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CNN NEWSROOM

Post-Town Hall Look at Democratic Presidential Candidates. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired January 26, 2016 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[00:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.

VAN JONES, FORMER OBAMA ADMIN OFFICIAL: It creates heartburn. It does.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And that advantage and I'm sorry to monopolize this, but advantage on the point because once you leave ...

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: Oh, whatever. Once you leave Iowa and you leave New Hampshire, people in the south, when we get to these other primaries, we want to build on and protect the legacy of Barack Obama. So, she's hitting those notes. And I think that's going to carry her a little further.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Standby everyone, standby everyone, because this is the top of the hour and I have to tell everyone what we're doing here.

You just heard Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley just a short time ago make their closing arguments at CNN's town hall in Des Moines.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. It's midnight here on the East Coast and we are just one week away from the first vote in the nation at the Iowa caucuses.

Can Hillary Clinton energize her campaign? Will Bernie Sanders, his improbable rise, take him to the top? And who's the best candidate to go against the GOP? We're going to continue to talk about our discussion here.

Let's show this new CNN/ORC poll. It shows Clinton leading the democratic race nationwide with 52 percent to Sanders' 38 percent.

Continuing our conversation now, Peter Beinart, also Van Jones, Gloria Borger, Michael Smerconish, Donna Brazile, and Bakari Sellers. It highlights how important Iowa was, you know, in all of this when you look at the polls, you look at what happened.

Also, what we - we didn't talk much about the Republicans. We haven't mention -- have we mentioned Trump once?

DONNA BRAZILE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thank God.

LEMON: Its midnight and we haven't mentioned him in an hour.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we haven't mentioned O'Malley.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

JONES: I've got a few on that. I've got something nice to say about Martin O'Malley.

BRAZILE: Well, first of all ...

LEMON: We did talk about O'Malley. You said -- I said that you -- you said he was going to bring it. And you said, well, he showed up. No, you said he was present.

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: He did do very well today. I mean, he's going before the firebrand surge. 74-year-old devout socialist who's a revolutionary and Hillary Clinton who's a steward of the part and that was difficult.

BRAZILE: And he said, "Let's not talk about process, let's talk about people." And I think in his response to many of the questions, he tried to bring it back to the people. The people in Iowa and then he tried to bring it back to his own message in terms of delivering, as -- come on. I'm being generous.

(CROSSTALK)

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR, SMERCONISH: You know you're on T.V., right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

BRAZILE: I'm going to be catty. He just -- he tries too hard to be transformative.

LEMON: I saw a tweet from a reporter at "The New York Times" that says, "Why does he always look like a stock photograph of someone running for president?" He's like the Getty image ...

(CROSSTALK)

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: A candidates rise and fall in large measure on whether their messages capture something in the country. Bernie Sanders is doing well not because of his aesthetics but because at this particular moment in the Democratic Party anger at Wall Street and the fact that even a Democratic president hasn't been able to rein them in has a lot of currency.

Martin O'Malley has just never found an issue, a message that really resonates with Democrats ... LEMON: He wins the aesthetic argument. Definitely.

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: He did talk about climate change. He did talk about it from the point of view of jobs. He pointed out that 39 percent of Iowa is being powered by clean energy right now.

LEMON: He mentioned Black Lives Matter.

JONES: He did mentioned Black Lives Matter. He hit ...

SMERCONISH: I thought that was his strongest response of the night.

JONES: And I think ...

SMERCONISH: It's a lot of practice on that issue but ...

JONES: Fair enough. But listen, I think that there are some issues that are out there when you talk about reproductive health for women, whether you're talking about clean energy and climate, that are really powerful issues for the base.

BRAZILE: Right.

JONES: And he tried to deal with that. And I think he gets some credit for that.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: But you know, he was trying to make at the outset of this campaign the generational argument that he was a generation maybe younger than certainly Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, and that he was going to be the change candidate.

Well, it turns out that the 74-year-old happens to be the change candidate in the Democratic Party. Who would have thought that? And he kind of lost his mojo on that. And also, after the violence in Baltimore erupted, he's been the mayor of Baltimore. He'd been the governor of Maryland. I think that kind of was a huge speed bump.

SELLERS: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: One thing that Martin O'Malley does come into this race with is he has a glaring progressive record a track record back in Baltimore and back in Maryland. I'm not sure there's been any -- there have been very few governors that have implemented as many progressive policies in their state as Martin O'Malley. Minus criminal justice reform and some of the things he did in Baltimore and when you saw the city explode ...

LEMON: I was surprised he actually brought unlike -- where's he going with this?

SELLERS: That young lady was a bad young lady. (CROSSTALK)

SELLER: As we say, Don, she threw some shade.

LEMON: Yeah, he did.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: A lot of the students were -- I mean ...

BRAZILE: He's on the stage. He's still on the stage. He's still competing for votes. And there are still a lot -- I want to go back to the earlier point, there are still a lot of undecided people out there. So, O'Malley might catch fire.

(CROSSTALK)

SMERCONISH: He did not -- he did not answer Chris' question. I don't think it came from the audience relative to the 15 percent.

[00:05:01] If you don't meet that threshold, where would you like your vote to go?

(CROSSTALK)

BEINART: Martin O'Malley is not only looking at 2016.

SELLER: Is that really an answer? I guess it is.

BRAZILE: No.

BEINART: Martin O'Malley's looking at 2020. He's looking at whether this race puts him in a position to be in the top tier the next time around.

LEMON: Let's talk about 2016 right now. And were talking about because President Obama sort of gave this tacit endorsement of, you know, Hillary Clinton today. Half a hug to "Politico". Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think Bernie came in with the luxury of being a complete long shot, right. And just letting loose. I think Hillary came in with the both privilege and burden of being perceived as the front-runner.

As I've said before, I think that like any candidate her strengths can be her weaknesses. Her strengths, which are the fact that she's extraordinarily experienced and, you know, wicked smart and knows every policy inside and out sometimes could make her more cautious and campaign more in prose than in poetry, but those are also her strengths. It means that she can govern and she can start here day one, more experienced than any non-vice president has ever been who aspires to this office.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Gloria, what was that? Was that kind of an endorsement? Was it a hug? What was it just fake? Was what it?

BORGER: It was a half hug

LEMON: It wasn't a Chris Christie hug.

BORGER: Exactly. It was not. But it was interesting to hear Obama talk about the problems of the front-runner and talk about Hillary Clinton very differently from the way we heard him talk about her when he first ran against her, it was kind of out of body. But you could see that he clearly understands that he needs her to win, as I was saying before, and that his legacy really depends on her.

Because Bernie Sanders has said that he doesn't like ObamaCare, he would dismantle it for single payer or would at least try to. I don't think he could possibly get that through any Congress. But this is what he's talked about. And I think this is a president who understands where his legacy lies. And he likes her.

LEMON: That you're an independent.

SMERCONISH: Yes. Absolutely.

LEMON: So as an independent how did that read to you in did that read to you as an endorsement?

SMERCONISH: It read to me as him wanting to help her over the finish line in Iowa. That's it.

LEMON: All right -- go ahead, Donna.

BRAZILE: No. True. But, you know, this is something I know. He respects her. He really respects her opinion. He values ...

LEMON: And she'll tell you because she made, you know, he made her secretary of state.

BRAZILE: ... yeah.

BORGER: Right.

BRAZILE: But he values her opinion. He respects her. And I know we go back to this whole issue of whether she's going to be -- I listen to these young men. OK. But I'm going to say this, baby. OK. I

SELLERS: Go on.

BRAZILE: She doesn't need to put Obama behind her name. This woman has walked the walk. She has been in the fire. OK. I know Bernie too. He's been out there in the fire. In fact, Bernie has built some fires. But Hillary doesn't need to have a man to make her great. She is outstanding in her own right, whether you like it or not.

LEMON: Yeah. Let's listen. Are you done? Because you're -- are you done?

BRAZILE: I guess you have to say that.

JONES: Are we going to go to commercial?

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: I can't wait to this

BRAZILE: And the president just said that we have to change her name or add it. She has her own, you know.

LEMON: We'll take wagers in the break on what -- how soon that ends up in an ad something. Let's listen to her responding to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was really touched and gratified when I saw that. You know, people here in Iowa remember, we ran a really hard race against each other. And then I had the opportunity when he asked me to serve as his secretary of state. And it not only was a great working relationship. It turned into a real friendship.

And he knows how hard the job is. And he knows it firsthand. So I really appreciated what he said and how he said it because it was a positive reflection on what we have to get done and how hard it's going to be. And therefore the stakes in the election are really high. And I think that's what voters are beginning to really tune into starting here in Iowa.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: He says also in there you get undue criticism, and he says, and by the way, I have some regrets about my campaign and some of the things we did. Was that surprising?

CLINTON: Yes. That was surprising.

[00:10:00] You know, I really appreciated him saying that because he'd said that -- he had that great line, which I love. I think he said something like, "you know, she had to do" -- he said I was like quite staring, she had to do everything I had to do only she was Ginger Rogers doing it backwards in high heels. And I thought that was a really a very sweet remark.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So Donna, you know, I will give you that. She is an accomplished woman. And any accomplished woman they don't need to put a guy's name behind there. So, I will give you that. But, what do you think of that? You said that there's a lot of blood on the table up there.

BRAZILE: Well, no, I'm saying that 2008 for those of us who were actively involved. Were you born there? I'm joking.

You know, the latest as what after we get to the midnight hour, you know that's a whole different Donna that's going to show up. So, here's the thing. There was a lot of blood on the table. We know it was blood ...

LEMON: On the floor, everywhere. Yeah.

BRAZILE: ... and the fight didn't end until June 4th. I mean, when she announced. And then we had to go through the convention and try getting those two camps together. I was in the middle of some of those battles. ...

BORGER: I think there are still problems.

LEMON: It's still truce.

BORGER: President Obama not too long ago criticized Hillary Clinton and said, "You know, it's different when you're running for president than when you're serving as president", when she called for no-fly zones in Syria.

BRAZILE: Yeah.

BORGER: And at his press conference, he kind of gave her a little twist of the knife there and said, "You know, it's a little different." So, let her say without naming her specifically.

So, it's not as if they agree on everything. But again, I think he did what he felt he had to do. And I do think he genuinely respects her.

JONES: This was important for the establishment of the party to come together, this was important.

And I think at an emotional level, you saw ...

LEMON: OK.

JONES: ... something in Hillary Clinton when she was talking about it that was important personally. It was important politically.

But, if you're not part of the establishment, it just looks like the establishment closing ranks ...

LEMON: I've got to get to a break if you can do it quickly, Peter.

BEINART: I think what you're seeing is the Democratic Party is much more united than Republican Party. It's a fundamental difference between these two parties right now, and it's a source of strength for Democrats. They don't hate each other in the way the Republicans right now do.

BRAZILE: True. True.

BEINART: But, yeah, yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But it is -- yes?

BORGER: The Democrats are acting like Republicans and the Republicans are acting like a bunch of Democrats fighting all the time.

LEMON: Stay with me, everyone. When we come right back, the man looming over this race. Guess who?

JONES: Obama.

LEMON: Donald Trump, Donald Trump.

BRAZILE: Donald Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:16:22] LEMON: We've been talking about the CNN Democratic Town Hall tonight, but we've also got news on the Republican side to share with you.

Donald Trump sat down with our very own Wolf Blitzer today and he took on his rivals, and he took another shot at Fox News' Megyn Kelly. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Before Iowa there's a republican debate Thursday night. Fox is hosting that debate. You and Megyn Kelly have had issues. She's one of the moderators. Are you going to be at that Fox debate?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE Well, probably, I mean, I don't like her. She doesn't treat me fairly. I'm not a big fan of hers at all. I don't care. I mean, she was -- she probably was -- I might be the best thing that ever happened to her. I don't know.

Whoever even heard of her before the last debate? But, I thought she was very unfair in the last debate. A lot of the people said I won that debate. Everybody said I won the last debate. But, I'm not a fan of Megyn Kelly. I don't like her. She probably doesn't like me. And that's OK.

But, she'd better be fair. I'd like to go to the debate. I enjoy the debates. I've done well in the debates. Every single poll has said I've won every debate. But, we're going to see what happens. It's going to be exciting.

BLITZER: When you say probably, you haven't 100 percent decided you will be ...

TRUMP: No. Not into 100 percent.

BLITZER: Why not?

TRUMP: I just said I'm not 100 percent. I'll see. If I think I'm going to be treated unfairly, I'll do something else. But, I don't think she can treat me fairly, actually. I think she's very biased and I don't think she can treat me fairly. But, that doesn't mean I don't do the debate. I like doing the debates.

I've won every single debate according to every poll. I've won every single debate. I think the debates have been good. You know, after the last debate I went up 11 points in the polls. I went up 11 points right after the debate.

The poll came out. I went up 11 points because of the debate. So, I want to do the debates. They're good for me. But, I don't think she can treat me fairly and I'm not a big fan of hers. Maybe I know too much about her.

BLITZER: You and I have been doing interviews for at least a decade. You've changed your position on some issues. But on certain national security issues you've been remarkably consistent.

TRUMP: It's true.

BLITZER: And I want to get specific with you. On what you would do if you were elected president. This is October 2008. This is what you said about Iraq.

TRUMP: Hey, look, it wasn't Saddam Hussein that attacked the World Trade Center. OK? In fact, those people when they sent their families back, most of them went back to Saudi Arabia.

It wasn't Saddam Hussein that took down the World Trade Center. And in fact, Saddam Hussein killed the terrorists. They had very few terrorists because he didn't want terrorists in Iraq and he killed terrorists.

So we go and attack Saddam Hussein. Now, Iraq now is the number one breeding ground for terrorists. All the terrorists go to Iraq to learn their trade. You know we all have trades, right? And they go to Iraq.

But, you didn't have that when Saddam Hussein was running Iraq with an iron fist. Now you do. Now, we took out Saddam Hussein. What have we created? A mess and the day we leave Iraq, it's going to be forget it.

And there's that one word in that that I would change not even a word. And I also said, if you went on or I said to other people at the time, that Iran will take over Iraq. And sure -- and look what's going to happen? Just like you're sitting there, Iran will take over Iraq.

BLITZER: Well, Iran's influence in Iraq has grown inordinately.

TRUMP: It's not influence. They're going to take it over just the course of time. Don't just take it over. They're taking over ...

BLITZER: And so what would you do ...

TRUMP: We gave him $150 billion ...

BLITZER: If you were president on January 20th, 2017, you're sworn in as president. What would you do to, A, stop ISIS and, B, prevent let's say Iran from taking over Iraq?

TRUMP: Well, the one thing I would have done a long time ago is take the oil. And we still don't do it properly. But, I would have taken the oil.

And when we left, we shouldn't have been in Iraq and I said, "Don't go into Iraq and don't go in, you're going to destabilize the whole Middle East."

[00:20:01] Another thing I said that if you go on, "You're going to totally destabilize the Middle East and Iran is going to take over."

OK, now we're end because of stupid decisions, we're in and they didn't knock down the World Trade Center by the way, OK. They had nothing to do with knocking down the World Trade Center. So, we're in Iraq. We spent $2 trillion, thousands of lives, wounded warriors all over the place. And now, Iran has taken it over. I would take the oil, but I would have taken the oil when we left.

As bad as it was, we shouldn't have been there, I would have taken the oil when we left because we just left a shell. These aren't politicians. These are corrupt officials running Iraq. These are totally corrupt people.

And Iran essentially is right now controlling Iraq.

If you look over history, they would fight, but they were equal. They want to fight. Nobody would move. They would fight for years and years. Because there was -- we decapitated. We decapitated their military, and now Iran goes in and ...

BLITZER: Wow aggressive would you be in trying to destroy?

TRUMP: I don't want to tell you. You know why? because, we want to be unpredictable. We need unpredictability in this country. You know, you're asking a question like that.

I know it's politically never good to say I don't want to tell you. But I have a good chance of winning. I don't want the enemies and even our allies to know exactly what I'm thinking.

We've got to be poker players. We've got to be chess players. You know what we are. We're checker players, and we don't play well. And part of the reason is we always tell everything.

Like Obama goes and he's got 50 people that he's sending over. Why does he have to make an announcement he's sending 50 people, he's sending 50 soldiers, our finest over there to Iraq and to Syria?

Why does he have to say that? Why does he ha to announce it? Why couldn't he just let them go?

BLITZER: Will you use ground force ...

TRUMP: Excuse me. Now, they have a target on their back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Van Jones, Peter Beinart, Gloria Borger, Michael Smerconish, Donna Brazile and Bakari Sellers.

Where do we start? Let's start with Megyn Kelly. I don't like here. Other than that. No, you guys guess.

SELLERS: You're quoting Donald Trump.

LEMON: That's what he said. I'm quoting Donald Trump. When he said that, I was getting to that. When he said that, you guys gasped. Why?

BRAZILE: Because she's a reporter. And more than that, she's a respected journalist. I don't watch her often because that conflicts with me watching Anderson.

LEMON: Preach.

BRAZILE: OK. But she's a reporter. She's a moderator. She is a professional. And whether you like her or dislike her, Don, you just don't telegraph that, you know. I think it's very unprofessional.

JONES: He's like a cry baby. You're going to - I'm going to take on ISIS. But I don't like Megyn being mean to me, mommy. It's like - are you a tough guy or you not?

SELLERS: Well, what happened to any decorum in the political process? I mean, there is a way that you address women in general. And he has just debunked any form of respectability that's out there.

I mean, my mother would not let me talk to another woman like that no matter what she was saying about me or who she worked for.

LEMON: But is there a method to - I'm just ...

SMERCONISH: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Nobody is floating on television now that we're back from the sought here, what we were all just agreeing, which is OK that she's just not into him. And he's got a reaction that is high schoolish.

I was waiting for one of you to say it.

LEMON: OK. But is there a method to his madness? He's setting it up.

SMERCONISH: I want to address that because ...

BORGER: ... too much about her...

SMERCONISH: I didn't give him credit for many, many months. He has a great ear. Maybe not with regard to Megyn Kelly. But he's very attuned. He tries out the lines. He goes back to the well. There's a method to his madness. He knows what he's doing. I used to think it was all buffoonery. But he plays the game very well.

LEMON: He's setting up for the audience, for people to tune in, because there's this animosity between the two.

BORGER: ... because she asked him a tough question, which I bet she will because she's a good journalist. If she asks him a tough question, then he can say, well, that's just Megyn Kelly, who doesn't like me. Right. I mean ...

BEINART: When you saw that political instinct was actually in the second half of the answer when he talked about the Iraq war.

And this is what Donald Trump's strength is. He is kind of liberated from some of the Republican Party talking points that most Americans don't believe anymore.

So, he's actually willing to go out there and say, "You know what? The Iraq war was a mistake. We should have kept Saddam Hussein in power." Right?

That's what a lot of Americans think, even a lot of Republicans think. But it's not the mainstream Republican line. And it's that independence that is part of the reason he's doing well.

LEMON: He was right on the war, and then, he talks about Iran. But he wants to bomb the oil fields.

BEINHART: That's right.

JONES: Basically that's something, he actually sounds like Nixon on this.

LEMON: You're giving him a whole lot of credit.

JONES: No, listen, what Nixon said in '68, I have a secret plan to end the war. I won't tell you what it is because if I tell you what it is, then they'll know. Our plan, but trust me, I've got a secret plan.

SMERCONISH: And he didn't have.

JONES: And the same thing here just right now, you have Donald Trump saying, "I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to do something."

This guy is Nixon on some sort of bizarre meth and d that's what you're seeing now.

[00:25:04] BORGER: But you know what, when it gets down to one on one, it is meth ...

LEMON: Did you say mess or meth?

JONES: Meth.

BORGER: If it gets down to one on one and it's Trump versus whomever in the Republican primaries, he's going to get called out, as he has been -- it hasn't stuck yet -- but for not being a conservative for his plan. You know, right now with a very large field, you can get away with a lot of stuff.

Cruz is starting, Jeb Bush tried, failed. Lindsey Graham tried, failed. Rick Perry tried, failed. You know, you name it.

And Cruz is trying and failing to a degree. But there's a certain point when he says I have a secret plan, the voters, Republican voters are kind of say that's not ...

LEMON: But when you say he's going to get called out on not being conservative enough. Because here's the dinner conversation in New York City, right, at least in the circles.

They say, he's not a real Republican, he doesn't believe what he's saying, he just wants to win and I may just vote for him on that premise.

BORGER: Well, they say that because he's had positions all over the place. And then, he compares himself to Ronald Reagan and said, "Well." So did Ronald Reagan have positions all over the place.

BRAZILE: But he's not a conventional politician. He doesn't have a record in public office. He doesn't care what other people think about him. The voters who like him, they like him because of the enemies that he's made. That's why Donald Trump is doing so well.

LEMON: Hillary Clinton was asked about Donald Trump at the town hall. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Secretary Clinton. America today is formed by a very diverse group of people. And with the current rise in Islamophobia and the Black Lives Matter Movement, how can they make sure that United States today is - that you protect the constitutional rights of all groups of people without marginalizing any one community, specifically as a mother of three young children as an American-Muslim, how can I make sure that this country is the best place on earth to raise my family? Thank you.

CLINTON: Thank you. Thank you for your service in the military.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's my pleasure.

CLINTON: And one of the most distressing aspects of this campaign has been the language of Republican candidates, particularly their front- runner, that insults, demeans, denigrates different people. He has cast a wide net. He started with Mexicans. He's currently on Muslims.

But I found it particularly harmful the way that he has talked about Muslims, American-Muslims and Muslims around the world. And I've called him out continuously about that.

It's not only shameful and contrary to our values to say that people of a certain religion should never come to this country or to claim that there are no real people of the Muslim faith who share our values and to have the kind of dismissive and insulting approach.

It's not only shameful and offensive, which it is. I think it's dangerous. And it's dangerous in several ways. It's dangerous because American-Muslims deserve better.

And now, their children and they, are the target of Islamophobia, of threats. I've met a number of parents who have said their children are afraid to go to school because they are worried about how they will be treated. And we cannot tolerate this.

And we must stand up and say every person in this country deserves to be treated with respect. And we must stand up against the bullying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, by all accounts, it was a good answer?

BEINART: Good answer.

SELLERS: But there's something I want to talk about in the visuals and the imagery because I thought the answer was good.

But I thought that the young lady asking the question was even more important. You had a Muslim-American veteran of our military who decided she was going to go out and fight for our freedom and then come back home to a country where you hear Donald Trump, yelling and screaming and saying kick them out, talking about raising her children.

And even more importantly, if you juxtapose that against the images we saw from Donald Trump's rally this week where you had Muslim-Americans being escorted out, forcibly escorted out.

And here, you have a young lady who was actually able to ask about her children's future to the former secretary of state of the United States.

That in itself encapsulates the difference in the decorum and the tenor of the two parties.

[00:30:03] And that is why I'm betting on America and I would bet on a Democratic Party to be number 45.

LEMON: Let me get to the independents. What do you make of that moment?

SMERCONISH: I thought that was arguably her strongest response of the night.

SELLERS: Yup.

SMERCONISH: And I think that maybe in the short term it doesn't do much to help or hurt Trump but in the long term I think to your point among independents that's the sort of a response that I think decides an election. BEINART: It shows how dramatically things have changed. By only back in 2000, not that long ago, that George W. Bush was actually campaigning for the Muslim vote, criticizing the Clinton administration for the way it was treating Muslims when they were trying to come to the United States.

We have seen this dramatic shift in which the Democratic Party has become the party of Mexican immigrants and the party of the rights of American-Muslims. And this is going to shift the -- this is going to define the parties I think for elections to come, and it's going to hurt Republicans because those population groups are growing in the United States ...

BORGER: Right.

BEINHART: ... and younger voters support their equal rights.

LEMON: Is it fair, Gloria, to say that the Republican -- bulk of the Republican Party and even most of the candidates have denounced this sort of language?

BORGER: Yes, they have. Yes, they have.

UNIDENTIFED SPEAKERS: No.

SELLERS: Very tepidly.

JONES: Very tepid at best.

BORGER: They have no -- you have no they've come out and said that Donald Trump is wrong.

BRAZILE: Paul Ryan.

BOERGER: Paul Ryan, the speaker of the house ...

JONES: Don, here's the reality. I have a friend. Her name is Nancy Lublin. She runs something called The Crisis Text Line. It's where teenagers basically text in if they want to kill themselves.

She said she has seen a dramatic jump in the number of Muslim-American teenagers that have -- are really thinking about taking their own -- these are American kids thinking about taking their lives because of the tone and tenor.

If the GOP were out there denouncing this, those kids would feel differently. They don't feel differently.

LEMON: She said tonight that she's -- kids who don't want to go to school, she referenced some of the same things that -- I want to play this in (inaudible). It's just like -- more from Donald Trump's interview with Wolf Blitzer when he talks about his plan to defeat ISIS. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Would you use ground forces to destroy ISIS?

TRUMP: I will tell you, I will destroy ISIS. I will destroy ISIS. Do you know how bad it is for me to say that? Wouldn't it be nice if we could surprise them? General George Patton didn't say he doesn't and, you know, Wolf Blitzer, would you use ground force? Yes, I would use. No, I wouldn't use.

Element of surprise. You have to have some, you know, some unpredictable. We are so predictable. You have to have -- you have to be unpredictable a little bit.

When Obama announced that he was leaving, OK? He gave us his definite day. When he said we're leaving Iraq. We shouldn't have been there. But he should have never announced a date certain when we were leaving. We're totally predictable as a nation.

Now, bottom line? I will do a number on ISIS like you wouldn't believe. But, I don't want to sit here and tell you every single thing I want to do. You know, at some point we're warriors, right?

At some point you have to surprise the enemy. I mean, I watch these guys like Lindsey Graham, who's just not a smart person. He says, "We have to go here with this number of people and we have to attack them from this level and this level." Wouldn't be nice if we could surprise them and knock the hell out of them?

BLITZER: Another interview we did on September 24th, 2007, right here. You said this about America's standing in the world at the time.

TRUMP: Well, just look at this country. We've gone from this tremendous power that was respected all over the world to somewhat of a laughing stock. And all of a sudden people are talking about China and India and other places, even from an economic standpoint. America's come down a long way, a long way. The United States has come down a long way and it's very, very sad. We're not respected.

That was the beginning of China -- well, and that was the beginning of China. That was the beginning of India when the India -- by the way, India's doing great. Nobody talks about it. And I have big jobs going up in India. But, India is doing great.

But, that was the beginning of China. That was the beginning of India. Look at everything I told you. Everything I told you is all right, whether it's Iraq, whether it's Iran, whether it's China, whether it's India, whether it's Japan.

BLITZER: President George W. Bush, he was in office ...

TRUMP: Right.

BLITZER: ... in 2007 when you said this.

TRUMP: Absolutely. I'm no fan. I've never been a fan of Bush.

BLITZER: But who's more responsible for the weakening of America internationally? Would it be President Bush or President Obama because you've been very critical of both?

TRUMP: I think Bush did a bad job and I think Obama carried it out. He continued to do a bad job.

BLITZER: Who do you blame more?

TRUMP: I would say that it's pretty equal. I would say that Obama has been very, very weak. It could have been stemmed at the beginning of his administration. What he didn't do is he didn't stop Obama.

The devaluation of the Chinese currency has absolutely destroyed us. It's killed us. They have created one of the great thefts of all time. They have stripped our country of jobs, of money, of factories.

You look at the number of factories that have closed. And I'm not only talking about China, I'm talking about other countries too.

[00:35:00] Look at Mexico, what they're doing to us? It's unbelievable. That's a mini version of China. And Obama allowed them to get away with it now for almost eight years.

BLITZER: If you were elected president, would you move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem?

TRUMP: I would. I would, yes.

BLITZER: How quickly would you do that?

TRUMP: I'd do it fairly quickly. I have a lot of friends in that world. You know, I was at the Israeli day parade in 2004. I was the grand marshal walking up Fifth Avenue. And I have great relationships to Israel.

And by the way, the worst thing that's ever happened to Israel is Barack Obama. And especially with respect to this horrible deal that we just made with Iran. This is the worst thing that's happened to Israel.

I do not know -- and I tell my Jewish friends, how do you support this guy? He's a disaster for Israel. And most of them don't know. They say, "We don't know." It's almost like it's a habit.

BLITZER: Back in 2008 when we spoke, you called Sarah Palin, who's now endorsed you, who are "very impressive" and you said you would trust her with the economy.

TRUMP: I would trust her, yes.

BLITZER: To deal with this economic crisis, the enormity or something that we haven't seen some says since the great depression?

TRUMP: Well, look at what other people have been doing and they had a lot of experience and they're the ones that got us into this mess. Maybe you need less experience.

Well, that was when she was chosen as the vice presidential nominee by John McCain. And I backed John McCain 100 percent. He was, you know, having an uphill battle because he was sort of like what happened?

The last year of Bush was a disaster. And John McCain was having a hard time. And yes, I always liked Sarah Palin. I respected her. I loved her loyalty even her loyalty to me.

Look at the beautiful loyalty to me. She went out the other day and backed me in front of thousands of people. We had a packed arena at Oral Roberts University and it was packed. Bernie, by the way, does not get crowds ...

BLITZER: You get very big crowds. There's no doubt about that.

TRUMP: And Bernie is second. I will say ...

BLITZER: He gets big crowds, too.

TRUMP: But, it's nowhere near ...

BLITZER: Would you consider Sarah Palin for your cabinet?

TRUMP: I don't want to even talk about it now. She, you know, the nice part, she didn't ask. She called me up. She said, "I love what you've done, you've created a movement, you're going to win, I would love to endorse you."

And I was a little bit surprised because I thought she might endorse -- she's endorsed Cruz in the past. In fact, without her endorsement he wouldn't have won for the senate in Texas. So I was really impressed that she did that. But she never asked for a thing.

BLITZER: Did you see Tina Fey ...

TRUMP: I did.

BLITZER: ... reprising Sarah Palin, "Saturday Night Live?"

TRUMP: I did. It was very cute.

BLITZER: And Darrell Hammond plays you. What do you think of him?

TRUMP: Well, I think Darrell was great.

BLITZER: He does a pretty good job.

TRUMP: He's just very great.

BLITZER: He's a very funny you've got to admit.

TRUMP: He's very good.

BLITZER: One final question. A lot of buzz that you slept in a Holiday Inn Express the other ...

TRUMP: I did. I did two nights, actually. I said one night it was actually two nights. I thought it was terrific. It was clean. It was nice. And the bed was good. That's all I need. You know. I don't need Mar-A-Lago.

I want to win. I want to make our country great. I want to devote my energy, whatever this ability that I've had over the years for making things really good and doing well. That's why when I put in my statements, my financial statements -- I'm a private company.

People couldn't believe how successful I am. More successful than they even thought. I built a great company, some of the greatest assets in the world. And I say that only in that that's the kind of thinking this country needs.

We have people that are incompetent running our country. We can't have it anymore. We're not going to have a country left. We're going to do something great. We're going to make America great again.

BLITZER: Mr. Trump thanks very much for joining us.

TRUMP: Thank you very much. Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: My panel responds to the Trump-Wolf Blitzer interview right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:42:11] LEMON: All right back now with reaction from my panel on the Donald Trump interview and Wolf Blitzer. You paid more attention to it than the rest of us because we were all discussing everything here but. What did you make -- he stayed in a Holiday Inn and he liked it.

SMERCONISH: And it was clean.

LEMON: And it was clean.

SMERCONISH: And the bed well yet there was a good bed.

BRAZILE: He went to a church found scripture and he liked it.

SELLERS: He took 2 Corinthians.

SMERCONISH: One of the questions that we all wonder about this guy is whether -- I wonder is whether there could actually be underreporting in the polls for Donald Trump because it's politically ...

LEMON: I've been saying that.

SMERCONISH: ... in correct. I've been saying it for a while as well because it's politically incorrect especially to tell to stranger I'm for this guy and it just it's sort of a Bradley factor in reverse it makes me wonder.

LEMON: Did we talk about that on television? SMERCONISH: We have, yeah.

LEMON: Because I always say it comes with this. People walking they say "Hey you, you're Don Lemon right? Yeah. I saw your interview with Donald Trump. Right? They look over their shoulder and they go, you know, I like that guy. I don't agree with everything he says but I like the fact he'll say it."

JONES: Here's the problem I'm seeing you go to you're in an airport, you're in a green room. When Trump comes on television, its Liberals, Democrats, doesn't matter, everybody stops and they listen. When Senator Clinton's on television, it's like a commercial's on. People, even Democrats keep talking. There's something going on here that I think Democrats are underestimating.

I'm very, very concerned now. I think that a Donald Trump would be very dangerous in a general election. I think he could go into an Ohio, he might be able to talk to African-Americans in Ohio in a different way. He could cause problems. And I think that Democrats have been underestimating this guy.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Why do you think that's happening? Because as I've been telling you, just my experience, it's unscientific, but I hear Democrats and they don't want to -- I think as you said underestimate him, but realize just how powerful Donald Trump is in this election cycle.

BEINHART: I think it's partly frankly that it's pretty terrifying to think about what it says about America, frankly ...

BRAZILE: Right.

BEINHART: ... to think that he could have this much support. I mean, this is a man who has called for a religious test on who should be admitted into the country and who has a basic disrespect for our Liberal Democratic constitutional order. I mean, there's something strongly authoritarian about his tendencies so, I think part of the problem is people are actually afraid to believe it.

BORGER: Well you know I don't know -- I don't think it's just Democrats who are underestimating him. I think Republicans ...

LEMON: They do -- yeah.

BORGER: ... throughout this entire race underestimated him. And if you recall at the beginning when he started gaining traction Republicans were sort of reluctant at first to take him on because they thought he would just go away. They thought he would implode. And then he kept saying things that they thought would make him implode. And he didn't implode.

LEMON: Yeah.

BORGER: And then they started taking him on and nothing stopped. (CROSSTALK)

LEMON: The thing I'm seeing, though, is that Republicans, he's not an opponent, he's running as a Republican. The worst thing you can do is underestimate your opponent.

[00:45:00] BORGER: Well all the primary ...

LEMON: Yeah. I see that.

BORGER: ... all the guys running against him.

BRAZILE: But, Don, we've been focusing on the movement conservatives and who's the top, you know, movement conservative. We've been talking about the establishment lane and then Donald Trump, who's in his own lane. So I think until we get an opportunity to see Donald Trump versus one member of the establishment ...

BORGER: Right.

BRAZILE: ... and that's 15, then we'll get a better sense of Donald Trump's strength in the electorate, not just with Republicans but in the general election as well.

SELLERS: But the problem with that is it may be too late.

LEMON: Right.

SELLERS: After Donald Trump finishes in Iowa, he finishes in New Hampshire. He comes to the SSC primary. He has this momentum and he has a whole lot of delegates.

JONES: How will Donald Trump do in the south?

SELLERS: Donald Trump is going to do remarkable in the south.

BRAZILE: Oh, yeah.

SELLERS: And the most ...

LEMON: You talked about this on "State of the Union"

BRAZILE: Oh, yeah.

SELLERS: One of the -- Donald Trump has packaged bigotry and xenophobia and he paired that with a lot of fear in this country and has sold it better than anybody has in the history of the United States, of this political structure. I mean, it's amazing. He's going to go and he's going to talk. He uses language that's not even coded. Donald Trump doesn't even use dog whistle politics. I mean, he doesn't ...

SMERCONISH: Everybody can hear it.

SELLERS: Yeah. He doesn't even try to like not offend you.

BRAZILE: So please can I say something nice about Donald Trump? It shows that i go to church every now and then.

SELLERS: I need to go back.

BRAZILE: Yeah. What Donald Trump has captured, because I talked to a lot of people too, he's captured the frustration and anger of ordinary Americans who feel alienated from their government, who believe their politicians have said I'm going to Washington and change things and they are frustrated angry and that look I am getting to the xenophobia and all of that stuff. I'm just saying that these are people who want to be heard. And Donald Trump is their voice.

BEINHART: Yeah. But wait a second. There are a lot of Americans who feel economic anxiety who are turning to Bernie Sanders, right? You can feel that economic insecurity. You can be upset about the country and you can decide who is to blame for that.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Perhaps if Bernie Sanders didn't say he was a socialist they might be drawn to him.

SELLERS: Let me also talks about this. There's a lot of fuel in Donald Trump's sails that come from the bad fact that a lot -- not a lot but there are many Americans who simply don't like the fact that a black man is in the White House. OK? And I have to ...

BRAZILE: You're going all that, you conclude sort out tonight.

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: It's 12:45.

LEMON: Not in California. But go ahead.

SELLERS: But that is a fact. I mean that is a motivating factor. I mean, we can talk about people's hearts, but that -- is that not true?

(CROSSTALK)

BEINHART: The demographic complexion of the country is changing dramatically. So Barack Obama is a symbol for a larger shift.

BRAZILE: I must say this because look. I'm not talking about the xenophobia and -- there's racism in this country, but you cannot paint every Trump supporter ...

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: I agree.

BRAZILE: I am in Trump, I won't go there.

SMERCONISH: We're all going all in, right? Right before we get out of here.

SELLERS: Come join me. I'm in the water. SMERCONISH: In his reaction too. You reap what you saw. And I said that via twitter two weeks ago. Chris Cuomo used it this morning right here with Glenn Beck. This is what you get when party leadership becomes men with microphones.

BORGER: Right.

SMERCONISH: And when the leadership of the GOP has been abdicated to A.M. Talk Radio and cable television presenters, not at this station, these candidates, Cruz and Trump, are a reflection of that leadership. So why should we be surprised when they vault to the top of the polls? Because that's who's left in the GOP.

BORGER: Well, there is a ...

BRAZILE: Amen, amen, amen, amen.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Well there's a vacuum.

LEMON: I think not every Trump supporter's racist. Not every Trump supporter's that you know white guy from the south either.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Look, you know these are ...

SELLERS: Not everybody's supporters of occupy Wall Street.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: These are republicans who are not only fed up with the establishment. They're fed up with the Republican Party.

BRAZILE: Right.

BORGER: They believe the Republican Party has disappointed them at every turn, hasn't done what it said it was going to do and they're looking elsewhere. And they're not looking toward establishment ...

LEMON: I've got to get to a break. Go ahead.

JONES: OK. Look, here's the thing. You're a media guy. I think also Trump is a creation of the media system that we're in. FDR was able to use radio in a different way. JFK used T.V. in a different way. Obama used the internet in a different way.

BRAZILE: Right.

JONES: Trump is a reality T.V. and social media ...

BRAZILE: Yes.

JONES: ... phenomenon. And being rude on reality T.V. gets you more ratings. Being mean on Twitter gets you more followers. He's following the rules of the new system, and nobody else is.

LEMON: We don't have time to get to Sarah Palin and Tina Fey, do we? All right let's -- speak of television, go.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TINA FEY, COMEDIAN: For all you teachers and teamsters. You farmers and charmers. Whether you're a mom or two broke girls or three men and a baby or a rock and roller, holy roller pushing stroller, pro bowler with an abscessed molar.

DARREL HAMMOND, COMEDIAN: She's a firecracker. She's a real pistol.

[00:50:00] She's crazy, isn't she?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: She is the best impression of anyone I have ever see.

SELLERS: I love it.

LEMON: Talk about two people who drive headlines and ratings, those two, together.

SMERCONISH: And votes.

LEMON: And votes, yeah.

JONES: I mean, but listen, I did not think when I actually saw them together that "SNL" could do it any better but "SNL" did it better.

LEMON: You knew that moment was coming because I said, they went and she said, Tina Fey called and said, "Get me those sparkly jacket." I'll be there in five minutes.

We'll be right back after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Takeaway moments. Let's get everybody. I'll start with you, Bakari. What's your takeaway from tonight?

SELLERS: Iowa's important. Iowa's important in this race because of the simple fact that if Bernie Sanders wins Iowa and New Hampshire I think then, game is really on. And it's going to tighten up in South Carolina and other places. But I think that Hillary Clinton did a great job tonight and probably is going to escape Iowa to victory.

LEMON: Yeah.

BRAZILE: If you're a veteran living overseas you can still caucus on Monday night the Democratic Party has made.

SELLERS: Yup, thank you. Get your party leader.

BRAZILE: And we also have satellite locations for seniors and others. So check your inbox.

LEMON: Who separated themselves, Donna?

BRAZILE: There's no question that Hillary Clinton did great, but I also thought that Bernie Sanders did a wonderful job and Martin O'Malley too.

LEMON: Right.

BRAZILE: So I can't take sides. Michael?

SMERCONISH: Performances tonight were good, better, and best. I think we all know who fits into each category. I for one just cannot wait for people to cast ballots on Monday.

[00:55:00] I'm so sick in talking about the polls. And I want to see if the polls hold water for Trump.

LEMON: I've got a minute. Peter, go ahead.

BEINART: For me the takeaway is how strikingly different -- what a different it is inside the Democratic and Republican Party. You didn't get a lot of anger in the Democratic Party, not a lot of fear. These are people who basically think that America is OK and on the right track. Totally different climate than in the Republican Party.

LEMON: Van Jones.

JONES: Hillary Clinton was so strong tonight. There was a whole stretch where Chris Cuomo just disappeared. Chris Cuomo is a huge force, and he just disappeared. That's how strong she was.

SMERCONISH: Don't tell him that.

JONES: But Bernie Sanders showed America why he's surging. And I think he did a great job tonight.

LEMON: Miss Borger, you get the last word.

BORGER: Hillary Clinton knows she's got to win Iowa. It's really important to her because her chances are not so good in New Hampshire. If she wins Iowa she can really blunt Bernie Sanders' momentum. And she came tonight with that understanding. And I think it really showed. He did a good job, but she really was out there saying this is my moment.

JONES: She's going to win it.

BORGER: Yeah.

JONES: Win or go home.

LEMON: Thank you, everyone. I appreciate it. Everyone came to play tonight with all the candidates.

BRAZILE: Three snaps for, Don. LEMON: Thank you.

And a Z formation. Thank you, guys. Or a circle, whatever one you want. I really appreciate it.

That's it for us tonight, I'll see you right back here tomorrow night, 10:00 p.m. Eastern. Make sure you tune in.

And if you missed any of tonight's CNN Iowa Presidential Town Hall you can see the whole thing in just a moment. Good night.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)