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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Gunman Fire on Philly Cop; Iraq Refugees Charged with Terror; Report: Chicago Police Intimidated Witnesses. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired January 8, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Great to see you. Thank you so much.

And thank you all so much for joining us "AT THIS HOUR." Quite a week.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, I'll tell you. LEGAL VIEW with Ashleigh Banfield starts now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

We've got breaking news this hour and it's coming to us from Philadelphia where someone pulled the trigger 13 times, facing a police car, and effectively trying to execute the officer inside and trying several times. The officer is alive, but we can report that he's badly hurt. We've just received surveillance images of the scene of this shooting, and it is harrowing. Take a look. You can see the man's arm actually inside the open window of that police cruiser that was at an intersection.

Philadelphia's police commissioner says he has seen the video of this shooting and he calls this an execution attempt. And he says it is one of the scariest things that he has ever seen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OFFICER: Shots still - shots fired. (INAUDIBLE). I'm shot. I'm bleeding heavily. (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

DISPATCHER: All cars standby, we have an officer shot 6-0 and Spruce. Repeating in the 18th district, assisting officer 6-0 and Spruce, we have an officer down.

OFFICER: I'm bleeding. Get us another unit out here. 6-0 and Spruce. Please send me some units to 6-0 and Irving. (INAUDIBLE) weapon out here.

DISPATCH: Sir, we have officers in route to you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: A chilling emergency call from that officer after being shot. Here is what we know about his condition right now. He is alive. He has had to undergo surgery. And we are told that he got off one of his shots, at least one of them, actually at the gunman, hitting him. That suspect now has been arrested.

CNN's Jason Carroll is live on this story out of New York. Cedric Alexander is our law enforcement analyst and former chief of police.

First of all, Jason Carroll, get me up to date on as many details as you have at this very early stage.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And, Ashleigh, there certainly are a number of details coming in. First, I want to show that image from the surveillance camera that shows the very chilling ambush that took place on the streets of Philadelphia last night. There is the image there. And you can see the suspect as he approached the car. Actually, at one point, gets his hand, gets his arm inside that patrol car being driven by Officer Jesse Hartnett.

Jesse Hartnett driving his patrol car on about 11:40 on the streets of Philadelphia last night when the suspect that you see there flagged him down, approached the car, and as police say, ambushed Officer Jesse Hartnett, firing some 13 times, hitting Officer Hartnett several times, shooting him in the arm.

Here's what's amazing about this. Despite all of that, Officer Hartnett was able to fire back, shooting the suspect at least three times we are told. As you know, Officer Hartnett did survive the shoot. Late last night both the city's police commissioner and the mayor spoke out about the attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JIM KENNEY, PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA: We're just happy he's alive. And there are too many guns - too many guns on our streets. And I think our national government needs to do something about this.

COMMISSIONER RICHARD ROSS, PHILADELPHIA POLICE: This is a dangerous, dangerous job and everybody who takes it knows that. But when you see something like this, and it's - I guess it's even more scary when you think about the times we're in. It's just a very serious reminder of what these men and women have to deal with each and every day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Officer Hartnett now in stable condition, we are told. He has a broken arm, severe nerve damage as well, but he is expected to make a full recovery. As for that suspect, Ashleigh, he, at this point, is in custody. Police investigating the - what the official motive for this attack was. The governor calling it an act that was - that was horrifying, has no business on the streets of Philadelphia. You see there looking at the image, you can see how lucky this officer is to be alive.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Hard to make out what this - what this suspect is wearing, but I do want to know, Jason, since the FBI is heavily involved in this case, albeit the Philly police are the lead agency, the FBI is in on this as well.

CARROLL: Right.

BANFIELD: Are they looking at terror. Are they heading towards something that we've seen before? Either some kind of markings or announcements or pronouncements that might be on the person or in their social media, because this is the M.O. that we've been seeing sadly from people who want to do harm in America.

CARROLL: Well, I think what's going to be happening is, investigators are going to be looking at all angles. Of course, here in New York City, when you think of officers being ambushed, you're reminded of what happened back in 2014 when two officers on patrol in Brooklyn were ambushed by a man coming up from Baltimore. He had an ax to grind.

In terms of the official motive at this point, we are expecting a 1:00 p.m. press conference. That's going to be happening just about an hour from now. Perhaps at that point we'll get the official motive and what was behind - what was in the mind of this suspect as he approached the car.

[12:05:06] BANFIELD: All right, Jason, standby for a moment.

Cedric Alexander, I'd like to get your perspective on this as well. I mean, look, we have very little information at this time, but you don't have to be a, you know, a rocket scientist to see this kind of behavior, to see this kind of assassination attempt as the chief said. And Richard Ross gave those comments earlier, the Philadelphia police commissioner. I want to know what's happening right now. Are they going into overdrive, not only his team in Philadelphia, but in coordination with the feds to figure out exactly what this person's M.O. was and if he had any help?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, good afternoon, Ashleigh, and let me first start by saying, our hearts and prayers across the law enforcement community, across this country, and at every level - at every level goes out to the quick recovery for Officer Hartnett.

What you saw through and what we just heard through that radio transmission, it's absolutely chilling. That was just a straight up assassination attempt. It's nothing short of that. and we're very thankful that that officer was able to survive.

What you're going to see over the next number of days is a close collaborate work between local police and federal officials as well too in identifying the persons - other persons that may have been involved in pursuing this case to no end. We live in a very, very different time in this country, as we all well know, and it's going to be important to find out, what was the - where this threat came from, what was the reason for the initiation of this threat, whether it was domestic or foreign in nature. I think we're going to know pretty much over the next several days where this all began for us.

BANFIELD: And then, of course, the cooperation aspect of it, if it does, in fact, Cedric, lead to other potential investigative, you know, roots.

ALEXANDER: Absolutely.

BANFIELD: I'm assuming that there is great coordination between these agencies.

ALEXANDER: Absolutely. No doubt about it. Were begin to see this much too often in this country and I put a precaution to all police officers that are out there who are doing a heroic job every day, such as Officer Hartnett, who was just doing his job, patrolling his - his beat, his precinct. And to hear him cry for help after being attacked and the fact that he was bleeding profusely, that is so chilling for all of us to hear that because he's out there to protect that community. And you have officers across this great country who are out there doing that same job as well every day, too. So what I would encourage from the community at large across the country is that we work and stay in close collaboration with our local police and be partnered with them so we want to make sure that it - it all works for everyone.

BANFIELD: Cedric Alexander, thank you for your perspective. Jason Carroll, thank you as well. I know you're working your sources. So we'll get back to you when you have additional news on this breaking story.

I also want to let our viewers know that coming up in the next hour here on CNN, Philadelphia police commissioner, we - we just mentioned, we just saw him, Richard Ross, he was speaking about this in its early stages, he's going to hold a live news conference with brand new information about this shooting, this execution-style shooting of Officer Jesse Hartnett.

And we've got more breaking news as well on the homeland security front. We're now learning more about two refugees who were arrested and charged yesterday on terror-related charges. Both of them Palestinian. Both of them born in Iraq. One of them in Texas, the other in California. Both of them now accused of lying to immigration officials about whether they had terrorism ties. Specifically, ISIS ties.

I want to get right to Pamela Brown, our justice correspondent. And Bob Baer is also with us, our CIA operative and intelligence and security analyst.

So, Pamela, it looks like they're - they're each facing charges ranging from materiel support to terror, to making false statements. And not only that, but also to - to trying to immigrate to this country under false pretense. These are very serious charges, but walk me through how they found these guys.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. So these are two men, 24-year-old Omar al Hardan from Houston, 32-year-old Aws Mohammed al-Jayab of Sacramento. They had been living in the U.S. as refugees, as you pointed out. They both communicated about linking up with terrorists in Syria, according to a law enforcement official. A lot of the evidence in this case coming from their social media activity. Both of these men are from Iraq, and one of them, the man from

Sacramento, actually immigrated to the U.S. from Syria. The other had become a lawful, permanent resident in 2011. And as you mentioned, they're both accused of lying to immigration officials about their alleged ties to terrorist organizations. Al-Jayab, from Sacramento, allegedly traveled to Syria to fight alongside a terrorist group that later joined ISIS. The other, al Hardan, is charged with attempting to provide materiel support to ISIS. He's the one that became a lawful, permanent resident. And according to this criminal complaint, the two me were in connection with each other. They discussed things like weapons training in Syria. Al-Jayab allegedly offered to teach al Hardan on how to use guns while in Syria.

And these arrests, of course, come amid a heated debate about whether refugee screening in the U.S. is sufficient. Both men are scheduled to appear in court today, Ashleigh.

[12:10:04] BANFIELD: And those are charges that will get you up to 20 years, too, the materiel support. So if, you know, one of them -

BROWN: That's right, and eight years for lying to immigration officials.

BANFIELD: Yes. And I - look, I'm only seeing a really early list here, but if that one who's just charged with the making false statements gets the materiel support charge, he goes from eight up to the 20 maximum.

BROWN: Twenty, yes.

BANFIELD: So these are very, very serious charges.

Pamela, stand by for a moment, if you will.

Bob Baer, jump in with me because, look, all I've been seeing this week are stories about terrorists who are overseas, who are here, there's connections in Paris that are being released today. And then we get these stories about two refugees living here in America, connected in two varying states. Then there are also stories that it's possible, who knows at this point, what happens in Philly could have a terror connection. We don't know that yet. And then these stories from three different countries right now, in Europe, about refugees who have caused serious problems, upwards of rape in that country. Conservatives have been saying this over and over again, you invite refugees, you invite problems. Is there a different perspective to this?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I don't like to agree with the conservative, but we do have a problem. These two refugees that have just been arrested, in Houston and Stockton, that's the tip of the iceberg. I'm in touch with law enforcement and they say there are hundreds and hundreds of these people in the United States. They have suspect loyalties. They're looking for one overt act before they run them in, whether it's in communications, whether it's weapon training, whether it's materiel support to terrorism, plans to go to Syria, that's the problem the FBI has. But they are really quite worried about refugees. And this is not being driven by politics, it's just fact. You look at the New Year's Eve attacks in Colon (ph), when - when the Germans lost control of a major part of a city, an important city by - you know, a lot of those people were refugees. So I think this will get worse as more refugees come. And the worst parts of the world they come from, the more dangerous they'll be. They'll be used to using weapons. They'll be used - they're be used to violence.

BANFIELD: And, Bob, I'm going to add Sweden as well and Finland. Those were late breaking reports this morning as well to CNN that there are similar New Year Eve molestation and assault - sex assault cases from groups of men who surrounded women, and several of them are being targeted as - as refugees and migrants as well. So this is fodder for this conversation, rightly or wrongly.

The question I have for you, though, is when you have two guys like this, the one from Texas, the one from California, one of them is not charged with materiel support, but that is a unique kind of charge. And we hear a lot about it now. Your own person can be materiel support. What do you have to do with that person in order to warrant - to warrant that kind of a charge and get those penalties up to the 20- year mark?

BAER: Well, I mean, you have to take one overt act, as I understand. But what we're seeing here is a more aggressive FBI. And this is almost I'd call it preventive detention. They simply cannot sit around and wait for these guys to go out and buy a gun and head toward the target before they act, because they'll miss them, like in San Bernardino.

And since San Bernardino, the rules have been loosened up to go after these people, and they should be, because there's so many of them, and you really can't get inside of their heads. And trying to get sources inside these groups is very difficult. These people are true believers and they're unlikely to become informants for the FBI. So that makes their job doubly difficult. And so hauling these guys in, throwing the book at them, there's no choice.

BANFIELD: All right, Bob Baer, thank you for your perspective. Pamela Brown, also, thank you for your reporting on this. Great sources, Pamela, keep working them for us.

Sadly, I'm not over this terrorism story. I've got other reports for you. Today is a preliminary hearing day for the man that the federal authorities say wanted to kill people here in the U.S. on New Year's Eve all in the name of ISIS. This is the man we're talking about, Emanuel Lutchman. He is 25 years old. He's from Rochester, New York. And he was arriving in these pictures in federal court today. His charges, once again you keep hearing this over and over, attempting to provide materiel support to ISIS. Investigators say that he was in contact with a man overseas who claimed to be with ISIS, and that he bought weapons and disguises with plans to kill people here in the U.S. who were simply out celebrating New Year's Eve in upstate New York. The headlines keep coming, folk. Overseas in Belgium. I made a

reference to this earlier. Here are the details. Folks in Belgium are uncovering new evidence linked to last year's Paris terror attacks. Officials say the fingerprint attack of suspect Salah Abdeslam has been found inside a Brussels apartment that was raided. And also found in that apartment, explosives, bomb-making material and three suicide vests. According to one prosecutor, that apartment was rented under a false identity that may have been used by a person who is already in custody. Abdeslam still on the loose, still a man of great importance to police.

[12:15:02] Coming up next, allegations that Chicago police pressured witnesses to the Laquan McDonald shooting. Pressured them to change the stories of what they saw so that their stories would match the official account. How different were those stories? You may not believe it. I'm up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: More than 14 months after a Chicago teenager was repeatedly shot by a police officer, now charged with murder, and six weeks after the city released the video supporting that charge, we are still learning some pretty explosive details about the death of Laquan McDonald, included in thousands of e-mails to and from officials and lawyers and mayoral aids that city hall released on New Year's Eve. Among all those e-mails are some pretty serious allegations, unproven as yet, that witnesses to Laquan McDonald's shooting were coerced by the police, and that their sworn statements were actually completely changed when they refused to change to what the cops wanted them to say.

CNN's Rosa Flores has been digging through those e-mails for a week now. And I'm also joined by CNN legal analyst Danny Cevallos.

So, Rosa, I just want to turn this over to you because I think it - it's just - there's so much information to get through, but effectively what did we find out?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, these allegations surfaced from these 3,000 pages of e-mails that CNN requested through the Freedom of Information Act. And so we see conversations between city attorneys and family attorneys during the negotiation of the settlement. And this was early last year. And so the Laquan McDonald family estate attorneys allege in these e-mails that police officers threatened witnesses and asked them to change their account.

[12:20:17] So let me get you up to speed here. They allege that three witnesses, three people who witnessed this officer-involved shooting, were taken to the police station, they were held against their will, they were interrogated, one of them for up to six hours. And this individual saying that she was only released after she asked for an attorney.

And now, hear this. If their accounts would have been included in the police reports, one of them would have said that she said that she would have - she was saying, stop shooting, stop shooting while she was witnessing the officer-involved shooting. And then another account from a truck driver that said he, quote, "saw an execution."

Now, we've gone through the police reports as well. Hundreds of pages of police reports and detective note, and we've reported on this before, Ashleigh, all of the witness accounts, all of the police officer accounts, jive with the story of Jason van Dyke, that's the officer who shot and killed Laquan McDonald.

Now, the Laquan McDonald estate attorneys are not calling this a cover-up, but one of the big questions is, how high did this go? We asked them. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFFREY NESLUND, ATTORNEY FOR LAQUAN MCDONALD ESTATE: Right. Well, there were at least three eyewitnesses that were in the drive-through of the Burger King that were taken to a police station, separated, put in different rooms and interviewed by police, detectives, sergeants, lieutenant. And we were able to speak with two of these witnesses and told us that without question what they saw was - was an execution, was an unnecessary illegal shooting, and that the people interviewing them just didn't want to hear that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now, that attorney also said that he's been in contact with these witnesses. That these witnesses tell him that they testified before a federal grand jury. We know that a federal investigation is going on. But we have to make one thing very, very clear, and that is that Jason van Dyke is the one that is - that was charged with first- degree murder. He pleaded not guilty. But no other police officer has been charged in this case.

Now, we did receive a statement from the city of Chicago early this morning, and I'm going to read that to you. It says, "the police actions surrounding this shooting are under investigation by the U.S. Department of Justice for possible criminal charges and by the city inspector general for possible disciplinary action. The public deserves answers to a number of important questions in this case, and we eagerly awaiting the findings of those investigations."

And, Ashleigh, I should add that we have requested, CNN has requested an interview with the mayor of the city, and we have not received a response.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, well, let us know when you do hear.

Rosa, standby, if you will please.

Danny Cevallos, I want to bring you into this conversation. As I look through some of this material, I find it a little troubling to say the least that what the police department got out of the witnesses, the actual statements, were not actually entered into the record until after about five months. So the shooting happens, about five months later the witness accounts are actually entered into the record, and, interestingly, that's nine days after those attorneys for Laquan McDonald's estate asked for them. This is your area. Does that sound fishy?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Criminal defense attorneys will tell you probably that there are two kinds of cover-ups. One is an intentional cover-up, where the - where a police or anybody actively, intentionally covers things up. But far more common, and perhaps far more insidious, is the subtle unconscious cover-up. Police investigating police have an unconscious bias in favor of their comrades. And it - what we call confirmation bias makes all of us see what we want to see. And consider this also, the - the investigative unit in Chicago is already overburdened. They lack enough resources to investigate all of these. And complete investigations within the six- month prescribed period. So that unconscious bias could potentially seep in. When you are asking people or interviewing them knowing that their answer could potentially harm your brother officer, is there that unconscious bias? And if there is one, it's far more common

BANFIELD: Even a six month window, Danny?

CEVALLOS: Yes?

BANFIELD: You just said the six-month window. So that five-months would be within the six month window, which would not be any kind of infraction.

CEVALLOS: There's no infraction.

BANFIELD: Right.

CEVALLOS: It's just a prescribed six month period that the DOJ recommends that these investigations are completed. But the reality is, when you hurry up an investigation, you may not get all the investigative materials in that you need if you have that artificial deadline. And if at the end of that six months there isn't enough in the file to support a sustained charge against an officer, then those are more likely to be dismissed.

[12:25:10] BANFIELD: OK.

CEVALLOS: So defense attorneys have long complained there is a subtle bias when police investigate fellow police. It may not be intentional. It just may be unconscious, which may be more dangerous.

BANFIELD: Well, I can also understand that police are really in the spotlight and there may be some real concern that they get it right before they put it in the record. That's the benefit of the doubt, like we like to give to everybody.

Rosa Flores, thank you. Danny Cevallos, this story continues. Thank you very much to both of you.

Coming up, Erin Brockovich, you know her, you've seen her and she's got something to say. Something like the BP oil spill, well, if you thought that was bad, we've got one of those going on on land right now. She's going to join me next to talk about an invisible but massive methane leak. It has been gushing and gushing for weeks. The officials say it's harmless, so why are people still getting so sick. Erin's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: A state of emergency in California over a gas leak you cannot see. But here's some video you can see. It was taken by the Environmental Defense Fund, and it shows you what has been spewing by the tens of thousands of pounds per hour over Porter Ranch, California. People living in the area, they couldn't see it, but they sure could smell it. To see it you've got to use infrared video. It's really quite something. The thermal imaging shows you exactly what's going on. The stink, like rotten eggs. And it was noticed because it's a natural gas leak.

[12:30:02] It was first detected back in October, but this could take until March to actually stop. Families have been reporting profuse nose bleeds and headaches and nausea and respiratory problems and they've had to