Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

New Video Released of ""El Chapo" Raid"; Stand Against Hate. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired January 11, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:29:49] RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICA CORRESPONDENT: This is the actual operation by the actual operation by the Mexican navy. What you heard at the beginning is the actual shootout in which five of "El Chapo's" associates were shot and killed. Later you hear one of the Mexican soldiers say, "They got me, they got me." That was the only injury that they got.

And then moments later, towards the end of the video, Carol, you hear the soldiers saying, "Let the grenades loose." And they start launching grenades into the adjacent rooms in the house.

It's a two-story house. And it's a 15-minute video but we can only show you about 30 seconds of it. In it you see the soldiers going room by room, essentially clearing the house. By then "El Chapo" had already escaped through a manhole -- Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHRO: So, they threw grenades at the house. They went in with that heavy firepower. And I would assume dozens of Mexican agents, and "El Chapo" still managed to escape the house?

ROMO: That's right. Apparently he had a number of his hitmen receiving the Mexican soldiers while he was escaping through the back of the house. He got into the sewer system of the city of Los Mochis and was able to come to the surface. And then stole a car but was later detained and arrested by Mexican Federal police.

The video shows other parts of the house where you can see the soldiers going into closets, under beds. They were looking everywhere they could. And the fire fight, as you can see in this video, is quite intense.

There are also other people in the house, a woman among them, who surrendered to the soldiers and part of the group of six people who were eventually arrested by Mexican authorities -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. While we're watching this again, I want to bring in Joe Giacalone, he's a former NYPD detective. And I want you both to kind of parse this out for us.

Did we show our allotted 30 seconds -- Scottie? Ok. We're going to show that again.

So Joe, I assume that the shaking -- this is a body camera that's shooting as somebody is running. But look at this heavy firepower. What kind of guns are they using -- Joe?

JOSEPH GIACALONE, FORMER NYPD DETECTITVE: They have automatic weapons. I mean this guys knows no expense was going to be spared. He probably has rocket launchers and you name it. I mean he's the biggest drug dealer in the world and he's going to have the best defense that money can buy.

COSTELLO: The fact that they threw grenades, does that surprise you?

GIACALONE: No. I think they were going to do anything. I mean I'm surprised that the gun fight only lasted with only five of his people getting killed. I figured that this would be a blood bath of like epic proportions because I mean they're trying to get their boss to safety so he could live another day and, you know, sell his drugs.

COSTELLO: Is there any way to know, Rafael, how many armed people were guarding "El Chapo"?

ROMO: Well, we know there were at least five who were injured, and then they arrested six others. In the video, and I watched the whole thing, you can hear the soldiers saying, there's one, there's another one, who has fled already.

And one very important piece of information I want to relate, Carol, is that the video was recorded on -- from a helmet camera. And the one wearing the helmet, this commander of the whole operation, so you get to hear the moment where he says, go, go, go, or stop, or be careful on your right, be careful on your left, because there's a lot of moving parts.

And remember, this is 4:30 in the morning. It's completely dark. And this is a very tricky house with a very interesting layout. So the danger was there everywhere. But again "El Chapo" at that very moment was escaping from the Mexican soldiers.

COSTELLO: Ok. So, this was carried out by the Mexican marines, is that right? That's the most trusted security force in Mexico.

ROMO: Yes, that's right. So the way this works in Mexico, law enforcement, when it comes to major cartels, is entrusted in the hands of the Mexican navy because it's seen as the only government institution that is independent enough and trustworthy enough, not corruptible as the federal police would be, that they can carry out these kinds of operations.

As a matter of fact, typically, they don't have any sort of communication with any other Mexican security agencies, precisely for that purpose. This particular group, without really knowing, appears to be one of those elite forces that the Mexican navy has that continually train for operations such as these. They coordinate training with American forces and they have cooperated with the United States in the past.

So, I would not be surprised if some, if not all of these soldiers, were trained by Americans -- Carol. COSTELLO: All right. I leave it there. Rafael Romo, Joseph

Giacalone -- thanks to you both.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM: stand against hate. That's the message Democratic lawmakers are sending to their colleagues ahead of the President's final State of the Union.

[10:35:00] Why some members say they're inviting Muslim-Americans as their guests for the big night.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:39:18] COSTELLO: President Obama has invited a Syrian refugee to sit in his box with the first lady at tomorrow night's State of the Union. This man fled Syria's civil war in 2013 after his home was destroyed by a bomb, killing his wife, daughter and five other relatives. Last month he arrived in Detroit and now he's headed to Capitol Hill.

Other Democrats are following suit, encouraging lawmakers to bring Muslims as guests to the State of the Union. Now, the idea to invite a Muslim to the State of the Union is a way to counter an idea championed by Donald Trump and embraced by white nationalists, that is, a temporary ban on Muslim immigrants.

Listen to this robo-call that's been going around in Iowa. It was generated by a Super PAC supporting Trump, although Mr. Trump did not authorize the message.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JARED TAYLOR, AMERICAN RENAISSANCE: I'm Jared Taylor with American Renaissance. I urge you to vote for Donald Trump because he's the one candidate who points out that we should accept immigrants who are good for America. We don't need Muslims. We need smart, well-educated white people who will assimilate to our culture. Vote Trump.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

COSTELLO: That message sans Trump is resonating in Germany, too, where thousands are protesting against immigrants after a series of New Year's Eve sexual assaults. Police in Cologne have now identified 19d suspects and arrested four people in those attacks. Most of the suspects were from Morocco and Algeria.

With me now to talk about this, CNN political contributor and "New York Times" columnist, Ross Douthat; and I'm also joined by CNN political commentator and conservative radio host Ben Ferguson. Welcome to you both.

ROSS DOUTHAT, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Ben -- let's first dispense with this robo call. Some Iowans told talking points memo they've never experienced anything quite like this. What's driving it?

FERGUSON: Yes. Well, you have white supremacists that are scum of the earth that want to become relevant and tried to get some free publicity. And this is the perfect way to do it is come out and support it with someone leading in the polls even though obviously I'm sure Donald Trump does not want this endorsement.

I think Donald Trump has to be very careful on this, when they come out and condemn this immediately and say he wants nothing to do with these supremacists and they can pretty much go to wherever he wants to put it. He's colorful with words. This should be an easy one for him to hit out of the ballpark.

And if he doesn't do that, then that's his own fault for not doing it. But I think you'll probably see something pretty tough from his campaign. Certainly they should.

One thing in politics is you cannot control who endorses you outside of your own meetings. Anyone can come out and endorse Hillary or Bernie or Trump and it can hurt you if you don't deal it with the right way. These supremacists see an opportunity here to get their name out there, maybe find some new crazy nut job members and they should be condemned by everyone in politics when they come out.

COSTELLO: Ross, do you think Donald Trump will speak out strongly against this group?

DOUTHAT: I think that's actually a really good question. I think Trump, as we've seen throughout the campaign, is, you know, his whole style is whenever he does something that's politically incorrect or offensive that the media says, well, Trump has to apologize and then he often doesn't or sort of half-heartedly apologizes or pretends he didn't really say it or didn't really mean it. That's been his style all along.

As Ben says, this is a different kind of instance. Trump isn't doing this and from the beginning because he's had such a sort of fiercely anti-immigration campaign message, white nationalists have -- they've been latching onto Trump since last summer. This is just the most sort of visible example.

And I do think it would be smart for him to condemn them and distance himself from them. I think given what we've seen from the Trump campaign to date, you can't be confident that that's what will actually happen.

COSTELLO: Ross, I want to touch on Germany for just a second because You wrote an interesting op-ed in the "New York Times" titled "Germany on the brink" and you write of Germany's open door policy. Quote, "It threatens not just a spike in terrorism but a rebirth of 1930s style political violence." You go on to say that "Angela Merkel must go". Moscow. Please explain.

DOUTHAT: Sure. I think that basically what's happened in Germany over the last year and a half is potentially disastrous for the long-term future of the country. I think that -- and it's important to note that this is -- Germany is in a very different position than the United States regarding refugees and migrants and so on. Whatever you think about the wisdom of taking Syrian refugees in the U.S., the numbers here that we're talking about, tens of thousands and so on, are very small and unlikely to have any effect for good or ill on the country.

In Germany -- Germany has taken in more than a million migrants over the last year or so. A large percentage of them are young, late teenage and early 20-something men. So you have a highly-skewed demographic ratio. And it's entirely possible that if this continues, you'll have a deep transformation of Germany's entire society over the next 10 or 15 or 20 years.

Basically, you have a situation where you could imagine half of the German population under the age of 40 being immigrants, children of immigrants and so on, within 20, 30 years.

And I think that you can already see what's happening in Europe. This is unlikely to be politically stable. It's empowering Europe's version of -- you know, you talk about the white nationalists making robo-calls for Trump. Europe actually has political parties with roots in fascism that are gaining at the polls in countries like Denmark, and Sweden, and France, and so on. This is only likely to continue if this kind of -- if this level of immigration continues. It's very unlikely that Europe can sustain this kind of influx.

[10:45:02] COSTELLO: Ben?

FERGUSON: Angela Merkel, what she did was put the national security of her country at risk for personal, political gain. She thought it was going to be a good political move to say, we're a welcoming country, come on in. They were not checking who was coming in.

And if you want to help people, the last people on the list should be men ages 18, 19, 20, 21. They should have been helping seniors and children, specifically women. They didn't do a good job of policing this.

Now you see the people in Germany who are genuinely terrified by what happened on New Year's and other attacks that have happened. I think this only plays into the political conversation we're having in this country now. When Donald Trump says, we don't know who these people are we're letting in, you can't really background check them, we don't really know what their motives are.

Germany is a year ahead of us right now and it's pretty obvious that they got duped. A lot of people lied to get into that country and they were wrong.

COSTELLO: Well -- and I like you to reiterate once again, Ross -- that the United States never intended to allow a million immigrants or migrants come into the United States.

DOUTHAT: No. And the U.S. is just in a very -- I mean more in it's completely different geographic position. You know, I mean what Germany is facing -- and it's obviously an incredibly different challenge. You have people crossing the Mediterranean in boats, coming in through Greece and Italy, so on, who are trying to get to Germany. There are land passages that take them there.

And the ability to screen refugees at that scale, it's just much more difficult to do than it would be for the U.S. So, I think it's totally reasonable to say the U.S. should take a few more Syrian refugees, while also looking at Germany and saying, what's happening over there is a slow motion disaster, basically.

COSTELLO: All right. I have I to leave it there. Ross Douthat, Ben Ferguson -- thanks to both of you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a CNN exclusive. He claims to be an American citizen; North Korea says he's a spy. His first CNN interview -- next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:51:10] COSTELLO: North Korea says it has arrested an American citizen on spying charges. CNN team in Pyongyang spoke exclusively live with that man who claims he stole nuclear and military secrets. But details are murky at best. CNN's Will Ripley joins us live now from North Korea. Hi -- Will.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. CNN's nuclear test last week certainly got the attention of the United States when they flew a B-52 bomber very close to the North Korean border over the weekend. Now it appears North Korea once again is trying to get the attention of Washington by announcing to us and to the world a case that nobody knew about. A purported American citizen held prisoner here.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RIPLEY: Days after North Korea's nuclear test shocked the world, a new diplomatic bombshell. Kim Dong Cho says he's an American citizen who used to live in Fairfax, Virginia. North Korea calls him a spy accused of stealing nuclear and military secrets.

Pyongyang authorities order Kim to speak to us in Korean. He seems aware our conversation is likely being listened to. "I committed an act of espionage against North Korea," he says. I gathered information about its nuclear program and military facilities."

Kim says North Korean agents arrested him three months ago, seizing a U.S. B-drive, camera and documents with details of North Korea's nuclear program. CNN cannot determine whether Kim is making his statements under duress. He says he was not spying for the United States but for South Korean conservative elements with the goal of undermining North Korea's leader Kim Jong-Un's regime.

The South Korean government calls the claims, groundless

RIPLEY: How did it work? How did you pass on the information you collected?

"I bribed a local resident, an ex-soldier with military access," he says. He handed over information. I hid it in my car and secretly brought it to China. Kim says he drove back and forth from China every day.

As president of a company that operates in Razone (ph), a special economic zone where foreign-owned businesses operate just inside North Korea. The businesses help the cash-strapped regime make money to pay for things like its nuclear program.

KIM DONG CHUL, PURPORTED AMERICAN DETAINEE: It's time for the U.S. government to withdraw its hostile policy against North Korea, Kim says, using the same language often found in Pyongyang propaganda. We're allowed to photograph Kim's American passport. He says he was born in South Korea, but became a U.S. citizen almost 30 years ago. So far the state department has refused to comment or even confirm his U.S. citizenship telling CNN, quote, speaking publicly about specific purported cases of detained Americans can complicate our tireless efforts to secure their freedom. I'm asking the U.S. Or South Korean government to rescue me, Kim says. Neither country has diplomatic relations with North Korea. For now, this professed U.S. Citizen is detained. No trial date, no idea if he'll ever see his family or country again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RIPLEY: The State Department wouldn't comment to CNN but we know that they did contact the Swedish embassy asking them to look into this case after we gave them a call asking about this whole situation. So, it really does appear that the United States government was not aware that this man, who holds an American passport, was being held here. You may ask why now would North Korea put him before cameras around the world, at least on CNN?

Carol, the answer is, frankly, leverage. The nuclear test and holding purported U.S. citizen is one more bargaining chip as the regime believes that they can hold to get U.S. citizens to talk to them about lifting sanctions and normalizing relations.

[10:54:54] COSTELLO: Will Ripley reporting live from inside North Korea. I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Checking some top stories for you at 59 minutes past. Four teens are in police custody and a fifth is still at large this morning after police say the teenager gang-raped an 18-year-old woman at a Brooklyn playground. Teens ages 14 to 17 reportedly approached the woman and her father around 9:00 last week; police say one of the five teens pulled a gun and demanded the father leave. Then each of the suspects raped the woman. The father returned with two officers but by then, the group had fled.

Police want to know who killed an American artist living in Florence, Italy. They say 35-year-old Ashley Olsen was found on Saturday in her apartment. According to Italian media, she had been strangled. Her boyfriend, who's also an artist, reportedly found her body. He said he hadn't heard from Olsen so he got her landlord to go with him to check on her. So far, police say they don't have any suspects.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"AT THIS HOUR" with Berman and Bolduan starts now.