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Debate Coach Grades GOP Candidates' Performance at Debate; Cruz Former Debate Teammate/Classmate Talks Debate; More Information on U.S. Sailors Captured by Iran. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired January 15, 2016 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:30:00] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Wow, I'm glad some improvements are being made but seeing you in that interview, just being in the school 40 minutes is startling to see that.

Jean Casarez, thank you very much.

Coming up, my next guest says Ted Cruz got "crushed" by Donald Trump in last night's debate. I'll ask him why.

Plus, Ted Cruz's college classmate and debate partner, what he thinks of how Ted Cruz handled Donald Trump and what he remembers about the Senator's days at Princeton.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, it appears that Ted Cruz/Donald Trump love affair is over. No surprise, right? A fiery exchange at last night's debate bringing an end to the bromance between the two presidential hopefuls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[14:35:02] SEN. TED CRUZ, (R), TEXAS & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not going to use your mother's birth against you.

(LAUGHTER)

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: Because it wouldn't work.

You have a big lawsuit over your head when you're running. Who the hell knows if you can even serve in office?

CRUZ: I'm not taking legal advice from Donald Trump.

TRUMP: You don't have to.

CRUZ: Not a lot of conservatives come out of Manhattan. I'm just saying.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: That was a very insulting statement. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The two no longer holding their punches. But the question now, who came out on top? My next guest says Cruz got crushed.

Todd Graham is a debate coach at Southern Illinois University.

There are some people who disagree with you. Others say Cruz was the one who came out on top. You say Cruz made tactical errors and his biggest mistake was going after New York values, labeling them pro abortion and pro gay marriage. Why do you label this a blunder?

TODD GRAHAM, DEBATE COACH, SOUTHERN ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY: You have to remember a lot of people like to vote on reputation. Ted Cruz has a reputation as a good debater. It didn't carry the debate last night. It was sort of that aloofness. Does anyone else see the irony of someone from Princeton and Harvard talking about values of New Yorkers? Donald Trump did. And what Donald Trump said not only do conservatives, like William F. Buckley, come from New York, but New York values are, by the way, American values. He didn't have to say the phrase American. He reminded us that New York is what got attacked in 9/11 and New York is what we had to rebuild. Donald Trump, he pretty much wiped the smirk off Ted Cruz's face.

BROWN: Others say he was trying to appeal to Iowans with the caucuses 17 days away. One of the reasons Trump came out on top was that he was funny. In all fairness, Cruz got some laughs, too.

Let's play more about the birther issue that he talked about last night. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: Back in September, my friend, Donald, said he had his lawyers look at this from every which way. There was no issue there, there was nothing to this birther issue.

(LAUGHTER)

Since September, the Constitution hasn't changed.

(LAUGHTER)

But the poll numbers have.

TRUMP: Here's the problem. We're running, we're running, he does great. I win, I choose him as my vice presidential candidate and the Democrats sue because --

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: -- we can't take him along for the ride.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: That was one of the more memorable exchanges. As we saw, Cruz's tactic appears to be laugh it off. Do you think he was successfully able to put that issue to rest in the way he handled it in the debate?

GRAHAM: No, Cruz made a rookie debating error because Donald Trump pulled the old, "It's not me, it's them." What Donald Trump said is I believe you, but those evil Democratic, Harvard liberal lawyers, what they will do is bring you to court and they will tie up the Republican Party. So how did Cruz answer that? Cruz answered it by saying, well, you shouldn't believe things because these are being brought up by liberal Harvard professors. Yes, that was Trump's point. You're going to tie up the Republican Party. And Cruz had no answer for that. I thought that was a loser for Cruz.

BROWN: What did you think about Marco Rubio, who really went after Cruz towards the end of the debate? What do you think about that tactic?

GRAHAM: I thought he lit him up like a Christmas tree. He had trouble at the end of the debate because all Rubio did, which was an effective strategy, was point out one flip-flop after another and he pointed out about seven of them about things Cruz was for and now against. And unfortunately for Cruz what it makes him look like is opportunistic and he'll say anything to be president. I thought he had a terrible debate last night.

BROWN: What's interesting about that tactic is Cruz doesn't have enough time to go through each allegation and respond to them.

Todd Graham, thank you so much.

GRAHAM: You're welcome.

BROWN: To look at the other side of this, my next guest knows Cruz's debate skills better than anyone. I want to bring in Ted Cruz's former debate teammate and classmate at Princeton University, Michael Lubetsky, in Toronto.

Thank you for joining me.

MICHAEL LUBETSKY, FORMER DEBATE TEAMMATE & PRINCETON CLASSMATE OF TED CRUZ: Thank you for having me.

BROWN: I know you just saw that segment. I want to get your thoughts on what Todd Graham had to say. What are your thoughts about his criticism that Cruz got crushed last night?

LUBETSKY: I don't agree at all, frankly. I think Ted did well last night. It was funny while watching him I remembered -- I was taken back to when we were back at school together because so much of the way he speaks and communicates is very similar to what made him America's top debater back in 1992.

Let me address the issues that came up. On the issue of New York values, admittedly that was a difficult situation that Ted was put in. I don't think he was entirely expecting the question. And, you know, obviously he -- (CROSSTALK)

[14:40:29] BROWN: How can he not expect the question? He was the one that criticized Trump. He had to have been prepared for that question.

LUBETSKY: I frankly would have thought so, too, but I would think if Ted had been anticipating that question perhaps he could have preempted Donald Trump's response by referring to the conduct and the bravery and heroism shown by New Yorkers following the terrorist attacks of September 11th. What's interesting about Ted's response to that is while Trump was giving his answer, when Trump was looking straight at the camera and talking about the bravery and the heroism of New York on September 11th, what was Ted doing? I think that a lot of other people in that situation had they been standing on that stage would have been embarrassed, ashamed, would have looked away, would have looked at the ground but Ted did not. He kept his focus directly at Donald Trump. He didn't flinch. He didn't blink. And at the crescendo of Donald Trump's speech, Ted burst into applause. He effectively aimed to communicate the message -- obviously, you can decide whether it was successful or not -- but he aimed to communicate the message that Donald Trump's comments about the bravery of New Yorkers was not a response an attack upon Ted Cruz but was a general statement in support and in praise of the people of New York that Ted was able to try to adopt and to make his own. I'm not sure what else Ted could have done many that situation.

BROWN: So let's just move on to talk about how Cruz was in college because you went to school with him. You were on the debate team. Any sort of unique moments from when you were on the team that stick out to you? What was he like back then?

LUBETSKY: In many ways, he's like what he is now. He was very serious, he's very smart. He was very committed and dedicated. He wanted very much to make himself America's top debater and he worked very hard to make that happen, and to develop the skills that we saw in evidence, I think, last night very convincingly.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Go ahead. Go Ahead.

LUBETSKY: A point I wanted to make was something else interesting that came out last night was Ted, when he wants to be, can be very funny. I found it was remarkable that he had the room in stitches several times last night. When we were back at Princeton, when you go to debate tournaments, there were stand up comedy events that happened in between rounds. Ted didn't so many of them later on, but he did those events more often in his first year. And he also at several times do public humorous debates. He could bring the house down. He can be very funny. And it was interesting to see that come out last night because it hasn't in the previous debates, I think.

BROWN: One of the key moments he got everyone laughing is the birther issue and telling Trump the Constitution hasn't changed since you defended me in September. But you remember that he was acutely aware of his citizenship when he was younger.

LUBETSKY: You mean was he aware that the fact that he was born in Canada have a potential implication? Yes, he did. Frankly, I suspect that every American citizen born abroad has the same question. As a child, you learn in your civics class about who was eligible to be president and you ask, well, I'm an American citizen, but I was born abroad, does that apply to me. And Ted, as a child, asked that question. And the conventional wisdom is that an American citizen born abroad is eligible to run. And for various reasons, that's the conventional wisdom. There's been a debate as to whether that's correct or not. And I'll defer that question to American constitutionalist lawyers.

BROWN: I have a feeling that debate will continue.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Go ahead.

LUBETSKY: When Ted was addressing the issue in between the humorous comments, was giving two examples of situations where an American citizen may be born abroad. And what examples did he choose? He chose the example of a child of an American soldier and a child of an American missionary. And he chose those examples because there was historical precedence. But those examples were chosen to resonate with that audience. He didn't talk about the child of a Peace Corps volunteer.

(CROSSTALK)

LUBETSKY: He chooses his examples carefully.

BROWN: He certainly prepared for that question.

Michael Lubetsky, thank you very much. Interesting to hear your perspective.

LUBETSKY: Thank you.

[14:45:08] BROWN: Coming up, on this Friday, new information regarding those U.S. sailors captured by Iran. How they were told to act happy for the cameras. And that's not all. That story up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: CNN has been busy gathering new information on what led to the capture of 10 American sailors in Iranian waters. Those sailors have been free for a few days now after one of them apologized to Iran on camera. And we're now learning that sailor was the man in charge and felt he had no choice but to apologize. A defense official also tells CNN they were told to act happy while the cameras were rolling.

CNN's Barbara Starr is live at the Pentagon with more.

Barbara, what are you learning? [14:50:01] BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Pamela.

We do have some new details about how all this happened. What defense officials are telling CNN is it looks like the sailors made a decision at some point to change their course as they were traveling north up the Persian Gulf. They changed course because they are trying to make up time to get to a refueling point. They needed gas. All of that was planned but they were short on time. They cut a corner, changed course. They don't exactly realize, apparently, according to these initial indications, where they are. They lose track of their position and they are having engine trouble and they find themselves surrounded by Iranian troops. They drifted within three miles of Iran's Farsi Island. That's when Iranian forces came out and took them into custody. So it's a series of decisions that apparently did not work out for these sailors losing track of where they were at sea.

BROWN: Losing sight of their surroundings. Is this being looked at though as an error in judgment on these sailors' behalf?

STARR: There's an investigation going on and as they complete the debriefings, they are going to look at what happened, what they can learn from it. Nobody is prepared to say anything yet about any accountability. It was Lieutenant David Nartker -- we know his name -- the Navy lieutenant who spoke on camera. And the sailors have also told their debriefers, including Lieutenant Nartker, apparently, that they were, indeed, told when they appeared on this camera on Iranian TV they were told by the Iranians to act happy. The Iranians wanted to show the world Navy sailors looking happy, so we now know for a fact that they were under some duress. This was not something that it they chose to do openly.

BROWN: Very interesting.

Barbara Starr, thank you for that great reporting.

Turning to Sean Penn. Is he in fear for his life? Why the actor says he's at risk in his first interview since the el Chapo capture and his secret meeting. That's ahead.

But first, next week CNN's anchors are taking a look back at who changed their lives the most. Here's a sneak peek.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: My son helped make me change.

(LAUGHTER)

ANNOUNCER: These people changed lives.

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: Can you believe we're back here?

ANNOUNCER: Join the familiar faces of CNN as they share their special someone with you.

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: The voyage that your suggestion sent me on. WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I learn this from you. You have to ask

important questions on the most important issues of the day.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Without my mom, I am certain I would not be where I am.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: If you were to ask how important as a mentor, not that important, it probably means they never had a great mentor.

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: We found it.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Very few people who tell you the truth. You do that.

ANNOUNCER: "The Person Who Changed My Life," a week-long CNN event starts Sunday on CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:57:18] BROWN: As cereal sales have slipped in recent years, breakfast giants are making major changes to America's most important meal of the day.

"CNN Money's" Cristina Alesci has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cereal, America's go-to breakfast food for decades. Who doesn't have memories of slurping down colored cereal? But the liquid rainbow in your bowl is a sign of just how much cereal has morphed from its wholesome roots and the industry is paying for it.

Sales are slipping and now companies are cutting sugar and replacing artificial colors. But are these changes making cereal any less processed or any more healthy?

That question led me to a high-security test kitchen in Minneapolis, tasting the cereal that only a few people have eaten.

(CROSSTALK)

ALESCI (on camera): Put the bowl in my hand.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want the bowl in your hand?

ALESCI (voice-over): This tiny kitchen is where a multibillion dollar business experiments with cereal.

(on camera): I don't taste a difference.

ALESCI: Kate Gallagher is on a team that is reengineering Trix. Colors will come from natural sources, carrots and radishes for red, blueberries for purple.

KATE GALLAGHER, TEST KITCHEN EMPLOYEE: What's missing from this is blue and green. We haven't been able to solve that yet. It didn't deliver the vibrant color.

ALESCI: It's taken years to develop the new recipe, but why go through all that trouble?

GALLAGHER: We had to start a number of years ago starting to hearing from consumers that they didn't like the ingredients.

ALESCI (on camera): Artificial colors, what does the research show?

UNIDENTIFIED PHYSICIAN: There have been some good studies that show a small but significant effect of artificial colors on behavior and cognitive function.

ALESCI (voice-over): And now after decades of research about possible harm, some consumers have are decided they don't want anything artificial in their food.

UNIDENTIFIED PHYSICIAN: Consequently, a demand has arisen for dye- free foods.

ALESCI: Many cereals marketed to children contain high amounts of artificial colors according to a 2014 study.

In 2010, the E.U. slapped warning labels on products with certain artificial colors when research linked them to hyperactivity in kids. The year after, the FDA set up a committee to look at the same issue. The agency said there wasn't enough evidence to link color to behavioral problems, but more research needed to be done.

But critics say there hasn't been any significant research in almost a decade.

(on camera): Why does the industry continue to use artificial and natural colors?

UNIDENTIFIED PHYSICIAN: That's a great question. The coloring has no value other than cosmetic. It's only to make the food look better. And the problem is there's one company --