this debate in Greenville. You know, it wasn't just Trump who was hurling insults. What would you say to critics who say it was embarrassing also to see Governor Bush hurling insults as well?

DYKE: No, I don't -- I think what Governor Bush was doing -- look, people have different records. And what Governor Bush has been doing all along is talking about his record, his plans to change Washington, to put new systems in place, so that we can get America working again.

And, look, other candidates on the stage have different views or in the case of Donald Trump sometimes have no view at all, or, as he likes to say, he can become whatever he wants to be. And so trying to sort of pin that down can get a little -- can get a little difficult. But I think Jeb made clear that -- and it's not just former President Bush who believes that he's the best commander in chief, but we have got over 100 veterans on our leadership veterans coalition here in South Carolina, two Medal of Honor winners.

So there's sort of a broad body that believes that the guy who's best prepared to be president of the United States, commander in chief who will take on these issues and get our country moving in the right direction again for a better tomorrow is Jeb Bush.

BALDWIN: We will be watching your candidate tonight, Jim Dyke, a top Jeb Bush adviser in South Carolina, former communications adviser to President George W. Bush, thank you so much, sir. I really appreciate it.

And, listen, as we look ahead to the South Carolina primary, the bloodbath continues. We have heard now from Donald Trump calling Ted Cruz a basket case, saying that Ted Cruz is totally unstable, saying he's the single biggest liar he's ever come across. And you know what? Ted Cruz is about to respond. We will take it live.

Quick break. We're back in a quick moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:22:36]

BALDWIN: My goodness, these gloves are off ahead of South Carolina.

We just heard from Donald Trump. Now you're looking at live pictures here, Ted Cruz speaking at an event in Camden, South Carolina. He's just saying hello, introductions right now. We are going to take him live in just a moment.

But he has responded to Donald Trump's attacks. We mentioned a moment ago he tweeted, "You cannot simply scream liar when someone points out your actual positions."

Here's a piece of Ted Cruz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, it is a curious thing. Two the candidates of this race, Donald Trump and Marco Rubio, both have the very same pattern.

Whenever anyone points out their record, they simply start screaming liar, liar, liar. It's a very odd dynamic. You're right. It brings -- name-calling is not a positive thing in politics. And when others have engaged in personal insults and attacks, I have not reciprocated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And now let's go to Ted Cruz speaking live in South Carolina.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

CRUZ: ... from a radical five-justice liberal majority on the court the likes of which this country has never seen.

The existing court we have is already a judicial activist extreme court. But one more liberal justice, and we will see our constitutional rights swept aside at a level never before seen in the history of this country.

We're one justice away from the Supreme Court mandating abortion on demand with no limits up to the moment of delivery, partial-birth, with taxpayer funding and no parental notification, striking down every state restriction on abortion we have.

We are one justice away from the Supreme Court effectively reading the Second Amendment out of the Constitution. You know, Justice Scalia's single most consequential opinion was his opinion in Heller vs. District of Columbia, a landmark case where I had the privilege of representing 31 states defending the Second Amendment's right to keep and bear arms. And we won by 5-4.

(APPLAUSE)

BALDWIN: All right, Ted Cruz. We're keeping a close eye on this, bringing back the panel, including now -- we have a new voice here -- Jonathan Martin, as we're watching, CNN "INSIDE POLITICS" contributor and reporter for "The New York Times."

Jonathan Martin, your thoughts?

[15:25:03]

JONATHAN MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It's a South Carolina shoot-off.

I mean, it's going to be a really intense race. Trump is a master manipulator of the media. And he has been for decades. And you see him doing that again. The fact that he has that press conference the day that George W. Bush comes to South Carolina...

BALDWIN: Hours before.

MARTIN: ... and lobs those kinds of charges shows you the gift he has for, you know, taking advantage of what we're willing to do, which is cover him nonstop.

And so, you know, he is once again showing his skills at this game. It's striking to me, though, Brooke, that more folks in the party, that more Republicans aren't concerned about what he is doing.

I mean, here you have somebody who is the GOP front-runner who is openly mocking the last GOP president about the most consequential event in recent American history. It's remarkable.

BALDWIN: Lou, want you to respond to that and what he said about -- what your candidate, Donald Trump, has said about Bush 43.

GARGIULO: I think what he said is unfortunate about Bush 43.

I think that, though, there's a great deal of frustration about what happened in the Iraq War by a lot of Republicans, a lot of mainstream people who view the war retrospectively as a huge mistake, and also view how we removed ourselves from Iraq as an even worse mistake.

And with that said, I think there's a lot of support for the fact that we made terrible errors in the past and we're looking for somebody who speaks the truth who says what's on his mind and is willing to make the difficult decisions. Going into Iraq appeared to be the right thing back then, but it clearly wasn't. And I think a lot of us feel that way today.

BALDWIN: Jonathan, let me just go back to you as we are hours away from this event in South Carolina and this is the first time we have seen, you know, President George W. Bush publicly in years.

Will we see the folksy Texan, you know, bear-hugging his brother and saying this should be the next commander in chief, or do we see a tough-talking, Donald Trump, you're going down, kind of guy?

MARTIN: Oh, I would be stunned if he went after Donald Trump very aggressively.

I think you will see at best a kind of an oblique attack against Donald Trump. George W. Bush is somebody who cares about the institution of the presidency, which I think is part of the reason he has been so quiet for the last decade. It's partly because he was so unpopular when he left, but it's also in part because he wants to respect the institution and needs to let president sort of command the stage.

But, Brooke, you raise an important point. I was thinking about this. This is really the first time in 10 years that we have seen President Bush on the campaign trail, because, if you recall, he was so unpopular in '08. And then the economy collapses in September of '08, and there was no way obviously at that point he was going on the campaign.

The last time you really saw him out there was the '06 midterms, 10 years ago. So it is a long time back.

BALDWIN: Stay with me, all of you. We have to get a quick break in.

In case you have blinked, what you have missed in the last hour is essentially Donald Trump coming out forcefully calling Ted Cruz a basket case, the biggest liar he's ever met, unstable, questioning his faith yet again. And he is saying essentially to the Texas senator, listen, you need to apologize, or else I will sue.

Quick break. We're right back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)