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CNN NEWSROOM

Clinton, Sanders Sharpen Attacks, Point Out Differences; Grand Jury Clears Clinic, Indicts Activists; Manhunt Intensifies for California Escapees. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 26, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[09:00:04] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, Democrats drawing contrast.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Experience is important. But judgment is also important.

COSTELLO: Fighting for the White House and the future of the party.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are very different visions, different values, different forces at work.

COSTELLO: But the frontrunner facing skeptics.

TAYLOR GIPPLE, APPLICATION DEVELOPER: Quite a few people my age that they think you're dishonest.

COSTELLO: Plus, Trump unstoppable? That is not coming from the Donald. Try his closest competitor. But Ted Cruz has a brand new tactic.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How stupid are the people of Iowa.

COSTELLO: Use Trump's words against him.

Also backfire, the pro-life activist who made Planned Parenthood sting videos facing criminal charges themselves. One of them accused of purchasing human organs.

Let's talk. Live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

They never actually shared the stage but they sure did trade some jabs. With the Iowa caucuses inching closer, the three Democrats sharpened their attacks on each other and highlighted their differences during last night's CNN town hall.

There were some memorable moments. Here is a summary of the CNN debate. One from Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I'm going to be just giving them all bear hugs, whether they like it or not. We're going to get together. We're going to talk about what we can do. Maybe we can get something done together. If not maybe I can find that slice of common ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. But before the candidates can focus on Republicans, they have to conquer one another.

Here is CNN's Brianna Keilar with more for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We are live.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Less than a week away from the Iowa caucuses.

SANDERS: This calls for a standing-up response.

CUOMO: OK.

KEILAR: The Democratic candidates are out of their chairs.

MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not capable of doing Q&A in Iowa from a seat.

CUOMO: Yes, please.

KEILAR: And throwing soft punches in a final pitch to voters.

SANDERS: Experience is important. But judgment is also important.

KEILAR: Bernie Sanders kicking off CNN's town hall going record-to- record with Hillary Clinton.

SANDERS: I voted against the war in Iraq. Hillary Clinton voted for the war in Iraq. I led the effort against Wall Street deregulation. See where Hillary Clinton was on this issue.

On day one I said the Keystone Pipeline is a dumb idea. Why did it take Hillary Clinton such a long time before she came into opposition?

KEILAR: Clinton says one bad vote on the Iraq war is just a scratch, not a dent.

CLINTON: I have a much longer history than one vote which I have said was a mistake because of the way that that was done and how the Bush administration handled it. But I think the American public has seen me exercising judgment in a lot of other ways.

KEILAR: Former Maryland governor, Martin O'Malley, once again fighting for his place in this race.

O'MALLEY: I am the only one of the three of us who has a track record not of being a divider but of bringing people together to get meaningful things done.

KEILAR: Voters challenging the candidates on key issues.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you planning to ensure racial quality?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you going to fight for women's rights?

KEILAR: The Vermont senator clearing up his stance on gun control.

SANDERS: If a gun shop owner should know, why should somebody be buying a thousand guns? Somebody should be thinking that does not make a lot of sense. In that case that gun shop owner or the gun manufacturer should be held liable.

KEILAR: The former secretary of state leaning on nearly a million miles of travel to prove she's the foreign policy frontrunner.

CLINTON: I flew from Cambodia where I was with the president, to Israel, middle at night, go see the Israeli cabinet. Work with them on what they would accept as an offer. Go see the Palestinian president, work with him to make sure he back it up. Go back to Jerusalem, finalize the deal. Fly to Cairo, meet with President Morsi, the Muslim Brotherhood president of Egypt. Hammer out the agreement.

KEILAR: Clinton not only highlighting her record but defending her character.

GIPPLE: I've heard from quite a few people my age that they think you are dishonest.

CLINTON: I've been on the front lines of change and progress since I was your age. I have been fighting to give kids and women and the -- and the people who are left out and left behind a chance to make the most out of their own lives.

KEILAR: Throughout the night, one message was clear. Dump Trump.

O'MALLEY: We are far better than the sort of fascist rhetoric that you hear spewed out by Donald Trump.

KEILAR: Clinton taking it a step further.

CLINTON: We need a coalition that includes Muslim nations to defeat ISIS. And it is pretty hard to figure out how you're going to make a coalition with the very nations you need if you spend your time insulting their religion.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[09:05:10] COSTELLO: Brianna Keilar reporting for you there. Thanks. As the clock ticks down to caucus day in Iowa, a new CNN-ORC national

poll reveals a majority of Democratic voters back Hillary Clinton. But here's the catch. Clinton is actually down from December while Sanders has picked up four points. It's the tightest the race has been since early September. The poll also finds that women and people over 50 are among Clinton's biggest supporters, while independents and young voters are leaning toward Bernie Sanders.

Perhaps it all boils down to this. Young Democrats still want hope and change and older Democrats want pragmatism.

With me to talk about all of this, CNN Politics executive editor, Mark Preston. He's in Des Moines, Iowa. I'm also joined by Democratic strategists Chris Kofinis and Penny Lee. She's the former executive director for the Democratic Governors Association. She's also the former communications director for Governor Ed Rendell of Pennsylvania.

Welcome to all of you.

CHRIS KOFINIS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here.

So, Mark, first of all, what do you make of these polls?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: Well, listen, national polls are important but they're not as important as what we're seeing here in Iowa right now. All the focus is who can win this state, who can gain the momentum to propel them into New Hampshire. What we're seeing here in Iowa, though, is the polls are tightening up for Bernie Sanders. Extremely important for him and of course troublesome for Hillary Clinton.

Hillary Clinton was hoping to try to knock Bernie Sanders out here in Iowa, go into New Hampshire, Bernie Sanders has a sizeable lead there. Perhaps steal a win from there and try to close this race out. However, what we're seeing here in Iowa is that they are neck-and- neck. And Bernie Sanders, if he were to win here and then go to New Hampshire I think people would look at this race entirely different.

Yes, the national polls are important, but we have to get over these barriers first, or certainly these obstacles over the next few weeks -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And Chris, the town hall, did that change any voters' minds?

KOFINIS: Well, I think what it did was kind of confirmed what people liked about all the candidates. I thought they all did really well. I thought Secretary Clinton was very strong. You know, for voters in Iowa who are looking for experience they're going to vote Hillary. And for voters that are looking for some big bold change, they're going to vote for Sanders. And I'm not sure it fundamentally changed minds. I think the part that actually has raised questions for me is in terms

of maybe changing the dynamics is what President Obama said. He is still incredibly popular in the state. And when you are talking about a race where turnout is going to be everything, especially in something as complex as the Iowa caucuses, you know, that could have been I think a really defining moment.

So I think it's still I think going to be very close but it really is going to come out to who has the better organization and how do those voters make that final calculation. And I think the president may have had a bit of an influence on that.

COSTELLO: We'll see. So, Penny, there were some memorable moments during that town hall. One thing that stood out to me Hillary Clinton was asked if she could work with Republicans given what she said in the past. She said she would give all -- she would give Republicans all bear hugs whether they liked it or not. She claims she would be able to work with the GOP. But you could argue that would be difficult in light of how many hearings the Republicans have held on Benghazi, let's say. About 25 altogether.

PENNY LEE, FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS ASSOCIATION: Well, I think her biggest strength was kind of what she went back to. And that is I'm still standing, I am going to fight every day for your values. And what she showed and went back to is what she did when she was a U.S. senator. And remember this was a body that -- that went through impeachment trials on her own husband. So she showed that she was able to come in and work with the likes of Lindsey Graham and others that were at polar opposite.

And so she went through the litany of the various bills in which she worked with Republicans from both the Senate and the House to show that she actually can come together, that she's willing to put, you know, the anger aside and realizing that the campaign, a lot of this heated rhetoric comes out. But when it comes to governing she's going to be there and she's going to reach across the aisle.

COSTELLO: So, Mark, is that possible?

PRESTON: Sure. I mean, look, anything the possible. You know, what is being said on the campaign trail is entirely different about what's going to happen when someone gets elected president. We can hear all this rhetoric about going to Washington and turning it on its head. But the fact of the matter is we are a divided government. We're a separated government. Congress has just as much power in many ways or more power in some ways than the president of the United States.

So when Hillary Clinton is talking about going to Washington and being a uniter, she probably can if she wants to be. And I think that is a very important thing to say when you are dealing, whether you are a Republican president or a Democratic president, you have to compromise. And I know that's a dirty word certainly for the partisans in a Democratic primary or a Republican primary but you have to compromise and what's being said now is not necessarily what we're going to see no matter who's elected come next year. [09:10:06] COSTELLO: OK. So let's talk about Bernie Sanders now,

Chris, because Bernie Sanders made no bones about it. He said he would raise taxes in order to pay for his single-payer Medicare proposal. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: We will raise taxes. Yes, we will. But also let us be clear, Chris, because there is a little built of disingenuity out there. We may raise taxes. But we are also going to eliminate private health insurance premiums for individuals and for businesses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. So let's look at that, Chris. Number one, both Houses of Congress are controlled by Republicans and they're really not into increases in taxes. And two, is Bernie Sanders forgetting that bitter fight that it took to get Obamacare passed in the first place?

KOFINIS: Well, I mean, listen, trying to get I think something passed in Congress and, you know, if we assume that there's not goings to be any fundamental change in the House or the Senate, it will be extremely difficult to say the least to get any kind of tax increase let alone fundamental healthcare change.

I think that's the reality part of the argument. But what I think Senator Sanders is speaking to and why I think his candidacy has proven so surprising to so many people let's say in Washington who have maybe some times a more jaded perspective is he's really speaking to the economic anxiety that voters feel.

You know, I've seen this in focus groups that have done in Iowa and South Carolina. He has a very powerful message. But there is a profound reality to the way, you know, our politics works and our government works. And if Senator Sanders were to become president, the simple reality is his bold proclamations about, you know, what he wants to accomplish are going to face the reality of a Republican Congress that is not going to allow that to happen. And you've got to figure out how to compromise.

I really think it kind of boils down to what voters especially in the Democratic primary, especially in Iowa and New Hampshire, these early states, really want. Do they want the big visionary even if he may sound romantic but not realistic? Or do they want someone who is pragmatic and experienced and ready to do the job? You know, what you're seeing right now is that voters in Iowa are really struggling with that choice.

COSTELLO: Yes, they are. Chris Kofinis, Mark Preston, Penny Lee, thanks to all of you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a huge turn of events in those undercover videos that targeted Planned Parenthood. Today the accusers are the accused.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [09:16:34] COSTELLO: A legal bombshell in the impassioned debate over Planned Parenthood, and those secretly recorded video. A Texas grand jury has cleared the clinic of illegally selling fetal tissue as the undercover activists had claimed. Instead, the grand jury indicted the filmmakers themselves, and that's igniting a new whole firestorm.

Joe Johns is CNN senior Washington correspondent. He has more for you this morning.

Good morning, Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

Really didn't expect this one. A twist in the continuing story of an antiabortion activist and his group, the center for medical progress in their undercover videos claiming to expose illegal activity by Planned Parenthood.

The grand jury in Harris County, Texas, started out looking at Planned Parenthood but ended upsetting sights on the people making the videos. David Daleiden, the most visible member of the group, and Sandra Merritt, one of its employees both indicted on a felony charge of tampering with a government record, specifically using fake California driver's licenses to get access to Planned Parenthood in the first place.

Planned Parenthood cleared of the allegations that it broke fetal tissue research laws was out this morning on "NEW DAY" essentially saying "told you so."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAWN LAGUENS, EXECUTIVE V.P. PLANNED PARENTHOOD: Now, this grand jury has made clear what we've said for three years. David Daleiden and the Center for Medical progress worked to make a fake company, fake identities, lied, engaged in a criminal conspiracy. And when they couldn't find anything, they made it up. And now, that's out there now for all the world to be clear on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: Those videos really have ignited congressional investigations, political outrage, especially on the right. It continues today. Mike Huckabee tweeting, "A sick day in America when the government punishes those who expose evil with a cell phone yet accommodates those who perform it with a scalpel."

The Center for Medical Progress claimed on its web site that it uses techniques that investigative journalists use and Planned Parenthood made admissions in the video it says about fetal organ sales. Investigations into Planned Parenthood do continue though including one launched by the state of Texas -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Joe Johns, reporting live from Washington -- thank you.

I want to dig a little deeper on this, because it's so unusual.

Mel Robbins is a CNN legal analyst.

Welcome, Mel.

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hey, good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Good -- have you ever heard of something like this happening?

ROBBINS: You know, what I've never really heard of and I don't think what any of us expected is for a grand jury to be investigating Planned Parenthood. I mean that is the really amazing part of this story is that you have a grand jury, Carol, in Houston that was assembled to investigate Planned Parenthood. The district attorney said something that we've heard very often in the last couple of years that we will, quote, "go where the evidence takes us."

And the evidence took this grand jury to realizing that it was these two videographers that did the sting operation that actually had done something illegal.

COSTELLO: Interesting. So, David Daleiden, the director of the Center for Medical Progress, you know, this undercover videographer, he's facing two charges, a misdemeanor for buying human tissue and a felony for tampering with a government document. Are you surprised that he's facing such serious charges?

ROBBINS: Well, I'm surprised frankly that the tampering with the government document is the one that is a felony worth 20 years and that the illegal purchase and sale of human organs is only a misdemeanor.

[09:20:10] I guess, I'm -- I'm not surprised by the charges because what you've got is that you basically have a guy that is trying to bait somebody into doing illegal activity. If I possessed drugs illegally, Carol, I couldn't try to get you to buy them and then go to the police and say, oh, Carol, you should arrest Carol, she's trying to buy drugs. Particularly if you repeatedly said, "I'm not doing it. I'm not doing something illegal. You know, we're not going to profit from this."

So, they were basically trying to set up Planned Parenthood, and what they didn't realize is they were doing something illegal by faking government documents and pretending to be authorities that had the ability to purchase human organs and tissue for research, which is legal if you follow the law, and has been done since the 1930s. But I guess it's the weight of the crimes, Carol, that surprises me.

COSTELLO: Yes, as a journalist, I can't do that. I can't do anything illegal to try to gain information from someone. So, I am barred from that as a journalist.

But I will read you something the Center for Medical Progress released. It released a statement and it pointed out that the purchase of this fetal tissue also requires a seller. So, it's saying Planned Parenthood was willing to buy so why no charges against it.

ROBBINS: Well, I think the reason why there's no charges against Planned Parenthood is because of what Planned Parenthood said all along. They didn't do anything illegal.

If you look as the law, as much as it's uncomfortable to think about the process of getting human tissue during some of these medical procedures. The fact is we have been using fetal tissue in research since the 1930s and if they're not profiting from it, which she said repeatedly on the tape, they're not doing anything illegal.

Will the charges stick? I think it remains to be seen. But it is an absolutely fascinating turn of events where you have these two folks going in for political reasons to try to make Planned Parenthood not only look bad but look like they were doing something illegal. A bunch of presidential hopefuls jumped unto it. There was a big push to defund Planned Parenthood based on all of this.

And now, a grand jury in Texas, which isn't exactly a very friendly state to women's rights in terms of pro-choice rights, they have now indicted these two. And so, now, allow the police to set up sting operations. We do not allow private seasons to pretend that they are officials and to use fake government documents to try to sting people that are doing things that are perfectly legal. And that is exactly what happened in this case.

COSTELLO: All right. Mel Robins, thanks for your insight this morning.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM: he faced major backlash for his New York values attack on Donald Trump. But do you think Ted Cruz is backing off? Think again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, TED CRUZ)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How stupid are the people of Iowa.

AD NARRATOR: Donald Trump, New York values, not ours.

TRUMP: You know, my views are a little bit different than if I live in Iowa.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:27:28] COSTELLO: A major manhunt enters day five in southern California. Authorities offering a $50,000 reward for anyone with information that leads to the capture of the three inmates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. JEFF HALLOCK, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPT.: We're in a position where we absolutely need the public's help. These three are extremely dangerous felons and need to be apprehended and brought back into custody immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN's Paul Vercammen with me now from Santa Ana, California, with more.

Good morning, Paul.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

Still no sign of these three extremely violent offenders who escaped from this jail last Friday. Among other things, it's been that they were able to leave right after the 5:00 in the morning head count, which means they could have left in the dark. There was also a fight staged around 8:00 p.m., the second head count. That distracted the guards and even bought them even more time.

Well, they now think that this is not any kind of inside job. Let's take a listen, Carol.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. DAVID SAWYER, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: As far as I've heard, as far as my knowledge goes there is no employee of the sheriff's department place on any type of administrative leave or taken from their job so far. So far, there is nothing that indicates that we have concrete or specific assistance from anyone inside the jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: And the community on edge. Two of these escaped inmates, a Vietnamese gangbangers. It is believed there is always a chance they could blend into the large Vietnamese community in Orange County.

And the other inmate who escaped is a flight risk and some concern that perhaps he fled to Mexico, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Paul Vercammen, thanks so much.

Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Let's talk politics now, shall we? Donald Trump's grip on the top of the GOP field showing no signs of going away as he hits a new high among Republicans nationwide in the latest CNN/ORC.

Trump is at 41 percent. The first time he's hit that mark in the 2016 campaign. That's more than double the support of his competitor Ted Cruz who comes in at 19 percent. Rubio, Carson and Bush rounding out the top five, but we should note, none of them reaching double digits.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is traveling with the Cruz campaign. She joins me now live from Iowa where both Cruz and Trump have events today.

Good morning, Sunlen.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol.

Well, these are significant numbers for Donald Trump. He leads in younger voters, older voters. Men, women, white evangelicals and conservatives really across the board there nationally. What I thought was most striking from these new numbers is how Trump has really been able to cast himself successfully as the outsider candidate.